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  #281  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabelle de France View Post
I only read rave reviews about Mary, Danish people seem to value her a lot...
as for Alexandra, if she was so much esteemed, the divorce with Joachim was probably very badly lived by Danish people and can parthy explain their resentment towards him...
Mary is today indeed very respected and well liked - by most I'd say. Even those who are not that interested in royalty and the DRF, at least respect Mary.

Alexandra was still the superstar of the DRF when Frederik got engaged to Mary. She rarely, if ever, put a foot wrong.
At least not on the job. There were rumors that she was difficult to work for. - But that can perhaps be attributed to having a high work-standard herself and not being wholly used to the seemingly more laid back Danish work-culture. And if you have been given a dressing down by your boss, you may feel some resentment. Especially if your boss is right.
And yes, Joachim got all the blame for the divorce for the first few years.

But the public image of Alexandra has now changed somewhat, not least because a new superstar emerged in the DRF, Mary. And as a result of that, Frederik is now also a superstar.
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  #282  
Old 08-05-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Mary is today indeed very respected and well liked - by most I'd say. Even those who are not that interested in royalty and the DRF, at least respect Mary.

Alexandra was still the superstar of the DRF when Frederik got engaged to Mary. She rarely, if ever, put a foot wrong.
At least not on the job. There were rumors that she was difficult to work for. - But that can perhaps be attributed to having a high work-standard herself and not being wholly used to the seemingly more laid back Danish work-culture. And if you have been given a dressing down by your boss, you may feel some resentment. Especially if your boss is right.
And yes, Joachim got all the blame for the divorce for the first few years.

But the public image of Alexandra has now changed somewhat, not least because a new superstar emerged in the DRF, Mary. And as a result of that, Frederik is now also a superstar.
Without downplaying their own personal abilities it's clear that both Joachim and Frederik were made by their choice of partners.
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  #283  
Old 08-05-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Without downplaying their own personal abilities it's clear that both Joachim and Frederik were made by their choice of partners.
I totally agree.
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  #284  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Isabelle de France View Post
I read your comments with interest Muhler...
I think Frédéric's fans like the "fairy-tale people" facade of this charming prince who makes young girls dream... he is handsome, he found his sleeping beauty, he has an easy life whose made people dream about...
Joachim has from the start had the ungrateful role of the second who have to disappear in front of his brother, even if he is more serious and more responsible... so that the fairy tale continues, so that F and M fans keep dreaming, it is necessary that Frederick and his family are adorned with all the qualities and that Joachim and his family are the "villains" in this story...
I remember how Marie was welcomed in Denmark and the critics she was overwhelmed at the beginning...
I think unfortunately that Joachim will always be poorly considered whatever he does... and I'm sorry because I think he's a good person... and nobody (except you) wants to see him...
sorry my english is bad...
I don't know if that's me you're referring to as "Frederik's fans" but I can assure you that Frederik – and especially Frederik's looks – plays no part in the way that I'm critical of Joachim.

Additionally, absolutely no one has deliberately set out to vilify Joachim. He's "poorly considered" based on his actions and the behaviour he displays. He may well be a good person – people who've actually spent time with him and gotten to know him definitely say as much – but when he fails to show that side to the public (and instead consistently entangles himself in unfortunate cases such as the circumstances re. the move to France), you can't blame them for thinking the way they do.
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  #285  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Easy now, You are the one who consistently complain about Joachim having a Mickey Mouse job - little show, little work.
I'm merely pointing out that M&F can be (and were) accused of the same thing (...)
And I'm pretty sure I replied to just that?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since post #237 I've been under the impression that the subject of our discussion is the public's perception of Joachim. At least I've been analysing the factors that I believe are to blame for this perception. Now, am I a fan of Joachim? No. Do I dislike him as a person? Absolutely not – why would I? I don't know him. What I dislike is his behaviour and his actions which I also largely think taints the public image of him. But I definitely don't need you to explain to me what I feel about Joachim. Especially not when you insist on putting words in my mouth to fit me into your "everyone hates Joachim unreasonably :(" narrative – which in itself is a bit rich for someone accusing me of "looking for things to support my views"

You're asking me to excuse his actions based on what-if scenarios? I'm not gonna do that for any royal. I can sympathise just fine with a couple of missteps but when someone keeps making the same mistakes, I'm prone to believe that they're just unwilling to learn. As for my "conclusions", I'm not concluding anything because again, I don't know him. I am saying that this is how his actions are perceived by the public. I'm not speculating on the motives behind these actions because they're not just wildly hypothetical, they're also beyond the point in a context concerning the public's perception – if the public isn't informed of the motives behind his actions, they can't be expected to take it into consideration.

En gang til for Prins Knud:

#1 & #2: I didn't say the reporters were right. I said that since Joachim chose to react the way he did, that affects the public's perception of him. An intelligent man like Joachim knows that there's nothing positive to win from that kind of behaviour and as such I'm not gonna sit here and excuse it as though he's some nitwit who doesn't know any better. I'm not fond of his behaviour but I'd never question his intelligence.
#3: He had 58 working days in 2018. As for his job with the military, it's hard to get your hands on those figures when the court won't disclose them
#4: While we've established by now that you only see the problems you want to see, as I said in my original post, there's so much more to the sale of Schackenborg than the sale itself.
#5: Again, openness ≠ blaming others for your own mistakes. We would clog up a lot less space if you bothered reading my replies to you.
#6: Haha. Ah yes, when every other argument fails, please do resort to the "wHaT's YoUr QuALiFiCaTiOn tO sAy ThAT" rhetoric Again, I thought I made it clear that I didn't comment on his actual position but the way his position and the court's subsequent refusal to comment on the hours he puts into it was perceived in the public. As I've studied communications, I wouldn't call myself unqualified in that department but of course you're correct that it isn't my current major
#7: It's irrelevant whether or not they knew. They weren't asked which is what the constitution states. A formality, sure, but publicity-wise not a good look to deliberately fail to abide by the constitution.

Lastly, I don't think you're being patronising to me. Your entire post shows that you're patronising me. A couple of posts ago, you made sure to point out that we're not fighting. I disagree about that. I think once you can't make your point without resorting to patronising rhetoric, it stops being a "frank discussion". Accuse me of being unnuanced for refusing to agree that Joachim should be cut slack on the basis hypotheses and what-if scenarios, I think I'll survive I make my observations about Joachim's actions behaviour based on the information that's available to the general public and I have no qualms about looking myself in the eyes.

I think we should end it here, Muhler. The point is moot.
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  #286  
Old 08-05-2019, 03:52 PM
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Fine by me. If you wish, we can end our little duel here.

I will however point out that I did not state that you have a personal dislike towards Joachim. I was careful to point out that it was an ever clearer impression I had.
And of course I go for your statements and arguments.

Until our next frank discussion then.
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  #287  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:44 AM
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Perhaps this should go in the Schackenborg thread?

https://www.bt.dk/kendte/prins-joach...heldig-moegsag

Anyway, Schackenborg Slotskro (inn) near Schackenborg Manor, which is owned by Joachim and shipping magnate, Hans Michael Jebsen, (*) has lost its elite smiley after an unannounced visit by the authority that looks after the hygiene at restaurants and inns in DK.
The conditions were not up to standard and there was an immediate sanction, the loss of the elite smiley.

In DK all restaurants, inns and other places where prepared food is served are obliged by law to hang the report by the controlling agency at a place where prospective guests can see it before entering the place.
To make it simple the reports is marked by IIRC a happy smiley
A pleased smiley
And indifferent smiley
A less than happy smiley
And a sour smiley
If the place get topmarks all the way, the reports is marked with a big happy smiley, an elite smiley
(They don't actually look like the above, but I think you get my meaning.)

The inn is leased and of course the one leasing it is not particularly happy. Partly because it of course is bad for business to loose an elite smiley and partly because this usually means more unannounced visits.

Now, what has this got to do with Joachim? Not that much I guess, but as co-owner the buck ultimately ends at his desk.

And here in the middle of the Silly Season, this has of course ended up in all the papers, with Joachim in the headline.

- So should you ever visit DK and feel a little peckish, don't just look at the menu and the prices, take a look at the report with the similes as well. They should preferably all be smiling broadly.
And on that note, to the surprise of the tourist industry here in DK, it has been pouring in with Swiss, Austrian and Belgian (and Dutch, but they are more common) tourists this year. Fleeing from the heat further south from here.

(*) I don't think I'm too off the mark, when I estimate that he controls about 1% of the world merchant shipping. Yet he is almost unknown.
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  #288  
Old 08-06-2019, 02:13 PM
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the kingdom's spiteful tongues will still put everything on Joachim shoulders...
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  #289  
Old 08-06-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Isabelle de France View Post
the kingdom's spiteful tongues will still put everything on Joachim shoulders...
Not so much "the kingdom's spiteful tongues" as a rag that specialises in clickbait trying to get more views by dragging in a famous name. Akin to how another Danish rag wrote a headline about how Mary and Marie are "fighting" over the friendship of Caroline Fleming only to write in the actual article that she simply seems closer to Marie than to Mary now. Nothing about a fight. As Muhler said, it's the silly season. They have no news to report, so they make them up themselves.
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