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  #301  
Old 01-26-2006, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
But why does she have to "live down" appearing in Vogue? Her detractors may well bring it up for years to come, but if it wasn't Vogue,then it would just be something else. Negatively-inclined detractors will create whatever ammunition they can; the rest of us will shrug our shoulders, wonder what all the fuss is about, and move on.
Well said!
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  #302  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
But why does she have to "live down" appearing in Vogue? Her detractors may well bring it up for years to come, but if it wasn't Vogue, then it would just be something else. Negatively-inclined detractors will create whatever ammunition they can; the rest of us will shrug our shoulders, wonder what all the fuss is about, and move on.
Excellent comments!

Amen
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  #303  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:55 AM
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The word 'sincere' does not come to mind when it comes to Diana. She collaborated with Andrew Morton on a book while denying it to everyone and some of her statements in the Panorama interview did not seem totally honest.

Yet Mary's biggest detractors keep bringing up the interviews and photoshoots that are long in the past. I think its because Mary hasn't done anything recently to confirm their opinions so they keep going back to 2 and 3 year old material.

I think Warren is right, her biggest detractors are going to find any ammunition to support opinions that they already hold and they won't change. For the rest of us, we'll just keep watching Mary evolve and our understanding of Mary will evolve over time as she will.
  #304  
Old 01-26-2006, 11:38 AM
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Mary will eventually mature into her role as the crownprincess. I believe they (stylists and royal advisors) made a big mistake in trying to make her into a celebrity / high fashion model. Mary is a very sporty and outdoors person and they missed the opportunity to make her more real. Celebritys inevitable are scrutinized and rarely do they measure up to the projected image - a sporty young women learning to be a royalty would have captured more Danish hearts.
  #305  
Old 01-26-2006, 11:40 AM
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"I think that is a good reason why people are so polarised about her."

I think that's a very good point Jamerican, personally I find it so odd that people get so excited about an incredibly average woman.
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  #306  
Old 01-26-2006, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
"I think that is a good reason why people are so polarised about her."

I think that's a very good point Jamerican, personally I find it so odd that people get so excited about an incredibly average woman.
Becaue she is incredibly average, I think. She's exactly like us (well, she's slimmer than I but you see what I mean), so it's much easier to imagine ourselves in her place and, like jealous know-it-alls, tell the world what she should do differently because we would do it differently, too.
  #307  
Old 01-26-2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
"I think that is a good reason why people are so polarised about her."

I think that's a very good point Jamerican, personally I find it so odd that people get so excited about an incredibly average woman.
i will agree with you little star. people say she is beautiful but... isn't letizia even more in that case? people say her story is really fairytalish but... isn't in that case mette marit's even more? people say she is elegant, and there's an incredible list of elegant women in the royal world. people also say how grand her work was because she learnt danish, but maxima's story was the same thing, or what a great job she is doing, i really don't know what they mean, and if i do, i don't know why they get so excited about such an average person and average story. i also think the press and probably other factors made her look like a hollywood girl when she is not, and that's why we probably have a wrong image of her (that maybe is not true), but the posing for australian vogue and others didn't help much or the fact that she supported the danish fashion and then used prada a lot. i must say she has that point of fashionable girl that we all like seeing, but i bet the 90% of the women here would look the same disposing of such an extense budget.

i'm sorry to mary's fans but that's how i see it.
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  #308  
Old 01-26-2006, 02:01 PM
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Oh well ! Understandable since you are Letizia's fan. You are forgiven.:p
  #309  
Old 01-26-2006, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
Oh well ! Understandable since you are Letizia's fan. You are forgiven.:p
oh, it's not a matter of being letizia's fan or mary's fan. i like reading about mary and seeing what she is up to, and i'm not a big fan of letizia. it's the same for her... i like knowing what she does and seeing photos of her, just as i like being informed on other princesses and royals because that's why we are here for. to me it's not a competition between the two ladies. if someday i like something mary does and not like something letizia does, i would definetely say it. don't know why you can only be fan of one of them, either mary or letizia.
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  #310  
Old 01-26-2006, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan
Mary will eventually mature into her role as the crownprincess. I believe they (stylists and royal advisors) made a big mistake in trying to make her into a celebrity / high fashion model. Mary is a very sporty and outdoors person and they missed the opportunity to make her more real. Celebritys inevitable are scrutinized and rarely do they measure up to the projected image - a sporty young women learning to be a royalty would have captured more Danish hearts.
I think you're right and I've come to realize that the whole "Vogue episode" probably stems from the following:

First off, Mary came onto the royal scene 'from the cold', as in: she was like most of us, a regular citizen inexperienced with being a subject of the media. If the Vogue thing was unfortunate, it had a lot to do with Mary not being yet savvy enough to understand the importance of media strategy regarding her role vis-a-vis the perception of the audience.

Second, I think you are right and she may have listened to the wrong advisors, initially at least. This also comes down to her inexperience with the whole "being famous" thing.

Third, and perhaps most significant, when Vogue came along and asked her to participate (I imagine it went like that), the only 'mistake', in hindsight, she made in this regard, is simply not saying 'No.'

How was she to know that simply accepting offers from (the wrong?) magazines would come back to haunt her? Queen Rania has posed for Vogue before, and no one is negative about that. In Mary's case, the timing certainly could have been better: it would have made more sense for
Mary to have been first established as the modest, honest, big-hearted girl most of the world would like to see in a crown princess, and <then> go to Vogue, like Diana did. Doing it the other way around made people believe Mary was actively pursuing this path, while the reality most likely is that she didn't.

So the only 'mistake' I think she made in all this was not saying 'no' to media offers. Nothing more, nothing less. I do think however that Diana at the time was much more savvy and cunning towards the media, but let's not forget that she was roaming the rarified world of royals basically from birth, and Mary wasn't.
  #311  
Old 01-26-2006, 04:50 PM
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I don't get this whole Mary/Letizia ''competition'' (I doubt the ladies are aware they're in one:p ). Who made up a rule that said you couldn't like/dislike the both?
  #312  
Old 01-26-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloriana
I don't get this whole Mary/Letizia ''competition'' (I doubt the ladies are aware they're in one:p ). Who made up a rule that said you couldn't like/dislike the both?
well, the thing is that realistically, comparing these two women is practically inevitable on more than one level. Let's face it, both were commoners when they met and married their husbands, who both are crown princes, of Denmark and Spain respectively. To top that off, they managed to have their respective weddings, pregnancy announcements and births of their first borns literally just weeks apart. How can people not compare the two?

the issue though with comparing these two really seems to me that, although both princesses married into modern, Western royal families, these very families differ a lot in their approach. Which is based on and tailored to the histories and cultures and sensitivities of their respective nations. so in a sense, comparing Mary and Letizia in their role as royal consorts is comparing apples and oranges.
  #313  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
The word 'sincere' does not come to mind when it comes to Diana. She collaborated with Andrew Morton on a book while denying it to everyone and some of her statements in the Panorama interview did not seem totally honest.

Yet Mary's biggest detractors keep bringing up the interviews and photoshoots that are long in the past. I think its because Mary hasn't done anything recently to confirm their opinions so they keep going back to 2 and 3 year old material.

I think Warren is right, her biggest detractors are going to find any ammunition to support opinions that they already hold and they won't change. For the rest of us, we'll just keep watching Mary evolve and our understanding of Mary will evolve over time as she will.
I think for some people, that may be the case; I don't think having a balanced view is a bad idea, though. A person can have a favorite actor; that doesn't mean that they have to love every single movie that actor does. The fact that there are people who are still talking about the book that Diana wrote with Andrew Morton, (over 15 years ago, I might add) shows that what a public person does today can echo for a long time into the future, whether they be good things or bad things. (for the record, I think that book was a bad idea, but my opinion on that belongs in another thread).:) Opinions on things a public person does will always differ. For the most part, I think Mary is cool, and I will enjoy watching her progress.
  #314  
Old 01-26-2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamerican
I think for some people, that may be the case; I don't think having a balanced view is a bad idea, though.
I totally agree with you Jamerican. :) Now the only thing right now that bothers me about Mary and Fred is that they made us wait so darned long for the christening for the nameless little prince.
  #315  
Old 01-26-2006, 09:34 PM
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i found this couple a bit shallow and lazy....this is how i feel about them.
  #316  
Old 01-26-2006, 09:44 PM
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I don't understand why people dislike Fred & Mary...but like everything I guess its a matter of personal opinion. I didn't know about Fred & Mary until their wedding, so I can't comment on the Vogue spread, and what I know about their work, they seem to be very committed to Denmark. I mean, wasn't it a couple of months ago that people were criticizing Mary for working so much before she gave birth to Prince Christian? The poor thing can't win!

In regards to the comment that Fred looks like a love lorn fool...maybe he looks like that because he is. He is totally in love with his wife. I wish I could find someone who looks at me like that!

In regards to Mary's stiff smile. I don't know for sure..but I am going to go with the assumption that is the smile she likes when asked to pose. My sister perfected her smile/grin years ago as a teenager, and although I can't stand that particular grin...as a woman in her 30's she is still doing it :) But if you look at other pictures of Mary smiling when its not for a photo call or official photographs..its more natural and giving. I am also going to go out on a limb to say...it must be hard for anyone (royalty or celebrity) to be out in the public eye any time you step out of your front door. You have to smile and be happy whether you feel it or not.
  #317  
Old 01-26-2006, 11:53 PM
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Mary is going to have to live down Vogue because it will be brought up for decades by commentators (not necessarily detractors, but even those of us who don't give a flip about her) unless she succeeds in altering her public image. She's been branded as a fashion princess (even though MM seems much more extravagant in my eyes and no one compares to Caroline or Marie-Chantal in shopping) and she must realise that's not the best image for her (even Diana was criticised for her spending -- by the same press and public who initially praised her for her fashion sense).

I think a lot of the criticism stems from the lack of apparent activity. Their schedule doesn't stand comparison to any other crown princely couples except the Norwegians. The heirs to the Belgian, British, Dutch, Swedish and Spanish thrones are all out there in public much more than Fred & Mary. Some of you will argue that you can't compare monarchies and schedules, but that comparison is inevitable.

Some of the comparitive lightness of scheduling will have to do with Denmark's position in the world (it lacks anything remotely approaching the sphere of influence the UK and Spain can command so they lack a built-in group of nations clamouring for visits), the role of the monarchy in Denmark and the size of the Danish court (Charles alone employs almost as many people as the entire Danish court).
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  #318  
Old 01-26-2006, 11:56 PM
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I agree that the this whole "Mary only seems to promote fashion" argument is not worth it. Just because she appeared in Vogue does not mean she only promotes fashion. She does a lot of news-worthy stuff but the photographers and newspapers might get more excited about a princess at a runway with a bunch of beautiful people than Mary visiting a hospital. That might be a little sad but it's a fact of life. Besides, fashion is a major part of the economic system. Ever since Mary came along, she boosted the fashion industry. And I'm NOT trying to compare the two princesses (I love them both), but doesn't Alexandra promote fashion as well (we've seen her sitting besides some catwalks) and has her own fashion school (well one named after her and gets some of her outfits from them) but I don't see people giving Alexandra any major grief. Plus this whole Mary vs. Letizia thing is just weird to me. Yes, their major life events were only weeks apart but they are two different women, crownprincesses of two different countries, both beautiful and representing their respective countries wonderfully in their own way.
  #319  
Old 01-27-2006, 12:01 AM
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I don't think there's anything that bothers me about Fred and Mary. I think they'er a very mordern couple, very much in love with a beautiful son.
  #320  
Old 01-27-2006, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly9480
I think a lot of the criticism stems from the lack of apparent activity. Their schedule doesn't stand comparison to any other crown princely couples except the Norwegians. The heirs to the Belgian, British, Dutch, Swedish and Spanish thrones are all out there in public much more than Fred & Mary. Some of you will argue that you can't compare monarchies and schedules, but that comparison is inevitable.
I am a fan of Mary's. Much of the criticism has been because Mary has made some PR errors, which is understandable. She is learning. She is highly intelligent and a much more forceful person than Frederik. She reminds me of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, very much running the show.Her drawback is when she gets too cocky - then she looks supercilious, which is a shame.

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