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  #441  
Old 02-01-2006, 11:03 AM
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"Yep the city of Odense has an University it´s a part of SouthDanish University :) I also live in Odense but i have spendt my childehood in Aarhus city."

Ah, I think that's the university my cousin's son wants to attend, that's why I've heard the name.
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  #442  
Old 02-01-2006, 11:36 AM
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Is the Danish Royal Family very popular in Denmark (or at least in odense) Because I Know in Britian their are certian Republican elements :) ....is that a dumb question lol I Know it seems they are popular especially since the Royal Wedding in May 2004
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  #443  
Old 02-01-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Fan
Is the Danish Royal Family very popular in Denmark (or at least in odense) Because I Know in Britian their are certian Republican elements :) ....is that a dumb question lol I Know it seems they are popular especially since the Royal Wedding in May 2004
Well firstly, there is no such thing as a dumb question :) Im not Danish but from what i have read and also from some Danish people's comments on the board, the DRF seems to be very popular in Denmark, generally. Maybe a Danish member can answer this for you, giving you a more accurate point of view. Scout posted a good answer to this. :)
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  #444  
Old 02-01-2006, 12:24 PM
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Well Carlota, I understand your puzzlement. You are looking at a phenomenon (royalty, a new princess..) that you probably know and are familiar with from your own country or context? – or that you have gotten to know in a royal-member board context? – and therefore you will naturally try to understand it and analyse it in terms of the contexts you know. This is how we humans understand our surroundings. But sometimes it is impossible to understand things outside their proper context (other times it IS possible). With regards to Princess Mary two- very different – things are interesting. 1. – Why people get fired up about Mary on a board such as this one – for or against her. And 2. - Why Denmark just really likes her. The first one is what is mostly discussed in this thread – and I think it is very interesting (I am an anthropologist, so I can’t help it). The second one is real-life Denmark, which maybe I can say a bit about. – The only thing that irritates me in this thread, is when people confuse the two issues, and try to impose the “board-reality” on Marys real life – but I guess its an easy mistake to make.
Well, about Mary in Denmark. The real clue is that the Danes love the royal family, and for many years have had an especially soft spot for Frederik – voted Dane of the year several times etc. I KNOW that many board members consider him lazy etc. etc. – but that is not his Danish image. Here many see him as quite an ideal – kind and friendly (reminds us all of his grandfather, though non of us remember him). University degree in political science, gone as far as you can in the military (navy seal – without special privileges), outdoors-sportsman, nice looking – and shy/slightly reserved. All the girlfriends did no harm to his image - most Danes see nothing but normality in that (it was never one-night things – usually 1-2 years). Easy tears in an otherwise tough man is quite the thing in Denmark – not a sign of weakness as in some other countries – quite the contrary actually. And what is perceived as laziness by some on this board (that he doesn’t seem to carry the schedule seen in other countries) doesn’t harm either – I truly believe overexposure would be a much bigger problem. So Danes loved him, and sort of had the impression that he was lonely and not quite as happy as we would like him to be. He has never whined about it, only answered some questions in a biography that gave this impression. And along comes Mary. She is not Danish (And we all “know” each other, so that could easily be a problem – again- only 5 million of us) – but yet she is quite like us (there seem to be many similarities between Danish an Australian culture). She is reserved and discreet during the dating period, she did some strategically important official interviews shortly before the wedding – that made a very good impression in Denmark - she is pretty, and she fits in without a fuss. And then she quite obviously and thoroughly transformed Frederik, and made him look just as happy as we want him to be. Maybe this is the true fairytale in Denmark, rather then the “normal girl become princess”. And it fits in with our folklore about royals – Frederiks grandfather is said to have gone through the same story, to be completed and transformed when he married Ingrid. And then – whether naturally or through good coaching and strategic planning – Mary is capable of keeping this balance I wrote about in another post, which for the individual Danish royal has a lot to do with keeping the balance between friendliness and accessibility – yet also a bit of reserve/shyness – which is CRUCIAL in a small country influenced by the jante-law. It might look easy, but I don’t think it is. Henrik sadly never really succeeded in it, so though he made our Queen happy – it is not always quite enough.
Maybe Mary hasn’t done anything extraordinary, but she does all the right things to keep up the perfect picture – early solo-events (yes – Danes expect that of their women), learns the language (not perfect, but quite good – all Danes know people who tried to learn it so we know she is doing fine), produced the heir, and shows initiative (the solo events, the new year “kur”..). She came, and fitted nicely into a perfect symbol-frame, and her greatest job is to stay inside it – to know where the hidden lines are. Till now she has succeeded. What is expected from her will change with time – but this far she has delivered – delivered enough to make Denmark happy – something which maybe takes the Danish context to really understand.
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  #445  
Old 02-01-2006, 07:35 PM
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thanks scout for your clear and not passionate comments. it's really appreciated that at least a person, who is also from the country, can give an objective view of things without falling in fanatism or in personal opinions, or even if you do you didn't fall into the "if you don't like them, don't look at them" or "you are jealous" arguments. there's a lot of people here who can't have a serious discussion without those, so your comments are much much appreciated, really. thanks for clarifying.
i wanted to ask... alexandra's and mary's position at the beginning was the same: they both were discreet, foreign, had to learn the language, both average but elegant women. however, as far as i know alexandra faced a lot of controversy and difficulties at the beginning. why would you say that was? (since you are an anthropologist i guess you will be able to give us a really good explanation on human behaviour :) !) why such a big difference between both of us?
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  #446  
Old 02-01-2006, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota
... i wanted to ask... alexandra's and mary's position at the beginning was the same: they both were discreet, foreign, had to learn the language, both average but elegant women. however, as far as i know alexandra faced a lot of controversy and difficulties at the beginning. why would you say that was? (since you are an anthropologist i guess you will be able to give us a really good explanation on human behaviour :) !) why such a big difference between both of us?
What? There was not much controversy or difficulties for Alexandra in the beginning or later on. On the contrary. Alexandras arrival was just as wellcomed as Marys, maybe even more bacause she was the first new addition to the royal family in many years. The Danish press was all over themselves to finally have a young princess to write about. Frederik was often absent from the press at the time bacause of his studies and his military carreer and he avoided as much as possible "go public" with his girlfriends. Joachim had been abroard in Hong kong and Paris for a longer period. So when Joachim brought Alexandra to Denmark the press finally had a faiyitale to write about. And they did!!!!!:)
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  #447  
Old 02-01-2006, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fromEU
What? There was not much controversy or difficulties for Alexandra in the beginning or later on. On the contrary. Alexandras arrival was just as wellcomed as Marys, maybe even more bacause she was the first new addition to the royal family in many years. The Danish press was all over themselves to finally have a young princess to write about. Frederik was often absent from the press at the time bacause of his studies and his military carreer and he avoided as much as possible "go public" with his girlfriends. Joachim had been abroard in Hong kong and Paris for a longer period. So when Joachim brought Alexandra to Denmark the press finally had a faiyitale to write about. And they did!!!!!:)
Didn't Alexandra face some racism initially? I'm sure that on the one hand there was the aspect of a beautiful, young, modern princess to write about that the Danish media was excited about, but I've also read that there was a bit of a racist attitude towards Alexandra because she was of mixed ethnicity. And that quite a deal was made that someone partially of Asian descent was marrying into the Danish royal family.

So I don't think things were completely roses for Alexandra, but they did work out very well in the end, except for the divorce ...
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  #448  
Old 02-02-2006, 01:54 AM
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Thank you for your posts Scout. They were very informative. I'm glad to hear Mary is well liked in Denmark and in the end that is all that matters. It is very true that she has done everything pretty much "correctly" up until now for the Danes. I'm just wondering since you said the interviews were no problem in Denmark, what did people think of the fashion shoots that went along with most of the interviews?
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  #449  
Old 02-02-2006, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scout
(even more then we do in Denmark - and yes, we like to praise our own ones, despite our reputation for the jante-law).
Hi Scout,

What is the jante-law please????

tx
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  #450  
Old 02-02-2006, 11:41 AM
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About Alexandra’s reception compared to Mary's - I agree completely with fromEU. Alexandra was welcomed with open arms, and there was absolutely no controversy. Now, in Denmark we unfortunately have our share of racists, just like all other countries, so I'm sure there were some who didn't like the thought of a part-Chinese girl entering the royal house. Personally I met one such person, and all I can say is that her views on other issues were just as pathetically narrow-minded and sad. But the entire press, and seemingly most of the population, went into instant, almost scary, delight with her. I still remember a friend calling me, yelling at me to turn on the TV - and there I found a press conference about to start, presenting the engaged couple. As they came out the door to stand on the stairs, an older reporter manically began to yell "you're beautiful, you're beautiful" - now that is NOT normal behaviour! As fromEU writes, she arrived at a time when we had a serious princess-deficit, and everybody wanted to hear about her. A gossip magazine editor, interviewed in connection with the resent christening, told that although Mary means enormous sales today, it was the arrival of Alexandra that "revived the gossip-trade" in Denmark, bringing on a whole new era. The tradition of being positive about the royals in the press was even stronger then, so it really was all roses. It is true as Alexandria writes above, that quite a deal was made about someone partially of Asian descent marrying into the Danish royal family - but it was in an interested and positive fashion - at least everything in the Danish media. I have been quite surprised to see this - in my opinion myth - about initial racism being rather widespread on English speaking boards. My guess would be that the English speaking gossip press made it up in connection with the divorce - which turned out so depressingly scandal-free (from gossip-press perspective!) - or in connection with their rather desperate attempt to create a Mary - Alexandra rivalry. Maybe others can remember when they started to hear about this??
Alexandra’s popularity certainly continued to rise, but it started out very well indeed. People have often said that it would be really hard for whoever Frederik married to live up to this. I think they forget that the same things that prepared the way for Alexandra would be there for her, plus Frederiks greater popularity. All in all, though I personally think both Danish princesses are doing a really good job in Denmark, I have no doubt that the Danish press traditions, and the general relationship between the Danish population and the royal house, makes it somewhat easier to be a new princess in Denmark than in some other countries. At the same time however, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it would be a mistake to think there is no effort, planning or skill behind the aparently easy Danish royal life.
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  #451  
Old 02-02-2006, 11:58 AM
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Bravo Scout for your analysis.
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  #452  
Old 02-02-2006, 12:08 PM
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About Jante Law:

http://www.linkdenmark.com/info/jante_law.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jante_Law
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  #453  
Old 02-02-2006, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soCal girl
what did people think of the fashion shoots that went along with most of the interviews?
- Mary’s fashion shoots were pretty well received in Denmark. The gossip magazines made a big deal out of them, and some of them used titles such as "Mary as model" - but the tone was positive, "look how beautiful our princess is" - kind of stuff. The Interviews connected with the shoots were about fashion, and Mary’s involvement as patronage of the Danish fashion industry. I remember national TV interviewing people on the street asking them what they thought about the shoots. People would smile or laugh, and say they were beautiful - and everyone answered that it was quite ok for her to do this, and that it was good for the fashion industry.
A controversy did arise - but not about the fashion shoots. The editor of the most aggressive Danish gossip rag - "Se og Hør" - complained that the shoots and interviews had gone to "elitist" magazines like Vogue and "Dansk", instead of normal gossip magazines. This was debated in the press, where some "experts" concluded it was a wise choice, which helped maintain the purpose of the shoots as promoting the Danish fashion industry.

It is also worth noting, that the fashion shoots were quickly forgotten again in Denmark (quite unlike on this board), since new interesting Mary-subjects soon appeared (Is she pregnant, the trip to Australia, solo engagements etc. etc.). They left an impression of Mary as fashion interested and fashion supporting - but not as fashion mad or having model aspirations. Maybe the fact that Alexandra did a fashion shoot for the magazine "Costume" in connection with her 40th birthday (½ a year - 1 year before Mary’s?) made it easier. Alexandra being the first Danish princess in decades, she has pretty much been able to define the job in Denmark.
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  #454  
Old 02-02-2006, 12:57 PM
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Costume? is that a danish magazine?
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  #455  
Old 02-02-2006, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
Costume? is that a danish magazine?
Yes - http://www.costume.dk/
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  #456  
Old 02-02-2006, 01:22 PM
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Scout....thank you for insighful posts about "life in Denmark." Its refreshing to see a Dane speak about his Royal Family.

While everyone on this forum is certainly entitled to their opinion and has the right to speak on each thread, I must admit, it is frustrating to read negative opinions (and unfounded rumours) about Mary, Letizia, and Mette-Marit, etc stated as if they were facts. Isn't it interesting that people keep throwing up the Vogue fashion shoot, the lack of engagements that Mary does when the Danes appear to be happy with their Crown Princess just the way she is? This is not to say that Scout speaks for all Danes but it is very interesting indeed.
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  #457  
Old 02-02-2006, 01:23 PM
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Thanks, i found the cover of Alexandra, she looks great there.

http://www.benjamin.dk/shop/index.php?cPath=24_30_42
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  #458  
Old 02-02-2006, 08:53 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by scout
- Mary’s fashion shoots were pretty well received in Denmark. The gossip magazines made a big deal out of them, and some of them used titles such as "Mary as model" - but the tone was positive, "look how beautiful our princess is" - kind of stuff. The Interviews connected with the shoots were about fashion, and Mary’s involvement as patronage of the Danish fashion industry. I remember national TV interviewing people on the street asking them what they thought about the shoots. People would smile or laugh, and say they were beautiful - and everyone answered that it was quite ok for her to do this, and that it was good for the fashion industry.
A controversy did arise - but not about the fashion shoots. The editor of the most aggressive Danish gossip rag - "Se og Hør" - complained that the shoots and interviews had gone to "elitist" magazines like Vogue and "Dansk", instead of normal gossip magazines. This was debated in the press, where some "experts" concluded it was a wise choice, which helped maintain the purpose of the shoots as promoting the Danish fashion industry.

It is also worth noting, that the fashion shoots were quickly forgotten again in Denmark (quite unlike on this board), since new interesting Mary-subjects soon appeared (Is she pregnant, the trip to Australia, solo engagements etc. etc.). They left an impression of Mary as fashion interested and fashion supporting - but not as fashion mad or having model aspirations. Maybe the fact that Alexandra did a fashion shoot for the magazine "Costume" in connection with her 40th birthday (½ a year - 1 year before Mary’s?) made it easier. Alexandra being the first Danish princess in decades, she has pretty much been able to define the job in Denmark.
Excellent and insightful post!!! Pls keep up posting.......scout!!! :)

Amen
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  #459  
Old 02-03-2006, 02:04 AM
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I've just bought the most recent New Idea magazine, with it's pullout "Souvenir Section", and I've decided that I am sick to death of Mary, or at the very least, I am sick to death of how she is portrayed in the media, and here are my reasons why.

1. She is NOT Crown Princess Mary of Denmark. Because she's not Royal OR Danish by birth. She is Mary, Crown Princess of Denmark. Big difference.

2. Beautiful/gorgeous/breathtaking. She's attractive yes, but I'd stop at pretty. I'll give her that, but I've seen a lot of women who were a lot more so. I think very often she looks like a deer caught in headlights, or a crazed woman ready to snap. And get rid of that stupid middle part in your hair. Speaking of hair, wear it pulled up and back more often or get a decent haircut, because you look sloppy when it's all just hanging shapelessly around your face.

3. Fashinable and elegant. Yes, and everyone else would be too, if they had fashion houses looking after them, not to mention a vastly larger wardrobe budget. Also, those super-ultra-mega pointed toe shoes you seem to be unable to do without make you look like you have kangaroo feet: one big giant clawed toe. Let's face it, in the pics of her pre-Fred, she wasn't too fashionable. More like down right daggy at times.

4. So intelligent and switched on. Well, she's obviously not a moron, but degrees and diplomas only point out what a good student she was. They do not necessarily equal a high IQ. Her father is a uni professor! She probably had very little say about her attending uni or not.
Yes, she has learned and manages a very difficult language, but so can anyone else if they have the desire, the practice, self discipline, and yes, the money to hire tutors and classes in that language. It's not a unique skill she alone possesses. I know a woman working for DIMIA who speaks 4 languages, fluently. Where is her magazine cover?

5. So clever and unconventional. Because she quieted her baby by sticking her pinky in his mouth??? Oh please, I don't even have kids and I did the same thing with my nephew at Kmart. Or was the unconventional part about her wearing 5kg of flowers on her head instead of the traditional hat? (Oh the rebellion! Will the monarchy weather this kind of hell raising behavior? I hold my breath in anticipation. Not.) Of course, the more I look at it, the more it grows on me, that floral head piece. I foresee a trend in religious ceremony attire.

6. So brave, yet so innocent. Give me a break already. She's an ambitious girl, who did her homework, played all the right cards, and is now reaping the benefits and drawbacks to marrying into the DRF. I refuse to believe that she had no idea who Fred was, or that he's a CP. I do believe that they are in love, but I just can't help but think that him being who he is didn't help it along juuuuuuust a little. I'd bet almost anything that she envisioned herself wearing a tiara and a ball gown waving at her adoring subjects, at least once in the earliest part of the relationship.

I've decided I'm not buying anymore magazines. They just take a situation or a person and either glorify them to the point of saint/martyr, or they blast the hell out of them for being like everybody else.
Mary is simply another human being in extrordinary circumstances, and is no more or less special than say, my sister, the girl behind the counter at the bakery, or any other woman walking down the street. The only difference is that she's got media attention. She has my sympathies.

Oh, I do think Princess Christian is ADORABLE, and favours Mary, thank God. I'd hate for him to have a lightbulb shaped head like his father appears to have. Maybe it's just the angle of the pics. I don't know.

There. I've said my piece, I feel much better. I've probably offended many a Fred and Mary fan, but that's the way I feel.
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  #460  
Old 02-03-2006, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Diana
I've just bought the most recent New Idea magazine, with it's pullout "Souvenir Section", and I've decided that I am sick to death of Mary, or at the very least, I am sick to death of how she is portrayed in the media, and here are my reasons why.

1. She is NOT Crown Princess Mary of Denmark. Because she's not Royal OR Danish by birth. She is Mary, Crown Princess of Denmark. Big difference.

2. Beautiful/gorgeous/breathtaking. She's attractive yes, but I'd stop at pretty. I'll give her that, but I've seen a lot of women who were a lot more so. I think very often she looks like a deer caught in headlights, or a crazed woman ready to snap. And get rid of that stupid middle part in your hair. Speaking of hair, wear it pulled up and back more often or get a decent haircut, because you look sloppy when it's all just hanging shapelessly around your face.

3. Fashinable and elegant. Yes, and everyone else would be too, if they had fashion houses looking after them, not to mention a vastly larger wardrobe budget. Also, those super-ultra-mega pointed toe shoes you seem to be unable to do without make you look like you have kangaroo feet: one big giant clawed toe. Let's face it, in the pics of her pre-Fred, she wasn't too fashionable. More like down right daggy at times.

4. So intelligent and switched on. Well, she's obviously not a moron, but degrees and diplomas only point out what a good student she was. They do not necessarily equal a high IQ. Her father is a uni professor! She probably had very little say about her attending uni or not.
Yes, she has learned and manages a very difficult language, but so can anyone else if they have the desire, the practice, self discipline, and yes, the money to hire tutors and classes in that language. It's not a unique skill she alone possesses. I know a woman working for DIMIA who speaks 4 languages, fluently. Where is her magazine cover?

5. So clever and unconventional. Because she quieted her baby by sticking her pinky in his mouth??? Oh please, I don't even have kids and I did the same thing with my nephew at Kmart. Or was the unconventional part about her wearing 5kg of flowers on her head instead of the traditional hat? (Oh the rebellion! Will the monarchy weather this kind of hell raising behavior? I hold my breath in anticipation. Not.) Of course, the more I look at it, the more it grows on me, that floral head piece. I foresee a trend in religious ceremony attire.

6. So brave, yet so innocent. Give me a break already. She's an ambitious girl, who did her homework, played all the right cards, and is now reaping the benefits and drawbacks to marrying into the DRF. I refuse to believe that she had no idea who Fred was, or that he's a CP. I do believe that they are in love, but I just can't help but think that him being who he is didn't help it along juuuuuuust a little. I'd bet almost anything that she envisioned herself wearing a tiara and a ball gown waving at her adoring subjects, at least once in the earliest part of the relationship.

I've decided I'm not buying anymore magazines. They just take a situation or a person and either glorify them to the point of saint/martyr, or they blast the hell out of them for being like everybody else.
Mary is simply another human being in extrordinary circumstances, and is no more or less special than say, my sister, the girl behind the counter at the bakery, or any other woman walking down the street. The only difference is that she's got media attention. She has my sympathies.

Oh, I do think Princess Christian is ADORABLE, and favours Mary, thank God. I'd hate for him to have a lightbulb shaped head like his father appears to have. Maybe it's just the angle of the pics. I don't know.

There. I've said my piece, I feel much better. I've probably offended many a Fred and Mary fan, but that's the way I feel.
keep your postives dont be negatives because CP Mary is married woman and she is current as Crown Princess and many people love her very much because she popular i know you are very angry but let her respect because she is from Australia and live with Fred when she marry with him and she got baby let her respect as privacy.

but she is current Royals and i dont think she isnt royals but she have rights by her titles when she got married to CP Fred of Denmark i respect her and Fred love her very much to death okay? and he did love her very much and she love him each other and never leave but still together as married.
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