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  #1141  
Old 07-11-2006, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Couldn't agree more. Frankly, what does it say of a person to have a friend like this, someone who puts her foot in her mouth and flirts with the press at virtually every opportunity, milking the friendship to death publicly?! Yuk! Compare that to the very discreet friends of, say, Maxima. No comparison if you ask me, those people have been utterly discreet and supportive of Maxima, and that's what a friend should do, not mint the relationship!
As far as I am concerned Mary also married Fred for the money and the status. There may have been love between them but if Fred was a carpenter or a plumber I am pretty sure Mary would not have married him. Therefore if Amber patty uses her relationship with Mary to make a few dollars like you just said above then this statement would be quite true "birds of a feather flock together". Meaning Amber who is Mary's best friend is just like Mary in the sense that she will take advantage of an opportunity to make herself richer and more famous.

I am not saying it is wrong or right but they have been best friends for many years and I would say they think in a similar fashion. Take that as you please but a woman has got to do what a woman has got to do to survive!
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  #1142  
Old 07-11-2006, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Couldn't agree more. Frankly, what does it say of a person to have a friend like this, someone who puts her foot in her mouth and flirts with the press at virtually every opportunity, milking the friendship to death publicly?! Yuk! Compare that to the very discreet friends of, say, Maxima. No comparison if you ask me, those people have been utterly discreet and supportive of Maxima, and that's what a friend should do, not mint the relationship!
Friends and friendships change, and if you don't grow and change together, then it's easy to grow apart and lead separate lives. Amber may have very well been a good friend to Mary at one point. Mary's life has changed a lot in the last couple of years and if Amber felt distant from her friend's new life, or didn't feel included in it as she once was, that might cause her to turn on Mary and use her friendship with Mary to further her own means.

I imagine that as someone who was close to Mary pre-Frederik, and was then asked to be a bridesmaid in Denmark's biggest wedding of the year if not the decade, I imagine then that she might've been quite hurt that she was also not asked to be Christian's godmother. And if Amber didn't feel supported or included by Mary, then all the easier for her to turn around and snub Mary by being not so discreet.

It takes both sides to foster and ensure that a friendship changes along with life. The Mary who befriended Amber initially may be a different Mary now and if Amber feels excluded or animosity towards her friend, then why not sell out their former friendship to get herself 15 minutes of fame. Mary couldn't have predicted that her friend would turn out this way, could she?
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  #1143  
Old 07-11-2006, 11:34 PM
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Very true, Alexandria. Besides, Amber is not Mary's only friend. Hamish Campbell (I think that's his name ) seems to have remained devoted and discreet about his friendship with Mary. He even seems to be very good friends with Frederick because I read (in one of Mary's unofficial biographies) that Campbell even went sailing with Frederick in Australia before they got married. I'm sure there are other friends we haven't even heard of because they are good friends and believe in discretion.
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  #1144  
Old 07-12-2006, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexy
"birds of a feather flock together". Meaning Amber who is Mary's best friend is just like Mary in the sense that she will take advantage of an opportunity to make herself richer and more famous.
From personal experience, I am not like my friends at all. My social group consists of completely different personalities. I wouldn't do or think half the things my friends would, and the same for them. So in my opinion, I don't think one can make such a generalisation.

Just because Amber wanted to make a quick buck and bask in the fame doesn't necessarily mean Mary would do the same if the roles were reversed and Amber was the princess. It is a possibility, but not an automatic fact.
  #1145  
Old 07-12-2006, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexy
There may have been love between them but if Fred was a carpenter or a plumber I am pretty sure Mary would not have married him.
It's interesting that I think it's just the other way round: carpenters and plumbers can be interesting, nice, well-read people who make a decent living out of their business. Who knows if Mary wouldn't have said much more eager "yes" if she had fallen in love with a plumber? Because the consequences would have been much less difficult if it turned out that the marriage doesn't work.

IMHO the princess made it very clear in her pre-wedding interviews that she knew exactly what marrying Frederick would mean: that there are not only advantages but severe disadvantages in such an august position.

But maybe I'm just thinking this way because I would have said "no" to the proposal of a prince as I enjoy watching the Royals but don't feel that living their lifestyle would be pleasant. While the fact that my husband has carpentry as a hobby has shown me the advantages of a liaison with a carpenter: the furniture I now live in is soo beautiful. To commission this kind of work from a professional carpenter, one must be a prince's or millionaire's wife...
  #1146  
Old 07-12-2006, 06:12 AM
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to lexy:

For the reason you think Mary married Fred, I would NOT have married Fred.. I think she did not see it as something very glamourous, but as a sacrafice, brr.. being in the media all the time, having no privacy, having no real freedom to do what you like, to have your whole year planned, to know you are a rolemodel... I would have said for that reason no, I can not imagine someone who would say happy yes to that...
  #1147  
Old 07-12-2006, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexy
As far as I am concerned Mary also married Fred for the money and the status. There may have been love between them but if Fred was a carpenter or a plumber I am pretty sure Mary would not have married him. Therefore if Amber patty uses her relationship with Mary to make a few dollars like you just said above then this statement would be quite true "birds of a feather flock together". Meaning Amber who is Mary's best friend is just like Mary in the sense that she will take advantage of an opportunity to make herself richer and more famous.

I am not saying it is wrong or right but they have been best friends for many years and I would say they think in a similar fashion. Take that as you please but a woman has got to do what a woman has got to do to survive!
Being a good friend to another person does not mean to share all the principles, ideas and values. Any woman who marries a prince unless she is a princess herself will be judged the same way you are doing with Mary, even Marie Chantal of Greece (whose family is multimillionaire) when she got married with prince Pavlos, was said to have gotten married with him just for the fact that he is a prince. So needless to say, unless you know Mary personally and know her true feelings for her husband, this judgement is as valid as saying that Mathilde got married with her husband for the status and the money, same thing for Maxima and Letizia, which can be true for all of them but at the same time very unprovable.
  #1148  
Old 07-12-2006, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrjam
to lexy:

For the reason you think Mary married Fred, I would NOT have married Fred.. I think she did not see it as something very glamourous, but as a sacrafice, brr.. being in the media all the time, having no privacy, having no real freedom to do what you like, to have your whole year planned, to know you are a rolemodel... I would have said for that reason no, I can not imagine someone who would say happy yes to that...
Well...I have said yes for sure!!!! And like me many other girls would say yes for sure!!!!!!!
  #1149  
Old 07-12-2006, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrjam
to lexy:

For the reason you think Mary married Fred, I would NOT have married Fred.. I think she did not see it as something very glamourous, but as a sacrafice, brr.. being in the media all the time, having no privacy, having no real freedom to do what you like, to have your whole year planned, to know you are a rolemodel... I would have said for that reason no, I can not imagine someone who would say happy yes to that...
Like mirrjam, I wouldn't have said yes if I didn't love the prince. I should imagine that it would be a very lonely life if you didn't have the love and support of your husband and the families. No amount of pretty dresses, glamorous evenings or notoriety would make it worth being lonely and sad.
  #1150  
Old 07-12-2006, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Australian
From personal experience, I am not like my friends at all. My social group consists of completely different personalities. I wouldn't do or think half the things my friends would, and the same for them. So in my opinion, I don't think one can make such a generalisation.

Just because Amber wanted to make a quick buck and bask in the fame doesn't necessarily mean Mary would do the same if the roles were reversed and Amber was the princess. It is a possibility, but not an automatic fact.
i agree that friends dont have to be all that similar but i find that i only develop true frienships with people who share my values.

you may be different from your friends but i am sure you are turned off by people with bad morals, while you will be polite and sometimes hang out with them, ultimately you don't allow them to get too close.
  #1151  
Old 07-12-2006, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyemma
i agree that friends dont have to be all that similar but i find that i only develop true frienships with people who share my values.

you may be different from your friends but i am sure you are turned off by people with bad morals, while you will be polite and sometimes hang out with them, ultimately you don't allow them to get too close.
That is true (if you are able to recognize those differences), it is probably that Mary never expected her friend to act like this, she wouldnt have make her bridesmaid.

I think people (even best friends or partners) can give lots of surprises even if we think we know them deeply.
  #1152  
Old 07-12-2006, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrjam
to lexy:

For the reason you think Mary married Fred, I would NOT have married Fred.. I think she did not see it as something very glamourous, but as a sacrafice, brr.. being in the media all the time, having no privacy, having no real freedom to do what you like, to have your whole year planned, to know you are a rolemodel... I would have said for that reason no, I can not imagine someone who would say happy yes to that...
Not even you believe that...while there is nothing wrong with aiming high, I think, she did not see this marriage as a sacrifice! Not glamorous?? Being a princess is not glamorous? The first thing she did was to pose for a magazine in designers clothes...what a sacrifice. She is living the life that many people can only dream of...
  #1153  
Old 07-12-2006, 11:35 AM
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The real reason Mary married Frederic we will never know, nevertheless we like to think that she married him because she loves him!!!And we keep thinking this way until something turns this on!
  #1154  
Old 07-12-2006, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biboquinhas
The real reason Mary married Frederic we will never know, nevertheless we like to think that she married him because she loves him!!!And we keep thinking this way until something turns this on!
total agree with you.
  #1155  
Old 07-12-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxsteve
Not even you believe that...while there is nothing wrong with aiming high, I think, she did not see this marriage as a sacrifice! Not glamorous?? Being a princess is not glamorous? The first thing she did was to pose for a magazine in designers clothes...what a sacrifice. She is living the life that many people can only dream of...
There are people, you know, who had due to sucess in their job not only a glimpse into the life of the upper class but experienced first hand how it is to be at the receiving end of the interest of people who want to take advantage of you. Who's to trust any longer? Where's the place to be if you just want to be "normal"? Where to go on the morning you simply want to have some fun without bothering to don make-up and chic clothes? Who will be the next to take a picture of you and sell it when all you want is to enjoy life a little bit? To whom can you turn when you want to talk about something private which you don't want to read in the press about?

People who grew up in this kind of golden cage normally have made friends who are in a similar position: Kate Middleton eg went to the same school Sting sent his daughters to and Princess Beatrice is enrolled at the moment - surely they all met girls there whom to trust that they won't talk to the media because they all know how this life is being led? Who does Mary know in Denmark who is really trustworthy?

Many people think that it's a dream come true to suddenly become princess. Well, for Diana Spencer and Sarah Ferguson it turned into a nightmare. And while these two stayed in the limelight even after the divorce and were/ has been hunted by the paparazzi, other people dream of being like them but sit down comfortably in their gardens, wearing just a bikini on a hot summer day and don't have to think for a moment that there might be someone intruding their privacy and taking advantage of them on using them as an unpayed fotomodel.

This is something a lot of people never think of: while being rich and wearing nice clothes is surely fun if you can stay a private person it might well turn into a nightmare once you are famous in addition. Once people stare at you. Once people never know how to behave around you. Once people feel such an enormous gap between you and them that no matter what you do, you can't reach them and make them behave like normal people. I even think that the longer you live this life the more cynical you get towards the people you meet. Because you experience more disappointments and more little acts of treason year after year.

Just think about the people here on the list who believe Mary is just a golddigger. Would they tell her that face to face if they ever met her? No, they wouldn't. But Mary surely knows that she is not everybody's darling. She only needs to read an internet forum - and this is one of the nicer ones when it comes to her.

She is not stupid. She worked in PR. Gosh, she must have known so very well what she went into when she said yes. And I don't think for a moment that prince Frederick is stupid. He grew up with the knowledge that he was one of the finest prizes of the marriage-mart. He had lots and lots of girlfriends who weren't the "one". Should he have been so blind on choosing Mary if she was just in love with her new position and not him, the man behind the crown? No way!

I like the pictures when Mary and Frederick have outings with Mary's parents. For many students it would be a great honor to be able to drink a beer in private with a professor. So I guess Mary's father has known the whole play of flattering people with power in order to get something from them very well. I believe he is a great help to his daughter and is able to react normally around Frederick. I'm glad for her that her parents are in Denmark at the moment. I'm glad Mary has Caroline Heering (of "the" Heerings) now to introduce her to people who may hopefully treat her as just a normal and nice person. I hope she meets professional people on her public engagements who are so content with what they are and what they achieved that they offer a good conversation to the princess on treating her like an equal. And I hope that she isn't sad when she thinks back to the freedom she once enjoyed when nobody had ever heard of a Miss Donaldson from Tasmania.

But there are things some people will never understand because they never experienced how things work once you get an elevated position. So they only see the gilded facade and not the real problems and hardships behind it.
  #1156  
Old 07-12-2006, 02:40 PM
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Excellent observations Jo!

Its amazing how people think (myself included sometimes) that just because you have a lot of money, great clothes, and travel the world that you have a great life. Mary has problems just like us. Maybe not the same ones but problems nonetheless.

How many people on this board know someone who doesn't like YOU and they have never even spoken to you. They made an assumption about you based upon the friends you hang with, they way you walk, talk or even dress. Its like that for Mary, Letizia, Maxima, Beatrice, except its times 20! Unless its the friends that you have known for a long time and a few new ones that you let into your circle...they never know who to trust.

In regards to Amber Petty...we will never know the story unless she decides to tell it. But lets face it...Amber lives in Australia and Mary in Denmark...of course they don't see each other alot but who says that they still don't talk. Sometimes you outgrow friends...its a part of life.
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  #1157  
Old 07-12-2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
There are people, you know, who had due to sucess in their job not only a glimpse into the life of the upper class but experienced first hand how it is to be at the receiving end of the interest of people who want to take advantage of you. Who's to trust any longer? Where's the place to be if you just want to be "normal"? Where to go on the morning you simply want to have some fun without bothering to don make-up and chic clothes? Who will be the next to take a picture of you and sell it when all you want is to enjoy life a little bit? To whom can you turn when you want to talk about something private which you don't want to read in the press about?

People who grew up in this kind of golden cage normally have made friends who are in a similar position: Kate Middleton eg went to the same school Sting sent his daughters to and Princess Beatrice is enrolled at the moment - surely they all met girls there whom to trust that they won't talk to the media because they all know how this life is being led? Who does Mary know in Denmark who is really trustworthy?

Many people think that it's a dream come true to suddenly become princess. Well, for Diana Spencer and Sarah Ferguson it turned into a nightmare. And while these two stayed in the limelight even after the divorce and were/ has been hunted by the paparazzi, other people dream of being like them but sit down comfortably in their gardens, wearing just a bikini on a hot summer day and don't have to think for a moment that there might be someone intruding their privacy and taking advantage of them on using them as an unpayed fotomodel.

This is something a lot of people never think of: while being rich and wearing nice clothes is surely fun if you can stay a private person it might well turn into a nightmare once you are famous in addition. Once people stare at you. Once people never know how to behave around you. Once people feel such an enormous gap between you and them that no matter what you do, you can't reach them and make them behave like normal people. I even think that the longer you live this life the more cynical you get towards the people you meet. Because you experience more disappointments and more little acts of treason year after year.

Just think about the people here on the list who believe Mary is just a golddigger. Would they tell her that face to face if they ever met her? No, they wouldn't. But Mary surely knows that she is not everybody's darling. She only needs to read an internet forum - and this is one of the nicer ones when it comes to her.

She is not stupid. She worked in PR. Gosh, she must have known so very well what she went into when she said yes. And I don't think for a moment that prince Frederick is stupid. He grew up with the knowledge that he was one of the finest prizes of the marriage-mart. He had lots and lots of girlfriends who weren't the "one". Should he have been so blind on choosing Mary if she was just in love with her new position and not him, the man behind the crown? No way!

I like the pictures when Mary and Frederick have outings with Mary's parents. For many students it would be a great honor to be able to drink a beer in private with a professor. So I guess Mary's father has known the whole play of flattering people with power in order to get something from them very well. I believe he is a great help to his daughter and is able to react normally around Frederick. I'm glad for her that her parents are in Denmark at the moment. I'm glad Mary has Caroline Heering (of "the" Heerings) now to introduce her to people who may hopefully treat her as just a normal and nice person. I hope she meets professional people on her public engagements who are so content with what they are and what they achieved that they offer a good conversation to the princess on treating her like an equal. And I hope that she isn't sad when she thinks back to the freedom she once enjoyed when nobody had ever heard of a Miss Donaldson from Tasmania.

But there are things some people will never understand because they never experienced how things work once you get an elevated position. So they only see the gilded facade and not the real problems and hardships behind it.
Yeah, yeah, these are all good points, but please! Who would turn it down? No one, not even an intelligent, insightful person (and I think you give Mary too much credit there) would try to anticipate all of the downside of life as a princess. I'm sure she was duly warned, and of course, she dated Frederick for long enough to have an idea, but she knew a good bargain when she saw it. And by the way I don't think that's a bad thing.

The things you mention are inconveniences. The truth is, most of us mere mortals have only a few people we can trust. Most of us have only a few really close friends. There are people who would not be able to deal with always having to look good in public, but there are those for whom dressing up is natural and fun. (I know women myself that would not dream of leaving their homes for anything without their makeup perfectly applied.) As far as freedom goes, she loses some forms of freedom but gains others--the freedom to travel and see things that most people will never see, the freedom to learn languages, etc.

The only thing that would give me pause is the possibility of divorce, because that is a humiliation for a woman that marries into a royal family that it really isn't for a woman in an ordinary situation.

Mary, an ordinary middle-class woman from Austrailia, will be Queen of Denmark, the oldest continuous monarchy in the world. Her child will be King. What more can you say?
  #1158  
Old 07-12-2006, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Excellent observations Jo!

Its amazing how people think (myself included sometimes) that just because you have a lot of money, great clothes, and travel the world that you have a great life. Mary has problems just like us. Maybe not the same ones but problems nonetheless.

How many people on this board know someone who doesn't like YOU and they have never even spoken to you. They made an assumption about you based upon the friends you hang with, they way you walk, talk or even dress. Its like that for Mary, Letizia, Maxima, Beatrice, except its times 20! Unless its the friends that you have known for a long time and a few new ones that you let into your circle...they never know who to trust.

In regards to Amber Petty...we will never know the story unless she decides to tell it. But lets face it...Amber lives in Australia and Mary in Denmark...of course they don't see each other alot but who says that they still don't talk. Sometimes you outgrow friends...its a part of life.
I respect your observations, but disagree. I dont' believe for a minute that her life is soooooo difficult...she has help, she is the center of attention, she is well taken care of, her son is privileged, and her father?...no I would not want to have a beer with him...I don't get your point. Regardless, I think you are making her a heroine. She is not.
  #1159  
Old 07-12-2006, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxsteve
I respect your observations, but disagree. I dont' believe for a minute that her life is soooooo difficult...she has help, she is the center of attention, she is well taken care of, her son is privileged, and her father?...no I would not want to have a beer with him...I don't get your point. Regardless, I think you are making her a heroine. She is not.
I never called Mary a heroine..and please don't speak for me :)

You are totally missing my point..and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I was speaking on the aspect of Mary's friends. I said nothing about her son, or having a beer with her father. I simply said...that yes Mary does have a lot of material thing btu who is to say she doesn't have problems. I am not comparing her to a single mother with two jobs and no way to pay the bills or an average family from anywhere in the world. I simply said that she may problems of which we have knowledge. No one on this board does.

The point of my email was the add to what Jo said about friends and Mary's position.
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  #1160  
Old 07-12-2006, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
I simply said...that yes Mary does have a lot of material thing btu who is to say she doesn't have problems.
Zonk, you exactly touched the point: Mary has now all material things in the world at her disposal. For some people this is all they believe to be needed to be happy. But one can get used to it. And find out then that there has to be more than just finacial security. Mary has accepted a very restricted life in exchange for status - and duty! I hope she won't ever feel that she needs something she can't ever have - while she could have had it if she hadn't married her prince. There are more things between heaven and earth... (to quote Shakespeare who made quite some money out of the problems of princesses and their princes! )
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