Princes Nikolai, Felix, Henrik & Princess Athena, News Part 2: July 2018 - 2022


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Well, Mr. Mbruno to be safe I looked it up.
Komtesse, comtesse does indeed mean countess - in French.

A komtesse is the unmarried daughter of a count, while a grevinde is married to a count (i.e. she has married to the title) or a countess in her own right (i.e. she is the bearer of the title, just like Countess Alexandra.)
Very unfairly the sons of a count are automatically counts, while a daughter has to be made a countess in her own right to inherit the title.

The same thing applies to barons.

Once a komtesse marries she gets the title of her husband if he has one. If not she becomes mrs XX.

The Germans are much more interesting when it comes to titles and I suggest you study the hierarchy there in order to really understand how the system works.
They start with Baron, Freiherr, Pfalzgraf, Markgraf (Marquis), Graf (count), Landgraf, Reichgraf, Herzog (Duke), Grossherzog, Erzherzog, Fürst, Prinz, Kurfürst, König (King), Kaizer (Emperor.)

Here is a site listing the various titles in order of rank, with the various titles in Danish, German, English, French - and other languages as well. As well as an explanation of the differences between the various titles. Albeit in Danish.
That's a good beginning.
https://www.lundskov.dk/kongehus/textfil/info-fyrste.php

For example Benedikte married a Prinz.

In German context I believe PH would have been titled Freiherr.

Thanks, I stand corrected then in the sense that both wives of counts and a person who is made a countess in her own right are a “ grevinde” and only the unmarried daughter of a count is a “komtesse”.
 
I agree with both of you.

One of the problems for Nikolai is that his modelling career is intertwined with who he is, rather than perhaps his looks and talent as a model. (I won't be the judge of that.)
In other words that he earns his living as model, because he is a Prince, and less because of what he is actually doing.
That can also be a problem is he works in a private company. At some point what whatever company he is employed in may do something that can be seen (especially if you want to!) as controversial. And ought a member of the DRF be associated with such a company?

So if Nikolai wish to remain a Prince I think the safest option for him would be somewhere deep in the state administration or the military.
The military is out it seems, so he can do an Elisabeth and vanish into a state office building somewhere. That should be pretty uncontroversial IMO.

Even if he got himself employed in Red Cross, that could at some point be controversial! Simply because relief organizations are also political.

Nikolai could choose to be educated and then work abroad, at least for a period of time. If he decided to, for example, go to school in the UK and then establish a career in the US he could do whatever he wanted. Of course he’d still benefit from being a part of a very well connected and privileged family but he wouldn’t stick out as much as he would in Denmark and he’d be able to build a career without the scrutiny he’d get at home.

I think minor royals can be in somewhat of a tough spot because, while part of what makes the idea of a royal family have enduring appeal with the public is the FAMILY aspect, the same public has no desire to support a large number of working royals. So you serve your purpose as a cute child and teenager contributing to the happy image of the family but once you’re an adult you’re seen as more of a potential burden and you need to watch your step.

The best thing for most royal families, IMO, would be to not only limit the number of working royals, but decrease the number of people in the family who are royal to start with. Much like how in some royal families only sons of the monarch can pass their royal status on to their children, except instead of sons I would say only the heir’s children are royal. So, for the current DRF only Christian’s future children should be Prince/Princess. The children of Christian’s siblings and cousins should either not be royal, (if the law can be changed), or not use the royal title, (if the law cannot be changed).
 
Nikolai could choose to be educated and then work abroad, at least for a period of time. If he decided to, for example, go to school in the UK and then establish a career in the US he could do whatever he wanted. Of course he’d still benefit from being a part of a very well connected and privileged family but he wouldn’t stick out as much as he would in Denmark and he’d be able to build a career without the scrutiny he’d get at home.

I think minor royals can be in somewhat of a tough spot because, while part of what makes the idea of a royal family have enduring appeal with the public is the FAMILY aspect, the same public has no desire to support a large number of working royals. So you serve your purpose as a cute child and teenager contributing to the happy image of the family but once you’re an adult you’re seen as more of a potential burden and you need to watch your step.

The best thing for most royal families, IMO, would be to not only limit the number of working royals, but decrease the number of people in the family who are royal to start with. Much like how in some royal families only sons of the monarch can pass their royal status on to their children, except instead of sons I would say only the heir’s children are royal. So, for the current DRF only Christian’s future children should be Prince/Princess. The children of Christian’s siblings and cousins should either not be royal, (if the law can be changed), or not use the royal title, (if the law cannot be changed).

I think you nailed it.

And yes, I think working abroad is a good option, as long as he doesn't get himself involved in something stupid. Out of sight, out of mind. - But of course that means a de facto exile.
 
No need to look down to Komtesses versus Grevindes. A Komtesse is actually maybe "better" than a Grevinde. After all, the last one usually is "just" the wife of a Greve, while a Komtesse is always a daughter of a Greve and therefore a born aristocrat lady by herself.

In Dutch and German we had the same difference in married and unmarried nobles. A jonker (junker in German) and a freule (junkfrau in German) were used to differentiate in marital status. Like a Komtesse is always the daughter of a Greve, a freule could never be anyone else than a noble's daughter.
 
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No need to look down to Komtesses versus Grevindes. A Komtesse is actually maybe "better" than a Grevinde. After all, the last one usually is "just" the wife of a Greve, while a Komtesse is always a daughter of a Greve and therefore a born aristocrat lady by herself.

In Dutch and German we had the same difference in married and unmarried nobles. A jonker (junker in German) and a freule (junkfrau in German) were used to differentiate in marital status. Like a Komtesse is always the daughter of a Greve, a freule could never be anyone else than a noble's daughter.


Sorry, but a "Jungfrau" is not a noble young lady, but any girl who hasn't had sex yet.. Or someone who astrologically is born in the sign of virgo (Jungfrau).


But it's true, we had that before we got rid of nobility 100 years ago but let the former title live as part of the name. Though normally women of noble name prefer the married version for their own name, not the former title for an unmarried noble woman. EG: not Baroness or Freiin but Baronin or Freifrau, not Komtess but Gräfin. Only the daughters of princes (Fürsten) stick to Prinzessin (Princess) while the daughters of dukes always used duchess even when unwed daughters.
 
Sorry, but a "Jungfrau" is not a noble young lady, but any girl who hasn't had sex yet.. Or someone who astrologically is born in the sign of virgo (Jungfrau).


But it's true, we had that before we got rid of nobility 100 years ago but let the former title live as part of the name. Though normally women of noble name prefer the married version for their own name, not the former title for an unmarried noble woman. EG: not Baroness or Freiin but Baronin or Freifrau, not Komtess but Gräfin. Only the daughters of princes (Fürsten) stick to Prinzessin (Princess) while the daughters of dukes always used duchess even when unwed daughters.


What you mean is a virgin...:whistling:?
I think Duc meant the female version of "Junker" - and I think it is not "Jungfrau", but "Junkfrau"...?!
 
What you mean is a virgin...:whistling:?
I think Duc meant the female version of "Junker" - and I think it is not "Jungfrau", but "Junkfrau"...?!


Originally "Junker" meant "unmarried young nobleman", according to the Duden, "Junkfrau" is not an official German word. The word "Junker" was used in a demeaning way in the former East parts of Prussia, so if the word was ever in use, it was demeaning to the noble lady.
 
Well, in DK at least in the early 1700s "jomfru" = jungfrau = maiden was a polite form of address to or about a young woman. Certainly among affluent farmers and merchants. Implying that she as a matter of course was assumed to be virtuous.
Whether that in higher society at the time was cringe worthy I don't know.
 
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Well, in DK at least in the early 1700s "jomfru" = jungfrau = maiden was a polite form of address to or about a young woman. Certainly among affluent farmers and merchants. Implying that she as a matter of course was assumed to be virtuous.
Whether that in higher society at the time was cringe worthy I don't know.
Same in Sweden up until early 1800s. Young unwed women were called jungfru or piga (which later came to be the word for maid). Unwed ladies of the merchant class were often called mamsell especially as they got on in years.

Regarding komtesse Sweden has the quite interesting custom that unwed daughters of titled noblemen are fröken (miss) and it's not until they marry another noble that they can start using their title if their husband is of a lower rank. The daughter of a Count Lewenhaupt who married a Baron Thott or a Herr (Mr) Rosenkrantz could choose to go by Countess Thott or Countess Rosenkrantz.
 
Well, in DK at least in the early 1700s "jomfru" = jungfrau = maiden was a polite form of address to or about a young woman. Certainly among affluent farmers and merchants. Implying that she as a matter of course was assumed to be virtuous.
Whether that in higher society at the time was cringe worthy I don't know.


Did you see the French movie "Michael Kohlhaas" with Mads Mikkelsen as Kohlhaas? In the original novella by Heinrich von Kleist, two young noblemen are the villains who asked for a permit of passage from Kohlhaas, the horse merchant, and then mistreated his horses so Kohlhaas tried to get them to pay damages but the justice system preferred the nobility and then hell broke loose... These two young men are named "Junker" Hinz and Kunz of Tronka. Today (and back then) in German the phrase "Hinz und Kunz" meant: "everybody", because so many men were named Hinz (short for Heinrich, losts of emperors) and Kunz (short for Konrad, equally noble name used so very often back then). Von Kleist used their names and their status to describe them in a demeaning way, it could have happened anywhere in a confrontation between nobility and non-noble bourgeoisie (Kohlhaas was quite rich and successful, but was stioll denied his right because he was not noble).
The French movie changed a lot of things, though but that was the basis of the story.


As for the young unwed daughters of the nobility called "Fräulein" - maybe those from the lower nobility. But there is of course the famous quote from "Faust" by Goethe when Gretchen replies to Faust's compliments: "Bin weder Fräulein noch bin ich schön, kann unbegleitet nach Hause gehen". (Am neither a Fräulein nor am I beautiful, don't need an escort to go home".
 
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Coming back to Prince Nikolai , a lot of royals are now "People".
He is following the same way as Charlotte, Jazmin Grace, Kitty and Olympia.
Poor Gotha !
 
(This has now been edited so much that I've decided to repost.)

This is pretty interesting!

No, I haven't seen that movie, Kataryn. (You did notice your Mads' brother won an Emmy BTW?)

Frøken = Danish for fräulein or miss is an old way of address, perhaps even older than jomfru/Jungfrau/miss here in DK?
I don't know if we just adopted the German word as is or whether it originally here in DK was also a kind of diminutive for frue/Frau/mrs.
Here in DK "frøken" was a very common way of polite address until the whole thing about mr, mrs, and miss basically went out of use here in the early 70's. Just as formal You.
To the endless amusement of my children I addressed my teachers with mr/mrs/miss and surname for the first years at school, and for some teachers that never changed.

Piga in Swedish is directly translated to "pige" in Danish. However, that word is still used about a girl. In Sweden they use "flicka" for a girl.
Interestingly the Swedish word. "dreng" = domestic male servant, usually on a farm, simply means boy in Danish and is used for all young males.
The Danish word for a man you employed for practical use was usually "karl" = carl. Or a "svend" in towns.
But the word "pige" was also in DK used about a domestic female servant, whether in a house or on a farm, but it has remained in use for all young females without being considered derogatory.
Interestingly the word "madame" was used in general about women in polite society, pronounced in the French way. But around a 100 years ago it was common to refer to some women as "madame", now with an audible e. It was not always a polite reference. And the derogatory variant "madamme" with an even more audible e was certainly not polite! That was, also in papers, used about trashy, loud and foul-mouthed women of low class. Like a hag or bag.

But let's go back to Joachim's children and propel ourselves back to 1750 where all this thing about titles was very much alive and well. And let us play that Joachim and our Marie are now count and countess for all four children. Divorce was hardly an option, so Alexandra has been written out.
By their peers Joachim would be addressed Hr Greve = Mr. Count. Marie would usually be addressed in third person (the) Grevinden = Countess.
By people who are still up there but of lesser rank Joachim would likely be addressed Hr. Greve or Hr. (the) Greven (third person) Marie again in third person Fru Grevinden = Mrs. (the) Countess.
By more subservient persons both would addressed: Deres nåde = Your Grace.
In more direct but subservient address would have been Eder = Thou or Thy.
Or by a lowborn, but not a servant or tenant who would likely address J&M as Eders Nåde. I'n not sure how to translate to English.
By their own servants or the peasants living on their land, they would be invariable be addressed in third person as Nådigherren or Nådigfruen = something like Your Gracious/Graciousness or Gracious Sir/Gracious Madam. And they would naturally take off their hats and bow/curtsy before even addressing J&M.
In return J&M would address senior servants and staff with formal You.
Servants who were close to them with "du" = informal you.
And everybody else in third person "han" or "hun" = he, her. Examples: "Ah, I see his wheat field is fine this year." "Can he get his cart out of my way!"
That, despite the fact that Joachim as a conscientious landholder was expected to know the heads of each family by name and also know at least who their sons and daughters were.
In fact they would likely feel flattered if Joachim addressed them by name. Still in third person though. Examples: "Well, done! Peter has always has a way with horses." or "Yes, Anne is a good, hardworking wife."

And that form of address to servants would apply to M&J's children as well.

The boys would all be Greve = Count in their own right. While Athena would Komtesse = Comtesse.
Let's go straight to Athena, because she's the most interesting in this aspect.
Like her mother she could expect to be addressed in third person by everyone.
Either Komtessen = the Comtess or more informally or in general: Frøkenen = the miss.
She would invariably be addressed by everyone, except her closer relatives and closest friends, with various forms of formal you.
Peasants and servants would address her in third person as "nådigfrøkenen" = (the) Gracious Miss.

Addressing members of the DRF in third person is also today very common, also in direct address.

The medieval polite word for a miss here in DK was "mø" Derived directly from maidenhead (the DK word being mødom) it was used about a young unmarried, virtuous woman usually of good family.
 
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For Nikolai it is 100% sure that he will never be King, so he can and should live a normal life (i.e. to work and gain money).
 
I think you nailed it.

And yes, I think working abroad is a good option, as long as he doesn't get himself involved in something stupid. Out of sight, out of mind. - But of course that means a de facto exile.

I don’t think it’s a de facto exile so much as a recognition that, like everyone else in the world, members of royal families have to make choices, and that choosing one thing means giving up something else.

If Nikolai wants to remain in Denmark and continue being known as HH Prince Nikolai, (with the obvious connection to the monarch that entails), then his safe career options are limited. By safe I mean unlikely to cause controversy or lead to him getting involved in something stupid.

If he wants to go into finance, for example, or start some sort of business, or really do anything that involves clients and/or money, he should do so as Mr. Nikolai X and at least the beginning phases should take place outside Denmark.

For someone in Nikolai’s position trying to establish a career in Denmark in which you need to make or manage money, get and keep clients or just generally make a name for yourself would be a losing battle on two fronts. On one hand there would be no challenge - things would be almost too easy because there would be so many people anxious to get close to a member of the DRF. He’d never know if he was successful because of his actual talent or because of his family background. On the other hand he’d have it harder in some ways than a random commoner because the public and media scrutiny and potential backlash in response to any mistake he made would be so great.

And of course he’d still get plenty of career perks and privileges if he settled abroad. But in that case I think the majority of Danes wouldn’t care - like you said, out of sight, out of mind - and there would be more checks and limits placed on him in a place where he wasn’t a big fish in a small pond.
 
The saga about Nikolai and the rental car continues!

https://www.bt.dk/royale/alexandra-udstiller-royalt-rod-det-er-synd-for-prins-nikolai

Alexandra has now retracted her statement that Nikolai was exploited by the car company Sixt.
Via her secretary she has said that "new informations in the matter" means that she can no longer say that Nikolai was exploited by Sixt.

The owner of the car-hiring company, Henrik Keller Isaksen, says:
"I feel sorry for the young Prince that he has been misunderstood in this context."
Jeg synes, det er synd for den unge prins, at han er blevet misforstået i denne sammenhæng,

He does not seem willing to comment on, who made this cock-up:
"This is a matter the DRF will have to take up with the press themselves."
Det er en sag, som kongehuset selv må tage med pressen,

BT has asked a royal expert, Henrik Byager, for a comment. And to sum up his conclusion in very simple terms: Alexandra has been told to check with the court, before making statements that involves members of the DRF - including her own son.

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- This seems a little murky to me!
My opinion right now is that either it was a case of mutual misunderstanding between Nikolai and the car company.
Or Nikolai had been perfectly willing to do an advert for the company. (Perhaps even offering it himself? For a discount?)
That was a no go, so the court whacked him on the head and issued a statement that was basically an apology on behalf of Nikolai.
Whatever happened, it appears that Henrik Isaksen was in good faith when the photos of Nikolai were published, albeit on the company website only. And that seems to me to have been acknowledged early on by the DRF.

So IMO Nikolai seems to have made an independent decision he shouldn't have and he didn't check with anyone first.
Well, people make mistakes. What matters is of course whether he learns from them. And it was perhaps time the DRF laid out some clear guidelines for Nikolai and Felix too for what is go and no go for a member of the DRF.

As for Alexandra, IMO someone called her and told her not to issue statements before coordinating it with the DRF. - Get it, Alex!?!
 
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:previous: agree. Im leaning towards Nikolai willingly posing. Now lessons learned.
What made it worse was Alexandra's statement. The DRF statement was enough and any disagreements could be handed privately. She left Nikolai looking as very naive
 
:previous: agree. Im leaning towards Nikolai willingly posing. Now lessons learned.
What made it worse was Alexandra's statement. The DRF statement was enough and any disagreements could be handed privately. She left Nikolai looking as very naive

And herself looking very protective without apparently knowing the full story. She probably went ahead with Nikolai's version who painted a slightly better picture of himself than what was going on - probably not expecting his mother to twist it even more and go public.
 
Nikolai certainly has a very "model" essence about him.
Regarding the Sixt issue, I doubt that he was exploited as Alexandra states. I think he voluntarily agreed to do it, as it would lead to more exposure and publicity for him as a model. Perhaps she doesn't approve of his modelling career and, maybe this is a far stretch, but is saying such things to the media to try and get Nikolai to get discouraged by modelling and focus on a more "princely" career/start further education?
 
:previous: I don't think Alexandra has anything against Nikolai modelling. On the contrary in fact!
There are references in this thread to Alexandra being involved in Nikolai's modeling work, albeit from the sideline. It was also a friend of Alexandra who approached her in order to offer Nikolai the chance of becoming a model. The head of the modeling agency Nikolai belongs to, is a friend of Alexandra.
The one who would perhaps like to discourage Nikolai from pursuing a professional modeling career would IMO more likely be Joachim.

ADDED:

https://www.bt.dk/royale/alexandra-var-overvaeldet-over-prins-nikolai
Alexandra was present today when he walked the catwalk.
Nikolai had a prominent role in the show.
Alexandra said via her secretary:
"It went totally fantastic. I was very overwhelmed by the fantastic show and the atmosphere was so good. I'm immensely proud of him, he did so well."

The creative head of his agency, Sune Planer said:
"The last time he opened and closed the show and today he closed it. He did it really good and closed the show and that is in itself a huge honor and very prestigious, so we are very proud of that."
 
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It is Alexandra and Nikolai.

But what's a boo?
 
Thanks. ?

Well, we'll see...
This dude seems somewhat ambivalent in his taste! :D
 
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