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  #81  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binz View Post
Usual I don't like comparisons. Still I can't resist. I must say I'm a bit flabbergasted. There is a certain Princess who has spent all her life in a bilingual country. She was the girlfriend of her Prince for three years and is now married with him for seven years, soon eight years. Still there are people who think this special princess speaks lousy one of the two languages of her home country. There is nearly now critic of this princess because of her very slow learning of the second language of her country. Maybe because she is noble?
I think you my have misunderstood my post, or maybe I did yours. I'm being stupid here, but who exactly are you referring to?
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  #82  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:25 PM
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Saint Mathilde of Belgium?
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  #83  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:28 PM
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Keeping in mind that we are all entitled to our opinion, which I fully respect, I have to make the following observation. I wonder where is the evidence for such condemnation and character assassination (yes, very strong words - that’s what I’m hearing) for a woman we don’t actually know.

For example, when you say: “Someone who looks down on people and feels better than others ever since her wedding” it’s hard not to question your opinion when statements like that are made. While I understand we will always have different opinions and perspectives, such accusations must be based on facts. In order to determined whether or not she looks down on people, you would need to be privy to her views and know her on a personal level. Such things cannot be judge just by looking at someone’s picture.

I think it is categorically unfair to talk about Mary in that regard simply because you don’t like her. I’m not in any way questioning anyone’s right to state an opinion; I am however challenging the basis for your argument. We can’t love everyone, and that’s perfectly understandable. But, we should not let our negative impressions cloud our objectivity.
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  #84  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redferns View Post
Saint Mathilde of Belgium?

Oh ok, that makes sense.

Well my point was, I am in no position to comment on/criticize Mary's ability to speak Danish.

Do the Danish people or media comment on this issue? And how about Mathilde then? Do the Belgian media have an issue with Mathilde's language skills.

I don't want to take the focus away from Mary, but since it has been mentioned perhaps we could get more information?
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  #85  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ...sOfIa.... View Post
Oh ok, that makes sense.

Well my point was, I am in no position to comment on/criticize Mary's ability to speak Danish.

Do the Danish people or media comment on this issue? And how about Mathilde then? Do the Belgian media have an with Mathilde's language skills.

I don't want to take the focus away from Mary, but since it has been mentioned perhaps we could get more information?
Sorry, I don't want to start a discussion about Mathilde and I also don't want to step on the belgian part of the message board. The fact is it's possible to rip every CP into peaces if you wish. Nobody is perfect, not Mary and none of the other princesses.

To go back to the topic.

As others I don't know Mary so I cant really judge her personality. Though I like what I've seen so far very much. I wouldn't have anything against her as my crown princess if we would still have a monarchy.
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  #86  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
No, arrogance and superficiality go so well with royal princesses - like the right clutch with the perfect Chanel outfit. Let's not have Mary change one teensy weensy bit.

Arrogance is good in the right place, it really is, and if a palace is not the right place for it then there is no place for arrogance left!

We can't have that!
I disagree. Arrogance is never good - especially if you are a member of the royal family who are goodwill ambassadors of their country. Also, their priveleged lifestyle is being supported by taxpayers.
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  #87  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
Keeping in mind that we are all entitled to our opinion, which I fully respect, I have to make the following observation. I wonder where is the evidence for such condemnation and character assassination (yes, very strong words - that’s what I’m hearing) for a woman we don’t actually know.

For example, when you say: “Someone who looks down on people and feels better than others ever since her wedding” it’s hard not to question your opinion when statements like that are made. While I understand we will always have different opinions and perspectives, such accusations must be based on facts. In order to determined whether or not she looks down on people you would need to be privy to her views and know her on a personal level. Such things cannot be judge just by looking at someone’s picture.

I think it is categorically unfair to talk about Mary in that regard simply because you don’t like her. I’m not in any way questioning anyone’s right to state an opinion; I am however challenging the basis for your argument. We can’t love everyone, and that’s perfectly understandable. However, we should not let our negative impression clouds our objectivity.
My dearest Chimene. I believe you were referring to my post when talking about her looking down on people. What you have to understand is that it is just an opinion of mine, nothing more. I definitely didn't mean to attack her, which is what I tried explaining in the first part of my post, because that is not the kind of person I am. What I don't understand however is why everyone is always attacking others and in your words assesination of opinions. Yes, what I say is only based on somebody's picture and some short videos. But there again, isn't everyone's opinion based just on that? I would love to go over and have tea sometime and let her prove me I'm wrong, but I doubt I'll get that opportunity. The only moments Mary really seems like a friendly and nice person to me, is when she is around her children, and not minding the press too much. SO yes maybe I am wrong and in privite she's not like I think she is, but there again I never said I was right. Please remember this thred was created (I believe) to let people give opinions on Mary;s personality, not only positive things, but also less positive.
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  #88  
Old 06-26-2007, 06:02 PM
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Mary is perfect in her princess role, always well-dressed, well coiffed and regal. She takes her role seriously and seems to understand what is expected of her.

However, I have a feeling if I were to meet her in person I probably would not like her. She does appear snobbish in some of the videos I have seen and that fake upper class accent is off-putting.
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  #89  
Old 06-26-2007, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuchu View Post
I know this thread is about Mary, but one of the most frequent complaints about Letizia is her boring news reporter's outfits that she recycles frequently. In this respect, Letizia is different from the other princesses because her style has not changed so much since her marriage to Felipe.
Ijust a general viewpoint, i dont mean to comapre the two in anyway
One has the choice to change or not, outfit wise.. You wear what you think is comftable, and appealing to you which others might love or hate & some like to experiment new things....ex, Letizia wore proffesional suits beofre Felipe & still does, suits are worn by royals as well on the other hand, Mary used to wear very casual cloths, cropped pants & tee's, wearing that outto an event as a crown princess would be a disaster...

Mary from day1 proved that she was up for it, she has become one of the most watched royals if im not mistaken, she is a Crown princess now, future Queen...she cant stay living the normal life she used to have....
  #90  
Old 06-26-2007, 06:54 PM
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In my role as moderator, I would like to see this topic move on productively. This topic was indeed created to let everyone express their opinions, and views on Mary. Now whilst bearing in mind the rules of this forum, I would like to open the floor to those of you who have a less than glowing view of Crown Princess Mary.

What I mean by this is that many of you who have a less than stellar opinion of Mary have stated your opinion quite clearly. What I want to know is why, BASED ON FACTS , those opinions have been formed. For example, has she made some terrible gaffe in her speeches, lied to government about her past, or other such verifiable fact? If you do not like her based on what you have seen, then that is of course your right, but I think in order to move this topic along, and out of the realm of simple feelings and into fact, I would like to know if there is any reason for the very strong feelings FOR and AGAINST Mary.

Please be nice and state your posts in a non offensive and conversational manner. And by that I mean civilized and sensible arguments for or against are welcome. Any confrontational or rude posts will be deleted.
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  #91  
Old 06-26-2007, 07:23 PM
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My dearest princess leonor! We should all have tea with her, that would be great! I don’t think you read my post carefully, if you think I’m attacking you. Yes, my opinion is based on pictures and videos too, but I still don’t understand why you think she’s looking down on people, for the reason I have already stated. No, I have not forgotten why the thread was created. Which is why I would like to understand the rationale of your opinion, since we are here engaging in a dialogue.

Yes, I do have a positive view of her. That’s because I have not seen her do anything to merit negative views. Again, I’m not suggesting you should say only wonderful things about her, I stated that fact quite clearly in my post as well. I have no desire to only be right, as I’m a firm believer in: if I know everything, I can’t learn anything. And I can assure you when I dislike someone or something it’s for concrete reasons.
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  #92  
Old 06-26-2007, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binz View Post
Ahhhhh, thanks, obviously than I must be fake, superficial and shallow too as some people puts it so nicely. After all my accent changes dependent with whom I have to speak. It wouldn't be appropriate to use my "accent" with which I usual speak with my family at my workplace.

Probably some of us don't have the right to grow out of our habits with time. We have to know our place and stick to it, at least if we aren't born in some life circumstances.

This is very, very offensive to Crown Princess Mary and also to some of us.

(Sorry Elsbeth that I'm using your post as starting point)
Yep, OK, but apparently you read into my post that I was saying that this is necessarily a bad thing? Because I assure you that I wasn't. Sometimes it can be a sign of snobbery, and sometimes it can be a sign of wanting to assimilate, which is often a case of considerate behaviour toward the group concerned.
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  #93  
Old 06-26-2007, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
[CENTER][B]What I want to know is why, BASED ON FACTS , those opinions have been formed. For example, has she made some terrible gaffe in her speeches, lied to government about her past, or other such verifiable fact? If you do not like her based on what you have seen, then that is of course your right, but I think in order to move this topic along, and out of the realm of simple feelings and into fact, I would like to know if there is any reason for the very strong feelings FOR and AGAINST Mary
Here are a couple of definitions of "opinion".

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Opinions in the context of this thread is very subjective.
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  #94  
Old 06-26-2007, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuchu View Post
I disagree. Arrogance is never good - especially if you are a member of the royal family who are goodwill ambassadors of their country. Also, their priveleged lifestyle is being supported by taxpayers.
Au contraire, my dear chuchu. How dreadfully boring for royalty to be reduced to a line item on a country's budget and some high paid copy of a handshaker and ribbon cutter. Perhaps it is inevitable but royalty doesn't have to shove their reduced status in our faces and start acting humble.

If the taxpayer or public opinion controls the royals now, I certainly hope the royals have enough aplomb to make it look like the royal is calling his or her own shots. Otherwise I'm afraid royalty quite loses its magic for me.
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  #95  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:10 PM
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Yes, once upon a time it was normal for royals to act a bit snobbish and we accepted that they were "above" us. But with many princes marrying commoners these days, I would find it a bit strange and unnatural if these princesses began to act as if they were born and bred to be queens. After all, four, five, six years ago some of these women were just like you and me, doing their own laundry and making their own meals and living normal lives. So, if after their marriages they began to act like they had no idea what it is like to live an ordinary existence and acted snobbish and superior, I would think that it would be sort of an act, and that these women weren't being themselves. Unless of course they let their new positions get to their head too much.
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  #96  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:20 PM
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Hmm, jmj, you bring up some interesting points. I think royals and aristocrats can pull off the royal attitude better than middle class commoners but the crown princes don't seem to be interested in princesses or duchesses any more so we have to look towards the commoner brides to add that special royal attitude.

Once a commoner marries into royalty, I don't care what they used to be. I just care about them being able to live and act like a royal and yes, for me, that requires a bit of standoffishness. I don't want my royals to act too close and chummy. To some arrogance looks fake but to me, an overabundance of chumminess with people they don't know well seems fake to me. This may very well be wrong but that is the impression I get when I see photos and videos of royals and celebrities acting extremely chummy with people they just met. Another person may have a totally opposite opinion from the same picture and think the royal is so warm and friendly and natural.

As long as the can pull off the royal attitude and they fit it with the royal family and the country they marry into, they're fine in my book.

I respect that others wish for a down to earth princess but I'm just afraid that that sort of princess doesn't excite my imagination about royalty and to follow royalty, my imagination must be inspired a bit.
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  #97  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
....or her suspicious amount of support to the danish fashion industry. .
This is one of the most stubborn misconceptions about Mary's relationship with the Danish fashion industry.

Do you know that the fashion industry rates very high on the list of the Denmark's most profitable exports? It's not haute couture, no doubt about that, but it is a very very profitable export branch. Do you know that at the website for the Danish foreign ministry, they offer advice for potential exporters within certain categories - and that they group Design, Furniture and Fashion together (http://www.um.dk/da/menu/Eksportraadgivning/MarkedsOgSektorinformation/Sektorinformation/Moebler/)? They don't do that to please a crown princess who might be interested in fashion. They do that because the fashion industry has become big business for the country in later years. If Mary therefore has demonstrated a 'suspicous amount of support for the Danish fashion industry', I am sure that the country's exporters are thrilled about it - just like they are thrilled about prince Henrik's activities when he actively supports Danish trade delagations on trips abroad - or Joachim's endeavours to support Danish agriculture. The long-term goal is the same: to actively promote that part of trade and industry which the royal person has been asked to function as a patron for.

(by the way, the next CIFF (About CIFF - Copenhagen International Fashion Fair) takes place on August 9-12 - and yes, Mary as a patron will undoubtedly pay a visit to the fair; she will also attend a circus galla on September 8 for the benefit of the Danish mental health fund - an area which has not formerly had much public awareness but which she has worked very actively for. Fortunately, the mental health fund appearences usually do not attract as many media people as the CIFF events so with good luck she may not be critised for attending that)
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  #98  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:20 PM
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Yes,but opinions are formed on facts. Factual evidence can of course be photos, but hopefully our members are basing their opinions something more substantial, i.e actions, rather than forming an opinion based on a random photo.

Of course opinons are subjective, and I am sure that we are all aware of the definition of opinion, but even subjective opinions must have a basis.
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  #99  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuchu View Post
Here are a couple of definitions of "opinion".

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Opinions in the context of this thread is very subjective.
Opinions are subjective under pretty much all circumstances, which is why our rules state that the basis for people's opinions should be explained, or we're all reduced to exchanging subjective comments that can't really be the basis for discussion. If you're having a problem with the way this thread is being moderated, please contact one of the admins by PM to talk about it.
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  #100  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Well, excuse me! I've lived most of my life in Australian and was born here, and whenever I travel overseas, which is regularly, people often say to me 'you don't sound Australian'. How would they know?

Does everyone in England speak with an Eastenders or Coronation Street accent? Of course not!

Not all Australians speak the way that their accents are depicted in films. Nothing wrong with it of course, but it's not accurate.

For instance, I've spent a lot of time in England and have an English husband and exended family. One of my sisters lives in America and affects an American accent. These things are contagious.

CP Mary sounds like CP Mary, and has a decided Sydney 'lilt' to her voice, in my opinion, which is slowly vanishing. So what? She doesn't live here anymore and those around her now who speak English would certainly not do so with a Hollywood version of an all-embracing Australian accent.

Give her break!
Exactly! Apparently, some people think us Aussies should all be speaking like Steve Irwin did! His accent and many Aussie accents depicted on films are very exaggerrated. Go and talk to real Aussies, or the majority of Aussies and they will speak normally, like Nicole Kidman, Cate Blanchett etc, even Mary.
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