Princess Mary's Personality

[lisamaria]

The explanation for their lack of enthusiasm may be quite simple, and that is that C P Mary is not in any position to execute an interview in Danish. The DRF have sensibly evaluated, that despite everything, it would be to embarrassing if the danish princess communicated with her countrymen in English.

Everything suggests that C P Mary's danish knowledge is limited to reading up speeches from a piece of paper, that others have written for her. And also to give make small talk which is minus any content. Unexpected questions are beyond the princesses danish level.

Danish is difficult to learn, that is agreed, but that said, C P Mary should use a little more energy to learn it. We don't expect much from her, only that she should commit herself to mastering her new country’s language, yes, that we expect, and demand.

The language issue is interesting - as Mary comes from an English-speaking country, she hasn't learned any other language before. She probably lacks the tools for learning for example I have from studying five foreign languages from very early on. And she isn't the only one - Letizia hasn't learned English, Mathilde hasn't learned Dutch, Prince Henrik doesn't speak proper Danish and Silvia doesn't speak proper Swedish. Not being able to learn a language is hardly a character flaw; some people just simply cannot do it as well as others. But journalists (if you can call a person who works for Se og Hor that) find it an easy target; Henrik and Silvia are still after decades being lampooned for it.

Interestingly, in a documentary done before the wedding, Mary speaks to Frederik in Danish - while they are in Australia. I would imagine she has put quite an effort on learning.

Where did I say she's shallow because she's "well put together"? Read my points again:

Dear highpriestess, I wasn't commenting your post but rather the whole chain

 

[wiwaxia]

The language issue is interesting - as Mary comes from an English-speaking country, she hasn't learned any other language before. She probably lacks the tools for learning for example I have from studying five foreign languages from very early on. And she isn't the only one - Letizia hasn't learned English, Mathilde hasn't learned Dutch, Prince Henrik doesn't speak proper Danish and Silvia doesn't speak proper Swedish. Not being able to learn a language is hardly a character flaw; some people just simply cannot do it as well as others. But journalists (if you can call a person who works for Se og Hor that) find it an easy target; Henrik and Silvia are still after decades being lampooned for it.

Interestingly, in a documentary done before the wedding, Mary speaks to Frederik in Danish - while they are in Australia. I would imagine she has put quite an effort on learning.

Dear highpriestess, I wasn't commenting your post but rather the whole chain

I am not sure where the observation you make of a 'character flaw' comes from! And the translation from S&H was about C P Mary, and C P Frederik, not a comparison with half the royal houses of Europe, so I will pass on that one! Henrik Qvortrup is a respected journalist, despite the fact that he is attached to a dubious rag, and I would consider his opinion equally as relevant as a mouthfull of nauseating praise about someone's clothes. However, something must have triggered off his comments!

 

[sylla]

Give her a break. That she is still (in the perception of some) lacking confidence in her spoken Danish is completely understandable. Learning a foreign language as an adult is exceptionally difficult and requires the brain to "rewire" itself - it's much more difficult than learning a second language as a child. That Mary is reluctant to speak more than a few sentences in Danish should not been seen as a personality fault but rather the completely understandable reluctance of someone who knows their every move is being watched to place themselves at the mercy of an unforgiving public.

Hm, how much of a break does she need? It has been about four years since her move to Denmark. If I were to move to Denmark I would have no choice but to learn Danish, and quickly at that. Without the aid of high-priced tutors!! I think the language issue gives a glimps at her superficial and narcissistic personality. She looks every inch a princess, just glorious, but after a while looks just aren't enough.

 

[UserDane]

Henrik Qvortrup is a respected journalist, despite the fact that he is attached to a dubious rag, and I would consider his opinion equally as relevant as a mouthfull of nauseating praise about someone's clothes. However, something must have triggered off his comments!

Come again.... respected??? With all due respect, what has formed your opinion that he is respected?

I know that I am prejudiced against Qvortrup so I won't even get started on the numerous fights, law suits etc. he has been involved in , or the increasing number of celebrities in Denmark who have refused to have anything to do with Se&Hør - only because he is the editor. In mine - and many others' opinion - he has set new standards for gutter journalism (d*** now I did start even if I didn't want to ...)

Qvortrup seems to hold and carefully nurse a grudge against the Danish royals because he does not get the interviews etc. that he feels himself entitled to.

Even royals have standards after all....

 

[acdc1]

Personally, I don't think that you can even try to guess someone's true personality unless you have been around them more than a couple of times. Mary seems like a genuinely kind, caring person, which I don't doubt that she is all the time, but we can never TRULY know it. We can only assume so.

And I don't think that someone's ablility/inability to speak a language is reason to blame them. It is much harder for adults to learn a foreign language than children and teenagers, and it is much easier if they learn languages as babies. It takes hard work and determination to be fluent in a language, which I think Mary is trying to do. I don't know if she and Frederik speak it at home, but I think that they must have learned a lesson from the trouble Henrik got in, living there 40 years and not being good in the language. I think that she is trying hard.

 

[wiwaxia]

Come again.... respected??? With all due respect, what has formed your opinion that he is respected?

I know that I am prejudiced against Qvortrup so I won't even get started on the numerous fights, law suits etc. he has been involved in , or the increasing number of celebrities in Denmark who have refused to have anything to do with Se&Hør - only because he is the editor. In mine - and many others' opinion - he has set new standards for gutter journalism (d*** now I did start even if I didn't want to ...)

Qvortrup seems to hold and carefully nurse a grudge against the Danish royals because he does not get the interviews etc. that he feels himself entitled to.

Even royals have standards after all....

Just my own valid opinion UserDane! you are obviously of another conviction, but that's what makes for a good debate, even though you sound a bit . Maybe Qvortrup isn't a royalist, and thinks the whole thing a bit of a charade anyway, it is after all just another valid opinion, and besides, there have been a few rumblings regarding the Crown Prince pair of late, recently from Jes Dorph-Petersen, so it is possible that there is some substance to the stories after all!

 

[UserDane]

Just my own valid opinion UserDane! you are obviously of another conviction, but that's what makes for a good debate, even though you sound a bit . Maybe Qvortrup isn't a royalist, and thinks the whole thing a bit of a charade anyway, it is after all just another valid opinion, and besides, there have been a few rumblings regarding the Crown Prince pair of late, recently from Jes Dorph-Petersen, so it is possible that there is some substance to the stories after all!

Wiwaxia, I don't question Qvortrup because he is not a royalist (if he got a better paid job at BilledBladet tomorrow, I am sure he would be a fervent royalist by the way...). Very few of my family or friends could be called royalists and that certainly doesn't change my good opinion.
I question Qvortrup's work ethics - his ethics generally, really, not only in relation to royals but in relation to the way he generally treats the people featured in his magazine.

 

[Empress]

Well, having worked in PR I can tell you a few things for certain, having dealt with journalists on a daily basis.

There are good journalists and bad journalists, and by that I mean their abilities. What I have noticed is that the journalists whose abilities are questionable, who can't write an interesting article based solely on what is fact and reality, are the ones who generally sensationalize alot. These are the tactics that they use to take attention away from the fact that they are simply not good writers, or don't have good information, or sources. They have to get attention somehow, and as they say with children, negative attention is still attention. In this case, it will still sell papers, because what they write is silly enough in some cases to simply overshadow their lack of ability.

 

[juliana]

Well, having worked in PR I can tell you a few things for certain, having dealt with journalists on a daily basis.

There are good journalists and bad journalists, and by that I mean their abilities. What I have noticed is that the journalists whose abilities are questionable, who can't write an interesting article based solely on what is fact and reality, are the ones who generally sensationalize alot. These are the tactics that they use to take attention away from the fact that they are simply not good writers, or don't have good information, or sources. They have to get attention somehow, and as they say with children, negative attention is still attention. In this case, it will still sell papers, because what they write is silly enough in some cases to simply overshadow their lack of ability.

Quite right Empress- hence we should all ignore the sensationalised royalty articles in Hello magazine etc.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Ignore all of them? I would disagree with you.

A small minority of these stories do have a grain of truth to them. One just has to be smart enough to decipher through them and read between the lines.

 

[juliana]

Ignore all of them? I would disagree with you.

A small minority of these stories do have a grain of truth to them. One just has to be smart enough to decipher through them and read between the lines.

You are quite right - one cannot ignore any of the articles in fact and that is what people who read negative stories do not understand. Many sad tales of all royals usually start like this and then end up being printed by all the press as it eventually is acknowledged as the truth.

 

[Empress]

Oceans of salt and all of that. People will believe what they want to believe, and the media is very skilled at spinning stories to fit the needs and desires of their buyers. Anyone gullible enough to believe everything that they read is likely a happy person indeed as they get so many conflicting stories from differing sources that they could eventually find something to be happy about.

 

[Binz]

Oceans of salt and all of that. People will believe what they want to believe, and the media is very skilled at spinning stories to fit the needs and desires of their buyers. Anyone gullible enough to believe everything that they read is likely a happy person indeed as they get so many conflicting stories from differing sources that they could eventually find something to be happy about.

ROTFL!

One thing is for sure - Se&Hør won't get so soon an interview from the danish CP couple.

 

[Empress]

Can someone please tell me what ROTFL means?

 

[Mandy]

Can someone please tell me what ROTFL means?

Empress, it is the same as this little smilie .

 

[UserDane]

Can someone please tell me what ROTFL means?

I think it means Rolling On The Floor Laughing
(ups sorry Mandy, we posted at the same time)

 

[Empress]

OK! Thanks for the info!

 

[ysbel]

Well I do have to admit if its true that Mary is reluctant to speak Danish in public for fear of making a mistake and being made fun of and if she is turning down interviews with Danish magazines for the same reason, I wouldn't call it a character flaw but it describes a personality that doesn't like to fail or be made to look foolish in public and that fear of looking foolish is a terrible personaility trait to have when learning to speak a new language besides making one look snobbish.

Anybody sounds foolish when learning a new language and hardly anybody can learn a new language quickly with no mistakes or no accent. People sound silly when they are learning a new language but if you have the desire to connect and communicate with people, people will understand your desire to communicate even if your new language skills are somewhat lacking. The attempt and the good will are more important than perfection of execution.

Mary may be scared of not being perfect when speaking Danish but if that's the reason she is turning down interviews and public speaking engagements in Danish, then the message can be she doesn't care enough about the people to step into their world and speak their language. That may be the farthest thing from her mind but unwillingness to speak the native language is never considered a positive personality trait in any foreigner-whether they are princess or labourer. In fact, Mathilde has been criticized too for not being able to speak Flemish better because Flemish is a language of her country so this criticism is not just Mary-bashing. When a non-royal foreigner comes to a country to live, they have a hard time being accepted into the greater society if they can't show that they can function in the native language.

She may be more comfortable speaking Danish in private where people are more indulgent with her mistakes but she is a public person and she is Crown Princess representing Denmark so I do think the Danish people deserves to have a Crown Princess who tries to speak the language to them as much as possible in her public role as princess.

In fact it can be said that if Mary is willing to let the Danes see her less than perfect Danish and still try to communicate with them where they are and not expect everyone around her to translate everything in English, that desire to connect is a much more powerful message that comes through rather than some grammatical mistakes, etc.

Its really important for her to get over that fear because of her role as a representative of the Danish people and practicing the language as much as possible is the only way to get over the fear. The other foreign Queens have not been made fun of that much. Queen Ingrid's accent was considered charming.

 

[chuchu]

People sound silly when they are learning a new language but if you have the desire to connect and communicate with people, people will understand your desire to communicate even if your new language skills are somewhat lacking. The attempt and the good will are more important than perfection of execution.

You are so right. It reminds me of how some English speakers go to another country and expects the people there to speak to them in English rather than trying to communicate in the country's language.

 

[JuneStar]

I agree completely. I don't see what the big deal is. or whoever made the statement, whether it be a respected journalist or a citizen off the street, it is downright strange that Mary hasn't given any more interviews in Danish and that she doesn't make long speeches in public. I wonder that myself and I'm in Australia, if I was living in Denmark, I would be expecting a lot more of the person who lives off my taxes! just a thought <img>
I think she is beautiful and regal and she works hard, but I am still puzzled by this language thing. Even if she makes mistakes it's all part of the process.. it's better to be out there making mistakes and communicating with the public than nothing at all.. I am also sick of people saying to give her a break, sure she works hard but at the end of the day she gets a royal way of life-she has private lessons with expensive tutors..and all the help she wants, what more can you ask for? ..if I had been in Denmark for 6 years like her, I would have worked my butt off to learn Danish, first and foremost. Over losing weight and looking beautiful as she did.. I do agree that this could be due to her superficial personality but as someone mentioned, we'll never know, we cannot judge her personality from the media.

I do think that above all she owes the Danes more interviews and stronger appearances..after all she's a public figure and saying that she's not happy with her Danish is not good enough, when you're the CP of Denmark..<img>

 

[Charlotte1]

HRH CPss Mary also attended the solo events below before her patronages were announced

Attended and presented the prizes at the Danish championship in pony show jumping in Silkeborg -13.june 2004. She was one of the judges too.

Opening a "health week" in Fredensborg - Thursday 9.september 2004

Opening of photoexhibition- 28. september 2004

The inauguration of the last part of the highway E39, Aalborg - Hirtshals -Saturday 9.october 2004

Attended a Pink Tribute lunch in the American ambassador's residence, Copenhagen - Friday 1.october 2004

Attended the opening of a stamps fair in Copenhagen - Friday 5.november 2004

Opening of the international week for the educations in Cirius Danmark, Copenhagen - 15.november 2004

Inauguration of the new nursing center, Teglgårdsparken in Kolding-
25.november 2004

Visited an institution for the blind in Fredensborg - 6.december 2004 at 10 am

Presented the Philips Nordic Prize 2004 in Copenhagen - 6.december 2004 at 2pm

Inauguration Bov muncipality's new nursing and senior center "Rønshave" - 11.december 2004

Sign again. In my previous post I had already pointed out that Mary had attended the horse prize giving ( You missed the Art Show) but regardless of what other solo events she took part in later, her THIRD solo event was a fashion show. My original point that as she started with fashion ( Nov 2004 was when the Australian Vogue came out with the pictures she posed for and I think she had done a Danish fashion spread before that) a perception has remained about her that she is a light weight. Regardless of whether it is correct or not the perception is there. I also have already stated that she did go onto other more 'serious' areas and those solo engagements after the fashion show in Aug 2004 reflect that, but the fashion came first.

Wrapped here too is the idea of royalty as celebrity, celebrities go to fashion shows. Royals ( with a capital R) attend worthy causes they are not celebrities. So how Mary is viewed here too is from which part of the spectrum you stand on the Diana and Princess Grace end ( glamour, fashion icons, and good works) or the Princess Anne ( no glamour, a total disdain for fashion trends, work incredibly hard) Most of the newer princess seem to lean towards the Anne spectrum, Mary is seen to lean towards the celebrity end. What will change is with her future work as she continues to play down the fashion angle and more emphasis is placed on her more serious patronages.

I won't make a judgement on Mary's Danish language abilities but denegrating others to apologise for what is seen as a criticism of Mary's language skills annoys me.

Letizia hasn't learned English, Mathilde hasn't learned Dutch, Prince Henrik doesn't speak proper Danish and Silvia doesn't speak proper Swedish.

Letizia spoke English even before she married, just not to a particularly high level, her "princess training' included classes in high level diplomatic English. Mathilde can speak Dutch she was raised bi-lingual but she speaks it with a French accent. It's Queen Paola who doesn't speak Dutch or very little. Henrik speaks Danish, what isn't proper about it is that he has a very heavy French accent and that's what he's lampooned for. Silvia too speaks Swedish and what isn't proper with her Swedish is that she has a heavy German accent.
In contrast Maxima who also learned Dutch as an adult and from scratch was able to learn Dutch well enough that she could speak to the Dutch press in Dutch at her engagement announcement.

 

[ysbel]

So how Mary is viewed here too is from which part of the spectrum you stand on the Diana and Princess Grace end ( glamour, fashion icons, and good works) or the Princess Anne ( no glamour, a total disdain for fashion trends, work incredibly hard) Most of the newer princess seem to lean towards the Anne spectrum, Mary is seen to lean towards the celebrity end.

I wouldn't say most of the new crown princesses lean towards Anne. Anne is a former Olympic athlete who has not only has no interest for fashion, she doesn't care for anything that is remotely flattering to a human figure. And I admire her, but I don't see Maxima, Mette-Marit, Mathilde, or Letizia following in Anne's footsteps. They are all quite stylish and very feminine in their appearance. Anne is not.

Anne is a countrywoman, first and foremost. Mary with her sporty background is the crown princess I would say most closely resembles the character of Anne but Mary isn't a former Olympic athlete so I don't think she has the dedication and single-mindedness of Anne.

Now all the royals veer towards the celebrity end compared to the beginning of the 20th century. It used to be that the only contact with celebrity the royals had was at the Annual Royal Command performance but no more. Charles and Camilla who are not celebrity seekers by any means have attended movie premieres quite frenquently.

Diana probably veered more towards celebrity than any other princess but she was also the princess who supported the most of the most noble causes.

So how do you pigeonhole people? Movie premieres are OK but fashion shows are not? When an entertainer or a sports star gets an honor from a monarch is the monarch partaking in the celebrity lifestyle rather than the royal lifestyle?

 

[Madame Royale]

Isn't that what the journalist's observation is about? - not much attempt.

And the word for today is, journalist's! Need anymore be said...

Princess Royal? Oh this is becoming too much!

 

[Empress]

Maxima was trained from the get go with the highly skilled nuns that run a language school in the Netherlands. Very expensive, and very effecctive, and not neccesarily available in other countries. The nuns apparently can teach a person to speak a language extraordinarily well within a month.

 

[ysbel]

And the word for today is, journalist's! Need anymore be said...

Princess Royal? Oh this is becoming too much!

Well is it true or not?

How often do we see Mary speak Danish in public?

This is something that is easily quantifiable. If she's speaking in public, someone in the public should be able to hear her and say whether she's speaking in Danish or English. One can count the number of times she speaks Danish in public.

Then and only then will we be able to tell if the journalist was imparting false information.

So who knows how often Mary speaks Danish in public?

btw Madame Royale, by Princess Royal do you mean Princess Anne? It is the correct title, I just caught that is what you meant.

 

[Charlotte1]

I wouldn't say most of the new crown princesses lean towards Anne. Anne is a former Olympic athlete who has not only has no interest for fashion, she doesn't care for anything that is remotely flattering to a human figure. And I admire her, but I don't see Maxima, Mette-Marit, Mathilde, or Letizia following in Anne's footsteps. They are all quite stylish and very feminine in their appearance. Anne is not.

But that's a very superficial view of Anne! Is that all that is considered important is what she does, that she doesn't care about her clothing choices? I see the other princesses in her mold because Anne has taken on serious causes from 1970 when she became the President of Save the Children, she was making trips to Africa well before the glamour princesses came on the scene. She's on the team organising the London Olympics, she's currently on her third overseas trip this year alone. She takes on non-glamorous patronages, the Butler Trust for one. She visits ( looking at her calendar) at least once a month either a prison of a young offenders institute. The seriousness that she puts into her job as a royal I think is what the other princesses are following, ignore the superficiality and celebrity aspect of what makes a 'good' princess, it's not the clothes they wear, it's the work they do. That's why I see the younger crop of European princesses lean towards the Anne spectrum and not the Diana/Grace end.

The movie premieres are a valid point, yes they are as much a 'celebrity' event as fashion shows but Anne doesn't attend movie premieres!
The Royal Command preformance is dying out ( probably to the Queen's relief!) I don't think there's been one for a while. But its origins are from the era of the monarch 'commanding' their subjects to entertain, a modern version of the court jester. It wasn't a celebrity event as such.

 

[ysbel]

But that's a very superficial view of Anne! Is that all that is considered important is what she does, that she doesn't care about her clothing choices? I see the other princesses in her mold because Anne has taken on serious causes from 1970 when she became the President of Save the Children, she was making trips to Africa well before the glamour princesses came on the scene. She's on the team organising the London Olympics, she's currently on her third overseas trip this year alone. She takes on non-glamorous patronages, the Butler Trust for one. She visits ( looking at her calendar) at least once a month either a prison of a young offenders institute. The seriousness that she puts into her job as a royal I think is what the other princesses are following, ignore the superficiality and celebrity aspect of what makes a 'good' princess, it's not the clothes they wear, it's the work they do. That's why I see the younger crop of European princesses lean towards the Anne spectrum and not the Diana/Grace end.

The movie premieres are a valid point, yes they are as much a 'celebrity' event as fashion shows but Anne doesn't attend movie premieres!
The Royal Command preformance is dying out ( probably to the Queen's relief!) I don't think there's been one for a while. But its origins are from the era of the monarch 'commanding' their subjects to entertain, a modern version of the court jester. It wasn't a celebrity event as such.

You get me wrong Charlotte. . I admire Anne tremendously and I agree with you that she did a lot of the caring charities before the other princesses came on the scene and she is to be commended for that. I also don't fault Anne for not being a fashion horse. I'm another person who doesn't define myself with the clothes that I wear.

But if you take Anne and Diana, these were two women who were worlds apart and yet both focused on humanitarian causes and worked very hard for those causes. Yet what different personalities we see. The two women couldn't stand each other. Diana called Anne a man in woman's clothing and Anne complained that Diana had 'gooey' ideas about children.

Yet, they both believed strongly in humanitarian causes. So its one facet of the person, a cause-even a serious cause-doesn't define a personality.

Yes Maxima follows serious causes but that is not the totality of what makes up her personality, she is also vivacious, feminine, larger than life. And that is definitely not Anne's personality. The same with Mathilde. I can think if no other opposite to Maxima than the shy demure ever proper Mathilde. These ladies are two worlds apart even though they both sponsor serious charities, they are both as different from each other as Diana was from Anne.

I think you bring up a good point about celebritization. It is as if the function of the celebrity is to entertain the commoner and make us forget our humdrum life; if the royal takes on that role, it is dangerous and makes the royal disposible.

 

[Madame Royale]

Well is it true or not?

How often do we see Mary speak Danish in public?

This is something that is easily quantifiable. If she's speaking in public, someone in the public should be able to hear her and say whether she's speaking in Danish or English. One can count the number of times she speaks Danish in public.

Then and only then will we be able to tell if the journalist was imparting false information.

So who knows how often Mary speaks Danish in public?

We see what the media lets us see, and what they let us see isn't always fairly reflective upon their 'subject' of choice. And other than various engagements where the media has access to a speech or two, how on earth could an accurate account be formed on the Crown Princess' willingness to exert her Danish skills (whether 'lack of' or not).

I've heard Mary speak Danish in public, and at numerous events she has attended (rightly so). Infact, most of the events she attends in an official capacity as either patroness or a representative of the royal family she speaks Danish, her speeches are anyway. The degree of her pronunciation isn't for I, or anyone to scold. She is learning and shall spend the rest of her life learning. That is a process which shall not cease.

Every event Mary attends is not listed on the official calendar, so how do we know what language dominates the conversation?

It's the tongue she speaks when cameras and jurno's arent around, that's whats got them annoyed.

Anywho, that's my take on it and can appreciate your point of view.

btw Madame Royale, by Princess Royal do you mean Princess Anne? It is the correct title, I just caught that is what you meant

I know it's the correct title and given theres only one Princess Royal, I believe it's safe to say that it was Anne to whom I refer.

 

[highpriestess]

A dramatic change would not have given me the impression that Mary was fake. Princess Diana went through a dramatic change in her looks from her engagement to her first year as Princess of Wales and changed again towards the end of her marriage but I would never call her a fake.

Two of my favorite actresses were denizens of the fashion scene and they were lovely and deep and caring people: Catherine Deneuve and Audrey Hepburn.

So yes I agree with you that fashion is pretty shallow but I disagree with you that Mary's association with fashion makes her shallow.

Diana's changes were much more gradual in her 16, 17 years as a princess.

As for Deneuve and Hepburn, I wouldn't call them "denizens of the fashion scene", especially Audrey. Audrey Hepburn was a trend setter. She's not a follower of fashion. She wore what she liked. Fashion designers and the masses followed her. Plus, there are different expectations for an actress and a princess. Being shallow is expected for an actress, but not for a princess.

 

[ysbel]

It's the tongue she speaks when cameras and jurno's arent around, that's whats got them annoyed.

Well you know Madame Royale, you in Australia and I in the US probably don't see all her public appearances when she speaks Danish because we live in English speaking countries so I take that back it is hard for us to judge.

But how would the journos know about the tongue Mary speaks when they're not around and why would they complain about it? They're not around.