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  #61  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:52 PM
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Perhaps we might allow Marie a little more time and flexibility to accustom herself to Denmark, her impending royal status and the Danish language? Of course, it is indeed incumbent upon her to immerse herself in her new country's interests and language, but if I were she, I'd feel no small trepidation at the obligations and demand to learn what so many non-native speakers regard as a difficult language.

Hopefully, Princess Mary will prove a strong support for Marie, having had first-hand experience of Marie's situation and having borne, stoicly in my opinion, the brunt of odious comparison, herself.

In short, 'tis early days yet. Time enough for Marie to polish her persona and to shine.
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Old 05-03-2008, 11:11 PM
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It's not fair to compare any new princess to any old one. Mary came in and was compared to Alexandra, and poor Marie now has both of these popular princesses to be compared to. It's not going to be easy for her at first. It'll take much time, months or, probably, years for Marie to feel comfortable in her new life and become a hugely popular princess.

She's getting and ton of grief for apparantly not speaking Danish well. Yes, she hasn't apparantly taken a ton of lessons. But she's been planning her wedding, quitting her job, preparing to start a new life in a totally different country, learning the ins-and-outs of royal life, learning to be a housewife, and, maybe, mother (she's got Nikolai and Felix now), learning the history of Denmark, meeting her new family, spending time with friends and making new ones, PLUS trying to learn a language that, I know from experience, is quite difficult. We've got to give her a break! Even now, I've heard Prince Henrik's Danish isn't perfect, and Crown Princess Mary has been speaking it for, more or less, four years, and although I think she does quite well, no, she's not as good a speaker as a natural Dane.

I think what Marie needs to do is just show the Danish people that she's at least trying her best to be a good princess. That's really all she can do.
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  #63  
Old 05-03-2008, 11:24 PM
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Fair or not it's inevitable , acdc1.

However, the fact of the matter is: This is her new life now. This is to be expected. Every single public figure has, and will continue, to endure this type of scrunity. The Crown Princess still deals with it in the press as well as on various royal watching discussion forums, but I haven't seen nor read anyone crying foul. Why is that? Mary received so much grief, moreso than Marie, in the months leading to the wedding... let's not forget that.


Quote:
mother (she's got Nikolai and Felix now)...
They have a mother. Countess Alexandra is not dead.


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  #64  
Old 05-03-2008, 11:59 PM
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I agree with you entirely, GT.

As for, 'Give her a break'. Anyone who has spoken of their uncertainties have done so without the slightest ill intent. We want Marie to succeed, we want her to be happy and find her place and this shall all take time. To date, however, there are aspects of either her personality (as portrayed by the media it must be said), or conduct, which have raised an eyebrow or two. First impressions often last, rightly or wrongly. And until we see more of the woman that is Marie, we can only go by what we've seen thus far.

She's a beautiful woman, and I hold great hopes for her in her new life.
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  #65  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:08 AM
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After reading the interview Marie did with PdV, I was a little disappointed that she readily admitted only having six hours of Danish lessons a month.

"It must be said that my courses take place in Copenhagen..." Couldn't they get a private tutor closer to Schackenborg? I really doubt that Copenhagen is the only city in Denmark which offer lessons in learning Danish Considering she has had since October (prior to that even) to learn Danish, six hours a month is not a very good figure IMO, especially as Marie will need to be able to understand Danish on her wedding day!

And I know that Danish is a extremly hard language to learn - as does Marie "It's a very difficult language" - so shouldn't she put in more time if it is so hard? Two or three hours a week could really speed up the process, as opposed to one. I know how hard learning a language is, I'm currently studying German at school - we have just under six hours of class a week! The more you practise a language, the better you get at understanding it.

Hopefully, Marie will pick up the language quicker once she has moved permanently to Denmark

ETA: Just seeing MR's post above, I would like to add that agree 100% with what she said - I really would love for Marie to succeed, because not succeeding in the life she is entering can be terribly disastourous.
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  #66  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:42 AM
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I believe all of us, including myself as stated on page 16, have good wishes as well as good intentions for her. Why? It's not easy what she is going through, and personally speaking, I feel for her.

Nonetheless, as MR noted, "First impressions often last, rightly or wrongly. And until we see more of the woman that is Marie, we can only go by what we've seen thus far." I concur.

In the end, I do believe that she will succeed and crave her own niche in DRF, but it won't be easy if she continues at the present rate ten years down the line.


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  #67  
Old 05-04-2008, 01:50 AM
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Smile

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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
In the end, I do believe that she will succeed and crave her own niche in DRF, but it won't be easy if she continues at the present rate ten years down the line.


I couldn't agree more, Glittering Tiaras.

But, could it be remotely possible that Marie is hiding behind a putative lack of success in learning Danish by suggesting that she hasn't yet had sufficient time or even occasion to organise enough lessons to help her?

I only suggest this as a possibility because, like the US, Australia is a country of many disparate immigrant citizens, and over the years, I've noticed the struggles that so many have had with learning English, a language quite utterly and linguistically remote from their own native tongues.

Part of my family's community involvement is concerned with teaching English to newcomers, so I know, full well, that people from widely divergent cultures have difficulties, sometimes, in simply reproducing the actual sounds, much less enunciating an actually comprehensible word or two in English. Even in a close one-to-one setting, some new Australian arrivals are hesitant to exercise any skill, no matter how latent, due to a foreboding sense of embarrassment and a fear that they'll be criticised.

Might this be a consideration for any new foreign princess-to-be?

I'm not suggesting that this is so: rather, I'm merely raising the possibility.

I will, though, alter my opinion if, after 10 years, Marie hasn't progressed to the point of being comfortable and adroit in conversing in Danish.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:14 AM
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Danish is not an easy language, my father was danish and i know the language, but it is in the person who study how much interest has in learning, she might not be a person interested in learning languages, so if this is the case she is in real trouble. I have a freind here from Argentina, she is here for 14 years, she is alwasy souranded by latin people and she gets upset when my husband, british, does not want to speak with her, becasue he can not understand anything of what she tries to say , not even myself i can not understand her when she says one or two words in englsih, she really does not want to learn, so she does not bother, she goes to latin doctors, latin supermarkets, etc..etc....
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  #69  
Old 05-04-2008, 02:18 AM
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It definitely could be a consideration for her lack of skills at this point, yes. However, I must say that I'm not so sure the blame should solely be on her shoulders for the lack of time spent, six hours a month since October, learning the language. Someone should have made the concerted effort to engage her in more lessons.

As I've always stated that learning Danish is extremely hard. Believe I know. However, it takes time and the willingness to learn. Does Marie have the time? I don't know her schedule, but there should have been more lessons instead of six hours a month that's for sure. Is she willing? I have no idea. There is no evidence to my knowledge that she is or that she flatly stated yes. Nonetheless, someone should have signed her up for lessons in Geneva which would have helped her tremendously... right?


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  #70  
Old 05-04-2008, 03:11 AM
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Marie: Possible Future Challenges and/or Successes as Princess of Denmark.

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I received a message from a moderator saying that my post had been removed because it contained speculation. We don't know the royals and we get all our information second hand, so isn't it all speculation?

Our rule about speculation is intended to prevent tabloid-type flights of fancy which often slip into outright fantasy and sometimes even libel. While we realise that much of the information posted in the threads is based on reports in the media which we can't verify, we expect posters to base their statements on published reports rather than on wishful thinking or unsubstantiated hearsay. The forum moderators have the final say about whether posts are unacceptably speculative. Disagreements with moderator decisions must take place via private message, not by arguing in the threads and certainly not by reposting deleted material.

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  #71  
Old 05-04-2008, 03:40 AM
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Question is, will Marie be taking over all of Alexandra's patronages, or a few only, or will she be getting totally new jobs. Obviously she has to learn the language first, so that will be the first thing she has to do.
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  #72  
Old 05-04-2008, 03:45 AM
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Marie won't be automatically taking over Alexandra's former patronages (the Countess kept a few following her divorce and re-marriage). Some of them have already been reassigned to other members of the family (eg. Mother's Help is now a patronage of the Crown Princess), and the others might not want another royal patron for a few years. Marie will more than likely become patron of her own charities, that way she can make her own mark. More about her possible patronages can be found here. Hope that answers your question Emerald
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  #73  
Old 05-04-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
They have a mother. Countess Alexandra is not dead.
I know that, GT!

She's not going to have to go through "mother" training, per say, but she is going to have to learn to deal with kids (she probably won't have a "class' for it), because Nikolai and Felix are part of her life now.
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  #74  
Old 05-04-2008, 09:23 AM
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In the PdeV interview Marie didn't say that she knew no Danish, what she actually said was that she was making slow progress. She only had 6 hours Danish lessons and had mastered the basics. So she knows high frequency words and some simple sentences, but not enough to hold any kind of conversation. Also she doesn't live in Denmark, until she marries she's commuting, unlike Alexandra and Mary who both lived in Denmark. Alexandra from when she got engaged and Mary for a year before she got engaged.

Mary was criticised for the fact that at her engagement interview she knew very little Danish despite living in Denmark for a year, she had taken no Danish lessons, that came after her engagement. She's still an easy mark for criticism over her language skills, a few months back one of the nasty Danish tabloids ran a poll for their readers "Who speaks the worst Danish Mary or Henrik?"

Alexandra did have an advantage in the she was a fluent German speaker, with the language structure being similar that helped her with her Danish. Although her perfect pronunciation of Danish has more to do with Alexandra's language learning ability and having an 'ear' for languages not everyone has that. Marie speaks other languages but they are romance languages ( French, Italian, Portuguese) which are not similar to Danish and therefore not much help in learning Danish. Alexandra did though set the bar very high when it came to the Danish public's expectations of how quickly their new princesses learnt Danish, 3 months after her engagement Alexandra gave a speech in Danish with excellent pronunciation and intonation.

Back to the PdeV interview Marie said that once she lived in Denmark fulltime after her marriage she hoped her aquisition of the Danish language would come faster.

Marie has her first official engagement in June with the rest of the Danish royals at an anniversary. Realistically though she won't ever have a very full program of engagements, more like Princess Benedikte who has a handfull several weeks apart. Denmark is a small country, Mary has 20+ patronages, and she's the Crown princess and so has a more prominant role. Alexandra still has 12 patronages, she kept her major ones, such as UNICEF Denmark, the Blind society, the Danish Girls Choir, the English Speaking Union. As Alexandra gets an allowance from the government it wouldn't look good for her to renounce all her patronages and get money and do nothing so she'll keep up her public role.
Alexandra had a high profile role even though she wasn't married to the heir because at the time she was the only resident princess in Denmark ( Benedikte lives in Germany) also Frederik was a part-time royal, he was still 'in training' as Navy seal, working in Danish embassies abroad. That's not the case anymore.

Look at other royal families, Norway which has a population similar to Denmark, the CP couple have the major engagements, Princess Martha Louise does one or two each month and has 5 patronages, her husband carries out no royal duties. Princess Astrid does a few royal engagements a year.
Sweden CP Victoria does the majority, Carl Philip and Madeleine a few a year.
Spain, Felipe and Letizia, 3 or 4 a week, Elena and Cristina 3 or 4 a month, plus both Elena ( who teaches English in her own school) and Cristina ( who works as the director of social welfare at the Caixa Foundation) have jobs outside the royal family. Netherlands WA and Maxima carry out the majority of engagments, Constantijn and Laurentein a few every couple of months, not only don't they live in The Netherlands but they also have jobs outside the royal family.

Pragmatically speaking that will also be Marie's role, a few patronages, a few engagements every couple of weeks ( similar to Princess Benedikte) live at Shackenborg in the country, travel to Copenhagen when needed. In her position as wife to the second son she won't be a fulltime royal, it's not the case in other European monarchies either.
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  #75  
Old 05-04-2008, 09:53 AM
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she won't be a fulltime royal
Won't be a full time royal? Interesting.

From the day she marries she shall henceforth be a full time royal, just as her husband is a full time representative of the royal house and just as her husband's ex wife, when Princess of Denmark, was a full time representative. Now, surely a time of transition and familiarity shall be needed, a time to 'find her legs', so to speak, but there is nothing "part time" about the life she is about to inherit.

Mary won't be Crown Princess forever, and so then you have three too four (assuming the children are still young. Princess Benedikte being of good health and Prince Henrik still kicking) members of the royal family representing and aiding both the King and Queen and their own charities, respectively. Marie's role will only increase as time goes by so any idea of her not being a full time royal from early on in the piece, is quite unlikely.
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  #76  
Old 05-04-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Won't be a full time royal? Interesting.

From the day she marries she shall henceforth be a full time royal, just as her husband is a full time representative of the royal house and just as her husband's ex wife, when Princess of Denmark, was a full time representative. Now, surely a time of transition and familiarity shall be needed, a time to 'find her legs', so to speak, but there is nothing "part time" about the life she is about to inherit.

Mary won't be Crown Princess forever, and so then you have three too four (assuming the children are still young. Princess Benedikte being of good health and Prince Henrik still kicking) members of the royal family representing and aiding both the King and Queen and their own charities, respectively. Marie's role will only increase as time goes by so any idea of her not being a full time royal from early on in the piece, is quite unlikely.
Benedikte hasn't been a fulltime royal since she married 40 years ago, she lives in Germany and every few weeks travels to Denmark. In the early 1970's Queen Ingrid was given the right to be regent as Benedikte had young children and couldn't travel to Denmark frequently, she spent even less time in Denmark and there were few adult royals. ( Margrethe, Henrik and Ingrid)

Henrik isn't a fulltime royal currently, he also runs his winery, he writes books and has scaled down his patronages, he's said as much, he's given one to Mary and one to Frederik. Even Queen Margrethe isn't a fulltime royal in that she also is able to work as a stage designer and artist, compare her number of public engagements with QEII, Juan Carlos or Emperor Akihito who carried out 1000 last year.

Population wise Denmark is smaller than Norway and yet Norway has 4 fulltime royals, King, Queen, Crown prince and princess. There is no reason why the same cannot be the case in Denmark. Martha Louise carries out a few engagements a month, her husband none, ML's Danish counterpart is Joachim, Ari Behn's will be Marie. The difference being Marie will carry out some engagements, but no she won't be a fulltime royal. As I said Benedikte hasn't been one in years.

Plus factor into it also Alexandra will still be around and carrying out engagements and she will still have patronages, as she receives a government allowance she can't really not carry out public engagements.
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  #77  
Old 05-04-2008, 10:35 AM
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Martha Louise carries out a few engagements a month, her husband none, ML's Danish counterpart is Joachim, Ari Behn's will be Marie.
I may be mistaken about this but didn't ML give up her HRH and now she receives no income from the state, if this is the case then it is understandable that she is not a working member of the Royal House. Joachim does receive an income from the state and I believe that it will increased after his marriage to Marie, with 10% of it belonging to Marie. If Marie is to be 'paid' by the Danish people, then why on earth wouldn't she be working for them?
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  #78  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:08 PM
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Your take on the matter is interesting and I do enjoy your posts, though to further suggest the Queen of Denmark is not a full time royal is certainly pushing it.

Margrethe's artistic interests are noted, and have always been noted as a private hobby, which funnily enough, haven't always remained private (no surprise when your aiding in the creation of costumes and sets), though publicity or not, they are still very much considered a private leisure and conflict not with matters of state, or the day to day requirements expected of her. Furthermore, having undergone two knee replacements is, I think, a perfectly sound reason why her official enagagments, have at times, been restricted to what is physically tolerable. Comparing the number of engagements Margrethe undertakes, with any other sovereign does not then suggest she would be considered a part time royal. In no way does it suggest that. .

As for Benedikte, I'm certain she retains a good workload in both Germany and Denmark (nothing I'd call part time), but in the next however many years, I'm sure her services shall decrease, as would be naturally assumed. So you can then classify those able to officiate any function (exlcuding the prospective King and Queen, their children and nephews) down to two. Joachim and Marie.

Quote:
Ari Behn's will be Marie
That's not an accurate comparison. Marie will be a titled member of the royal family. A working representative. Ari is not a member of the Norwegian royal family, so there is no need for him, as a 'private citizen', to undertake any official role.
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  #79  
Old 05-04-2008, 05:07 PM
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In the PdeV interview Marie didn't say that she knew no Danish, what she actually said was that she was making slow progress. She only had 6 hours Danish lessons and had mastered the basics. So she knows high frequency words and some simple sentences, but not enough to hold any kind of conversation
Yes, I understand that. However, the sentence I bolded... there is no evidence for that. It's an assumption at this point. We do know when she was on the slopes in Switzerland with Joachim and the kids, she was asked by a reporter if she would like to say a few words in Danish... she said, no. Now, one could easily deduce that this wasn't due to shyness rather her lack of language skills hence not knowing how to put a sentence together in Danish.


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Benedikte hasn't been a fulltime royal since she married 40 years ago, she lives in Germany and every few weeks travels to Denmark
I'm somewhat confused by your term not a full time royal. Once a royal, always a royal.

As MR noted once Marie stepped out to announce her engagement she became apart of that small circle. As for Princess Benedikte, she does do a lot as a royal; furthermore, a lot of her events, patronages, and so forth are not always reported nor posted on this or other forums. She is active and always has been. People seem to have forgotten about her...which is sad because she is hard working for both Denmark and in Germany.

By the way, thank you for your comments. :)
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Old 05-04-2008, 06:11 PM
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Even Queen Margrethe isn't a fulltime royal in that she also is able to work as a stage designer and artist, compare her number of public engagements with QEII, Juan Carlos or Emperor Akihito who carried out 1000 last year.
That is a weird statement - not a full-time royal? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Her artistic activities? If she prefers to do stage design, paintings and translations instead of gardening, reading, pursuing interests in horses or whatever other royals do, how does that make her less of a full-time royal?

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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
Population wise Denmark is smaller than Norway .....
.

That is not correct. Norway has population of 4.4m (Europĉiske lande - Norge) whereas the Danish population is 5.4m (Europĉiske lande - Danmark).
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