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  #41  
Old 06-11-2008, 05:53 PM
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Why than, not talking about their public good deeds
I believe that Mary has just addressed the misconception that they are only working when attending public events in the new book published on Frederik for his 40 birthday.
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  #42  
Old 06-11-2008, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
The DRF do not take part in politics and do not express political opinions. See the reaction to Frederik's possible IOC membership for an good example of what happens when people think they are being too political.
Amelia, you are right. But I was not talking about political involvement, but about cultural and humanitarian influence - which is allowed for royals to do :-)

For example, Willem-Alexander was for years active in the field of "water", Mette-Marit promotes Anti-Aids issues (she has visited some countries where Aids really is a problem to raise awareness). These issues are in way political as well. And by the way, both have children about the same age as Mary's kids are. And Mette-Marit is a commoner just as Mary with even a lesser education than Mary has :-)

I think the issue with Frederik and the IOC was indirectly seen, more complex, as in a certain way, he wanted to make his hobby (sports) to his profession (but I am not quite sure here).
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  #43  
Old 06-11-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
But as Santacruz mentioned before, it is not Mary who is doing the "job". This is done by others.
Santacruz has made a claim but not supported it by any evidence. What precisely makes you believe her claim that it is not Mary who is doing the job??

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Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
When it comes to integration matters for example, I wished she would be more active on subjects like the difficulties in learning a new language or coping with a new culture. She could try to raise understanding for the situation of immigrants by doing that. Because she would than not appear as a princess but as an immigrant herself. She could see herself more as a bridge between immigrants and the Danes. She could demonstrately visit those countries from where the immigrants come from and try to raise cultural awareness within the Danish society for others. Queen Beatrix and Princess Maxima did this when they visited Turkey a couple of years ago and also stayed in "non-tourist" places and cities from where it was known that some immigrated to the Netherlands. To be honest, this impressed me.
I find it difficult not to say impossible to expect each CPss to do the same thing as other CPss are doing.
I was impressed when Mary, with a small nursing baby in a room nearby, spent 7 hours attending a conference for the mentally ill - a group which has not had any high profile in the media picture here. She hardly did that for appearance's sake.

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Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
When I think of the late Princess Diana or Queen Rania, for example, I not only think of glamour, scandals and fashion - I also do think of landmines, AIDS, poverty and women's rights. Diana was and Rania is quite active here.
When I think Mary, I only think of fashion and style. For someone who is as highly educated as Mary is, this canot be enough.
I don't get the same pictures of Diana and Rania as you do; I am afraid that to me it is very difficult to distinguish between Diana's media stunts and her sincere projects. Rania mostly makes me wonder that such a small country with a population that to my mind is not wealthy as a whole, has a queen that dresses so ostentiously expensively. But then again - impressions are objective and there is no way we can explain why one person comes across in one way to you but in a quite opposite way to me.

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Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
For example, Willem-Alexander was for years active in the field of "water", Mette-Marit promotes Anti-Aids issues (she has visited some countries where Aids really is a problem to raise awareness). These issues are in way political as well. And by the way, both have children about the same age as Mary's kids are. And Mette-Marit is a commoner just as Mary with even a lesser education than Mary has :-).
Again I have to wonder who should prioritize here? Sure, the aids work is important - but it does not make Mary a lesser person that one of her peers is involved in a cause that she herself has not taken up. If e.g. Mette-Marit is not involved in causes for the mentally ill or those with brain damage as Mary is - does that then make Mette-Marit a lesser CPss? Should we now complain if Maxima or Letizia do not start up anti-bullying programs in the schools in their respective countries - just because Mary has in Denmark?

Why not accept that the CPss do different jobs?

Moreover, it bothers me if a CPss has to take on causes with a high media profile in order to be acknowledged for her efforts!
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  #44  
Old 06-11-2008, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UserDane View Post
Santacruz has made a claim but not supported it by any evidence. What precisely makes you believe her claim that it is not Mary who is doing the job??


I find it difficult not to say impossible to expect each CPss to do the same thing as other CPss are doing.
I was impressed when Mary, with a small nursing baby in a room nearby, spent 7 hours attending a conference for the mentally ill - a group which has not had any high profile in the media picture here. She hardly did that for appearance's sake.


I don't get the same pictures of Diana and Rania as you do; I am afraid that to me it is very difficult to distinguish between Diana's media stunts and her sincere projects. Rania mostly makes me wonder that such a small country with a population that to my mind is not wealthy as a whole, has a queen that dresses so ostentiously expensively. But then again - impressions are objective and there is no way we can explain why one person comes across in one way to you but in a quite opposite way to me.
But I did that before by pointing to the crown prince couple's own homepage where their court has been listed (not counting the housemaids, the nannies, the chauffeur, the stylist etc.)

Assistants, doctors, house maids, lawyers etc all over the world basically do the same job. So why not also crown princesses? I don't see any reason against this :-))

Diana influenced the awareness of - I would say - almost the whole world, fighting against Aids and banning landmines. But you will find this information mostly in news magazines and reports that are not tabloit :-) Rania is living in a country that is surrounded by turmoil, conflict, war and poverty. In these countries (including Jordan) the ditch between rich and poor is immense. This is a world, that we as Europeans, will have difficulties to understand. But still, Rania, despite her very expensive taste, is figthing for the rights of women. That is not only impressive but I can also imagine can be quite dangerous sometimes as in those countries women don't have so much to say and men may get offended by her work.
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  #45  
Old 06-11-2008, 06:30 PM
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I think the issue with Frederik and the IOC was indirectly seen, more complex, as in a certain way, he wanted to make his hobby (sports) to his profession (but I am not quite sure here).
No the issue was politics and how Frederik has no place in it.

Quote:
Mette-Marit promotes Anti-Aids issues (she has visited some countries where Aids really is a problem to raise awareness)
Mary promotes mental health issues, she doesn't need to leave Denmark to find a place where it is really an issue. Mary promotes anti-bullying programmes, she doesn't need to leave Denmark to find a place where it is really an issue. The Rare Disorders, Brain Injury Association, Heart Association, Kidney Association, Stroke Association all humanitarian causes that she doesn't need to leave Denmark to find a country where they are really an issue. Mary works in Denmark, to help the people of Denmark - she is the Crown Princess of Denmark after all. If Mette-Marit works with Aids then that is wonderful, it is a geat cause but no more worthy than any of the ones that Mary is involved with.
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  #46  
Old 06-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
But I did that before by pointing to the crown prince couple's own homepage where their court has been listed (not counting the housemaids, the nannies, the chauffeur, the stylist etc.).
Sorry, but you completely lost me here; you mean that because a number of employees are listed on that page, you can deduct that Mary is not herself active in her patronages - but leaves the groundwork of it to others

So following this train of thought, if a royal family wanted to raise public appreciation of their work, they could just choose not to list all people in their employment - and then appear as regular work horses themselves???

Nope, you didn't sell that idea to me, I'm afraid
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  #47  
Old 06-12-2008, 07:53 AM
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I have to support Naggi here: regarding credibility Mary and Fred stay way behind their possibilities.This is a goodlooking, intelligent and stylish couple which is not a disadvantage at all , but when it comes to having something important or significant to say or do they are not really convincing. Rania, Maxima, Mette-Marit have strong opinions and are not afraid to say what they think ( just saw a documentary about Rania and her husband-wow these people really know what discrimination, terror and poverty mean and fight against it!). It is true that as a Royal you should be very careful when it comes to political issues but you still can make a difference. If you are clever you know how to do it if you really want.
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  #48  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Santacruz View Post
I have to support Naggi here: regarding credibility Mary and Fred stay way behind their possibilities.This is a goodlooking, intelligent and stylish couple which is not a disadvantage at all , but when it comes to having something important or significant to say or do they are not really convincing. Rania, Maxima, Mette-Marit have strong opinions and are not afraid to say what they think ( just saw a documentary about Rania and her husband-wow these people really know what discrimination, terror and poverty mean and fight against it!). It is true that as a Royal you should be very careful when it comes to political issues but you still can make a difference. If you are clever you know how to do it if you really want.
We should keep this in perspective please: Rania is QUEEN RANIA therefore the only fair comparison is to her peers = other Queens and not to a CP.

In terms of the other female CP consorts voicing their opinions I am not so sure but I agree some are strongly related to their own field of interest (Maxima, MM, Mathilde).

I do agree that there is room for improvement for the Danish couple in terms of "being recognized for something", especially for Frederik.
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  #49  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:14 AM
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Mary has a clear emphases on bringing awareness to those who find themselves excluded for whatever reason, be it due to injury, illness, immigration, bullying, an abusive relationship. It is a subject that she feels strongly on, a subject that she has talked about and is the main focus of The Mary Foundation. It doesn't have the celebrity profile of working with Aids, the political association of Micro-Credit and it probably won't ever put her on Oprah but it something she has a strong opinion on and it helps the people of her country, which is what it about at the end of the day.
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  #50  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
I dare to say that it is a fact that none of us know how much work royals do behind the scenes. But when no one knows or sees or hears - who should care than? We are talking about public figures who even let us know that their children sleep in their bedrooms etc. (which is something private). Why than, not talking about their public good deeds? This makes no sense to me, as royals in Europe basically live from the sympathies of their people and therefore must be concerned that others know on their heavy workload they have in fullfilling their duties for the country. Especially in times, when they are being critized for being lazy (Frederik) or having an expensive/extravagant fashion taste (Mary).
Has anyone discussing here already read the new biography about Frederick? In it both he and Mary are quoted as having said substancial things which probably answer your questions.

From DR.dk (via Danishroyalwatchers):

Crown Prince Frederik speaks out -
Denmark can expect renewal and modernisation of the royal house when Crown Prince Frederik becomes King Frederik X. This is revealed by Crown Prince Frederik in a new portrait called Frederik - Crown Prince of Denmark...
Together with Crown Princess Mary he'll ensure that the monarchy is relevant and has the backing in the people.
He reports that he won't merely be a figurehead but use his position as monarch to make a difference for people who have a hard time.
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  #51  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Has anyone discussing here already read the new biography about Frederick? In it both he and Mary are quoted as having said substancial things which probably answer your questions.

From DR.dk (via Danishroyalwatchers):

Crown Prince Frederik speaks out -
Denmark can expect renewal and modernisation of the royal house when Crown Prince Frederik becomes King Frederik X. This is revealed by Crown Prince Frederik in a new portrait called Frederik - Crown Prince of Denmark...
Together with Crown Princess Mary he'll ensure that the monarchy is relevant and has the backing in the people.
He reports that he won't merely be a figurehead but use his position as monarch to make a difference for people who have a hard time.

Hear hear : a lot of promises. I would say that too if I were the CP.Future will show if he can really make a difference and be a strong personality like his mother definitely is.
The most interesting point will be his interpretation of
" renewal and modernisation of th royal house " (I guess he was thinking of the new interior design of the royal palace. )
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  #52  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Santacruz View Post
Hear hear : a lot of promises. I would say that too if I were the CP.Future will show if he can really make a difference and be a strong personality like his mother definitely is.
Look what do you want from the poor guy? That he kills his mother immediately in order to show you right away that he is as good as she? Don't you think this is a bit presumptious? He's not on your payroll after all.
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  #53  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:59 AM
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It's just a different perspective to the sometimes too romanticized statements. Do you really think Fred is a poor boy? IMO: A 40year old privileged man who apppears like a poor boy is not really made of king material.
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  #54  
Old 06-12-2008, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Has anyone discussing here already read the new biography about Frederick? In it both he and Mary are quoted as having said substancial things which probably answer your questions.

From DR.dk (via Danishroyalwatchers):

Crown Prince Frederik speaks out -
Denmark can expect renewal and modernisation of the royal house when Crown Prince Frederik becomes King Frederik X. This is revealed by Crown Prince Frederik in a new portrait called Frederik - Crown Prince of Denmark...
Together with Crown Princess Mary he'll ensure that the monarchy is relevant and has the backing in the people.
He reports that he won't merely be a figurehead but use his position as monarch to make a difference for people who have a hard time.
I've read it, and, for the discussion here, I thought it was a particularly interesting read.

Mary - talks a bit about having starting difficulties as a Crown Princess, as everything was new, for her, and for Frederik, things was just automatic (p. 26-27): "After a while, he [Frederik] learnt that I wish to be well-prepared. I take a great deal of stock in preparation, and I think I am rubbing off on him. Things are more interesting if you're well-prepared. Because if you're in the subject, you're really supporting the cause you're involved with."

In terms of the Brazilian state visit: "He's studying Brazilian history, politics, and its social standings today, and read the CVs of the participants in the Brazilian delegation closely. That's a respect you owe your guests, Frederik says. Regardless of whether it is official visits or being the protector of an organization, the preparations take time."

About the trip they had to New York (p255): "In the weeks before departure, they received scores of background notes from Danish Industry & the Foreign department about every arrangement. In addition to this, they read CVs on directors, politicians and other people they were meeting with. Neither Mary nor himself care for not knowing anything when they're meeting people, and therefore they work at high speed with preparations."
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  #55  
Old 06-12-2008, 11:01 AM
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I can see that this conversation will always be with us. Some like Mary and Fred and other hate them. So be it, but to fault their selection of causes is stupid to even be mentioned. Mary feels very strongly about children and bullying, mental health, brain injuries, etc. That is her causes. If people don't like that, tough, let them get out and do something about the other causes. I for one am sick of all the hoop-la over Aids. Everytime I turn around another wealthy star is asking for money for its research. Since the entertainment industry has billions, let them foot the bill. I personally think cancer is more important to the average person. But, to a mother, bullying is quite serious. Maybe MM is interested in Aids because she knew people in her prior life (before becoming a princess) with that awful complaint. I don't but I do know plenty with cancer (my husband for one) and children that have been bullied at school. People take causes that are close to them--not just politically correct and I applaud Mary for this.
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  #56  
Old 06-12-2008, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Naggi View Post
I was not talking about getting involved in the political affairs. I am aware of what a parlamentarian-democtratic Monarchy expects from its royal family :-) However, you can cover these issues also from a cultural and a humanitarian aspect, which is - as I believe - a key representative sector of royal duties :-) Also, most royal houses in Europe (the one more, the other lesser) do have influential power though they are not the ones who decide.
Covering these issues from a cultural and humanitarian aspect doesn't make any differens. Instead af getting mingled up in domestic politics and domestic administration she would get mingled up in cultural politics and administration or welfare politics and administration - as both issues has their own Ministryes and administrativ levels in Denmark.

There is a reason why everything the royal house of Denmark do has to be sanctioned by the minestry of state. This reason is, that they have but a very limited space of action. And who konws what issues Mary and other members of the royal house has tryed to get involved in - there might even be some of your favorit issues :o) -, but has been stoped by the ministry of state because it has been assessed as issues overstepping the line. Nobody knows except from the few trusted public servants in the minestry of state, who has evaluated the request.
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  #57  
Old 06-12-2008, 01:17 PM
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Since the entertainment industry has billions, let them foot the bill
Note of slight correction: The business actually doesn't make that much money. The big studios are constantly in debt hence movies don't make money anymore... it's a huge gamble.


Personally speaking I believe Mary and Frederik are doing fine. Denmark is a small country and the CPC are doing things for their people. Sure the couple's work is not on a mega global scale (aq powerhouse) nor are they well known here in the States like the British Royal Family as well as Spain and Jordan, but that doesn't really matter. Clearly, the CPC couple works.
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  #58  
Old 06-13-2008, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Santacruz View Post
I have to support Naggi here: regarding credibility Mary and Fred stay way behind their possibilities.This is a goodlooking, intelligent and stylish couple which is not a disadvantage at all , but when it comes to having something important or significant to say or do they are not really convincing. Rania, Maxima, Mette-Marit have strong opinions and are not afraid to say what they think ( just saw a documentary about Rania and her husband-wow these people really know what discrimination, terror and poverty mean and fight against it!). It is true that as a Royal you should be very careful when it comes to political issues but you still can make a difference. If you are clever you know how to do it if you really want.
From posts like that I do get the feeling the only thing Mary and Frederik stay way behind their possibilities is self-promotion.
Mary and Frederik definitely have strong opinions and they are not afraid to say what they think - in Denmark.
Apparently what they need are more documentaries, more appearances on TV-shows, more glamourous causes like AIDS or landmines which are well known causes anyhow and automatically give a person credibility.

Just look at MM. The moment she was appointed special representative of UNAIDS she was praised for her commitment. But did she really make a difference in those last 2 years?
And why is everything Mary has done in the same period of time for various organisations and causes in Denmark (cancer, heart disease, mental health, obesity..) considered as insignificant. Why do you think that she hasn't made a difference?
(Those are just rhetorical questions. You don't have to answer them.)

I think part of the "job" of a cp/(future) queen is to support organisations (of course she is only the front woman and most work is done by persons who are unknown to the public, but that's the same for all royal women), to raise awareness, to highlight issues, to destroy prejudices.
In the 80ies AIDS was an issue that needed all this, and Diana did a great job here, but nowadays?
I like Mette-Marit but I actually think she profited more from UNAIDS than the AIDS issue profited from her.
I am more impressed with MM's other engagements and I actually think that she and Mary have a lot in common, both seem to focus on the social outsiders in their countries.

IMO Mary is doing a great job, I actually like the fact that she is supporting various causes and not focusing on one or two only like e.g. Maxima.
Perhaps Mary would be more "convincing" for some if she would engage herself in fewer areas but I personally think the more causes are highlighted and supported the better. They are important, not the personal image.
IMO Frederik could improve a bit though.

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UserDane
Moreover, it bothers me if a CPss has to take on causes with a high media profile in order to be acknowledged for her efforts!
You said it much better and shorter than I.
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  #59  
Old 06-13-2008, 09:11 AM
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I also said that I don't know how much work they do behind closed doors. Just because I have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, it does not make it wrong.
The problem is IMHO that we have a quote here from the Crown Princess where she talks about her work. So you seem to be saying that Mary is lying when she says that she works behind closed doors - and other poster points out that you can't know that. For me it is simply not correct to claim people are lying when you don't have proof for that but only your opinion.
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  #60  
Old 06-14-2008, 09:36 AM
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I still would take this "hard work"with a grain of salt. After all, she doesn't have to buy her groceries, wash, clean, do her garden, has never any worries about money, doesn't pay taxes, gets the very best healthcare there is and has nannies for her children. She is very, very, very privileged and basically doesn't have to worry about a thing.
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