The Crown Prince Couple's Choice of Patronages.

[Amelia]

But as Santacruz mentioned before, it is not Mary who is doing the "job". This is done by others.

I said this to Santacruz and I will say it again to you, you do not know what job Mary does behind the scenes, how involved she is. Maybe she doesn't see them from one event to another but we don't know either way.

When I think of the late Princess Diana or Queen Rania, for example, I not only think of glamour, scandals and fashion - I also do think of landmines, AIDS, poverty and women's rights. Diana was and Rania is quite active here.
When I think Mary, I only think of fashion and style. For someone who is as highly educated as Mary is, this can be no compliment.

Yet when I think of Diana, I think of a manipulative, mentally unstable woman, Rania to me is a woman who is, above all else, only interested in promoting herself. Did Diana do some wonderful things? Absolutely. Does Rania? Yes. Does the fact you see Mary as someone that is only interested in fashion and style mean that the work she is doing is ineffective and lacking. No it doesn't. It just means that Mary and her charities are working together in a way that fits for them which happens to differ from the way that you would do it.

[Amelia]

Also, most royal houses in Europe (the one more, the other lesser) do have influential power though they are not the ones who decide.

The DRF do not take part in politics and do not express political opinions. See the reaction to Frederik's possible IOC membership for an good example of what happens when people think they are being too political.

[Naggi]

Originally Posted by Amelia

The DRF do not take part in politics and do not express political opinions. See the reaction to Frederik's possible IOC membership for an good example of what happens when people think they are being too political.

Amelia, you are right. But I was not talking about political involvement, but about cultural and humanitarian influence - which is allowed for royals to do :-)

For example, Willem-Alexander was for years active in the field of "water", Mette-Marit promotes Anti-Aids issues (she has visited some countries where Aids really is a problem to raise awareness). These issues are in way political as well. And by the way, both have children about the same age as Mary's kids are. And Mette-Marit is a commoner just as Mary with even a lesser education than Mary has :-)

I think the issue with Frederik and the IOC was indirectly seen, more complex, as in a certain way, he wanted to make his hobby (sports) to his profession (but I am not quite sure here).

[Larzen]

Originally Posted by Naggi

Mette-Marit promotes Anti-Aids issues (she has visited some countries where Aids really is a problem to raise awareness). These issues are in way political as well. And by the way, both have children about the same age as Mary's kids are. And Mette-Marit is a commoner just as Mary with even a lesser education than Mary has :-)

IMO Mette-Marit has done much more for mental health issues and isolation og people on "the edge of society" than she has for AIDS. This was the first patronage she got straight after the wedding and not a politically correct one, and she has worked with this issue since day one and IMO made a difference (big or smal I wont say) in Norway on this subject. AIDS is important as well, but it is such a huge problem it is very difficult for a person, royal or not, from a small scandinavian country, to make a major difference. (OK, if everyone think like that it does not become less of a problem I admitt )

I think Haakon has worked alot more to promote his international "gig", the UN millenium goals, than Mette-Marit has with UNAIDS, but because he does not very pretty (or frumpy) dresses or shoes he has been able to visit all the 19 countys of Norway to talk about it to school classes, made several trips to other countries, contributed to the UN devellopment report and combined it is not getting half the attention as Mette-Marits trip to Malawi. So I think actually both Mary and Mette-Marit (and others) can have more impact in their own countries than abroad.

One thing I dont agree with is that the number of patronages is a meassure of how good a royal you are, you can spread yourself to wide. Henrik must have atleast 100 patronages and he hardly has any "profile" at all IMO. For me his work seems rather random, whilst Silvia and Sonja who both have fewer patronages has much stronger profiles and IMO seems more effective promoting their causes. (Not that I dont like Henrik, actually I find him terrible underrated but sometimes I got to wonder what he is really interested in except food, wine and dogs)

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Larzen

Not that I dont like Henrik, actually I find him terrible underrated but sometimes I got to wonder what he is really interested in except food, wine and dogs)

Like all good French patriarchs, he is interested in his grand-children...

[dee4855]

If I remember correctly Diana's and Raina's children are a little older than CP Mary. They seemed to stay closer to home when their children were much younger. Give her a chance to get her feet under her and find her way. She is doing a wonderful job so far. At least she is trying. That is more than some do for their country or sommunity. <Removed off topic questions and comments ~ GT>

[Amelia]

Why than, not talking about their public good deeds

I believe that Mary has just addressed the misconception that they are only working when attending public events in the new book published on Frederik for his 40 birthday.

[Amelia]

I think the issue with Frederik and the IOC was indirectly seen, more complex, as in a certain way, he wanted to make his hobby (sports) to his profession (but I am not quite sure here).

No the issue was politics and how Frederik has no place in it.

Mette-Marit promotes Anti-Aids issues (she has visited some countries where Aids really is a problem to raise awareness)

Mary promotes mental health issues, she doesn't need to leave Denmark to find a place where it is really an issue. Mary promotes anti-bullying programmes, she doesn't need to leave Denmark to find a place where it is really an issue. The Rare Disorders, Brain Injury Association, Heart Association, Kidney Association, Stroke Association all humanitarian causes that she doesn't need to leave Denmark to find a country where they are really an issue. Mary works in Denmark, to help the people of Denmark - she is the Crown Princess of Denmark after all. If Mette-Marit works with Aids then that is wonderful, it is a geat cause but no more worthy than any of the ones that Mary is involved with.

[Amelia]

Mary has a clear emphases on bringing awareness to those who find themselves excluded for whatever reason, be it due to injury, illness, immigration, bullying, an abusive relationship. It is a subject that she feels strongly on, a subject that she has talked about and is the main focus of The Mary Foundation. It doesn't have the celebrity profile of working with Aids, the political association of Micro-Credit and it probably won't ever put her on Oprah but it something she has a strong opinion on and it helps the people of her country, which is what it about at the end of the day.

[Winnie]

I can see that this conversation will always be with us. Some like Mary and Fred and other hate them. So be it, but to fault their selection of causes is stupid to even be mentioned. Mary feels very strongly about children and bullying, mental health, brain injuries, etc. That is her causes. If people don't like that, tough, let them get out and do something about the other causes. I for one am sick of all the hoop-la over Aids. Everytime I turn around another wealthy star is asking for money for its research. Since the entertainment industry has billions, let them foot the bill. I personally think cancer is more important to the average person. But, to a mother, bullying is quite serious. Maybe MM is interested in Aids because she knew people in her prior life (before becoming a princess) with that awful complaint. I don't but I do know plenty with cancer (my husband for one) and children that have been bullied at school. People take causes that are close to them--not just politically correct and I applaud Mary for this.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Saphire

I also said that I don't know how much work they do behind closed doors. Just because I have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, it does not make it wrong.

The problem is IMHO that we have a quote here from the Crown Princess where she talks about her work. So you seem to be saying that Mary is lying when she says that she works behind closed doors - and other poster points out that you can't know that. For me it is simply not correct to claim people are lying when you don't have proof for that but only your opinion.

[sneeuwklokje]

I still would take this "hard work"with a grain of salt. After all, she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children. She is very, very, very privileged and basically doesn't have to worry about a thing.

[Lena]

Originally Posted by sneeuwklokje

I still would take this "hard work"with a grain of salt. After all, she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children. She is very, very, very privileged and basically doesn't have to worry about a thing.

She has to worry about her actions, about the way ppl are reacting on her. I´d guess this is consuming a lot more energy than the life of Misses Pedersen, 30y, living in an average district of Copenhagen, having 2 children and an average family income.
I wouldn´t want to trade places with Mary. Even though waiting in the queue at the supermarket is not always fun...and even though cleaning windows is even less
I am sometimes wondering, if she would choose the same life again. She often strikes me as stressed and as if she could still not ignore the cameras (something, which probably most ppl with 30y. of an anonymous life couldn´t...but some can)

But I would also not speak of "hard work". Both have a lot of time to get some sleep, to gain a balance in things of motion and resting, they don´t get regularly in touch with toxic chemicals, they get enough sunlight, they live in a place with a lot of "green area", they can go to places all over the world, the have the money for extended spare time activities, they can take a break of their TTTs (tantrum throwing toddlers) and so on. Speaking of "hard work" in connection with the Scandi Royals is IMO downright rude to ppl, who really work hard.

Nonetheless...I wouldn´t trade...

[bbb]

Quote "she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children"

i know alot of women that can say that(except the taxes, they don't pay their fair share) and some of them are the most miserable, sad people, because there's always something else they "want" and always "keeping up" with what others have.

Mary has no money worries but as a human being i'm sure she has worries about her childrens safety, her families health, support for her husband, her basic priorities, (i would imagine she is pulled in many directions at once constantly) and finding enough time in the day (every woman i know does) i've heard and read many times her compulsion to be prepared, to do her best,quest for information and details. Frederik was quoted she asks questions all time. personally i would find it "hard work" dressing up and meeting strangers everyday, much less having to stand up and speak in a second language. i envy the perts but i wouldn't want the strings attached, i think she's doing a great job and in no smart part, because she makes it look "easy" and comes prepared.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by bbb

Quote "she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children"

i know alot of women that can say that(except the taxes, they don't pay their fair share) and some of them are the most miserable, sad people, because there's always something else they "want" and always "keeping up" with what others have.

Mary has no money worries but as a human being i'm sure she has worries about her childrens safety, her families health, support for her husband, her basic priorities, (i would imagine she is pulled in many directions at once constantly) and finding enough time in the day (every woman i know does) i've heard and read many times her compulsion to be prepared, to do her best,quest for information and details. Frederik was quoted she asks questions all time. personally i would find it "hard work" dressing up and meeting strangers everyday, much less having to stand up and speak in a second language. i envy the perts but i wouldn't want the strings attached, i think she's doing a great job and in no smart part, because she makes it look "easy" and comes prepared.

I certainly agree -- plus I certainly would not want a camera in my face whenever I leave the house!

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Somehow I get the impression that this whole discussion derives from the fact that Mary appears to some people to be an overachiever who is very concentrated, determined and controlled in what she does in order to get it right. Most people don't like such persons, especially if they perceive the sucess of this person to be coming from chance rather than own effort - in this case through marriage.

While I understand this impression I tend to see the other side: Mary tries very hard to fit in and to be the "picture-perfect princess". Probably she herself thinks that she has been given a position she did not earn for herself but was given it through her connection with frederick. So she tries to make up for it. The fact that we don't see her so much out and about IMHO is based on the fact that she really prepares hard for every event, that she really tries to be perfect all the time and can only manage so much.

Yes, I think that Mary is an overachiever and I give her all the credit in the world for it. I believe the world would be a better place if more were like her.

Originally Posted by UserDane

So if Mary does not fit into the 'attractive flaws' mould, can her more reticent nature - which is by some seen as a flaw and as an attempt to always appear 'perfect' - not be raised to become an acceptable flaw then - or what should we do about her? Start a popular demand for her to slouch at selected public events, stuff her head with Danish pastry to achieve the requested increase, or practice the wide-tooth grin in front of the mirror before she leaves her house....

UserDane you are so funny -- stuffing with pastry, slouching and grinning like silly -- but I just bet that there are some that would say "lovely, now she is normal and not trying to be perfect!" Gee Whiz, what a world!

Originally Posted by Lilla

She should get a tattoo - right on top of her nose - a picture of Frederik perhaps

You people have be laughing out loud!

[Amelia]

Speaking of "hard work" in connection with the Scandi Royals is IMO downright rude to ppl, who really work hard.

And I think it is a bit rude to presume that just because a person doesn't work in hazards conditions that they don't work hard. Most people in the western world work in safe, clean environments but that doesn't mean that they don't work hard at their jobs. Just because a job isn't particularly hard work doesn't mean you can't work hard at it.

In regards to Mary and Frederik, I'm not dismissing the luxury and privileges they have, nor am I under the impression that their job is particularly strenuous but that doesn't mean that they don't give their all to their organizations and work hard with them.

[sunsh1n3]

Are we discussing the quality of their work or the amount of work they do? because they can work very little and do a very excellent job, or they can have many public events and be just ribbon cutters. I think they need to find a balance between the two so that they don't give the impression (remember that everybody's reality is not the same) that they are just interested in sailing and fashion.

[Jo of Palatine]

Somehow I get the impression that this whole discussion derives from the fact that Mary appears to some people to be an overachiever who is very concentrated, determined and controlled in what she does in order to get it right. Most people don't like such persons, especially if they perceive the sucess of this person to be coming from chance rather than own effort - in this case through marriage.

While I understand this impression I tend to see the other side: Mary tries very hard to fit in and to be the "picture-perfect princess". Probably she herself thinks that she has been given a position she did not earn for herself but was given it through her connection with frederick. So she tries to make up for it. The fact that we don't see her so much out and about IMHO is based on the fact that she really prepares hard for every event, that she really tries to be perfect all the time and can only manage so much.

[Santacruz]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Somehow I get the impression that this whole discussion derives from the fact that Mary appears to some people to be an overachiever who is very concentrated, determined and controlled in what she does in order to get it right. Most people don't like such persons, especially if they perceive the sucess of this person to be coming from chance rather than own effort - in this case through marriage.

While I understand this impression I tend to see the other side: Mary tries very hard to fit in and to be the "picture-perfect princess". Probably she herself thinks that she has been given a position she did not earn for herself but was given it through her connection with frederick. So she tries to make up for it. The fact that we don't see her so much out and about IMHO is based on the fact that she really prepares hard for every event, that she really tries to be perfect all the time and can only manage so much.

Very good point Jo of Palatine. Mary very much tries to fit in and be perfect.Like trying to be a grown up version of Cinderella.
Maybe it would be better for her to put not that much pressure on herself and try to be a little bit more authentic. It's the small mistakes and tiny imperfect things that make people like you. Perfection is boring.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Santacruz

Very good point Jo of Palatine. Mary very much tries to fit in and be perfect.Like trying to be a grown up version of Cinderella.
Maybe it would be better for her to put not that much pressure on herself and try to be a little bit more authentic. It's the small mistakes and tiny imperfect things that make people like you. Perfection is boring.

I'll guess we have to wait and see what will happen: maybe she loosens up a bit (which would be good, IMHO) or she gets more and more inner stress over the years as really: nobody can be perfect all the time.

A quote from the documentary about princess Marie comes to mind: Marie' s former headmaster at her boardingschool told how Marie was always in trouble because she was found at the wrong time at the wrong place in school: he laughed about it and said that whenever Marie was found, she had perfectly good reasons to be there at that particular times and was able to convince all that she was right in being there then. I do hope that Marie will bring the same aplomb and joie de vivre to her new life and that Mary will see that it's possible to be a loved member of that family even when one is not perfect.