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  #61  
Old 06-14-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote "she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children"

i know alot of women that can say that(except the taxes, they don't pay their fair share) and some of them are the most miserable, sad people, because there's always something else they "want" and always "keeping up" with what others have.

Mary has no money worries but as a human being i'm sure she has worries about her childrens safety, her families health, support for her husband, her basic priorities, (i would imagine she is pulled in many directions at once constantly) and finding enough time in the day (every woman i know does) i've heard and read many times her compulsion to be prepared, to do her best,quest for information and details. Frederik was quoted she asks questions all time. personally i would find it "hard work" dressing up and meeting strangers everyday, much less having to stand up and speak in a second language. i envy the perts but i wouldn't want the strings attached, i think she's doing a great job and in no smart part, because she makes it look "easy" and comes prepared.
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  #62  
Old 06-14-2008, 11:03 AM
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I still would take this "hard work"with a grain of salt. After all, she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children. She is very, very, very privileged and basically doesn't have to worry about a thing.
She has to worry about her actions, about the way ppl are reacting on her. I´d guess this is consuming a lot more energy than the life of Misses Pedersen, 30y, living in an average district of Copenhagen, having 2 children and an average family income.
I wouldn´t want to trade places with Mary. Even though waiting in the queue at the supermarket is not always fun...and even though cleaning windows is even less
I am sometimes wondering, if she would choose the same life again. She often strikes me as stressed and as if she could still not ignore the cameras (something, which probably most ppl with 30y. of an anonymous life couldn´t...but some can)

But I would also not speak of "hard work". Both have a lot of time to get some sleep, to gain a balance in things of motion and resting, they don´t get regularly in touch with toxic chemicals, they get enough sunlight, they live in a place with a lot of "green area", they can go to places all over the world, the have the money for extended spare time activities, they can take a break of their TTTs (tantrum throwing toddlers) and so on. Speaking of "hard work" in connection with the Scandi Royals is IMO downright rude to ppl, who really work hard.

Nonetheless...I wouldn´t trade...
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  #63  
Old 06-14-2008, 12:49 PM
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Speaking of "hard work" in connection with the Scandi Royals is IMO downright rude to ppl, who really work hard.
And I think it is a bit rude to presume that just because a person doesn't work in hazards conditions that they don't work hard. Most people in the western world work in safe, clean environments but that doesn't mean that they don't work hard at their jobs. Just because a job isn't particularly hard work doesn't mean you can't work hard at it.

In regards to Mary and Frederik, I'm not dismissing the luxury and privileges they have, nor am I under the impression that their job is particularly strenuous but that doesn't mean that they don't give their all to their organizations and work hard with them.
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:59 PM
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Are we discussing the quality of their work or the amount of work they do? because they can work very little and do a very excellent job, or they can have many public events and be just ribbon cutters. I think they need to find a balance between the two so that they don't give the impression (remember that everybody's reality is not the same) that they are just interested in sailing and fashion.
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  #65  
Old 06-14-2008, 01:53 PM
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Somehow I get the impression that this whole discussion derives from the fact that Mary appears to some people to be an overachiever who is very concentrated, determined and controlled in what she does in order to get it right. Most people don't like such persons, especially if they perceive the sucess of this person to be coming from chance rather than own effort - in this case through marriage.

While I understand this impression I tend to see the other side: Mary tries very hard to fit in and to be the "picture-perfect princess". Probably she herself thinks that she has been given a position she did not earn for herself but was given it through her connection with frederick. So she tries to make up for it. The fact that we don't see her so much out and about IMHO is based on the fact that she really prepares hard for every event, that she really tries to be perfect all the time and can only manage so much.
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  #66  
Old 06-14-2008, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Somehow I get the impression that this whole discussion derives from the fact that Mary appears to some people to be an overachiever who is very concentrated, determined and controlled in what she does in order to get it right. Most people don't like such persons, especially if they perceive the sucess of this person to be coming from chance rather than own effort - in this case through marriage.

While I understand this impression I tend to see the other side: Mary tries very hard to fit in and to be the "picture-perfect princess". Probably she herself thinks that she has been given a position she did not earn for herself but was given it through her connection with frederick. So she tries to make up for it. The fact that we don't see her so much out and about IMHO is based on the fact that she really prepares hard for every event, that she really tries to be perfect all the time and can only manage so much.
Very good point Jo of Palatine. Mary very much tries to fit in and be perfect.Like trying to be a grown up version of Cinderella.
Maybe it would be better for her to put not that much pressure on herself and try to be a little bit more authentic. It's the small mistakes and tiny imperfect things that make people like you. Perfection is boring.
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  #67  
Old 06-14-2008, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Santacruz View Post
Very good point Jo of Palatine. Mary very much tries to fit in and be perfect.Like trying to be a grown up version of Cinderella.
Maybe it would be better for her to put not that much pressure on herself and try to be a little bit more authentic. It's the small mistakes and tiny imperfect things that make people like you. Perfection is boring.
I'll guess we have to wait and see what will happen: maybe she loosens up a bit (which would be good, IMHO) or she gets more and more inner stress over the years as really: nobody can be perfect all the time.

A quote from the documentary about princess Marie comes to mind: Marie' s former headmaster at her boardingschool told how Marie was always in trouble because she was found at the wrong time at the wrong place in school: he laughed about it and said that whenever Marie was found, she had perfectly good reasons to be there at that particular times and was able to convince all that she was right in being there then. I do hope that Marie will bring the same aplomb and joie de vivre to her new life and that Mary will see that it's possible to be a loved member of that family even when one is not perfect.
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  #68  
Old 06-14-2008, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I'll guess we have to wait and see what will happen: maybe she loosens up a bit (which would be good, IMHO) or she gets more and more inner stress over the years as really: nobody can be perfect all the time.

A quote from the documentary about princess Marie comes to mind: Marie' s former headmaster at her boardingschool told how Marie was always in trouble because she was found at the wrong time at the wrong place in school: he laughed about it and said that whenever Marie was found, she had perfectly good reasons to be there at that particular times and was able to convince all that she was right in being there then. I do hope that Marie will bring the same aplomb and joie de vivre to her new life and that Mary will see that it's possible to be a loved member of that family even when one is not perfect.

I hope not; otherwise she will be a complete and utter embarrassment to the DRF ala Sarah, the Duchess of York when she was married to Andrew. Such a shame... a very cringeworthy time.

Best that Marie learn the in's and out's of what it means to be a royal. She has no room to make embarrassing mistakes and thus proceeding to squirm her way out of it with childish excuses.

Now, back on topic: I'm looking forward to her first three official events with Prince Joachim in the upcoming weeks, and I'm sure she'll do well.
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  #69  
Old 06-14-2008, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Santacruz View Post
Very good point Jo of Palatine. Mary very much tries to fit in and be perfect.Like trying to be a grown up version of Cinderella.
Maybe it would be better for her to put not that much pressure on herself and try to be a little bit more authentic. It's the small mistakes and tiny imperfect things that make people like you. Perfection is boring.
Then if she messed up people would be all over her for not doing her job properly. I can just hear it now. Does she not know protocol! She is a perfectionist that is her lot in life. If she prefers to be that way so be it.

She has turned into a very valuable assett to the DRF and the country of Denmark. Denmark was not on my top ten to see before I die, now it is.
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
......... maybe she loosens up a bit (which would be good, IMHO) or she gets more and more inner stress over the years as really: nobody can be perfect all the time.........
I don't know, I think that when the situation calls for it she can be more relaxed, less professional e.g. last Sunday at the Anti-bullying race with the children and very professional when she needs to be e.g. when at the women's shelter on Thursday or in Slovenia when she was profession when meeting officials and attending the conference, yet relaxed when playing with the children before they received their vaccinations.

Personally I have always gotten the impression that Mary saw being Crown Princess as her job, she is being paid by the Danish people and feels that she should do her very best for them by being professional, by being well prepared and by giving the very best that she can give to them. Of course I may be reading her wrongly but this has always been the impression that she has given me and one of the things I have always liked about her.
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  #71  
Old 06-14-2008, 06:56 PM
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Mette-Marit promotes Anti-Aids issues (she has visited some countries where Aids really is a problem to raise awareness). These issues are in way political as well. And by the way, both have children about the same age as Mary's kids are. And Mette-Marit is a commoner just as Mary with even a lesser education than Mary has :-)
IMO Mette-Marit has done much more for mental health issues and isolation og people on "the edge of society" than she has for AIDS. This was the first patronage she got straight after the wedding and not a politically correct one, and she has worked with this issue since day one and IMO made a difference (big or smal I wont say) in Norway on this subject. AIDS is important as well, but it is such a huge problem it is very difficult for a person, royal or not, from a small scandinavian country, to make a major difference. (OK, if everyone think like that it does not become less of a problem I admitt )

I think Haakon has worked alot more to promote his international "gig", the UN millenium goals, than Mette-Marit has with UNAIDS, but because he does not very pretty (or frumpy) dresses or shoes he has been able to visit all the 19 countys of Norway to talk about it to school classes, made several trips to other countries, contributed to the UN devellopment report and combined it is not getting half the attention as Mette-Marits trip to Malawi. So I think actually both Mary and Mette-Marit (and others) can have more impact in their own countries than abroad.

One thing I dont agree with is that the number of patronages is a meassure of how good a royal you are, you can spread yourself to wide. Henrik must have atleast 100 patronages and he hardly has any "profile" at all IMO. For me his work seems rather random, whilst Silvia and Sonja who both have fewer patronages has much stronger profiles and IMO seems more effective promoting their causes. (Not that I dont like Henrik, actually I find him terrible underrated but sometimes I got to wonder what he is really interested in except food, wine and dogs)
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  #72  
Old 06-15-2008, 03:17 AM
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Not that I dont like Henrik, actually I find him terrible underrated but sometimes I got to wonder what he is really interested in except food, wine and dogs)
Like all good French patriarchs, he is interested in his grand-children...
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  #73  
Old 06-16-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Santacruz View Post
Very good point Jo of Palatine. Mary very much tries to fit in and be perfect.Like trying to be a grown up version of Cinderella.
Maybe it would be better for her to put not that much pressure on herself and try to be a little bit more authentic. It's the small mistakes and tiny imperfect things that make people like you. Perfection is boring.
How did you get from "not convincing" and "nothing important to say" to "perfection is boring"? Someone who is not convincing isn't perfect, is he/she?

Quote:
Jo of Palatine
A quote from the documentary about princess Marie comes to mind: Marie' s former headmaster at her boardingschool told how Marie was always in trouble because she was found at the wrong time at the wrong place in school: he laughed about it and said that whenever Marie was found, she had perfectly good reasons to be there at that particular times and was able to convince all that she was right in being there then. I do hope that Marie will bring the same aplomb and joie de vivre to her new life and that Mary will see that it's possible to be a loved member of that family even when one is not perfect.
I have to agree with Glittering Tiara here.
The things the headmaster said about Marie are actually those parts in the documentary who made me a bit sceptical. I only hope that Marie has grown up in the meantime.
Anyhow, if Mary had shown as many imperfections as Marie has done already, I am sure she would not be crownprincess and a loved member of that family by now. IMO all those imperfections of Marie were only acceptable because she is not going to be queen.
Mary had/has about 50 times more pressure on her than Marie I would say. Perhaps she would be more relaxed if she would be the 2nd wife of a 2nd son. And perhaps Marie would look less relaxed if she had married the crownprince.
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  #74  
Old 06-16-2008, 02:37 PM
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I
What Mary seems to forget is, that esp. women (of course not some here) are quite happy about other women having some "flaws".
This might be Mette Marit´s anti ballet dancer posture, Madeleine wearing an European size 40 or 42 instead of being stick thin, Maxima laughing so unlady like, Mathilde wearing clothes, that show very well, that she had given birth several times...this makes them pleasantly harmless and like human beings seeming. A princess, who has a boisterous side (like Christina, Maxima or Victoria) or one, who seems quite motherly like Mathilde will it always have easy...and therefore there are no anti boards on them out there...if that is now fair or unfair is an other question...
So if Mary does not fit into the 'attractive flaws' mould, can her more reticent nature - which is by some seen as a flaw and as an attempt to always appear 'perfect' - not be raised to become an acceptable flaw then - or what should we do about her? Start a popular demand for her to slouch at selected public events, stuff her head with Danish pastry to achieve the requested increase, or practice the wide-tooth grin in front of the mirror before she leaves her house....
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Old 06-16-2008, 03:16 PM
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So if Mary does not fit into the 'attractive flaws' mould, can her more reticent nature - which is by some seen as a flaw and as an attempt to always appear 'perfect' - not be raised to become an acceptable flaw then - or what should we do about her? Start a popular demand for her to slouch at selected public events, stuff her head with Danish pastry to achieve the requested increase, or practice the wide-tooth grin in front of the mirror before she leaves her house....
She should get a tattoo - right on top of her nose - a picture of Frederik perhaps
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  #76  
Old 06-16-2008, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UserDane View Post
So if Mary does not fit into the 'attractive flaws' mould, can her more reticent nature - which is by some seen as a flaw and as an attempt to always appear 'perfect' - not be raised to become an acceptable flaw then - or what should we do about her? Start a popular demand for her to slouch at selected public events, stuff her head with Danish pastry to achieve the requested increase, or practice the wide-tooth grin in front of the mirror before she leaves her house....

I for one don't think she has a reticent nature, on the contrary, she's never been backward in coming forward, even from day one of her introduction to Crown Prince Frederik at the Slip Inn, she's just changed the tactic to fit the title.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:24 PM
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Or can you show me where I said that Mary is relaxed?
I said she has a lot of pressure on her (more than Marie) and that she might be more relaxed if she had less pressure.
(ricarda the following isn't a "critic" to your message)
Maybe if Mary wouldn't have been compared with the most "outstanding, perfect, marvelous, beautiful, incredible hard working princess that Denmark ever has had" the untouchable princess Alexandra, Mary could be much more relaxed then she appears? After all a lot people predicted that Mary just couldn't hold a candle to Alexandra. After the announcement of the divorce quite a few things have changed. It must be hard to cope with that.

Nonetheless what have the last messages to do with the work schedule? I admit I'm quilty for some sidetracking too.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:27 PM
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I remember when the engagement of Mary & Frederick was announced, Prince Henrik gave an interview and said that Mary could learn a lot from Princess Alexandra. I am sure that went over rather well, considering the developments a couple of months later.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:40 PM
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The Crown Prince Couple's Choice of Patronages.

This is the topic where you discuss the issue of the Crown Prince Couple's choice of patronages.

The overall discourse could address these issues and what are your thoughts about them:
  • Influences - what helped determine which patronages they undertook.
    Objectives - have they reached some of their goals.
    Work ethics
    Style of delivery
    Cultural involvement
    Political involvement as opposed to other CPCs as well as other royals from around the world.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:53 PM
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Quote "she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children"

i know alot of women that can say that(except the taxes, they don't pay their fair share) and some of them are the most miserable, sad people, because there's always something else they "want" and always "keeping up" with what others have.

Mary has no money worries but as a human being i'm sure she has worries about her childrens safety, her families health, support for her husband, her basic priorities, (i would imagine she is pulled in many directions at once constantly) and finding enough time in the day (every woman i know does) i've heard and read many times her compulsion to be prepared, to do her best,quest for information and details. Frederik was quoted she asks questions all time. personally i would find it "hard work" dressing up and meeting strangers everyday, much less having to stand up and speak in a second language. i envy the perts but i wouldn't want the strings attached, i think she's doing a great job and in no smart part, because she makes it look "easy" and comes prepared.
I certainly agree -- plus I certainly would not want a camera in my face whenever I leave the house!

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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Somehow I get the impression that this whole discussion derives from the fact that Mary appears to some people to be an overachiever who is very concentrated, determined and controlled in what she does in order to get it right. Most people don't like such persons, especially if they perceive the sucess of this person to be coming from chance rather than own effort - in this case through marriage.

While I understand this impression I tend to see the other side: Mary tries very hard to fit in and to be the "picture-perfect princess". Probably she herself thinks that she has been given a position she did not earn for herself but was given it through her connection with frederick. So she tries to make up for it. The fact that we don't see her so much out and about IMHO is based on the fact that she really prepares hard for every event, that she really tries to be perfect all the time and can only manage so much.
Yes, I think that Mary is an overachiever and I give her all the credit in the world for it. I believe the world would be a better place if more were like her.

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Originally Posted by UserDane View Post
So if Mary does not fit into the 'attractive flaws' mould, can her more reticent nature - which is by some seen as a flaw and as an attempt to always appear 'perfect' - not be raised to become an acceptable flaw then - or what should we do about her? Start a popular demand for her to slouch at selected public events, stuff her head with Danish pastry to achieve the requested increase, or practice the wide-tooth grin in front of the mirror before she leaves her house....
UserDane you are so funny -- stuffing with pastry, slouching and grinning like silly -- but I just bet that there are some that would say "lovely, now she is normal and not trying to be perfect!" Gee Whiz, what a world!

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She should get a tattoo - right on top of her nose - a picture of Frederik perhaps
You people have be laughing out loud!
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