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  #381  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmony View Post
HRH CPss Mary also attended the solo events below before her patronages were announced

Attended and presented the prizes at the Danish championship in pony show jumping in Silkeborg -13.june 2004. She was one of the judges too.

Opening a "health week" in Fredensborg - Thursday 9.september 2004

Opening of photoexhibition- 28. september 2004

The inauguration of the last part of the highway E39, Aalborg - Hirtshals -Saturday 9.october 2004

Attended a Pink Tribute lunch in the American ambassador's residence, Copenhagen - Friday 1.october 2004

Attended the opening of a stamps fair in Copenhagen - Friday 5.november 2004

Opening of the international week for the educations in Cirius Danmark, Copenhagen - 15.november 2004

Inauguration of the new nursing center, Teglgårdsparken in Kolding-
25.november 2004

Visited an institution for the blind in Fredensborg - 6.december 2004 at 10 am

Presented the Philips Nordic Prize 2004 in Copenhagen - 6.december 2004 at 2pm

Inauguration Bov muncipality's new nursing and senior center "Rønshave" - 11.december 2004
Sign again. In my previous post I had already pointed out that Mary had attended the horse prize giving ( You missed the Art Show) but regardless of what other solo events she took part in later, her THIRD solo event was a fashion show. My original point that as she started with fashion ( Nov 2004 was when the Australian Vogue came out with the pictures she posed for and I think she had done a Danish fashion spread before that) a perception has remained about her that she is a light weight. Regardless of whether it is correct or not the perception is there. I also have already stated that she did go onto other more 'serious' areas and those solo engagements after the fashion show in Aug 2004 reflect that, but the fashion came first.

Wrapped here too is the idea of royalty as celebrity, celebrities go to fashion shows. Royals ( with a capital R) attend worthy causes they are not celebrities. So how Mary is viewed here too is from which part of the spectrum you stand on the Diana and Princess Grace end ( glamour, fashion icons, and good works) or the Princess Anne ( no glamour, a total disdain for fashion trends, work incredibly hard) Most of the newer princess seem to lean towards the Anne spectrum, Mary is seen to lean towards the celebrity end. What will change is with her future work as she continues to play down the fashion angle and more emphasis is placed on her more serious patronages.

I won't make a judgement on Mary's Danish language abilities but denegrating others to apologise for what is seen as a criticism of Mary's language skills annoys me.
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Letizia hasn't learned English, Mathilde hasn't learned Dutch, Prince Henrik doesn't speak proper Danish and Silvia doesn't speak proper Swedish.
Letizia spoke English even before she married, just not to a particularly high level, her "princess training' included classes in high level diplomatic English. Mathilde can speak Dutch she was raised bi-lingual but she speaks it with a French accent. It's Queen Paola who doesn't speak Dutch or very little. Henrik speaks Danish, what isn't proper about it is that he has a very heavy French accent and that's what he's lampooned for. Silvia too speaks Swedish and what isn't proper with her Swedish is that she has a heavy German accent.
In contrast Maxima who also learned Dutch as an adult and from scratch was able to learn Dutch well enough that she could speak to the Dutch press in Dutch at her engagement announcement.
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  #382  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:28 PM
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So how Mary is viewed here too is from which part of the spectrum you stand on the Diana and Princess Grace end ( glamour, fashion icons, and good works) or the Princess Anne ( no glamour, a total disdain for fashion trends, work incredibly hard) Most of the newer princess seem to lean towards the Anne spectrum, Mary is seen to lean towards the celebrity end.
I wouldn't say most of the new crown princesses lean towards Anne. Anne is a former Olympic athlete who has not only has no interest for fashion, she doesn't care for anything that is remotely flattering to a human figure. And I admire her, but I don't see Maxima, Mette-Marit, Mathilde, or Letizia following in Anne's footsteps. They are all quite stylish and very feminine in their appearance. Anne is not.

Anne is a countrywoman, first and foremost. Mary with her sporty background is the crown princess I would say most closely resembles the character of Anne but Mary isn't a former Olympic athlete so I don't think she has the dedication and single-mindedness of Anne.

Now all the royals veer towards the celebrity end compared to the beginning of the 20th century. It used to be that the only contact with celebrity the royals had was at the Annual Royal Command performance but no more. Charles and Camilla who are not celebrity seekers by any means have attended movie premieres quite frenquently.

Diana probably veered more towards celebrity than any other princess but she was also the princess who supported the most of the most noble causes.

So how do you pigeonhole people? Movie premieres are OK but fashion shows are not? When an entertainer or a sports star gets an honor from a monarch is the monarch partaking in the celebrity lifestyle rather than the royal lifestyle?
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  #383  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
Isn't that what the journalist's observation is about? - not much attempt.
And the word for today is, journalist's! Need anymore be said...

Princess Royal? Oh this is becoming too much!
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  #384  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:41 PM
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Maxima was trained from the get go with the highly skilled nuns that run a language school in the Netherlands. Very expensive, and very effecctive, and not neccesarily available in other countries. The nuns apparently can teach a person to speak a language extraordinarily well within a month.
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  #385  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
And the word for today is, journalist's! Need anymore be said...

Princess Royal? Oh this is becoming too much!
Well is it true or not?

How often do we see Mary speak Danish in public?

This is something that is easily quantifiable. If she's speaking in public, someone in the public should be able to hear her and say whether she's speaking in Danish or English. One can count the number of times she speaks Danish in public.

Then and only then will we be able to tell if the journalist was imparting false information.

So who knows how often Mary speaks Danish in public?

btw Madame Royale, by Princess Royal do you mean Princess Anne? It is the correct title, I just caught that is what you meant.
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  #386  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I wouldn't say most of the new crown princesses lean towards Anne. Anne is a former Olympic athlete who has not only has no interest for fashion, she doesn't care for anything that is remotely flattering to a human figure. And I admire her, but I don't see Maxima, Mette-Marit, Mathilde, or Letizia following in Anne's footsteps. They are all quite stylish and very feminine in their appearance. Anne is not.
But that's a very superficial view of Anne! Is that all that is considered important is what she does, that she doesn't care about her clothing choices? I see the other princesses in her mold because Anne has taken on serious causes from 1970 when she became the President of Save the Children, she was making trips to Africa well before the glamour princesses came on the scene. She's on the team organising the London Olympics, she's currently on her third overseas trip this year alone. She takes on non-glamorous patronages, the Butler Trust for one. She visits ( looking at her calendar) at least once a month either a prison of a young offenders institute. The seriousness that she puts into her job as a royal I think is what the other princesses are following, ignore the superficiality and celebrity aspect of what makes a 'good' princess, it's not the clothes they wear, it's the work they do. That's why I see the younger crop of European princesses lean towards the Anne spectrum and not the Diana/Grace end.

The movie premieres are a valid point, yes they are as much a 'celebrity' event as fashion shows but Anne doesn't attend movie premieres!
The Royal Command preformance is dying out ( probably to the Queen's relief!) I don't think there's been one for a while. But its origins are from the era of the monarch 'commanding' their subjects to entertain, a modern version of the court jester. It wasn't a celebrity event as such.
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  #387  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
But that's a very superficial view of Anne! Is that all that is considered important is what she does, that she doesn't care about her clothing choices? I see the other princesses in her mold because Anne has taken on serious causes from 1970 when she became the President of Save the Children, she was making trips to Africa well before the glamour princesses came on the scene. She's on the team organising the London Olympics, she's currently on her third overseas trip this year alone. She takes on non-glamorous patronages, the Butler Trust for one. She visits ( looking at her calendar) at least once a month either a prison of a young offenders institute. The seriousness that she puts into her job as a royal I think is what the other princesses are following, ignore the superficiality and celebrity aspect of what makes a 'good' princess, it's not the clothes they wear, it's the work they do. That's why I see the younger crop of European princesses lean towards the Anne spectrum and not the Diana/Grace end.

The movie premieres are a valid point, yes they are as much a 'celebrity' event as fashion shows but Anne doesn't attend movie premieres!
The Royal Command preformance is dying out ( probably to the Queen's relief!) I don't think there's been one for a while. But its origins are from the era of the monarch 'commanding' their subjects to entertain, a modern version of the court jester. It wasn't a celebrity event as such.
You get me wrong Charlotte. . I admire Anne tremendously and I agree with you that she did a lot of the caring charities before the other princesses came on the scene and she is to be commended for that. I also don't fault Anne for not being a fashion horse. I'm another person who doesn't define myself with the clothes that I wear.

But if you take Anne and Diana, these were two women who were worlds apart and yet both focused on humanitarian causes and worked very hard for those causes. Yet what different personalities we see. The two women couldn't stand each other. Diana called Anne a man in woman's clothing and Anne complained that Diana had 'gooey' ideas about children.

Yet, they both believed strongly in humanitarian causes. So its one facet of the person, a cause-even a serious cause-doesn't define a personality.

Yes Maxima follows serious causes but that is not the totality of what makes up her personality, she is also vivacious, feminine, larger than life. And that is definitely not Anne's personality. The same with Mathilde. I can think if no other opposite to Maxima than the shy demure ever proper Mathilde. These ladies are two worlds apart even though they both sponsor serious charities, they are both as different from each other as Diana was from Anne.

I think you bring up a good point about celebritization. It is as if the function of the celebrity is to entertain the commoner and make us forget our humdrum life; if the royal takes on that role, it is dangerous and makes the royal disposible.
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  #388  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Well is it true or not?

How often do we see Mary speak Danish in public?

This is something that is easily quantifiable. If she's speaking in public, someone in the public should be able to hear her and say whether she's speaking in Danish or English. One can count the number of times she speaks Danish in public.

Then and only then will we be able to tell if the journalist was imparting false information.

So who knows how often Mary speaks Danish in public?

We see what the media lets us see, and what they let us see isn't always fairly reflective upon their 'subject' of choice. And other than various engagements where the media has access to a speech or two, how on earth could an accurate account be formed on the Crown Princess' willingness to exert her Danish skills (whether 'lack of' or not).

I've heard Mary speak Danish in public, and at numerous events she has attended (rightly so). Infact, most of the events she attends in an official capacity as either patroness or a representative of the royal family she speaks Danish, her speeches are anyway. The degree of her pronunciation isn't for I, or anyone to scold. She is learning and shall spend the rest of her life learning. That is a process which shall not cease.

Every event Mary attends is not listed on the official calendar, so how do we know what language dominates the conversation?

It's the tongue she speaks when cameras and jurno's arent around, that's whats got them annoyed.

Anywho, that's my take on it and can appreciate your point of view.

Quote:
btw Madame Royale, by Princess Royal do you mean Princess Anne? It is the correct title, I just caught that is what you meant
I know it's the correct title and given theres only one Princess Royal, I believe it's safe to say that it was Anne to whom I refer.
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  #389  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
A dramatic change would not have given me the impression that Mary was fake. Princess Diana went through a dramatic change in her looks from her engagement to her first year as Princess of Wales and changed again towards the end of her marriage but I would never call her a fake.

Two of my favorite actresses were denizens of the fashion scene and they were lovely and deep and caring people: Catherine Deneuve and Audrey Hepburn.

So yes I agree with you that fashion is pretty shallow but I disagree with you that Mary's association with fashion makes her shallow.
Diana's changes were much more gradual in her 16, 17 years as a princess.

As for Deneuve and Hepburn, I wouldn't call them "denizens of the fashion scene", especially Audrey. Audrey Hepburn was a trend setter. She's not a follower of fashion. She wore what she liked. Fashion designers and the masses followed her. Plus, there are different expectations for an actress and a princess. Being shallow is expected for an actress, but not for a princess.
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  #390  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
It's the tongue she speaks when cameras and jurno's arent around, that's whats got them annoyed.
Well you know Madame Royale, you in Australia and I in the US probably don't see all her public appearances when she speaks Danish because we live in English speaking countries so I take that back it is hard for us to judge.

But how would the journos know about the tongue Mary speaks when they're not around and why would they complain about it? They're not around.
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  #391  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:48 PM
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Mary's hardly a follower herslef, given there is no one style she wears and neither is she a trend setter, imop!

I do agree with ysbel that maintaining an interest in fashion does not allude to the possibility of shallownes. It's only what people wish to make of that interest and the person, then manipulating it to a "reality" they see fit.
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  #392  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:54 PM
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Well you know Madame Royale, you in Australia and I in the US probably don't see all her public appearances when she speaks Danish because we live in English speaking countries so I take that back it is hard for us to judge.

But how would the journos know about the tongue Mary speaks when they're not around and why would they complain about it? They're not around.
Of course, we are not so privy as are the Danes and I'm assuming neither of us feel we are

It's the fact (as I see it) that journo's don't know what tongue Mary uses when they aren't around which encourages them to question how much Danish she actually confers upon her day to day life. They want to be intrusive, they want to know everything and because they don't...
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  #393  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:00 AM
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Diana's changes were much more gradual in her 16, 17 years as a princess.

As for Deneuve and Hepburn, I wouldn't call them "denizens of the fashion scene", especially Audrey. Audrey Hepburn was a trend setter. She's not a follower of fashion. She wore what she liked. Fashion designers and the masses followed her. Plus, there are different expectations for an actress and a princess. Being shallow is expected for an actress, but not for a princess.
Diana's changes were pretty significant in her first year: she went from being on Blackwell's worst dressed list to the most stylish woman in the world in about the same time as Mary has been a princess. Diana's clothing choices her first year as a princess were horrendous and they got immediately better after William was born only one year later and definitely before Harry's birth. You can see the difference in the clothing she wore when she came out of the hospital with William compared to the clothes she wore when she came out of the hospital with Harry only two years later. What a transformation in such a short time and I still don't believe its fake any more than I believe Mary is fake.

I think you and I have a different opinion on denizens of fashion. Audrey definitely followed fashion and fashion shows were her passion long after she grew older and didn't feel comfortable wearing the latest styles. Her clothes were trendsetting but that may have been more due to the influence of her designer Hubert de Givenchy who saw Hepburn as the perfect canvas for his designs. Its debatable whether the real creative fashion mind belonged to Audrey or whether it belonged to de Givenchy. It doesn't change my opinion of La Grande Hepburn at all but I believe in giving credit where credit is due and credit for Audrey's trendsetting I think does not fairly rest on her shoulders alone.

But my point is that Audrey with her acting, her work for UNICEF is much more than the sum of what clothes she wore even though she cared deeply about fashion and the clothes she wore.

Still I refuse to call Audrey Hepburn shallow even though she was a lowly actress and interested in fashion. So if I dare not call Audrey shallow, how can I call Mary shallow? It defies reason.
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  #394  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:01 AM
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Thanks a lot Harmony
So a lot of her patronages were announced concurrently in January 2005 - and her patronage for CIFF and Designers Nest did not come first - as some seem to think.
Announcing a list of patronages has as much value as the paper it prints on. IIRC, most of the patronages Mary was assigned to early on was inherited from her in-laws. She didn't do much for those patronages especially early on.

But she started being seen at fashion shows before her marriage, posting for fashion magazines and being hyped as a "fashion icon" about the time of her first trip to Australia. She was "associated" with fashion long before she established her identity in any other associations.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:24 AM
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Of course, we are not so privy as are the Danes and I'm assuming neither of us feel we are

It's the fact (as I see it) that journo's don't know what tongue Mary uses when they aren't around which encourages them to question how much Danish she actually confers upon her day to day life. They want to be intrusive, they want to know everything and because they don't...
Well complaining about that would be rather silly I agree Madame Royale :p but I thought they were complaining about the lack of interviews with the Danish media in Danish.
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  #396  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:29 AM
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Letizia spoke English even before she married, just not to a particularly high level, her "princess training' included classes in high level diplomatic English. Mathilde can speak Dutch she was raised bi-lingual but she speaks it with a French accent. It's Queen Paola who doesn't speak Dutch or very little. Henrik speaks Danish, what isn't proper about it is that he has a very heavy French accent and that's what he's lampooned for. Silvia too speaks Swedish and what isn't proper with her Swedish is that she has a heavy German accent.
In contrast Maxima who also learned Dutch as an adult and from scratch was able to learn Dutch well enough that she could speak to the Dutch press in Dutch at her engagement announcement.
Exactly. If Letizia didn't speak English, she wouldn't have been sent to cover 9/11 in New York or 2000 presidential election in US by her company. But whatever level her English is, Letizia won't be the queen of an English-speaking country. Mary will be the queen of a Danish-speaking country. These two are not equivalent.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:35 AM
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Well complaining about that would be rather silly I agree Madame Royale :p but I thought they were complaining about the lack of interviews with the Danish media in Danish.
True true.

I wasn't so much commenting on interviews per say, just the media's longing for more and more information, and when that information isn't handed over their ability to become incessantly unsympathetic towards that person(s) is quite common.

I wonder how many people would give Mary's public speaking the depth of thought they clearly have, if it weren't for the media's constant scrutiny and judgement.

Hope I'm making sense..haha

I would have replied more, but as it stands, I'm needed elswhere so I apologise for my premature departue from this discussion
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:35 AM
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Announcing a list of patronages has as much value as the paper it prints on. IIRC, most of the patronages Mary was assigned to early on was inherited from her in-laws. She didn't do much for those patronages especially early on.

But she started being seen at fashion shows before her marriage, posting for fashion magazines and being hyped as a "fashion icon" about the time of her first trip to Australia. She was "associated" with fashion long before she established her identity in any other associations.
So what you are saying is that Mary was first associated with fashion shows. And therefore Mary has a shallow personality?

Why don't you tell us why you think this way rather than just repeat it over and over again? Your statements don't make any more sense than the first time you made these statement a couple of pages ago.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
And the word for today is, journalist's! Need anymore be said...

Princess Royal? Oh this is becoming too much!

Unless of course one has a personal connection with CPMary (etc), there is no alternative, they are the source for the opinions around here!
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:42 AM
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Unless of course one has a personal connection with CPMary (etc), there is no alternative, they are the source for the opinions around here!

Unless of course people are gullible enough to believe everything they read.

And well, this thread takes the cake!
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