The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #401  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:09 AM
Australian's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 2,152
I dont think anyone was getting on the defensive, I just think t hat people were challenging or keeping the debate going. Yes, you are right melissajames, Mary is a human being and she cant be expected to get everything right all the time like a number of posters think she should be doing. But I stand by what I said, fashion events inevitably gain more attention than other patronages, Mary cannot help that.
__________________

  #402  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:09 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere not Interesting, Canada
Posts: 291
Has it ever occured to anyone that Mary's clothes are for her job? She is expected to look good all the time. That is one of her job requirements as Crown Princess. Imagine how a patronage would feel if she showed in a old outfit? They might feel offended. We are shallow creatures by nature. The issues that Mary gives her patronage to will never be as important as what she wore that day.

Also, I don't think QM was a exceptionally good mother. Both Frederick and Joachim seem a little on the immature side. Probably why they were attracted to strong women.
__________________

  #403  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:14 AM
Little_star's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,605
"Her patronage of e.g. Rare Diseases is not to make you aware of the fact that she is a patron - but to use her name and position to create awareness of these diseases."

But how many people are even aware she has such patronages? Not many. Most people know of her links to the fashion industry though.

The fact is, as it's stands her and her team are failing to promote all her causes equally. If people want the criticism of Mary regarding her patronages to end then she needs to do a better job of pomoting them all equally. After all, her first patronage was for mental health, so why not arrange an interview with the editor of a publication like "Psychology Today", thereby boosting its profile and cementing her own as something other than a clotheshorse, an accusation commonly leveled at her.
__________________
Please give whatever you can to the DEC's Pakistan Floods Appeal. Millions of lives are at risk
http://www.dec.org.uk/index.html
  #404  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:21 AM
Australian's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 2,152
[quote=Little_star]"Her patronage of e.g. Rare Diseases is not to make you aware of the fact that she is a patron - but to use her name and position to create awareness of these diseases."

But how many people are even aware she has such patronages? Not many. Most people know of her links to the fashion industry though.

They are not aware because rare diseases does not get the same sort of coverage, it never will, thats just the reality.



. After all, her first patronage was for mental health, so why not arrange an interview with the editor of a publication like "Psychology Today", thereby boosting its profile and cementing her own as something other than a clotheshorse, an accusation commonly leveled at her

Little_Star, since you seem such an expert on royal patronages and PR, how would you advise Mary on how to promote other patronages more? PLease go up there and show her how its done
  #405  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:28 AM
Little_star's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,605
"They are not aware because rare diseases does not get the same sort of coverage, it never will, thats just the reality."

That defeats the whole point of Royal Patronages, Royals are supposed to help raise the profiles of their causes. Diana did it for landmines and Aids, Maxima has done it with microfinance.
If people are going to have such a defeatist attitutde to begin with they might as well not bother having Royal Patronages at all.

"Little_Star, since you seem such an expert on royal patronages and PR, how would you advise Mary on how to promote other patronages more? PLease go up there and show her how its done"

There's no need to go on the defensive and be personal about things. Time and time again I've seen people suggest that those with a criticism of Mary are only looking at one side of the picture. I offered a suggestion of something that could be done to help eliminate the impression some have of her as shallow and fashion-obsessed.
Perhaps next time someone makes such a claim you won't be so quick to pounce on them, after all you don't seem interested of ways of geting rid of such impressions that people have of Mary.
__________________
Please give whatever you can to the DEC's Pakistan Floods Appeal. Millions of lives are at risk
http://www.dec.org.uk/index.html
  #406  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:28 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Australian
I dont think anyone was getting on the defensive, I just think t hat people were challenging or keeping the debate going. Yes, you are right melissajames, Mary is a human being and she cant be expected to get everything right all the time like a number of posters think she should be doing. But I stand by what I said, fashion events inevitably gain more attention than other patronages, Mary cannot help that.
I agree, there is inherent biased towards the reporting of Mary at fashion events where she is doing legitimate, official work.

I also believe that Mary should be given time to adjust. Now that she is a mum, she also has to find time for raising her family.

Perhaps I could give one example here to domonstrate what it means to really stand out and represent charities. Think about the late Diana. What causes springs to your mind? To me, it is landmines and aids ok. now she was THE clotheshorse. I want to make clear that I am NOT making a comparison of the two here; Mary has only been royal for a few years and the circumstances of the two individuals are different. But do you get the level of professionalism and 'passion' I am talking about? :)
At the moment, when i think of Mary and her work, i don't think of 'mental health' I just think of 'charity work'. It just does not scream 'help this cause!' to me.
  #407  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:30 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 208
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christo's Girl
Both Frederick and Joachim seem a little on the immature side. Probably why they were attracted to strong women.
So true!!!
  #408  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:31 AM
norwegianne's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rogaland, Norway
Posts: 5,993
But a comparison with Diana will be wrong at this point. What were Diana's charities and patronages after 1 1/2 years of marriage? The landmines and Aids - didn't they first come until later?
__________________
  #409  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:34 AM
Little_star's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,605
"The landmines and Aids - didn't they first come until later?"

Aids was one of her very early causes though, there were the pictures, soon after her marriage where she was shown haking hands with an Aids patient without gloves at a time when stigma was still high, but I'm digressing.
__________________
Please give whatever you can to the DEC's Pakistan Floods Appeal. Millions of lives are at risk
http://www.dec.org.uk/index.html
  #410  
Old 01-31-2006, 10:34 AM
Australian's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by norwegianne
But a comparison with Diana will be wrong at this point. What were Diana's charities and patronages after 1 1/2 years of marriage? The landmines and Aids - didn't they first come until later?
Yes, that is very true
  #411  
Old 01-31-2006, 11:07 AM
UserDane's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissajames
Actually, Little Star has a point. Mary is meant to raise awareness of these charities and if not many people have heard of them then the PR and promotion side of things need to improve. Otherwise, what in your opinion would be the point of having a royal patron? If awareness is not important, why not just ask the average Joe on the street to be patron?.
My point was that in the context of patronages, the most important thing is not to 'sell' Mary as a certain type of person via her patronage. The focus point is that Mary should use whatever resources she can pull to assist the organisation she is patron for. If that eg. means some time out of the limelight where the focus is on long-term strategies or something else - fine by me. The main thing is that the end result will be to the advantage of the organisation. In that respect one year is not a lot of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melissajames
UserDane, this thread is meant for people to share what they don't like about Fred and Mary and they can write based on their knowledge/opinion on them. You have the right to disagree, but it does not mean you have to systematically reject every thing that the posters don't like about Mary/Fred, and be on the defensive. Mary is a human being as well, so by nature she can not be perfect. If anyone is expecting her to be, then they are being unrealistic. But having criticisms does not mean they do not like Mary as a whole.
I for one certainly do not think that Mary is perfect. I don't believe in such a thing as the perfect person - most of all because we all put different values into the term 'perfect'. And I certainly do not 'systematically' reject everything that other people don't like about Mary or Frederik. I have always and will continue to say if I disagree with an opinion and I happened to disagree with Little Star.
I think that Mary generally is getting far more criticism for her patronages compared to others in similar positions. I just don't find that fair.

  #412  
Old 01-31-2006, 11:37 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kolding, Denmark
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Maxima
Again a fashion fair?

I think Mary is a great princess and i like her very much, but i wonder when she'll start "doing something for Denmark", helping people, i dont know...just like other crwonprincesses: Mathilde, Màxima and Victoria(they dont spend the hole day going to fashion fairs:( )
This is not directed at you only.

Mary is a patron for the CIFF. The Copenhagen International Fashion Fair is TWICE A YEAR!! As a patron she will attend the fashion fair also in the future. February and August. In between Mary has almost nothing to do with fashion. Some of you seems to be deliberately only to focussing on the fashion. But it is only TWICE A YEAR. Here is Mary’s official work for fashion since her start.

2004 fashion fair in August:
Thursday 5.august 2004 11 am HRH The Crown Princess visits the Copenhagen International Fashion Fair in Bella center.

2005 fashion fair in February:
Thursday 10 February at 11am HRH The Crown Princess visits the Copenhagen International Fashion Fair at BellaCenter
Friday 11 February at 1pm HRH The Crown Princess visits CPH Vision fashion fair in Øksnehallen, Copenhagen.
Sunday 13 February at 3pm HRH The Crown Princess as the patron hands out the Designer's Nest award in connection with a fashion show in Øksnehallen, Copenhagen

2005 fashion fair in August:
Thursday 11 August at 11am HRH The Crown Princess as the patron attends the opening of fashion fair in BellaCenter
Friday 12 August at 11:50am HRH The Crown Princess visits the fashion fair CPH Vision in Øksnehallen, Copenhagen
Saturday 13 August at 4pm HRH The Crown Princess, as patron, hands over the award Designers Nest in Øksnehallen, Copenhagen.
Saturday 13 August at 7:10pm HRH The Crown Princess as patron attends the danish refugee council's fashion show at The Royal Academy of Fine Arts, School of Architecture on Holmen, Copenhagen.
Saturday 13 August at 9:30pm TRH The Crown Prince Couple, as guests of honour, attend BellaCenter's 25th jubilee fashion show on the lawn in the TivoliGarden.

2006 this years fashion fair in February:
Thursday 9 February 2006 at 12 HRH The Crown Princess as patron makes a visit to "Copenhagen International Fashion Fair" in the Bella Center, Copenhagen

A quick count of all the official engagements that Mary has attended is that she has done about 140 official engagements maybe more. It would require a lot of work to list them all here. Some of these engagements were official trips abroad with official engagements over several days. Like the official trips to Greenland (for instance about 10days), to Japan, Fareo Islands, Germany, New York, London, Australia, Thailand, Estonia etc. The days have not been counted in. So every trip is counted as one engagement.

Again TWICE A YEAR. She has done a lot of non-fashion engagements in between and those engagements do get press coverage. Go to the CPMB board and you will see a lot of functions that is not related to fashion and with many pictures, articles, magazine scans etc. All not related to fashion. This board is just not as well organised and not as good at recognising and documenting Mary’s work as the CPMB board is. So stay narrow minded if you want to, but that doesn’t change the facts. The CIFF is only TWICE A YEAR.

Btw doing something for fashion is also doing something for Denmark and you will most likely se similar work from Mary as the other princesses do in the future.
  #413  
Old 01-31-2006, 12:05 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by norwegianne
But a comparison with Diana will be wrong at this point. What were Diana's charities and patronages after 1 1/2 years of marriage? The landmines and Aids - didn't they first come until later?
This is a very important point, norwegianne. Not only Diana but Princess Alexandra was given a bit of time to find her role. It was taken for granted that marrying into royal life would be an adjustment that would take time to make. This luxury does not seem to be given to Mary for whatever reason.

Perhaps it was the hype surrounding Mary, who knows, but the present media does tend to peg people into holes that are convenient for them to build a story around. The media aren't the only ones; with the faster and faster pace of modern life and the barrage of media messages we are bombarded with, I think we are more likely than before to size someone up quickly and put a label on them if we can't figure them out.

This brings us to the fashion-obsessed label which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Mary is an attractive girl that can look spectacular at times but having being raised by a fashionista mother, I can say definitely that Mary is not a fashionista.

Fashionistas consider fashion as high art, in the same class as music, painting, or culinary art and their piece de resistance is the "turnout", putting together a look that is both individual and creates a very consicious presence. Fashion's disciples spend a lifetime learning and enhancing the art of the turnout. They are experts at it and can talk about it forever in the same way that chefs can argue extensively about the best bearnaise sauce (I know having heard enough from my mother-obviously I am not a fashionista )

They are fanatical about it and they never leave the house without a good turnout. Whether they are wearing jeans and a t-shirt or the latest fashions, every single time they step out, they sweat the details to make sure the whole look is just what they intend. When all the pieces fit together seamless to make a look, that is called the successful turnout.

They follow fashion religiously but adapt it to enhancing their own look. My mother's favorite saying was that when she was turned out correctly, nobody noticed the clothes, they noticed her. Fashionistas treat their bodies and their clothes like a concerto violinist would approach a musical composition, adding a nuance here, taking off something there. While the clothes are certainly part of the turnout, they are only one of the pieces.

Diana became a fashionista after she was married for awhile. At first she just accepted whatever fashion designers threw at her but at some point, she decided that she really wanted to learn how to create a look. I don't know who her first teachers were, but she quickly embraced the principles of high fashion to such an extent as to make my fashionista mother proud. Every time she stepped out, she had a look that was individual and created a strong and distinct statement. Princess Caroline is another fashionista and as with most fashionistas, she spends most of her time shopping.

I think Mary enjoys nice clothes, she likes looking good but she hasn't wholeheartedly embraced fashion's principles and made them her own to create an unmistakeable presence that has her mark on it. Some of her looks are missing key details that no self-respecting fashionista would leave home without. Not being a fashionista, I don't mind; I think she still looks good, but my mother the fashionista would point them out.

An example of inattention to detail was noticed by some Danes with the way Mary held Christian at the christening. The gown is designed so that the mother can hold the baby securely in such a way so as to show off the full extent of the lacework and embroidery. Some people complained to BT that nobody showed Mary how to pull it off but if she had been an expert at the turnout she would have known instinctively that there was a certain way to hold the baby to show off the gown and either figured it out herself or asked. I thought she looked good and still do but when I read details of how the gown was made, I realized that this is a basic detail that a fashionista would be aware of and Mary obviously was not aware.

This brings us to an interesting phenomenon that Mary herself has not given us a strong and unmistakeable identity of who she is. In the absence of a strong identity from Mary herself, I think the press is creating an identity for her and whether its positive or negative, this identity really has nothing to do with Mary herself.

The answer in the longterm is for Mary to fully embrace something that ignites her passion so that she can create an identity for herself. Whether the reaction is positive or negative, we'll get a sense of the real Mary if it is something that she herself has created. I personally don't see a problem if she decides to immerse herself in high fashion. It hasn't hurt other princesses, because they are indulging their passion, we get a sense of the person behind the hype. It doesn't matter that fashion is seen as lightweight by some because the women involved definitely take it seriously and it shows. If Mary wants to stay at home with Fred and become totally domestic, that's fine too as long as she really goes for it.

I think in the present media climate, the worst thing people accuse you of of not making a strong statement not necessarily making a wrong statement.
  #414  
Old 01-31-2006, 01:01 PM
Karina the Great's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Arlington, United States
Posts: 3
u are right ysbel the present media climate , accusses people for making a strong statement
  #415  
Old 01-31-2006, 02:24 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by norwegianne
But a comparison with Diana will be wrong at this point. What were Diana's charities and patronages after 1 1/2 years of marriage? The landmines and Aids - didn't they first come until later?
If you were refering to my post, I did say "want to make clear that I am NOT making a comparison of the two here; Mary has only been royal for a few years and the circumstances of the two individuals are different."

And I mentioned Diana as an example of a royal who had represented the causes so well that everybody can associate them with her.

With time, Mary should improve her skills as princess and I look forward to her making an even greater impact on the causes which are meaningful to her. :)
  #416  
Old 01-31-2006, 02:30 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere not Interesting, Canada
Posts: 291
I think alot of the hype surrounding Mary is fuelled by the Australian news agents. I live in America and I rarely find any mention of Mary at all in magazines, newspapers etc... The United States is more focused on the British Royal Family, the Monaco Royal Family(because of Princess Grace), and Athina Onassis Roussel(because of Jackie O). After their marriage People Magazine had a very, very short little statement about the marriage. That is all. It may change though when Frederick and Mary tour the U.S. in the future. I wonder if Mary will continue to emphasize her Australian background? Will that be tolerated?
  #417  
Old 01-31-2006, 04:49 PM
wiwaxia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Douz, Tunisia
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
I think that Mary generally is getting far more criticism for her patronages compared to others in similar positions. I just don't find that fair.
People are entitled to criticise if that is their opinion, after all why would they if they didn't see things that way, - you don't think it's fair, and that is something you are entitled to think..........I think her efforts in the patronage department reflect on her pre royal "I", other than attend when asked, her involvement is somewhat superficial, there are no reports of her making a consoliodated effort over and above her actual appearances, which in some way conforms to her rather flighty work history prior to marriage.
  #418  
Old 01-31-2006, 05:04 PM
UserDane's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiwaxia
People are entitled to criticise if that is their opinion, after all why would they if they didn't see things that way, - you don't think it's fair, and that is something you are entitled to think..........I think her efforts in the patronage department reflect on her pre royal "I", other than attend when asked, her involvement is somewhat superficial, there are no reports of her making a consoliodated effort over and above her actual appearances, which in some way conforms to her rather flighty work history prior to marriage.
I'm not saying people are not entitled to criticise; I'm just stating my opinion.

Are there reports of her making less efforts with regard to her patronages than expected or when compared to other royals who take on similar duties?

'A flighty work history' sounds like an urban legend initiated at a place that shall remain nameless. I take 'flighty' people anyday if having a couple of jobs within a span of years means flighty; to me it signals a wish to try new avenues, to explore what you can do - and one's twenties is the right age to do just that.

  #419  
Old 01-31-2006, 06:04 PM
Daneborn's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden
Posts: 250
I think it's great Mary takes on so many patronages.

But I have to say I can't really see what good she's done so far. It's not that I demand results NOW, it's just she won't impress me until she speaks out about why and how she feels about the cause of an organisation she represents.

So far I can't see whether she becomes patron because it's appropriate or expected of her or because she really wants to make a difference and change people view's of, as an example, mental disabilities.
__________________
''A day without a laughter is a day wasted'' // Anna-Lisa
  #420  
Old 01-31-2006, 06:05 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Gianni Versace? How quickly we forget!
Di wasn't pals with Versace until AFTER her marriage ended and she was no longer duty bound to behave like a future queen!

She wasn't seen attending fashion shows while HRH. Correct me if I'm wrong...:)
__________________

Closed Thread

Tags
crown prince frederik, crown princess mary


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark & Mary Donaldson - May 14, 2004 didem Royal Weddings 642 03-10-2017 02:51 AM
May Newsletter: Frederik and Mary Mandy Picture of the Month, Special Features, Blogs and Articles 21 10-17-2005 04:36 PM
Crown Prince Frederik and Mary Donaldson, Current Events 1: September 2002 - May 2004 Lorraine Current Events Archive 506 05-07-2004 12:03 AM




Popular Tags
albania ascot 2016 best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit biography birthday coup d'etat crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion denmark duchess of cambridge duke of cambridge earl of snowdon fashion poll greece infanta elena jewels king abdullah ii king carl gustaf and queen silvia king willem-alexander margrethe ii member introduction member watch mohammed reza monarchy new zealand norway november 2016 october 2016 palaces picture of the week prince charles prince philip princess charlene daytime fashion princess marie princess mary princess mary casual style princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess sofia queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margrethe queen mathilde queen mathilde visits jordan queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania evening dresses queen rania fashion queen silvia september 2016 state visit succession sweden swedish royal family summer portraits 2016 thailand the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats tiara


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:19 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises