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  #1061  
Old 06-15-2006, 08:57 PM
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I suppose--and this holds for all the royals--that I don't know if I would really consider public appearances 'work' by any normal standard. Getting dressed and made up perfectly, waving and smiling, posing for photographers, shaking hands, and eating a meal or cutting a ribbon, even giving a short speech that was probably written for you--to me this might be a bit tiring, but I would never refer to it as real work.
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  #1062  
Old 06-15-2006, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinika
I suppose--and this holds for all the royals--that I don't know if I would really consider public appearances 'work' by any normal standard. Getting dressed and made up perfectly, waving and smiling, posing for photographers, shaking hands, and eating a meal or cutting a ribbon, even giving a short speech that was probably written for you--to me this might be a bit tiring, but I would never refer to it as real work.
Actually, I really beg to differ here. Professional networking is done by diplomats all over the globe, and yes it's considered work. Just think of these royals as ambassadors of sorts, and spokespeople, as well. It's all about relationships, and keeping those relationships well oiled. Not a job? <Removed personal anecdote-Mandy> moreover, those royals who take what they do seriously, even tend to plan ahead and do a ton of homework to prepare their visits.

I'm not saying I'm 100% pro-royalty as a concept. But I'm convinced if you could be a fly on the wall on an ordinairy day in the life of, say, queen Beatrix, you'd agree with me being a monarch is a real job, and a 24/7/365 one at that.

Where I totally agree is on whether these heirs-to-thrones are throwing in enough weight, enough hours, for us critical royal watchers. And I agree the jury is still out on that one. I for one lean towards the opinion that Fred of Denmark is kindof a lazy dude, who, in my opinion, would be better off with a nine to five gig at either the navy or some bank or other or even some biz dev gig for a truly Danish furniture design company, say, or a wind mill farm, than annoying us with his idleness.
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  #1063  
Old 06-16-2006, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinika
I suppose--and this holds for all the royals--that I don't know if I would really consider public appearances 'work' by any normal standard. Getting dressed and made up perfectly, waving and smiling, posing for photographers, shaking hands, and eating a meal or cutting a ribbon, even giving a short speech that was probably written for you--to me this might be a bit tiring, but I would never refer to it as real work.
True public appearances weren't work by normal standards but they're still work just not what we're used to.
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  #1064  
Old 06-16-2006, 02:28 PM
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I think Mary has a very weak personality so that she can not become a good queen, Fred is also like a teenage boy who is playing around....
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  #1065  
Old 06-16-2006, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
I think Mary has a very weak personality so that she can not become a good queen, Fred is also like a teenage boy who is playing around....
What makes you say that Mary has a "very weak personality" or that Frederik is like a "teenage boy who is playing around?" Do you have some examples of this?
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  #1066  
Old 06-16-2006, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
I think Mary has a very weak personality so that she can not become a good queen, Fred is also like a teenage boy who is playing around....
I courteously disagree. :)
Prince Frederick was prepared since he was a child to the duties he will one day inherit, just like his mother was prepared since she was declared her father's heir. But, every person has a different personality and even when crown princes do have a similar training since childhood, each one has a very unique character that comes out of that mold. That's what sets him apart. He seems to be spontaneous, enjoys life to the limits he has according to his position and he seems to be quite a nice and polite gentleman from what we have seem on his pictures and news links.

Princess Mary, on the other hand, was not born to be a head of state or a high profile member of a Royal Family in a distant country. Yet she has adapted to those duties admirably and, when compared to Frederick, in a very short amount of time. And add parenthood to those duties and you get a young couple that is not much different in public from any young working couple raising a family.

I think both are doing quite fine and are good role models on how future monarchs adapt to today's demands from society.
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  #1067  
Old 06-16-2006, 03:17 PM
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I would never think Mary has a weak character, a woman that is able to achieve all the things she has done in few years is not weak at all. A weak personality would never be able to perform all the changes she has gone through and looks so calm, relaxed and adapted.
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  #1068  
Old 06-16-2006, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
I would never think Mary has a weak character, a woman that is able to achieve all the things she has done in few years is not weak at all. A weak personality would never be able to perform all the changes she has gone through and looks so calm, relaxed and adapted.
Royalty started when strong leaders from the past were able to pass on their legacy, and domains, to their offspring. The original ancient Kings and Queens were but simple mortals like we all in here but their offspring had that head start, that new preparation to take over the duties of their parents and continue their established dynasties. The same applies to industries or businesses controlled by families. The children are prepared to take over the duties of their parents and pass it to their own offspring.

Mary became Princess Mary and showed us all that those ancient leadership qualities are in all of us, maybe dormant maybe awake, but they are in there somewhere. And she has stepped up to the challenge quite well.
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  #1069  
Old 06-16-2006, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
What makes you say that Mary has a "very weak personality" or that Frederik is like a "teenage boy who is playing around?" Do you have some examples of this?
This in my impression from what I have seen from her up to now. Anyways why don't you ask the same question from people who writes positive things about the royals in this board. I have noticed when someone posts negative opinions in this forum, it will be deleted or at least critisized. Is this forum made only for writing sweet things ?
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  #1070  
Old 06-16-2006, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
This in my impression from what I have seen from her up to now. Anyways why don't you ask the same question from people who writes positive things about the royals in this board. I have noticed when someone posts negative opinions in this forum, it will be deleted or at least critisized. Is this forum made only for writing sweet things ?
That is not the case at all Iwona. You will see only a few posts above yours that I have made a strong argument for points being made on both sides. See my posts #1041 and #1047, so I am asking the same of you: To provide examples of when you think Mary had a "weak" personality or when Frederik acted in a manner more fitting of a teenage boy.
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  #1071  
Old 06-16-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
This in my impression from what I have seen from her up to now. Anyways why don't you ask the same question from people who writes positive things about the royals in this board. I have noticed when someone posts negative opinions in this forum, it will be deleted or at least critisized. Is this forum made only for writing sweet things ?
I can't speak for Alexandria but I can say I have experienced myself she does her best to be neutral and fair with everyone. Even with me when we disagree in things here and there. And I have experienced deleting many times and learned from it some things are to be thought first before before the fingers hit the keystrokes. And sometimes I go back and delete my own posts after thinking them throughly.

But I can speak for myself, if I say something positive about a royal is after I examine the situation they are that we read about. I did criticize her choice of wardrobe in another thread, but that's just a comment in fashion. If I don't like what she wore I just have to say it, and sometimes with my notorious light humor that often gets me in trouble. But one thing is fashion and another one personality and will power. I do hold her, Princess Mary, in high esteem because I could not imagine how I or anyone I know could do such an huge change in her enviroment and lifestyle and still comes out shinning that million dollar smile of hers. Come to think of it, she does reminds me a bit of the intro to the Mary Tyler Moore show.
And on that last light note I'll paddle my way to calmer thread waters :)
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  #1072  
Old 06-16-2006, 04:00 PM
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Evidence for criticism, that's what you meant? This is my feeling and I don't see any reason to mention the evidence, people can agree or disagree. Actually in forums people posts their own feeling and opinions about someone, and it should not necessarily be supported by an "evidence". With this manner people who say good things should also mention their evidence and examples. Also when someone says : "X is beautiful" it is her/his feeling and may be I don't agree.
Anyways, if everything negative is against the forums policy and should be justified here, I am in wrong place and won't post here again.
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  #1073  
Old 06-16-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
Evidence for criticism, that's what you meant? This is my feeling and I don't see any reason to mention the evidence, people can agree or disagree. Actually in forums people posts their own feeling and opinions about someone, and it should not necessarily be supported by an "evidence". With this manner people who say good things should also mention their evidence and examples. Also when someone says : "X is beautiful" it is her/his feeling and may be I don't agree.
Anyways, if everything negative is against the forums policy and should be justified here, I am in wrong place and won't post here again.
Iwona, I don't think anyone would expect you to back up your opinion by "evidence", as opinions clearly sometimes are just that: they're in the eye of the beholder, as the saying goes.
But, if you make a statement about someone and tell us discussion partners, which is what we are here, you are of the opinion that royal x, y or z is ugly, lazy, what have you, we are all interested in learning why you think this is the case. I for one have the distinct impression that Fred of Denmark works part-time, at best, and I'm able to express that here. However, I also have to be open at the same time for any arguments, or even evidence, to the contrary. Because at the end of the day, I might be misinformed and the reality could be that Fred is the hardest working royal East of London (that will be the day, in my opinion! Not!

I do however agree that sometimes, posts that just gush how beautiful royal x, y, z is, can get boring and tiring...in my opinion!

I've also learned, by trial and error, that yes you can express criticisms her eon the forum, but it depends on how you phrase these criticisms and whether you are willing to elaborate a bit on the thinking behind your opinion.
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  #1074  
Old 06-16-2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
I can't speak for Alexandria but I can say I have experienced myself she does her best to be neutral and fair with everyone. Even with me when we disagree in things here and there. And I have experienced deleting many times and learned from it some things are to be thought first before before the fingers hit the keystrokes. And sometimes I go back and delete my own posts after thinking them throughly.

But I can speak for myself, if I say something positive about a royal is after I examine the situation their are in that we read about. I did criticize her choice of wardrobe in another thread, but that's just a comment in fashion. If I don't like what she wore I just have to say it, and sometimes with my notorious light humor that often gets me in trouble. But one thing are shows and another one personality and will power. I do hold her, Princess Mary, in high esteem because I could not imagine how I or anyone I know could do such an huge change in her enviroment and lifestyle and still comes out shinning that million dollar smile of hers. Come to think of it, she does reminds me a bit of the intro to the Mary Tyler Moore show.
I find other royal forum much more open .Different and opposing idea can be found there which make it more interesting. I don't need to justify my words each and every time I post, and I don't write nonsense things in favour of someone only because I want to post something.Bye
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  #1075  
Old 06-16-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
Evidence for criticism, that's what you meant? This is my feeling and I don't see any reason to mention the evidence, people can agree or disagree. Actually in forums people posts their own feeling and opinions about someone, and it should not necessarily be supported by an "evidence". With this manner people who say good things should also mention their evidence and examples. Also when someone says : "X is beautiful" it is her/his feeling and may be I don't agree.
Anyways, if everything negative is against the forums policy and should be justified here, I am in wrong place and won't post here again.
If you feel that way about the Forums Iwona, that's up to you. But it is not unreasonable to ask "why do you think Mary has a weak personality?" because we assume you must have some reason to post that statement in the first place. To put it another way, we can simply ask "what has led you to believe Mary has a weak personality?"

This is a perfectly reasonable question, and since this is a discussion Board, we are asking you if you would care to discuss your statement, and why you feel the way you do.
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  #1076  
Old 06-16-2006, 08:31 PM
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Evidence.

After 54 pages, I'm sure that someone has mentioned this before, but I would still like to post my opinion.

People are always asking for evidence of a public person's character. I'm going to bring up a few other royals here, but only to make my point.

In the early eighties, when Princess Diana was smiling and waving and looking delightful, where was the evidence that she was throwing herself down flights of stairs and cutting her wrists with lemon slicers? I'm sure if the world wide web were available back then, there would have been pages and pages of people praising her strength.

When Joachim and Alexandra were showing up at events arm-in-arm, where was the evidence that their marriage was falling apart? To this day, none of us outside the Danish Royal circle knows what went down, and I'm sure there are a few Royal watchers out there still scratching their heads over that one.

I guess the reason I use these examples is to show that none of us really know what is happening in these people's lives. We cannot make judgement calls on their character based on a few photo's, for good or for evil. Any Royal house worth their salt has the PR thing down pat. Whatever is happening in their personal lives, the minute they leave the palace, it is to be all smiles. We don't really know if Mary is a devil or an angel. Only her friends family, (and her staff) know for sure.

Also, hindsight is always 20/20. We never know how good a job someone has done until after they have done it, and in the case of Royals, sometimes long after they have done it.

All I can say about Mary (today) is this. When she leaves the palace, we are not aware that she has had a fight with Fred, or that the baby was up all night crying, or that she spent most of the morning wishing she was in Australia. So far, when she is working, she is professional. She is doing what she is supposed to do.
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  #1077  
Old 06-16-2006, 09:17 PM
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[quote=Jamerican]After 54 pages, I'm sure that someone has mentioned this before, but I would still like to post my opinion.

People are always asking for evidence of a public person's character. I'm going to bring up a few other royals here, but only to make my point.


Hear, hear Jamerican:)
Everything we hear, read, see etc about the Royals private lives in any country is supposition. It should all be taken with a pinch of salt.
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  #1078  
Old 06-16-2006, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
I find other royal forum much more open .Different and opposing idea can be found there which make it more interesting. I don't need to justify my words each and every time I post, and I don't write nonsense things in favour of someone only because I want to post something.Bye
Iwona nobody is forcing you to justify yourself every time you post but if you post something like "I think Mary has a weak personality" somebody is going to post asking you why. It's not asking you to justify yourself it's just asking you a question.
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  #1079  
Old 06-16-2006, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwona
Evidence for criticism, that's what you meant? This is my feeling and I don't see any reason to mention the evidence, people can agree or disagree. Actually in forums people posts their own feeling and opinions about someone, and it should not necessarily be supported by an "evidence". With this manner people who say good things should also mention their evidence and examples. Also when someone says : "X is beautiful" it is her/his feeling and may be I don't agree.
Anyways, if everything negative is against the forums policy and should be justified here, I am in wrong place and won't post here again.
Ok, let's forget about the whole 'evidence' thing. I'm still curious: what gave you the impression Mary's got a rather weak character? DId you read perhaps an article somewhere with anecdotes that give this impression? Or, is it purely from observation whenever, say, you come across video footage of Fred & Mary? Is he bossing her around? Is it, perhaps, the fact she so willingly gave up a great life in the goregeous 'Down Under'? Curious minds want to know! :)
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  #1080  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:54 PM
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I guess I could contribute, although it always ends in disaster- I find Mary an incredibly weak character because of how desperate she is for validation- even before she became a Princess, she dated a high flying ad exec whose father was also a company owner and her boyfriend, whom Mary has publicly praised said that what they had in common was they wanted to make more money. She was dating 18 year old Swans footballer at the time she met Frederik, and we all know how glamourised the football world is and the God like status these guys get. there was also an autographed photo of her and Sarah OHare Murdoch ripped to shreds found in her bin. this to me indicates someone who is waaay to impressed by fame money and celebrity, as she was not by any means a young woman in this photo. she also obviously knew it or she wouldn't have ripped the photo to shreds and binned it. she takes a modelling course . Perfect Danish is promised by the royal court and she talks almost her whole engagement interview in English. answering a few basic questions in Danish, and giving a scripted speech at the start, read phonetically. And since she has become a Princess she has continuesd to do fashion shoots, yet she doesn't wear Danish design or talk about Danish fashion- instead, right after becomming a princess, she stalled for a couple of months on doing an interview for an AUSTRALIAN magazine, and once given all the clothes she worse in the shoot as a gift, she suddenly found time to do it. that is another example of a very weak charecter. She then didn't promote Danish fashion, and talked about nothing but herself and her discreet and alturistic nature. Now, as a Princess, she shows up tp her events, poses like crazy and waves non-stop, stopping conversations to talk with people in order to pose. I have never seen any royal always looking so frequently at the camera and not the people they are supposed to be interacting with. She has also botoxed her face completley into oblivion, which is a very bad move, and she always shows off so much in her photos- she never holds her child properly, instead holds him up the way tennis players do with those big plates they receive. She also changes her accent to try and fit in with what she thinks she should be. when the Australian media falsely call her down to earth she can speak like a normal Australian, and when she needs to behave poshly, she puts on this really weird mixed accent. I of course don't know how her accent is meant to sound when she speaks Danish, but as an Australian, I can easily tell that the three different accents I have heard her speak English in are fake. She also has done too many tv specials- royalty should not do that. Before the wedding she even did one of her and Fred going around Australia and put her family in the tv special as well, acting all crazy and speaking in yet another weird accent. her brother even called her on it.I can't even put my finger on what kind of mix she was using there, but no one has 3 accents(and those are only the ones I have picked up on) I'm sure Danes and Brits could pick out at least another one for each language/country. And I don't even have to go into the whole my life is a constant shopping holiday. She spent just 4 weeks out of her 12 month Navison contract working. the rest on holidays and shopping at expensive boutiqes. The job was given to her by Fred best friend.these are another example of weak charecter. Her apartment was also impossible to afford for someone in her situation. so also paid for. I do not like people willing to be supported when there is no need for them to be. She has also got her spending even more out of control since she became a Princess.
Also a massive whitewashing had to take place, and people be sent legal threats in order to erase things that happened and why she actually met Frederik and went for him. I also hate how she shows up to official and state events with her cleavage spilling out. On her walkabouts and day events she doesn't do this, so when something is so official and important, why would you suddenly decide to dress in such an innappropiate way?
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