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  #921  
Old 06-05-2006, 05:40 AM
UserDane's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Princess
...but you can't be suspicious of everyone all the time without a reason can't you?

I'm sorry to say but yes, some people have made it their life to do just that. As it is commonly known here one particular royal site has attracted a lot of people who nobody in their right mind would call 'balanced' and who have made it their holy goal in life to slander Mary. They are a sorry lot who for some reason thrive on inventing stories, one more ubelievable than the other. And there a many more sites of this nature where people have unlimited access to abuse their pet aversions. One of the downsides of free Internet space perhaps - but the old saying that where there's a smoke there's a fire don't hold true anymore IMO.



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  #922  
Old 06-05-2006, 05:42 AM
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I think that one is the role as a wife and one is the role as a princess, she and her husband are the only ones that can evaluate how deep and true is their relationship and it just matter to them is their expectations are been reached or not. In regard to the role as a princess, it is quite more complicated, i dont think it is Fredrick who chooses everything she does, but the royal house, the queen and their advisers, if she meets the criteria or not will matter to the danish people. The fact that she is been involved in more official acts and activities means a lot, means that people like her and that she seems capable of doing the job. That is what matter the most.
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  #923  
Old 06-05-2006, 05:44 AM
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Does she receive favorable press in Denmark?
  #924  
Old 06-05-2006, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreDoc
Does she receive favorable press in Denmark?
Yes, mostly she does. There will always be Ekstra Bladet and Se&HÝr which will happily badmouth any member of the royal family but that is to be expected from them (on the other hand, if e.g. Mary or Alexandra makes a favourable impression abroad e.g. they will be the first to rave about 'our' Mary and 'our' Alexandra!)
Mary has taken on quite a number of patronages and I think the general impression is that she is a very capable person around people, children in particular. QMII was never quite that, always a bit akward.
  #925  
Old 06-05-2006, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane

But still you have no qualms referring to the job Mary had as one she got because Fred was a personal friend of the owner. Fred and Bill Gates are on that friendly terms? Wow, bet that's news to Frederik as well!
A glaring example of the dangers of carrying forward unfounded rumours and in some cases deliberately malicious gossip.

As to the way she has conducted herself as a princess - would you have preferred that she had not learnt Danish, had not taken on lots of engagements with our without her husband and did not have a really good connection with people when she's present? Because I certainly cannot for the life of me see that her way of doing her work is so very bad compared to other CPss. IMO she has done very very well as a CP and considering that she's only 2 years into this particular job I'm sure that there are more good things to come from her :)

Bill Gates didn't own the company. I'm sure you know that.
Of course Mary had to learn Danish, I never said she didn't. And it is my personal opinion that Mary does not undertake a lot of engagements, and when she does, she does not give enough support to her wortheir patronages. I don't care if she does them with or without her husband, and I don't see her as good at connecting with a crowd either
  #926  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:03 AM
Aussie Princess's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margrethe II
I think it really unfortunate that many people are naive enough to believe what the pink tabloids say...



And how does one think rumours start? Because of the constant circulation of uproven gossip, that's how. It has an existance as long as people choose to believe in hearsay & enjoy spreading it.

And going by your own admition of not likig her as a person or as a Crown Princess it makes perfect sense why, you, would have no hesitation in contuing the cycle of malicious & tragic gossip.

Very pitiful.


"MII"
how many times do I have to say I don't believe a word of what stupid tabloids say? If I did, I'd think Mary was a perfect Crown Princess and beautiful as a sunset in heaven. I don't buy into their crap.
The story I referred to is not a rumor for heavens sake. I even acknowledged she might be lying. I'm beginning to think I might as well go back and delete all referens to it since the fans of Mary seem to know so much better than anyone else. Yes, I don't like Mary, but I would be critical of anyone who spread gossip, malicious or otherwise. But this is in no way gossip. It was a reference to an story told by someone who was there, in order to answer a question posted here. no one would deny the existence of the story, and how strange it was that it dissapeared. You have no right to call sometihng pitiful simply because you choose to dismiss it. there are 2 sides to the coin and people aren't always perfect as you'd like them to be.
  #927  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane




I'm sorry to say but yes, some people have made it their life to do just that. As it is commonly known here one particular royal site has attracted a lot of people who nobody in their right mind would call 'balanced' and who have made it their holy goal in life to slander Mary. They are a sorry lot who for some reason thrive on inventing stories, one more ubelievable than the other. And there a many more sites of this nature where people have unlimited access to abuse their pet aversions. One of the downsides of free Internet space perhaps - but the old saying that where there's a smoke there's a fire don't hold true anymore IMO.




well then I'm pleased that doesn't go on here- where I, and others, are capable of forming our own opinions based on the cold hard facts we see. It's in a way like looking at the Mona Lisa...to me it is an ugly painting, and it fills me with a sense of dread....others love it. We are looking at exactly the same thing, but we interpret it differently. I don't see why that can't be accepted.
  #928  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Princess
Bill Gates didn't own the company. I'm sure you know that.
Of course Mary had to learn Danish, I never said she didn't. And it is my personal opinion that Mary does not undertake a lot of engagements, and when she does, she does not give enough support to her wortheir patronages. I don't care if she does them with or without her husband, and I don't see her as good at connecting with a crowd either
I thought you knew that Navision had been bought by Microsoft at the time Mary worked there? It was MS' second largest takeover after they took over Great Plains. Well, now you know.

Please define a lot of engagements. I can assure you that she certainly does her share. Do you sometimes check their website? Have you compared her schedule with other CPss'?
If she doesn't connect well with people she's meeting at her engagement what do they do with the pictures we see then - airbrush them? Those on TV as well?
How do you measure if she does not give them enough support? What/whom do you compare her to?
Organizations like The Danish Mental Health Fund, the Danish Association for Mental Health, Rare Disorders Denmark for example seem very pleased with her as a patron; they represent areas who are not used to get a lot of attention.
By the way, on Friday, Mary will - as patron for the mental health organizations - open a new psychiatric facility at Elsinore.
There may not be as many media people there to cover it compared to other events, but she's there.
  #929  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Princess
how many times do I have to say I don't believe a word of what stupid tabloids say? If I did, I'd think Mary was a perfect Crown Princess and beautiful as a sunset in heaven. I don't buy into their crap.
The story I referred to is not a rumor for heavens sake. I even acknowledged she might be lying. I'm beginning to think I might as well go back and delete all referens to it since the fans of Mary seem to know so much better than anyone else. Yes, I don't like Mary, but I would be critical of anyone who spread gossip, malicious or otherwise. But this is in no way gossip. It was a reference to an story told by someone who was there, in order to answer a question posted here. no one would deny the existence of the story, and how strange it was that it dissapeared. You have no right to call sometihng pitiful simply because you choose to dismiss it. there are 2 sides to the coin and people aren't always perfect as you'd like them to be.
The pink tabloid comment was not directed to you..incase you didn't notice it was above your quote.

As I have made known, if there is something that I genuinely see as not right (and yes, even concerning HRH the Crown Princess), I will be constructive in my approach, unlike some.

Mary fan's knowing better than anyone else? Hmmm, I definitly dont see it like that at all and if you do, I apologise if it comes across that way. I feel that we support a lady who has done nothing to warrant the harsh criticsms put forth by some...they are unsubstantiated..we hear the negativity but when we ask for evidence to be provided, it never is.

And really, what kind of friend would spread a story like that if she wear just that, a friend?

As for there being two sides to every coin, absolutely; however I like working with factual evidence when making a point or statement.

"MII"
  #930  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Princess
opinions based on the cold hard facts we see.
Your own cold hard "facts"..nothing more.

"MII"
  #931  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Princess
well then I'm pleased that doesn't go on here- where I, and others, are capable of forming our own opinions based on the cold hard facts we see. It's in a way like looking at the Mona Lisa...to me it is an ugly painting, and it fills me with a sense of dread....others love it. We are looking at exactly the same thing, but we interpret it differently. I don't see why that can't be accepted.
It's fair enough that we don't agree whether we like a person or not Aussie Princess (I agree with your opinion on Mona Lisa though ).
I admit that I defend Mary when I see the need for it. Not that she cannot take care of herself, because she surely can. I just don't understand the Internet 'culture' that has spread which dictate that whatever Mary does is open to constant critisim - by the same people e.g. Alexandra is always treated with velvet gloves. It's strange really. I have experienced both ladies' arrival to Denmark and like them both but for some reason Alexandra just seem to be doing it right whichever way she does things - according to the Internet opinion. She used 4 years to get settled here before having children (she said so herself), Mary had a child after a year and half, was extremely quick at taking events on her own etc. For the life of me I cannot understand why she cannot be given some slack - or some credit - for trying to do her duties (of which giving birth to the next heir must be considered one) as quickly as she has.

I don't believe that Mary can walk on water - I even suspect that she uses a bathroom like the rest of us. But I don't understand why so many people outside Denmark think that whatever Mary does, it's just wrong, the wrong time, the wrong attitude, the wrong reasons for doing it. Whereas Alexandra seems to be a virtual angel when she does anything. Beats me...
  #932  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:54 AM
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For me, and many others, I only give a statement credibility if there is evidence given. For example, a source from which the person got their information from in order to form their opinion. "Facts" that come from "a made up place in the back of my mind" does not count :)
  #933  
Old 06-05-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
It's fair enough that we don't agree whether we like a person or not Aussie Princess (I agree with your opinion on Mona Lisa though ).
I admit that I defend Mary when I see the need for it. Not that she cannot take care of herself, because she surely can. I just don't understand the Internet 'culture' that has spread which dictate that whatever Mary does is open to constant critisim - by the same people e.g. Alexandra is always treated with velvet gloves. It's strange really. I have experienced both ladies' arrival to Denmark and like them both but for some reason Alexandra just seem to be doing it right whichever way she does things - according to the Internet opinion. She used 4 years to get settled here before having children (she said so herself), Mary had a child after a year and half, was extremely quick at taking events on her own etc. For the life of me I cannot understand why she cannot be given some slack - or some credit - for trying to do her duties (of which giving birth to the next heir must be considered one) as quickly as she has.

I don't believe that Mary can walk on water - I even suspect that she uses a bathroom like the rest of us. But I don't understand why so many people outside Denmark think that whatever Mary does, it's just wrong, the wrong time, the wrong attitude, the wrong reasons for doing it. Whereas Alexandra seems to be a virtual angel when she does anything. Beats me...
Very good points. I think fanatism creates this kind of things.
  #934  
Old 06-05-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
It's fair enough that we don't agree whether we like a person or not Aussie Princess (I agree with your opinion on Mona Lisa though ).
I admit that I defend Mary when I see the need for it. Not that she cannot take care of herself, because she surely can. I just don't understand the open to constant critisim - by the same people e.g. Alexandra is always treated with velvet gloves. It's strange really. I have experienced both ladies' arrival to Denmark and like them both but for some reason Alexandra just seem to be doing it right whichever way she does things - according to Internet 'culture' that has spread which dictate that whatever Mary does is the Internet opinion. She used 4 years to get settled here before having children (she said so herself), Mary had a child after a year and half, was extremely quick at taking events on her own etc. For the life of me I cannot understand why she cannot be given some slack - or some credit - for trying to do her duties (of which giving birth to the next heir must be considered one) as quickly as she has.

I don't believe that Mary can walk on water - I even suspect that she uses a bathroom like the rest of us. But I don't understand why so many people outside Denmark think that whatever Mary does, it's just wrong, the wrong time, the wrong attitude, the wrong reasons for doing it. Whereas Alexandra seems to be a virtual angel when she does anything. Beats me...
You have expressed yourself with much constraint and assurance UserDane. I agree with you wholeheartedly :)

"MII"
  #935  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:23 PM
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I believe the Danish Royal Family and Mary did some major mistakes early in Mary's royal career that has set her up as a target for criticism. Instead of presenting her as someone new to her "job" and a sporty outdoors women that left her own country to be with her beloved husband she was potrayed as a fashion icon / modernizer of the royal house / major link between Australia and Denmarks commercial and scientific fields and occassionally compared to Diana. In addition the Vogue photo spread and her own interviews created an image that was very false. Her doing events on her own appeared to be the Queen's way of saying "sink or swim". It is that picture that people are criticing becasue that is only one available.
I hope she become comfortable in herself and present a picture that is believable. When that happens she will resonate with other people and she will be judged fairly. Denmark unconditionally love their Queen but will perhaps not have the same feeling for King Fred. Mary needs to find a way to connect with the Danes. Alexandra did it by concentrating on becoming a Dane and embracing the wonderful traits of the Danish people and culture. Mary could too if she wanted to.
  #936  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:46 PM
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All the comments on this thread (and others regarding Diana, Raina, and Letizia) regarding things that people heard, and the "pink journalism" with headlines like Mary wants out make me think about what life was like prior to the mass communication era that we live in. With all the resources at our finger tips, its amazing how something is read on a board, in a newspaper/magazine and is spread around like its the gospel. If things are this bad now, no wonder Marie Antoinette lost her head!

Please bear in mind..that I making no judgements about MA just a statement
  #937  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:46 PM
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The problem with Mary is simple. She doesn't have universal appeal. Some like her, some don't. Other princesses (Mathilde, Alexandra, etc.), seem to appeal to the majority of people.

So her detractors try hard to be heard, and to back up their complaints with facts. And her supporters deny the validity of the facts, enclosing the word "facts" in quotes to further their point. No one will win, because at the end of the day, half the people that know she exists (we are a small group, outside of Denmark and Australia) will like her, and half won't.
  #938  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royaltywatcher
The problem with Mary is simple. She doesn't have universal appeal. Some like her, some don't. Other princesses (Mathilde, Alexandra, etc.), seem to appeal to the majority of people.

So her detractors try hard to be heard, and to back up their complaints with facts. And her supporters deny the validity of the facts, enclosing the word "facts" in quotes to further their point. No one will win, because at the end of the day, half the people that know she exists (we are a small group, outside of Denmark and Australia) will like her, and half won't.
Excellent point. Either you like her or you don't...and truly..the only people who really matter are the people of Denmark. And if they truly like her and want the concept of a monarchy to continue than that's all that matters.
  #939  
Old 06-05-2006, 12:49 PM
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For me she presents a picture as believable as those of any other princess, there is no way to judge people from magazines or gossips. There are people that like her and people who dislike her, like any other royal, so there is very few it can be done to avoid it to happen, there is very few she can do, not even working 24 hours a day, do all the patronages, going solo, going with her husband, taking more and more responsabilities, representing Denmark overseas, one you form a first opinion, it is difficult to change. That is sad not just for Mary but for every single human being.
  #940  
Old 06-05-2006, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Princess
There are endless reasons to like and respect Mary. Every single one of them is totally valid.
There are endless reasons to dislike and not respect Mary. And every single one of them is also totally valid.
2 People look at the same thing and see something totally different. I know it's an old chestnut, but the whole Vogue and Dansk interviews. Her fans loved it. With good reason too pronbably.Others,like me, had a real problem with it, for very serious and credible reasons also.
I for one have not seen one argument here that was unsubstansiated or hypocritical. People need to realise that criticicsms are not a bad thing, but a wonderful thing! I really mean that.
that was definitely an interesting point, aussie princess and a good example of how an action can be interpreted in two totally different ways, without none of them being incorrect. if you liked the vogue interview because you are a fan, that sounds completely logical to me, while if you didn't like it because of any reasons because you are not a fan of mary, it's also logical.

taking your point a little bit further, i wanted to say extremes are not always good. you can dislike a person and admit that something he/she has done was a great idea and you can like that person and admit that she didn't look her best x day. opinions are not rigid, they are variable, and in those 'varieties' is when someone makes a difference. it's not a crime to be 'changeable' and therefore adaptable.
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