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  #421  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:07 PM
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It's been interesting reading the thoughts and opinions of everyone here.

I've been following Mary and Fredrick since it was suggested in the press that a royal engagement was likely in the future. that's when the press exposure began to pick up quickly. At the begining, I was completely mad about Mary. My feelings about Mary have taken a bit of a downer since the wedding day, but I suppose I really shouldn't have any gripe about her, per say, rather I should be bashing the media for not showing the whole picture. After all, we only see what they want us to see, and that is usually what will make the most money.
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  #422  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:04 PM
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Just a few words from Denmark

Hello. I've been looking in on the forum from time to time, but never posted. So here goes - a little piece of my mind after lookíng through this thread.
I am danish, live in Denmark, and read at least 5-6 different danish news sources everyday. While I am totally aware that you can find danes who don't like Mary, danes who aren't all that impressed with her, and danes who coulden't care less about her - the big majority seems to think she's cool, and that Denmark certainly got the "best of the basket" both with Alexandra and with her. Now, if You catch a dane that really doesn't like her, they might say that they know tons of people feeling the same way - but surveys show that people think she is doing great. That is also the impression that I get from my own suroundings - at work, university and with friends - i still haven't met anyone who doesn't like her (honestly!) - though obviously they exist. So the strong polarisation she creates on this board, I would claim is non-existing in Denmark. At the same time, while it is true that fashion-show photos look more glamourous and are taken in much greater number than photos from other events - and are more often published in the glamour/gossip magazines - the regular media always report the princesses other engagements. Many times only with a little photo - BUT with text, telling about the cause/organisation, and often with interviews with people from the organisation in question. People know that she is patron of the copenhagen fashion fair - everytime the fair comes around there are all the pictures - and almost as many interviews with designers and organisers of the fair, telling about how much her patronage means for the industry, in terms of mediacoverage. But people also know about her engagement with heart decease organisations (yes - the mother story. but it works.) and with mental health issues - both of wich she has spoken about in interviews.
The fashion-image portrayed in this thread, is not - not - not - the image she has in Denmark. Despite the here so criticised photo-shootes, wich were'nt critisized at all in Denmark. Nor have i EVER heard - or read - anyone in Denmark refer to her as cold, aloof, snobish, stand-offish or anything of the kind. Sometimes it has been mentioned - with kindness - that she looked a bit nervous, especially in the beginning. But here her image is of a down to earth, friendly and interested person. Whatever event she attends gets coverage - in DENMARK!! - Which IS the point.
What surprises me so much in this thread, is that many people seem not to understand the difference between the "Royal Forum - world" - and the danish world. Even the most fanatic gossip magazines don't publish a tenth of the photos posted or linked to here. They chose some good ones and thats it. Here people post from the photo agencies, where you get a zillion photos, including some where she is looking weard or aloof or what ever. Not so in the real (danish) world. And here she is picked to pieces and critizised - which can't help but affect manys oppinion - which she isn't in Denmark. On the contrary, the reporters always interview people who got to talk to her after events, and they always sing her praises. Much of this is NOT published in english speaking medias - the australian (the australian!) seem to pick out non-sense little storys from the gossip magazines, and report it as being said in "danish medias" - and often half of the details are totally wrong.
My goodnes. I can almost understand some peoples dislike of her, when I see all the sugar they poor over her, (even more then we do in Denmark - and yes, we like to praise our own ones, despite our reputation for the jante-law).
I am SURE she is not perfect. I am SURE she makes mistakes. And I think it is totally ok that people dislike her, with or without reason - and that they tell about it, which this thread is obviously for. But it really irritates me when people say she should change - change her doings, change her media image - when her doings and image is great in Denmark. She should not change to meat aproval on the royal forum. And she has great aproval in Denmark - which even danish forum-members who dislike her must admit.
Cheers, Scout.
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  #423  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
"The landmines and Aids - didn't they first come until later?"

Aids was one of her very early causes though, there were the pictures, soon after her marriage where she was shown haking hands with an Aids patient without gloves at a time when stigma was still high, but I'm digressing.
It can't have been that soon after her marriage, because AIDS didn't really become known about until the mid-1980s. It must have been three or four years after her marriage at least.
  #424  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:45 PM
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I guess the title of the thread is a bit misleading. I have followed Fred, by default, since he dated Maria Montell. He hasn't been my favorite royal by far, but when you follow one..it seems easy enough to find out about others.

Mary is "whatever" in my opinion. I don't think she stands out in any particular way. Given her road up to the wedding, I can't say I admire her but I also can't say she bothers me. "Bother" is much too strong a word. I don't see her as coming from an extraordinary background or having qualities that set her apart from other commoners-marrying-royalty. I think she has said some dumb things in interviews (it feels like she gives alot of them for a European royal to the Australian media) and I think the Australian Vogue photo shoot should have focused more on Denmark (danish fashion) than on Mary and her "story". She can look very pretty sometimes (I know she has had the benefit of the royal makeover) and seems to be trying to make her way in a new role.

Fred, for his part, doesn't impress me at all. He doesn't feel like head of state material in the least. When it comes to the men in that family, I have to agree with Scout, the women are the better part of the deal.

As Scout said, she is good enough for Denmark--and that is all that matters. It doesn't matter if the world (royal world) likes/dislikes/even knows of her existence. If the Danes think she is alright, then that is alright.
  #425  
Old 01-31-2006, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scout
Hello. I've been looking in on the forum from time to time, but never posted. So here goes - a little piece of my mind after lookíng through this thread.
I am danish, live in Denmark, and read at least 5-6 different danish news sources everyday. While I am totally aware that you can find danes who don't like Mary, danes who aren't all that impressed with her, and danes who coulden't care less about her - the big majority seems to think she's cool, and that Denmark certainly got the "best of the basket" both with Alexandra and with her. Now, if You catch a dane that really doesn't like her, they might say that they know tons of people feeling the same way - but surveys show that people think she is doing great. That is also the impression that I get from my own suroundings - at work, university and with friends - i still haven't met anyone who doesn't like her (honestly!) - though obviously they exist. So the strong polarisation she creates on this board, I would claim is non-existing in Denmark. At the same time, while it is true that fashion-show photos look more glamourous and are taken in much greater number than photos from other events - and are more often published in the glamour/gossip magazines - the regular media always report the princesses other engagements. Many times only with a little photo - BUT with text, telling about the cause/organisation, and often with interviews with people from the organisation in question. People know that she is patron of the copenhagen fashion fair - everytime the fair comes around there are all the pictures - and almost as many interviews with designers and organisers of the fair, telling about how much her patronage means for the industry, in terms of mediacoverage. But people also know about her engagement with heart decease organisations (yes - the mother story. but it works.) and with mental health issues - both of wich she has spoken about in interviews.
The fashion-image portrayed in this thread, is not - not - not - the image she has in Denmark. Despite the here so criticised photo-shootes, wich were'nt critisized at all in Denmark. Nor have i EVER heard - or read - anyone in Denmark refer to her as cold, aloof, snobish, stand-offish or anything of the kind. Sometimes it has been mentioned - with kindness - that she looked a bit nervous, especially in the beginning. But here her image is of a down to earth, friendly and interested person. Whatever event she attends gets coverage - in DENMARK!! - Which IS the point.
What surprises me so much in this thread, is that many people seem not to understand the difference between the "Royal Forum - world" - and the danish world. Even the most fanatic gossip magazines don't publish a tenth of the photos posted or linked to here. They chose some good ones and thats it. Here people post from the photo agencies, where you get a zillion photos, including some where she is looking weard or aloof or what ever. Not so in the real (danish) world. And here she is picked to pieces and critizised - which can't help but affect manys oppinion - which she isn't in Denmark. On the contrary, the reporters always interview people who got to talk to her after events, and they always sing her praises. Much of this is NOT published in english speaking medias - the australian (the australian!) seem to pick out non-sense little storys from the gossip magazines, and report it as being said in "danish medias" - and often half of the details are totally wrong.
My goodnes. I can almost understand some peoples dislike of her, when I see all the sugar they poor over her, (even more then we do in Denmark - and yes, we like to praise our own ones, despite our reputation for the jante-law).
I am SURE she is not perfect. I am SURE she makes mistakes. And I think it is totally ok that people dislike her, with or without reason - and that they tell about it, which this thread is obviously for. But it really irritates me when people say she should change - change her doings, change her media image - when her doings and image is great in Denmark. She should not change to meat aproval on the royal forum. And she has great aproval in Denmark - which even danish forum-members who dislike her must admit.
Cheers, Scout.
Excellent Scout
and Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here as i do and meet some wonderful people.:)
  #426  
Old 01-31-2006, 11:13 PM
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Welcome to the forum scout! It's nice to hear the news from Denmark. I wondered how the Danish press and public were reacting to Mary.

You confirmed my opinion that Mary is generally well-liiked in Denmark and fits in well with the Danish Royal Family. I imagine the Danes like the idea of having two princesses after just having two princes for so long.

And I must ask you...what does jante-jaw mean? It sounds interesting.

Hope to see you more around here.
  #427  
Old 02-01-2006, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbitha
Excellent Scout
and Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here as i do and meet some wonderful people.:)
I agree with you Tabbitha, great eye opener post from Scout. Welcome to the forum.
I stopped paying attention to the posts that vilify Mary. She is not a controversial figure, or controversial anything. But some people have their own nasty agendas and use her as a visible plataform on political issues she has no part of. Others just don't like her for more personal issues we can't possibly comprehend. I don't get why so much negativity against someone that actually speaks so little and keeps a low key profile let's say, when compared to Prince Charles' notorious problems with the media. She looks nice, smiles a lot and patrons social issues and helps out charities, what more can you ask? She does her duties and does them well.

I did not know much about her until her visit to Australia last year and the flood of articles on her gave me the impression she seems to be quite a nice and polite young lady and a perfect match for the former so called Turbo Prince to settle down and start a family.
She is a great addition to the Royal families not just in Europe but world wide. No more and no less.
  #428  
Old 02-01-2006, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbitha
Excellent Scout
and Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here as i do and meet some wonderful people.:)
Great Post, Scott.

I visited Denmark in April, 2005 and had the privilege of going to Amailenborg to see the Queen appear on the balcony for her 65th birthday. I have to say, it was a great day- you could really feel the love and admiration that the Danish people have for their monarch. I alsomanaged to speak to a few Danes as well, both on that day and other times during my trip about the royals, and the consensus is that Mary and company are doing a good job.
(Denmark has some really intelligent, friendly people).

Can I play devils advocate here?

From what I could observe as an outsider, I would also say that the Danish media in particular (from what I could understand) and the people in general do not critique their monarchy in a way that some of us used to the shenanigans of the British media have come to expect. It is also my opinion that the Danes expectations of their monarchy is somewhat different to the Brits expectations-The DRF seem to have far greater leeway to do or not do certain things, (or say certain things ) than the British Monarchy do. This is not to put down the Danes or anything, I think it is just a cultural thing. I think that the love the Danes have for their Royal family has simply extended to Mary. They may love her simply because she is Frederiks wife.
  #429  
Old 02-01-2006, 09:02 AM
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"From what I could observe as an outsider, I would also say that the Danish media in particular (from what I could understand) and the people in general do not critique their monarchy in a way that some of us used to the shenanigans of the British media have come to expect. "

That's one thing I've noticed as well, they're alot more deferential to their monarchy
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  #430  
Old 02-01-2006, 09:05 AM
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"I stopped paying attention to the posts that vilify Mary. She is not a controversial figure, or controversial anything. But some people have their own nasty agendas and use her as a visible plataform on political issues she has no part of."
I can't speak for others who aren't Mary fans but I have no "nasty agendas".

"Others just don't like her for more personal issues we can't possibly comprehend."

Again, I have no "personal issues" for my dislike.

I find it quite illuminating that so many of the Mary fans try to personally put down another's opinion at every turn
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  #431  
Old 02-01-2006, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamerican

From what I could observe as an outsider, I would also say that the Danish media in particular (from what I could understand) and the people in general do not critique their monarchy in a way that some of us used to the shenanigans of the British media have come to expect. It is also my opinion that the Danes expectations of their monarchy is somewhat different to the Brits expectations-The DRF seem to have far greater leeway to do or not do certain things, (or say certain things ) than the British Monarchy do. This is not to put down the Danes or anything, I think it is just a cultural thing. I think that the love the Danes have for their Royal family has simply extended to Mary. They may love her simply because she is Frederiks wife.
I think you make a lot of sense here jamerican. I've noticed as well that the Danish media are not so hypercritical as the British. I'm inclined though to applaud the Danes for it rather than put them down. For all of its hypercriticalness, the British press is hardly objective and some of their criticisms aren't based on fact or particularly trustworthy.

The Danes do seem to criticize the monarchy when its serious enough. Some Danes faulted Margrethe for her Islam speech and the Parliament debated making the Royal Family accountable to the law when Prince Joachim got caught speeding several times and couldn't be charged because he was royal.

But whether Mary is stuck up or not doing enough for her charities (when she normally does more than Fred) does not seem as important in the big scheme of things as these other issues so it looks like the Danes see Mary's faults to some extent but don't bother themselves unnecessarily with them.

Actually I think the Danes have a better sense of what's important versus what's not.
  #432  
Old 02-01-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star

I find it quite illuminating that so many of the Mary fans try to personally put down another's opinion at every turn
Well that is exactly what the anti-mary posters do to Mary isnt it? If you dont want something done to yourself, dont do it to others.

Anyway, It is great that the Danes are so supportive of their monarchy, scouts post was really informative and was very useul as it came from a Danish person. If most Danes are not critisising Mary, why should non-Danes critisize? But i kow for message board sake we are meant to, but obviously Mary is doing going about her work the right way because the Danish consider it to be right. All other nationalities opinions, good or bad are irrelevant because as long as the Danes are happy, thats all taht really matters isnt it.
  #433  
Old 02-01-2006, 09:25 AM
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"Well that is exactly what the anti-mary posters do to Mary isnt it? If you dont want something done to yourself, dont do it to others."

The difference is, I've yet to see anyone state they dislike Mary for personal reasons. hey usually have a valid reason, which is often just snubbed or deemed irrelevant because it doesn't suit some people's ideals.
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  #434  
Old 02-01-2006, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbitha
Excellent Scout
and Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here as i do and meet some wonderful people.:)
Amen to that.........Scout...........Excellent comments! :) :) :)

Please keep up posting.............I really enjoy it! Much appreciated!

Cheers
  #435  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:17 AM
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Wink Danes and their royals

Yes, I think it is quite true that danes and danish media perceive and respond to their royals very differently then is the case in many other countries. Obviously I don't know as much about what goes on in other countries as I do about Denmark, but I have lived in Spain for several years and am convinced the situation is much more difficult there. The political situation and quite widespred republicanism (compared to Denmark where it is almost invisible) makes parts of the media much more critical, and as Letizia is "the new one" and "unestablished" compared to the rest of the royal family, she is an easy prey (but also, for other parts of the media, an easy praise). Some spaniards also say that there is a big tradition in Spain for critizising "our own ones" and that Letizia suffers because of that. This is actually interesting, because this is quite similar to what the "Jante Law" I mentioned above is about: Thou shalt not presume that thou art anyone [important], Thou shalt not presume that thou art as good as us, Thou shalt not presume that thou art any wiser than us, Thou shalt never indulge in the conceit of imagining that thou art better than us, - etc. etc. This "law" (Formulated by the author Sandemose in a novel) is often said to describe a strong side of nordic culture. For years people have talked about it as a big problem that for instance makes it hard for danish buisines people to succed abroad - because they always present themselves humbly and self-excusing. However danes also have a tendency to think that we actually are pretty great, and that our "great ones" are truely great - our national teams, artists - and royals - who all in essence are symbols of Denmark - of us. This makes for a special situation, where certain formes of behaviour are punished, and others are considered fine - and it is hard to explain just where the line is - but danes know it, and react to it. So the big ones are pulled down when they cross the line. In regards to our royals, there is a widespread tradition for respect in the media - founded on the simple premise that danes don't want to read negative stuff about them. (I bet the british royals would love to import this!) Parts of the media (gossip magazines) have openly stated that they would love to be more agressive, but that they have to adapt to the readers expectations. However, they do immediately jump at the opportunity when someone crosses the line - as for instance Prince Henrik was thought to have done a few years ago, when he publicly complained about his position. Massacre!
And yes - the expectations we have for our royals are probably also different. Denmark is a very small country, and hitherto very peaceful and crisis-free. There have - thank God - been few opportunities to comfort victims or stand firm in crisis. The royals are supposed to be there, and behave as we expect them to, represent us beautifully, draw media attention to worthy causes - but not overexpose themselves (very important, and I would think a big consideration in terms of how many official acts they have - if they were in the regular media more often then they are, I seriously think people would get sick of them - which maybe is what happens to people on this board - you get to much of them!) - and generally, be our number 1 national symbol. Maybe this sounds easy compared to the duties of royals in other countries, but I actually consider it an art. A constant balance, that the danish royals have hitherto succeded in - keeping necessary and relevant, and adapting to changing circumstances and needs. The result is that they are popular and supported by the people - enough to carry them through easily even when they make mistakes which of course they do.
Whell, this turned out another long post - sorry about that. And maybe I'm only supposed to write in this thread if I am bothered by the couple? - Well I could easily be bothered with them on this board- both when they are praised out of reason- and when they are critized out of reason. But in day-to-day Denmark - I think they are great of course... I'm danish.
  #436  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:30 AM
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Thanks for your insight, scout. I have family in Copenhagen and Aarhus. whereabouts are you from, if you don't mind my asking?
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  #437  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:44 AM
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Hi there Little star - I live in Århus, but have lived both in Odense and Copenhagen... - Well - small country, short distances...
  #438  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:46 AM
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scout, your views were really interesting. i also think, like you, that mary gets a lot of sugar in media articles and maybe that's why we had a misconception of her, as i said before. i guess time will tell us how she is like and probably is a bit too early.
what i wanted to ask is what is the thing that makes the danes be atracted by mary? as i said before i have the impression that many people consider her kind of the perfect person and perfect princess who was meant and found what she had to be, while i (and lots of more people) see her as a really common and normal person. however, if this is what is atractiove to people, why so much hype on mary thinking of all the commoner-princesses we have in many royal families? hope you can clear this a little bit, what is the main thing that atracts to the danes about mary?
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  #439  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:48 AM
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"Hi there Little star - I live in Århus, but have lived both in Odense and Copenhagen... - Well - small country, short distances..."

Yes, it is a small country, but you've got enough personality! I think I've heard of Odense, does it have a university?
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  #440  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
"Hi there Little star - I live in Århus, but have lived both in Odense and Copenhagen... - Well - small country, short distances..."

Yes, it is a small country, but you've got enough personality! I think I've heard of Odense, does it have a university?
Yep the city of Odense has an University it´s a part of SouthDanish University :) I also live in Odense but i have spendt my childehood in Aarhus city.
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