The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #401  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:43 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I wonder how many people would lgive Mary's public speaking the depth of thought they have, if it weren't for the media's constant scrutiny and judgement.
That is true; I think Crown Princess Margaret of Sweden had a tough time with the Swedish language when she first started and always had an accent. The media being what it was back then; people weren't confronted with her bad Swedish at first. Although I heard her Swedish, though accented, became quite good.

But I think the average person meets many more people in a single day than our grandparents or great-grandparents did so the ability to speak well with different people and to do it more often is more important now than during Crown Princess Margaret's time.
__________________

__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
  #402  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:46 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post

But I think the average person meets many more people in a single day than our grandparents or great-grandparents did so the ability to speak well with different people and to do it more often is more important now than during Crown Princess Margaret's time.

I do understand. And a good point made at that.
__________________

__________________
  #403  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:50 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Micky's, United States
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Diana's changes were pretty significant in her first year: she went from being on Blackwell's worst dressed list to the most stylish woman in the world in about the same time as Mary has been a princess. Diana's clothing choices her first year as a princess were horrendous and they got immediately better after William was born only one year later and definitely before Harry's birth. You can see the difference in the clothing she wore when she came out of the hospital with William compared to the clothes she wore when she came out of the hospital with Harry only two years later. What a transformation in such a short time and I still don't believe its fake any more than I believe Mary is fake.

I think you and I have a different opinion on denizens of fashion. Audrey definitely followed fashion and fashion shows were her passion long after she grew older and didn't feel comfortable wearing the latest styles. Her clothes were trendsetting but that may have been more due to the influence of her designer Hubert de Givenchy who saw Hepburn as the perfect canvas for his designs. Its debatable whether the real creative fashion mind belonged to Audrey or whether it belonged to de Givenchy. It doesn't change my opinion of La Grande Hepburn at all but I believe in giving credit where credit is due and credit for Audrey's trendsetting I think does not fairly rest on her shoulders alone.

But my point is that Audrey with her acting, her work for UNICEF is much more than the sum of what clothes she wore even though she cared deeply about fashion and the clothes she wore.

Still I refuse to call Audrey Hepburn shallow even though she was a lowly actress and interested in fashion. So if I dare not call Audrey shallow, how can I call Mary shallow? It defies reason.
First, having better clothes after two years is very different from someone who changes skin color, accent, weight and clothes within just months. Diana might have gotten better clothes, but she didn't change her physical appearance.

Second, you probably need to read more about Audrey Hepburn. Previous custome designers of her movie "Funny Face" said she would pick out all the outfits herself and match items up herself. That include the black turtle neck and black slim pants that she made famous. Givenchy said the first time Hepburn visit him in Paris, Audrey walked in in capri pants and flat ballerina shoes, something hardly fashionable in Paris at the time. But she wore them with confidence and looked ultra chic. Capri pants and flat ballerina shoes have been popular till today. She's much more than just a muse for Givenchy. She had an inner sense of style that is not matched even today.

Third, Audrey Hepburn was taken much more seriously than a shallow actress or fashion icon AFTER she started working with UNICEF. Before that, she's beloved and popular but not taken seriously. Again, I'm not talking about "personality" here. I'm talking about "public perception". The public didn't Hepburn seriously until her work with UNICEF. If Mary starts devoting as much time to a serious cause and work diligently with a serious world organization as Audrey Hepburn did, after a few years, public perception of her will change too.
__________________
  #404  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:00 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Micky's, United States
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
So what you are saying is that Mary was first associated with fashion shows. And therefore Mary has a shallow personality?

Why don't you tell us why you think this way rather than just repeat it over and over again? Your statements don't make any more sense than the first time you made these statement a couple of pages ago.
My post was a response to someone who posted a timeline of patronage announcement as if that disproved the same point Charlotte and I made. It didn't. Too bad you chose to be condescending when you don't understand the points made.
__________________
  #405  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:02 AM
wiwaxia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Douz, Tunisia
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Well is it true or not?

How often do we see Mary speak Danish in public?

This is something that is easily quantifiable. If she's speaking in public, someone in the public should be able to hear her and say whether she's speaking in Danish or English. One can count the number of times she speaks Danish in public.

Then and only then will we be able to tell if the journalist was imparting false information.

So who knows how often Mary speaks Danish in public?

btw Madame Royale, by Princess Royal do you mean Princess Anne? It is the correct title, I just caught that is what you meant.

Well, it depends what one means by 'speaking in public', a quick riposte on her way into an engagement? - categorised as small talk in reality, should be a honed accomplishment for her at this stage. If the reference is to speeches, then she has made an average of 4 a year since her initiation as a royal, possibly written by the scribes at the palace.

The journalist, Qvortrup, can not be accused for 'imparting false information', he has written an article defining his opinion, aquired from his observation of the princess and her command of the danish language, and her apparent reluctance and avoidance for confrontation in the language of the country in which she will one day be Queen.
__________________
  #406  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:09 AM
wiwaxia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Douz, Tunisia
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Unless of course people are gullible enough to believe everything they read.

And well, this thread takes the cake!

Two sides to every coin, and an alternative view, from the journalist Qvortrup is just as valid. I assume that being 'gullible' would also apply if the report in S&H had applauded the subject matter?!
__________________
  #407  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:45 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
First, having better clothes after two years is very different from someone who changes skin color, accent, weight and clothes within just months. Diana might have gotten better clothes, but she didn't change her physical appearance.
Diana's changes were much more significant than a few changes of wardrobe. She was several, several pounds thinner a couple of years after her marriage than she was during the engagement. She lost many more pounds than Mary did. Her makeup application was a lot lighter and more sophisticated because she hired a professional makeup artist to apply it whereas before she had put it on herself favoring blue eyeshadow that the stylist had some difficulty to talk her out of. Her skin looked smoother because of the more professional application of makeup. She also experimented with her hair color, going several shades lighter than her natural ashy blonde hair to the point where her hairdresser Kevin warned her that she was going to ruin her hair. Previously she had only put highlights in her hair but after her marriage she had gone almost totally to the lighter shade. She also experimented with her hair length culminating with the famous showstopper sweptup bangs hairstyle that upstaged the Queen's speech to Parliament. There was a significant change of hairstyle, loss of weight from the engagement to the marriage (a period of six months) and an even more significant change after that first year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
Second, you probably need to read more about Audrey Hepburn. Previous custome designers of her movie "Funny Face" said she would pick out all the outfits herself and match items up herself. That include the black turtle neck and black slim pants that she made famous. Givenchy said the first time Hepburn visit him in Paris, Audrey walked in in capri pants and flat ballerina shoes, something hardly fashionable in Paris at the time. But she wore them with confidence and looked ultra chic. Capri pants and flat ballerina shoes have been popular till today. She's much more than just a muse for Givenchy. She had an inner sense of style that is not matched even today.
Well I'm reading an interview now with Hubert de Givenchy and he did mention that that Audrey had a strong sense of style but he said she showed it by augmenting the outfits he created with one particular element of her own choosing and that the two had a partnership. The Audrey Hepburn image was a collaboration between the two artists. That is what I meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
Third, Audrey Hepburn was taken much more seriously than a shallow actress or fashion icon AFTER she started working with UNICEF. Before that, she's beloved and popular but not taken seriously. Again, I'm not talking about "personality" here. I'm talking about "public perception". The public didn't Hepburn seriously until her work with UNICEF. If Mary starts devoting as much time to a serious cause and work diligently with a serious world organization as Audrey Hepburn did, after a few years, public perception of her will change too.
I'm glad you brought up this point because it highlights something significant. Audrey Hepburn started her work with UNICEF as a second career at the age of 60. She had already achieved the heights of her profession (Oscar, Tony, etc.) and her children were grown adults. Mary is 35 in a new job as Crown Princess and two children under the age of 5. Mary is in a very different stage of her life than Audrey was.

Audrey had said that she wanted to devote the rest of her time to UNICEF because she had been given so much during her long life that she wanted to give something back. She had to have a long life to experience and appreciate the gifts that she had been given before turning around and wanting to give it back.

Audrey's association with UNICEF was strongest because a UNICEF package kept her from starvation as a child in wartorn Holland during WWII. UNICEF was not just a charity that Hepburn picked up just to make herself seem more significant; her work with UNICEF came naturally out of the rest of her life. When Mary is 60, she may have that gravitas that Audrey achieved at that age and do something wonderful for mankind but she is not there yet.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
  #408  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:52 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
Well, it depends what one means by 'speaking in public', a quick riposte on her way into an engagement? - categorised as small talk in reality, should be a honed accomplishment for her at this stage. If the reference is to speeches, then she has made an average of 4 a year since her initiation as a royal, possibly written by the scribes at the palace.

The journalist, Qvortrup, can not be accused for 'imparting false information', he has written an article defining his opinion, aquired from his observation of the princess and her command of the danish language, and her apparent reluctance and avoidance for confrontation in the language of the country in which she will one day be Queen.
Before I decide whether his report is accurate I need to know how many times he really heard her speak Danish compared to how many times a royal would be expected to speak Danish. That's why I later changed my mind and said it wasn't quantifiable. I think though that what he is talking about and what the other journalist is talking about are her number of interviews with Danish journalists in Danish and that is quantifiable. Apparently she hasn't done one in a couple of years and that would be a cause for concern.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
  #409  
Old 07-13-2007, 02:07 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
Two sides to every coin, and an alternative view, from the journalist Qvortrup is just as valid. I assume that being 'gullible' would also apply if the report in S&H had applauded the subject matter?!
I certainly take into consideration what it is, I believe, you're stating. Make no mistake about that.

Though, the fact anyone is willingly taking anything from either SogH or BB and not question the purpose or validity of a claim does not surprise me.

Afterall, what would a journalists purpose be if they are unable to sway or encourage their point of view onto another, and another and so on and so forth...

I'm not in need of some overworked and underpayed reporter telling me how it is or how it should be. Though, that's just me.

Quote:
Apparently she hasn't done one in a couple of years and that would be a cause for concern.
If it 'is' so, then I would very much like to see the 'matter' rectified.
__________________
  #410  
Old 07-13-2007, 02:22 AM
wiwaxia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Douz, Tunisia
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Before I decide whether his report is accurate I need to know how many times he really heard her speak Danish compared to how many times a royal would be expected to speak Danish. That's why I later changed my mind and said it wasn't quantifiable. I think though that what he is talking about and what the other journalist is talking about are her number of interviews with Danish journalists in Danish and that is quantifiable. Apparently she hasn't done one in a couple of years and that would be a cause for concern.

This is the crux of the matter it seems, and her reluctance for expansion when she makes appearances, - her confinement to monosyllabic answers has become an irritation. The article is an observation, and a conclusion of his evaluation of the princesses performance. I would think that a royal persona speaking in Denmark to Danes, should speak Danish, that can not be a matter for dispute!
__________________
  #411  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:11 AM
JessRulz's Avatar
Administrator
Blog Editor
Picture of the Month Representative - Luxembourg
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
Well, it depends what one means by 'speaking in public', a quick riposte on her way into an engagement? - categorised as small talk in reality, should be a honed accomplishment for her at this stage. If the reference is to speeches, then she has made an average of 4 a year since her initiation as a royal, possibly written by the scribes at the palace...
In the past three years ('05, '06, '07), Mary has made 14 speeches. They are all listed on kronprinsparret.dk here

And why does everyone assume Mary's speeches (and other princess' too) are written by scribes? I highly doubt any of the current Crown Princesses would allow someone to write their speeches for them. Sure, someone would probably type it out on a nice piece of palace stationery, but I'm sure all of the Crown Princesses (Mary included) would write the majority of their speeches, with some help for fluency/punctuation/etc. I know I have help with fluency/punctuation/etc. when I need to make speeches for school
__________________
**TRF Rules and FAQ**
  #412  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:48 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessRulz View Post
And why does everyone assume Mary's speeches (and other princess' too) are written by scribes? I highly doubt any of the current Crown Princesses would allow someone to write their speeches for them. Sure, someone would probably type it out on a nice piece of palace stationery, but I'm sure all of the Crown Princesses (Mary included) would write the majority of their speeches, with some help for fluency/punctuation/etc. I know I have help with fluency/punctuation/etc. when I need to make speeches for school
To be honest I don't think any crown princess or prince writes his speeches himself unless he or she has a special talent or interest to do so. They might give input or a direction but it is done by employees of the Royal Houses as the content of a speech can be a difficult or tricky issue. The CP's job is to give a good performance when delivering the speech.
__________________
  #413  
Old 07-13-2007, 05:02 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessRulz View Post
In the past three years ('05, '06, '07), Mary has made 14 speeches. They are all listed on kronprinsparret.dk here

And why does everyone assume Mary's speeches (and other princess' too) are written by scribes? I highly doubt any of the current Crown Princesses would allow someone to write their speeches for them. Sure, someone would probably type it out on a nice piece of palace stationery, but I'm sure all of the Crown Princesses (Mary included) would write the majority of their speeches, with some help for fluency/punctuation/etc. I know I have help with fluency/punctuation/etc. when I need to make speeches for school
I don't doubt that they contribute to the document, though it is not they who draft their own speeches. They have people employed to do that for them as has been the case for goodness knows how long with most royal families, if not all
__________________
  #414  
Old 07-13-2007, 06:01 AM
UserDane's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
IIRC, most of the patronages Mary was assigned to early on was inherited from her in-laws.
I know that she took over her patronage of the heart association from Prince Henrik and the Børnehjælpsdagen had been a patronage of the late Queen Ingrid who again had interited it from one in the family since the Børnehjælpsdagen has enjoyed royal patronage since 1907. But perhaps it is only questionable when Mary inherits it
Quote:
Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
She didn't do much for those patronages especially early on.
Interesting. I didn't know that she didn't do much - how did you come about this knowledge?
What is 'not much' compared to her collegues for example (other CPss).
I didn't know a thing about the Danish Federation of Mental Health for example until Mary took on this patronage and I read about her attendence at a weekend seminar (when Christian was still an infant) for prevention of suicides amongst young people. So in my book she 'did' something by way of
making me and probably others as well aware of the problems this federation is dealing with; the mental issue has not had a very high profile before (still no photographers lining up to report about the goings-on there so we might as well discount this patronage right away and concentrate on fashion huhh.... )

Somehow I have a distinct impression that Mary is expected to do X times more than other CPss before being equally recognized. Sad ...
__________________
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
  #415  
Old 07-13-2007, 06:02 AM
UserDane's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I don't doubt that they contribute to the document, though it is not they who draft their own speeches. They have people employed to do that for them as has been the case for goodness knows how long with most royal families, if not all
Margrethe writes her own famous New Year's speeches!
__________________
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
  #416  
Old 07-13-2007, 06:29 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Still I refuse to call Audrey Hepburn shallow even though she was a lowly actress and interested in fashion. So if I dare not call Audrey shallow, how can I call Mary shallow? It defies reason.
Audrey Hepburn was "lowly" - well, then, anybody besides Royality is lowly. Audrey was born to the Dutch nobility and was the niece of a lady-in-waiting to the Dutch queen, a baroness who personally helped raise her niece. Thus Audrey had the manners and the breeding of a noble lady, even though she worked as an actress.
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #417  
Old 07-13-2007, 06:29 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane View Post
Margrethe writes her own famous New Year's speeches!
Ooops, she does too

Apologies
__________________
  #418  
Old 07-13-2007, 06:57 AM
UserDane's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,965
No need for apologies Madame Royale
__________________
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
  #419  
Old 07-13-2007, 08:15 AM
wiwaxia's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Douz, Tunisia
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I certainly take into consideration what it is, I believe, you're stating. Make no mistake about that.

Though, the fact anyone is willingly taking anything from either SogH or BB and not question the purpose or validity of a claim does not surprise me.

Afterall, what would a journalists purpose be if they are unable to sway or encourage their point of view onto another, and another and so on and so forth...

I'm not in need of some overworked and underpayed reporter telling me how it is or how it should be. Though, that's just me.



If it 'is' so, then I would very much like to see the 'matter' rectified.

Thanks for taking my statement into consideration Madame Royale!

IMO there is no validity to be proven, it is a fact that TRH'nesses have not given an interview to the Danish press, but have obliged the foreign press, and this is the bone of contention that motivated the article, along with the possible reasons for this deficit.

Have you further information regarding your last statement involving the economic, and fatigued state of the person I think you are referring to, namely Qvortrup, - my apologies in advance if you meant someone else!

(The last quote in your post is not mine)
__________________
  #420  
Old 07-13-2007, 09:41 AM
Alisa's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post

IMO there is no validity to be proven, it is a fact that TRH'nesses have not given an interview to the Danish press, but have obliged the foreign press, and this is the bone of contention that motivated the article, along with the possible reasons for this deficit.
There is validity to be proven. Because Qvortrup writes for the press (a tabloid magazine at that) doesn't mean his words are golden. In fact, because the publication he writes for isn't considered serious journalism he can embellish whatever information he desires to fit his agenda.

There has been no shortage of interviews given to the Danish press. The fact is that the first extensive interview with the Crown Princess was given to a quality Danish newspaper. Over the years the couple has given interviews to several smaller danish publications on topics like health and fitness. IIRC Mary even gave an interview to a Greenland magazine shortly after the official visit there.

She is doing her job. She has given extensive speeches in Danish and she speaks Danish when talking to Danes at her various engagement. There is no need to give an interview every week or month to prove anything.

Qvortrup needs to accept the fact that the S&H will probably never get an interview from the couple.
__________________

__________________
Those who plot the destruction of others often perish in the attempt. ---Phaedrus
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crown Princess Mary's Ladies-in-Waiting Jasl Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary and Family 402 09-10-2014 01:40 PM
Princess Letizia's Personality Guido King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia and Family 77 06-23-2011 10:15 AM




Popular Tags
abdication belgium birth brussels carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman pieter van vollenhoven president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess mabel princess margriet princess mary princess mary fashion queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]