What is your opinion of Frederik and Mary

Originally Posted by Marengo

Thank you very much for bringing this one up Olga, I have been puzzled by it for a long time. My theory is that she is mostly (not exclusively) admired by anglosaxons and in anglosaxon magazines. If Mathilde, Mette-Marit etc would have been American/Australian/etc, they would have been more popular in those magazines as well. Add to that that the Danish CP couple is very pleasant to look at.
Please note that i do not dislike CP Mary, I am just wondering what makes her so fifferent from the other crownprincesses.

Marengo

I am Tasmanian so you must expect, that I would like to see a local girl succeed, in any role which is under constant scrutiny.

You wonder, what makes Mary different from the other princesses?? I say she is no different from the other princesses.
She is probably more photographed. There are only 20 million people in OZ which is way less than ten percent of U.S. or Britains populations so I' sure the Hello polls are not swayed by Australians.

Before mary came along, Frederik had a reputation and lived in a fairytale land (they even made a movie about just this not so long ago with Julia Stiles), so evryone was always wondering when this prince would marry.

I would suggest that the famous prince was always going to be in the limelight, no matter who he married.
It's just that when it happened, it seemed the perfect story, in that Mary didn't know who he was when she met him. That makes for a great fairytale story. Secondly she seems to be princess material and seems to be devoted to Frederik and everyone loves a nice story.
She has proven that she is down to earth which would endear her to a lot of people. The other princesses have there own unique qualities as well and I'm sure that they will have plenty of press to cover their stories as they progress.


Regards Jaques D.

[Margrethe II]

Originally Posted by Lady Jennifer

Nope. Neither was Frederik & Mary's. They might have shown clips on TV but thats about it (at least that I know of). They never show royal weddings here....or funeral's....except for Diana's.

WOW... I find that really interesting "LJ"

I would have thought that if anyone, the Spanish royal family (after the Windsors), would have recieved the most coverage.

Thank you for your prompt response.
"MII"

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Now, we are not really judging her I think. Just wondering why she seems to be so terribly popular while others,in the same position or even with 'better papers' seem to be less so (on this board anyway). However, I assume the popularity ratings of Mary, Mathilde, Maxima etc in their OWN countries will be more or less on the same level (though popularity is not everything, as Queen Beatrix liked to remind us of in one of her interviews).

I think Eliza has a point here as well, Mary is easier to relate to then Letizia and Maxima, who were already mingling in 'higher' social circles (different ones then where the average person is mingling with anyway) or of Mathilde who was born as a noble-woman (and still seems to be one in every inch).

yes I agree Eliza is making an excellent point: the other three royal girls were already living in rarefied circles, where bumping into a prince here or there could even be expected.

But one could argue that especially Letizia should be also somewhat easy to relate to: after all, she wasn't exactly born into the upper classes either, and worked her way up to get into those upper echelons. If we all worked that hard, we might have had the same fate too, non?!

Maxima is kindof a borderline case in that sense if you ask me. Of course, on the one hand, she owes much of her success to the fact she had a start as the daughter of an upper class family. On the other hand, the fact she had the banking career she did, especially venturing out of her Argentinian 'comfort zone' and move to a different country, the U.S., is probably a very different and brave track than her female Argentinian peers would take..

I guess you could argue that for Letizia to have the career she had, and for Maxima to have had hers in exceptionally competitive New York, both girls would have had to have more than your average amount in terms of drive, ambition and perseverance.
So perhaps for those two openly ambitious and exceptionally successful girls, it didn't come as that much of a surprise to the rest of us that they ended up with such high profile husbands. In other words: considering their high-profile/high re. success careers, Letizia and Maxima didn't seem the types of women to aim low exactly regarding their private lives either.

Wheras for Mary that's not so clear and perhaps that's why her 'fate' is more celebrated and accepted.. Because it just seems more of a coincidence, as Eliza and Marengo are saying, that she met and fell for a prince. Which is a very interesting theory: Mary was one of us: we could have been Mary. But again you could make that case also for Letizia and Maxima, albeit less so..

All the same, I'm myself much more partial to either Letizia or Maxima because those two seem way way more interesting on the content front.

If, say, I'd be invited to have a one -on-one chat over lunch with Mary, I wouldn't know for the life of me what I would talk about with the girl. (ok, perhaps about Ziggy the dog. I love dogs. Or our Royal Forums! Ok, or Australia vs. Denmark. But that's really it..
Whearas with Maxima or Letizia, I can think of a scala of topics these two would have fascinating viewpoints on. Even Mette Marit would seem a more interesting lunch companion: it's known she likes photography and art.

Of course, when all's said and done, Queen Beatrix has it right: popularity is not everything and anyway, it could change overtime.

[Adry]

Nothing :)
I prefer Fred & Mary instead of Felipe & Letizia

[azile]

Could it also be possible that Mary is simply more introverted than the other princesses?

As a psychologist, I use Myers-Briggs personality assessments a lot and I see every day how different people, depending on their degrees of extroversion or introversion, handle similar situations very differently.

My guess is that Mary's personality type is introverted. This type of personality is characterised with privacy, quietness, shyness and reluctance to openly share personal information. I think that these traits can OFTEN come across as or be confused with aloofness, snobbishness, arrogance etc.

As someone who is also introverted, I somewhat understand how uncomfortable it would be for me to have to "perform" every day in front of a global audience. If I were being interviwed, I would be TERRIFIED because I'm uncomfortable with that kind of exposure (even though I do A LOT of public speaking!). I'm quite sure that in an effort to answer questions WHILE STILL maintaining my personal sense of privacy, I would come across aloof, snobby AND arrogant. Those who know me well could tell you far that is from the truth!

When we look at Mary's public engagements, there is a warmth that comes across when she is meeting with people on a one-to-one basis. Maybe she's just more comfortable in that kind of setting?

I think I could have LOTS of things to discuss with Mary over lunch. I just think that we CAN NOT expect her to be the same as the vivacious Maximas or publicly eloquent Letizias.

Just my thoughts.... for whatever they are worth!

Eliza

[Meredith]

I have nothing against Mary or Fred (nor in favour, if I might add). They just don't say anything to me at all, just like Philippe and Mathilde. I see that they're hard working couples that are very much in love and produced beautiful children, but they just don't appeal to me, and I can't exactly pin point why.:)

I know that I can somewhat relate more to Maxima and Letizia because of our common Latin roots and the traditional Latin warmth, but I'm also a great fan of Mette-Marit's and she's escandinavian.

This is the kind of thing that it's impossible to explain. There's just one thing that bothers me, but it has nothing to do with Fred & Mary. It's that it always goes back to the Mary x Letizia camp, and this is really annoying

[RoyalEnquirer]

I think there is a definite preference when dealing with royalty. A lot of it has to do with what country you are from or are living in. Coming from America, I didn't know much about royalty at all. Just the Brits, but now that I have become interested in it I have pinpointed my favorites, Frederik & Mary and also Felipe & Letizia. I think that there are even things about both of these couples that I don't like! You are not going to like every little thing about every royal couple. It's a fact!

Emily

[capricorninin]

I think the big question to all those who are bothered about Mary remains that Mary with her ordinary past has become a princess. And I am not criticizing her. But the fact that a girl who was an average student and is honest enough to show her liking towards being beautiful is loved by her adopted country and continues to be adored by her native one seems to disturb a lot many people ( Believe me on some boards the unhealthy signs of being obsessed towards criticism and analysis towards this woman is disgusting). Somehow Mathilde due to her noble past, Maxima due to her cheerful disposition, Letizia due to her job in journalism and Mette due to the romanticism of the whole scenario can be accepted in our minds as princess materials but Mary is off on all these qulaities. She is not of noble blood, not very vivacious, not with a very high profile job and somehow Fred and Mary's courtship lacks the romanticism, the drama and the rebellion of Haakon and Mette. So why should people be interested?

The thing is that intelligence or the "so called" common touch is just one dimension of someone's personality. And not necessarily needed for the public to adore someone. What is more needed is an identification. Mary's entrance in public life was marked by affection and friendship from her husband, with the support of her family and in-laws which was so genuine. Somehow in Mary's case I think this was the shadowing factor among all. She is evidently adored by her husband, Her in-laws have displayed a fair amount of confidence in her to search for a role and bring in changes. And which in many eyes makes her appealing.

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by azile1710

Could it also be possible that Mary is simply more introverted than the other princesses?

Eliza, your thoughts are very interesting: it had never occured to me that Mary was/is perhaps SHY! Makes her more endearing imo! But it doesn't quite explain her popularity though..?

I'm interested in what you might want to talk with her about over lunch. I actually came up with another one: not sure she's into nature, but I am and I heard that due to some mysterious virus, the Tasmanian devil is having a hard time...members of the species are dying out left and right..
I wonder if Mary's evidently excellent PR could help fundraise for research purposes to find a cure for these poor creatures for example...

(by the way & off topic, your former post prompted me to think that you would make an excellent, well, psychologist! Turns out you are one! :)

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by Adry

Nothing :)
I prefer Fred & Mary instead of Felipe & Letizia

why the "instead of" comparison with F&L? Would you please elaborate? Are you comparing the two couples because they had similar wedding dates and stuff?

[suturegeisha]

Originally Posted by Margrethe II

I would think that surely TRH the Prince & Princess of Asturias would have a much larger following in the US than Mary & Frederik considering the very big Spanish and South American communities within the states..Was their wedding not shown on American TV or something of the sort?

"MII"

I know someone else told you that it wasn't broadcast here in the USA, but Felipe & Letizia's wedding was shown on Univision [the Hispanic channel] live [meaning it was shown here at about 3 or 4 AM, which may be why no one but me knew that it was on]. I have a satellite dish so I don't know if Univision is on cable or not- I think it is though.
And really, no royalty has a big following in the USA, save for the Windsors, and that's only when the National Enquirer finds something dishy to print about Prince William. And we also occasionally get bits of Grimaldi news, but that's only because of Princess Grace. So, sadly, our access is fairly limited- no TV shows, very few magazines, etc. All we have is the Internet and great forums like TRF. :-D

Adding my two cents to the conversation, I'm going to act puzzled like so many others. XD
I just don't get the appeal. Sure, they're a cute couple [Mary's hair is gorgeous]. They have a darling baby. They both seem reasonably well-informed and they have a brain sitting in that thing on their necks, which they use on a regular basis. They admittedly are not the hardest working of the Crown Princely couples [and my vote on that actually goes to Victoria of Sweden], but that's no crime. They seem to do a pretty good job representing Denmark- not spectacular, but pretty good.
I don't really care for Mary either way- I don't like her as a Crown Princess but I don't have some unfounded virulent hatred of her either. I'm not writing her off just yet- she needs time to find her place and role within the vast heirarchy of Europe's royalty. Perhaps I just need to warm to her, as like I warmed immensely to Maxima over this past year.
But! She does have a few areas I can see which could definitely use improvement:
-I just hate the way she holds her head- with her chin up and out. I don't know whether she realizes it or not, but it makes her look incredibly arrogant- like she's sticking her nose into the air, saying "I'm better than you." I'm pretty sure she doesn't mean to do that, but unfortunately to many people that's what it comes off as.
-She also appears to me to always look at the CAMERA and never at the PERSON. I have stacks of back issues of Majesty and Royalty with pictures of her at all sorts of events, and I have not yet seen one in which she is looking at the person she is talking to with any interest. Her attention always seems diverted. For example, in an article about her and Fred visiting Japan and planting a tree at a school, she has her arm around a young Japanese boy in the pictures. They are holding a shovel together, ready to plant the tree- the young boy is concentrating on trying to shovel the dirt, but she is looking directly at the camera! Not even bothering to attempt to hide the fact that she's not paying the little boy any attention at all. That- to me- just smacks of her representing herself, and not Denmark. Like, "LOOK AT MEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!" Ugh.
-I wish she's stop playing up the "fairytale" aspect of their relationship. I refuse to start another boneheaded Slip Inn argument, but fairytales are in books. She is lucky, certainly, and if she loves Fred like it appears she does then I am sincerely happy for her. The Grimm brothers, however, would be hard-pressed to turn that into a bestseller.

Fred comes across to me as kind of, well, dopey. XD I'm sure he's very nice, but I think he just kind of goes along with whatever, not really exerting any serious thought. On that note, I would really like to see him stop following Mary around like a lovesick puppy. It was cute for the first few years of their relationship, but now it's annoying and I, frankly, am tired of it. I'd like to see him look serious and dignified around his wife. You know, the way a future king of a country is supposed to look?

Now, everyone, those are simply my lowly opinions, and not to be taken as solid truths, obviously. :-D

Originally Posted by princess olga

... If, say, I'd be invited to have a one -on-one chat over lunch with Mary, I wouldn't know for the life of me what I would talk about with the girl. (ok, perhaps about Ziggy the dog. I love dogs.) Whearas with Maxima or Letizia, I can think of a scala of topics these two would have fascinating viewpoints on.

princess olga

Obviously, modesty is not a word in any dictionary at hand. You seem to have placed yourself on the same plateau as Maxima and Letizia. You feel that you could converse with them on a scale of topics but only talk about dogs with Mary.

Is it because a New Yorker only, is capable of understanding what drives these two women?? They should be honoured, that you feel that they are worthy of lunching with you.

I understand, that your post is subjective only and with out substance, but it is one which is intended to provoke.
It has another side to it, and that is to highlight the fact that there is a constant here, a predictability, which seems to indicate a shallowness of thought.

Hopefully that may improve as you develop, and I for one will be happy, and will be the first to acknowledge it.:)

regards Jaques D.

[royaltywatcher]

At the beginning of this thread someone said Mary was "prettified". That's the way I see her, as someone of ordinary appearance who by sheer determination, expenditure of funds, use of cosmetics, etc., has polished herself to suit her princess role. But it always seems like a role, like she's holding her breath. Sort of like she might gain 50 pounds and her Cinderella coach might turn back into a pumpkin at any time.

And Fred seems weak and ineffectual. He seems like a boy. If he were stronger, it might make Mary seem softer by comparison.

[RoyalEnquirer]

Originally Posted by capricorninin

I think the big question to all those who are bothered about Mary remains that Mary with her ordinary past has become a princess. And I am not criticizing her. But the fact that a girl who was an average student and is honest enough to show her liking towards being beautiful is loved by her adopted country and continues to be adored by her native one seems to disturb a lot many people ( Believe me on some boards the unhealthy signs of being obsessed towards criticism and analysis towards this woman is disgusting). Somehow Mathilde due to her noble past, Maxima due to her cheerful disposition, Letizia due to her job in journalism and Mette due to the romanticism of the whole scenario can be accepted in our minds as princess materials but Mary is off on all these qulaities. She is not of noble blood, not very vivacious, not with a very high profile job and somehow Fred and Mary's courtship lacks the romanticism, the drama and the rebellion of Haakon and Mette. So why should people be interested?

Interesting take on things. I think it is fairly true. I think that the idea of a Prince marrying a blue-blood is well received, but I also think that usually comes off as an arranged marriage. I see marrying a commoner as more of a sign of love. Though I suppose it could also be seen by others as the princess in waiting being a gold digger. It's very hard to tell, but from what I've seen, read, and heard, Frederik & Mary are very much in love. They had a three year courtship before announcing an engagement. If she was really that money or power hungry she would have been a little more persistant. She would also try to suck up more limelight than she already does.

Originally Posted by royaltywatcher

At the beginning of this thread someone said Mary was "prettified". That's the way I see her, as someone of ordinary appearance who by sheer determination, expenditure of funds, use of cosmetics, etc., has polished herself to suit her princess role. But it always seems like a role, like she's holding her breath. Sort of like she might gain 50 pounds and her Cinderella coach might turn back into a pumpkin at any time.

And Fred seems weak and ineffectual. He seems like a boy. If he were stronger, it might make Mary seem softer by comparison.

royalwatcher

That was a blunder wasn't it hey?? Calling Mary determined. What a great trait for a princess. You say that it always "seems like a role". Well it is a role. LOL What did you think it was???

Well done!! OHH! Ok then, now you have blown it, bringing in cinderella coaches sort of makes your post a bit of a joke. Maybe thats what you wanted though, to make a joke post and here's me thinking it was a serious post.

I should be more quick on the uptake hey???
Let me know when you are going to post something serious, so I will know how to regard it.

Love your humour.:)

jaques D.

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by Jaques Demolay

princess olga

Obviously, modesty is not a word in any dictionary at hand. You seem to have placed yourself on the same plateau as Maxima and Letizia. You feel that you could converse with them on a scale of topics but only talk about dogs with Mary.

Is it because a New Yorker only, is capable of understanding what drives these two women?? They should be honoured, that you feel that they are worthy of lunching with you.

I understand, that your post is subjective only and with out substance, but it is one which is intended to provoke.
It has another side to it, and that is to highlight the fact that there is a constant here, a predictability, which seems to indicate a shallowness of thought.

Hopefully that may improve, and I for one will be happy, and will be the first to acknowledge it.:)


regards Jaques D.

Dear Jacques D.
(the D. stands for 'Donaldson' I take it?)

I don't think you read my post: if I put myself on any "plateau", to use your words, it would be on Mary's: I said so explicitly in the post.

But that doesn't mean I would automatically find it as interesting to have the hypothetical lunch with Mary as with one of the others (based on what I know about them: as my knowledge stems from the media, I do not know for certain obviously).

Again, from what I know about these people, for example Letizia and Maxima seem more interesting people to talk to. That's all.
How 'immodest' is that to state that here in all honesty?! It has nothing to do with 'worthiness'. (And by the way, anyway 'modesty' is as far as I know, not a requirement for participation in the Forum.)

Slightly off topic, I think your definitions are interesting: call me 'shallow' all you want, but I don't agree it is shallow to try to make some sense of the world we live in, which is all I'm trying to do. And as for 'trying to provoke', this is a discussion board, remember? According to your definitions, all we should express here is something along the lines of: "Mary and Fred are great and sweet. The End." Now <that> in my book is shallow, my friend.

(P.s. next time you want to air your judgment on me, please message me privately: otherwise things get terribly off topic. Oh and one more thing: I'm not a new yorker.)

[RoyalEnquirer]

Originally Posted by royaltywatcher

And Fred seems weak and ineffectual. He seems like a boy. If he were stronger, it might make Mary seem softer by comparison.

I beg to differ. Prince Frederik isn't the tallest of Europe's Princes, which could make him seem smaller, but he is far from weak. I bought an episode of A&E's Meet the Royals featuring the Princes of Europe (excluding Will & Harry), and it stated that Frederik is an outdoorsman who spent a month in Greenland to toughen himself up and is also a trained frogman for the Danish Frogman Corps, which he had to skydive for in order to achieve. Here is an explanation from http://www.answers.com as to what a frogman is:

The Danish Frogman Corps (Frømandskorpset) is an elite special forces frogman corps in the Royal Danish Navy. The corps was set up on June 17, 1957 with help from the British SBS. Its men were trained at the Government Diving School at Flådestation Holmen in Copenhagen. It became independent in 1970.

It performs special-force type work on land also, including anti-terrorist and anti-criminal work. Training courses are conducted at the Torpedostation at Kongsøre.

The corps is known to have served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark has completed his eduction in the corps, under the pseudonym "Pingo".