General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 4: July 2014 - August 2019

[Nordic]

Your guess is as good as mine.

Or, Marie wants to live in France now.

I wonder if they'll come back to Denmark...Maybe they'll do a "Benedikte"?
Live in Paris (France) and pop back for a few official events now and then.

 

[Muhler]

Or, Marie wants to live in France now.

I wonder if they'll come back to Denmark...Maybe they'll do a "Benedikte"?
Live in Paris (France) and pop back for a few official events now and then.

The thought has crossed my mind too.

With M&F having basically taken over as the regent couple, there isn't that much need for Joachim to remain in Denmark.
He basically only needs to return to Denmark for the occasional event and job.
He doesn't even have to step in as Rigsforstander, that is something Mary could do - and in only five years, Christian.

I imagine Joachim could become military attache to the Danish embassy in France. A number of EU countries, have in the wake of President Trump questioning the basic role of NATO, begun to co-operate closer. DK has for example earmarked navy units to operate under a French command for roles in the Mediterranean.
Apart from that DK has stationed troops in a number of African countries. The French intelligence gathering in large parts of Africa, especially the former French colonies, is considered second to none. (Stated by Frederik.) So it would make good sense to have Joachim stationed in Paris.
He, and such the whole family, could as such be stationed in Paris for several years.

I don't think it's as much about our Marie wishing to live in France. After all she has lived outside France for the better part of her adult life and teenage years too. But Joachim is very fond of France and French culture. And I think French mentality suits his character pretty well.

 

[maria-olivia]

The Resignations of 2 people working for Prince Joachim and Princess Marie.
was the first signal.
They seem more and more in the shadow , (except for the Montbousin loan tiara.) More and more the Crown Princes are seen , A State Visit for the Crown Prince and his Mother, the Crown Princess wearing a long dress Uniform etc...
Prince Joachim's eldest Son left the Army and he at his age wants to teach in the Military Academy....

 

[Iolanthe]

If they want their children to really get to know the French culture and to be immersed in a French school, this is one of the best and probably one of the last chances for them to do that in a not too "disturbing" way - considering the age of Henrik and Athena and the grades they are in. Many bi-national families that I know are at least considering (and checking out the possibilities for) a temporary move at about this time/these ages of the children. I think it's a great thing to do, if you have the chance.

 

[Dalriada]

Prince Joachim's eldest Son left the Army and he at his age wants to teach in the Military Academy....

Very odd turn of events. Then again Prince Constantin of the Netherlands lived outside NL for a while too. Good location though for son prince Nicolai to crash over for any cat walk shows.

 

[Somebody]

Very odd turn of events. Then again Prince Constantin of the Netherlands lived outside NL for a while too. Good location though for son prince Nicolai to crash over for any cat walk shows.

Prince Constantijn indeed lived and worked in Brussels for many years. He has a career. He only attended the odd event (and it's just an hour drive to the Dutch border and 2 hours to The Hague 9without traffic jams), so closer to many places in the Nethetlands than the distances within many other countries.

I don't think Joachim has a career outside of his toyal role. It's also an interesting choice in light of Nikolai's early resignation. Is he trying to proof himself? Was he inspired by Guillaume taking a year-long military course in London?

 

[Muhler]

Prince Constantijn indeed lived and worked in Brussels for many years. He has a career. He only attended the odd event (and it's just an hour drive to the Dutch border and 2 hours to The Hague 9without traffic jams), so closer to many places in the Nethetlands than the distances within many other countries.

I don't think Joachim has a career outside of his toyal role. It's also an interesting choice in light of Nikolai's early resignation. Is he trying to proof himself? Was he inspired by Guillaume taking a year-long military course in London?

Joachim does work under the Defense Chief, as a kind of expert or councilor in regards to the reserves under the Total Defense.
It's very much about who, how and how fast can people be mobilized and how can you attract people into becoming a part of the reserves.

 

[Somebody]

Joachim does work under the Defense Chief, as a kind of expert or councilor in regards to the reserves under the Total Defense.
It's very much about who, how and how fast can people be mobilized and how can you attract people into becoming a part of the reserves.

Thanks! So, would this training better equip him for this role?

 

[Nordic]

Prince Constantijn indeed lived and worked in Brussels for many years. He has a career. He only attended the odd event

Does/did Prince Constantijn have and appanage like Joachim has?

 

[Somebody]

Prince Constantijn indeed lived and worked in Brussels for many years. He has a career. He only attended the odd event

Does/did Prince Constantijn have and appanage like Joachim has?

No, he doesn't.

 

[Muhler]

Thanks! So, would this training better equip him for this role?

Absolutely!
It would help him in any senior staff-officer function. Also if he should decide to go career-officer and become general. (Full colonel is the highest rank an officer of the reserves can have.)

https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/...him-faar-flot-uddannelse-og-staerkt-netvaerk/
Jyllands Posten has asked the head of Military Studies at Copenhagen university what the course means.
As mentioned before it's a course for those who are destined to hold senior positions within the French military.
It will benefit Joachim to be around career officers for whom it makes no particular difference that Joachim is a Prince.
He will also create a network with (future) senior French officers and that is useful with the increased co-operation between DK and France. And, according to the head of military studies is important in a time where there are turbulent times in Africa.

--- So that indicates that this is very much about establishing personal relations with future French generals and senior military advisors to future French governments.

-----------

ADDED:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kongehuset-afsloerer-saadan-ser-fremtiden-i-frankrig-ud
Lene Balleby says that the family will only move to France this summer. No doubt because Henrik and Athena must finish their school year in DK first. that happens in the end of July. - When does schools start in France?
They have not yet found a new home in France.
While our Marie will keep up her jobs, Joachim is likely to be unable to cover as much ground as his used to. So no travels and only attending DRF events that are important.

An expert thinks it's a wise move and speculates that Joachim will pursue a more professional role in the military. (Or in connection with the military.)

 

[Elektra]

Absolutely!

Lene Ballby says that the family will only move to France this summer. No doubt because Henrik and Athena must finish their school year in DK first. that happens in the end of July. - When does schools start in France?

The schoolyear here usually begins the first week of September.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Interesting news. I too wonder if the family will split their time between Paris and Denmark like Benedikte, perhaps though whilst the children are still in education they'll visit Denmark in holiday time and on weekends or Joachim and Marie will go by themselves since regularly travelling back and forth between two countries would be very disrupting for the children if they were to attend school in Paris (as opposed to home tutoring like the Castro girls in Italy but I think it's more likely the children will go to a Parisian school).
I apologise if this has already been answered or asked, but are the children bilingual or do they just speak Danish with a basic understanding of French?

 

[Muhler]

Interesting news. I too wonder if the family will split their time between Paris and Denmark like Benedikte, perhaps though whilst the children are still in education they'll visit Denmark in holiday time and on weekends or Joachim and Marie will go by themselves since regularly travelling back and forth between two countries would be very disrupting for the children if they were to attend school in Paris (as opposed to home tutoring like the Castro girls in Italy but I think it's more likely the children will go to a Parisian school).
I apologise if this has already been answered or asked, but are the children bilingual or do they just speak Danish with a basic understanding of French?

It's my impression, based om what Marie has said, that the children are bilingual - when they want to. I.e. being spoken to in French but replying in Danish.
But I guess they are pretty fluent in basic French when on holidays in France.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

It's my impression, based om what Marie has said, that the children are bilingual - when they want to. I.e. being spoken to in French but replying in Danish.
But I guess they are pretty fluent in basic French when on holidays in France.

I had guessed that would be the case, thank you Muhler. Interesting note that Joachim and Marie's children's "type" of bilingual is known as code switching and can also be found in dialects as well as mainstream languages (I'm a linguistics student; so this stuff is fascinating to me!).

 

[eya]

Princess Marie at a charity show tonight says the move in France is a challenge for the children! Agree with her!

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

I applaud Prince Joachim for pursuing further military studies and in
France. Considering he is half French, his children with Alexandra are young adults, the affection the French people have for the Danish Royal Family and that his children with Princess Marie are still young and 3/4 French, this is a great opportunity for him and his family.

He knows his position as a Prince - in the not-too-long future, you will have Prince Christian (who will be eventually Crown Prince) and Princess Isabella being young adults and taking on royal duties and taking on the role of Regent if QMII, or indeed when their father is King, are overseas etc.

 

[JR76]

Princess Marie at a charity show tonight says the move in France is a challenge for the children! Agree with her!

Sorry, but the princess says that it'll be an exciting challenge without mentioning the children.

 

[iceflower]

.

Billedbladet also mentions Princess Marie's attendance at the charity fashion show and the comments she has made concerning the family's move to France:



** BB: Prinsesse Marie: Børnene glæder sig til Paris ** translation **


And here are some more photos of the charity evening:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 ** Pic 5 ** Pic 6 ** Pic 7 **

 

[Elektra]

He doesn't even have to step in as Rigsforstander, that is something Mary could do - and in only five years, Christian.

Don't people have to be in the succession line to be Rigforstander ?

 

[Kataryn]

I like this news. Marie agreed to come to Denmark and then settled in Schakenborg for years and now she has a chance to live in her former home country. It will be a good move on all sides, for the argument convinces me that France and Denmark will want to work closer together when it comes to the military and having a high-ranking officer (who surely has the highest secrecy rank? As occasional Royal regent he should be able to know every secret of the military, no?) in France is a good way for Denmark to assure their concerns are heard. Especially as Joachim as a son of the Head of the State of Denmark has direct access to the president of France, if he wants to.
OTOH his children know they have to look forward to earning their own money but must be careful when they do that in Denmark, so bringing up little Henrik and Athena in Paris is a way to ensure they can study or learn a craft (they are Margrethe's grandchildren after all) without as much public curiosity as in Denmark.

It might be a possibility that Nicolai is moving with them. Maybe he has plans to only start out as a male model but has a deeper interest in fashion and could study at a fashion school or become an apprentice in a designer house? That's a lot easier as a prince in Paris than in Denmark.

And doesn't Marie's brothers live in or around Paris? Her father? Other relatives, who might have children without any "public profile", so Henrik and Athena can do things with them and not be hounded like they are when they spend time with Fred's kids?
Plus there might be a possibility for Marie to get payed work as a charity representative for international companies in Paris which she couldn't do in Copenhagen as the countries' princess. Joachim and Marie have to see Felix and their own two children to see through university till they an live off their own income. Plus Nicolai in case he wants to study at a private school. I am not sure how much money the family has, but could it be that the French chateau will be left someday to Joachim and not to Frederick? So maybe one of Joachim's kids want to become a winemaker?

A lot of possibilities, and some probably better than those they have in Denmark.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I like this. This suits Prince Joachim very well in all aspects as he already works in the military. Frederik and Mary is taking over more and more from Margrethe and in only 4 and 6 years Prince Christian and Princess Isabella are both 18 and will likely start to take on royal duties too, (combined with studies during the first years).
Prince Joachim must find a permanent role for himself while still being a Prince and attend certain functions. I think this is a part of that.

I wouldn't be surprised if they will relocate to France permanently or for many years while ofcourse having an apartment at Amalienborg for royal duties in Denmark and continue to use Schakenborg as their summer residence.

 

[Muhler]

Don't people have to be in the succession line to be Rigforstander ?

No. A Rigsforstander is almost always someone in the Line of Succession. But Queen Ingrid stepped in as Rigsforstander and there is nothing in the legislation to hinder Mary from being appointed. That's up to the Monarch.
It's only when Frederik is in the country that he is always appointed Regent.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[....] It will be a good move on all sides, for the argument convinces me that France and Denmark will want to work closer together when it comes to the military and having a high-ranking officer (who surely has the highest secrecy rank? ) in France is a good way for Denmark to assure their concerns are heard. Especially as Joachim as a son of the Head of the State of Denmark has direct access to the president of France, if he wants to. [....]

Eeerrrmmmm... I hope you realize that neither the Queen nor the Regent have any executive power at all? It is purely a protocollary position. It is the Danish Government which is the supreme authority, rubberstamped by the Crown. There is no any need to have a military rank to be a Regent. It is not even needed to know anything about the military: Denmark has highly professional Armed Forces with well-trained military staff.

 

[Somebody]

Interesting how many of you think or assume that the family is moving to Paris permanently and not for just a year (summer 2019 - summer 2020) as has been communicated. We'll have to wait and see...

 

[Muhler]

I like this news. Marie agreed to come to Denmark and then settled in Schakenborg for years and now she has a chance to live in her former home country. It will be a good move on all sides, for the argument convinces me that France and Denmark will want to work closer together when it comes to the military and having a high-ranking officer (who surely has the highest secrecy rank? As occasional Royal regent he should be able to know every secret of the military, no?) in France is a good way for Denmark to assure their concerns are heard. Especially as Joachim as a son of the Head of the State of Denmark has direct access to the president of France, if he wants to.
OTOH his children know they have to look forward to earning their own money but must be careful when they do that in Denmark, so bringing up little Henrik and Athena in Paris is a way to ensure they can study or learn a craft (they are Margrethe's grandchildren after all) without as much public curiosity as in Denmark.

It might be a possibility that Nicolai is moving with them. Maybe he has plans to only start out as a male model but has a deeper interest in fashion and could study at a fashion school or become an apprentice in a designer house? That's a lot easier as a prince in Paris than in Denmark.

And doesn't Marie's brothers live in or around Paris? Her father? Other relatives, who might have children without any "public profile", so Henrik and Athena can do things with them and not be hounded like they are when they spend time with Fred's kids?
Plus there might be a possibility for Marie to get payed work as a charity representative for international companies in Paris which she couldn't do in Copenhagen as the countries' princess. Joachim and Marie have to see Felix and their own two children to see through university till they an live off their own income. Plus Nicolai in case he wants to study at a private school. I am not sure how much money the family has, but could it be that the French chateau will be left someday to Joachim and not to Frederick? So maybe one of Joachim's kids want to become a winemaker?

A lot of possibilities, and some probably better than those they have in Denmark.

Yes, there are indeed a number of options open for J&M. They could very well do a Madeleine and life in France and still be more or less loosely connected to the DRF.
I don't believe they will settle in France permanently. But in fifteen years time I won't rule out that J&M retire to France. Because at that time Christian and Isabella (she is needed as a spare) will have begun to take on royal duties in earnest. And there will be "less room" for J&M so to speak.
As to your question about how wealthy J&M are, they are wealthy enough in my estimation that they will be able to maintain a higher middle class lifestyle for the rest of their lives without having to work.
They are certainly more wealthy than M&F! And including investments, house and properties in Southern Jutland I believe they are more wealthy than QMII.

Joachim is most unlikely to have the highest security clearance. He does know a lot of state and military secrets, but he is after all only a colonel of the reserves.
It's a need to know question.
Nor is QMII (and as such the Regent and whoever Rigsforstander is appointed) privy to the more sensitive secret. While she is the Head of state and commander in chief, there is no need to tell her her sensitive secrets until it is necessary.
Keep in mind that during WWII even the US President was not privy to certain details regarding a number of the most secret projects.

 

[Muhler]

Returning to the specific course Joachim is going to attend. It's going to be hard!
Six days a week, for a working week of some 70 hours!

Apart from that Joachim and his classmates will go on excursions both to military units in France, but also to military units stationed aboard. The class that started last year have been to French troops serving - and fighting - in one of the former French colonies in the Sahara region.
So Joachim will be away from his family from time to time - and probably at least once to a place that could be dangerous.
Of course Joachim is a more influential person than the average colonel of the reserves, so we may speculate as to whether he will "invite" his class to visit Danish troops abroad. - Danish troops are among other places stationed in Estonia, where AFAIK no French troops have been deployed. Estonia as well as the two other Baltic countries, sure is worth a strategic lecture. Or to Greenland? The strategic situation there is - interesting as well!

And now to Napoleon. Napoleon studied at École Militaire as well. To become an (expert) artillery officer.
Napoleon not only learned to command a battery, but studied how to best use artillery tactically as well as calculating trajectories, studying chemistry. - Gunpowder is not just gunpowder and it varies according to various conditions.
It was Napoleon's deployment of artillery outside the city of Toulon in the 1790's, that eventually forced the Royal Navy to withdraw and as such ended the British occupation of Toulon - and started Napoleon's career.
And anyone who has studied Napoleon, know that Napoleon in his core, remained an artillery officer all his life. Profiting very much from what he learned at the military academy.
- So remarkable careers have been founded at École Militaire!

 

[Isabelle de France]

I wish them a pleasant stay in France...
I think they will be very well received, with kindness and courtesy... quite the opposite of what they experience in Denmark, according to the hateful comments that I read in Danish newspapers

 

[Muhler]

I wish them a pleasant stay in France...
I think they will be very well received, with kindness and courtesy... quite the opposite of what they experience in Denmark, according to the hateful comments that I read in Danish newspapers

Congratulations on your first post, Isabelle de France.

Oh, don't worry. While Joachim is not the most popular member of the DRF, it doesn't mean people can't stand the sight of him or throw rotten fruits at him on streets, far from that. And many actually respect him, even if they don't see him as a someone they could personally be friends with. Joachim is not a man it's easy to like, until you really get to know him.
And our Marie is well liked, even is she isn't as popular as Mary, who is very popular and very respected.
But Marie is a friendly and easy to like person and that is very much a quality in her own right.

I don't know what papers you have been reading, but if it's Ekstra Bladet, those who comment there ought IMO be euthanized - it would be best for everyone, including themselves. ?
They are people who would complain about absolutely everything! If someone invented a free way to prevent hunger and malnutrition for ever, they would complain about that is well!

But I'm sure, and I hope they will have a very pleasant stay in France. - And as has been said before, who knows, they may eventually settle there once M&F's children have grown up.

 

[Isabelle de France]

thank you Muhler, sorry for my bad english, it's indeed Ekstra Bladet, and the comments are absolutely detestable...
the Danes blame Joachim for his "arrogance", in fact I think he is someone very serious and totally dedicated to his country but his "royal attitude" is misunderstood by the danish people...
he must suffer a lot from this, because whatever he does he is criticized... strangely, he looks a lot like his mother, which should please the Danes, but they prefer Frederik who looks a lot like his father (who has always been hated by the Danes...)