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  #361  
Old 07-12-2007, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
The explanation for their lack of enthusiasm may be quite simple, and that is that C P Mary is not in any position to execute an interview in Danish. The DRF have sensibly evaluated, that despite everything, it would be to embarrassing if the danish princess communicated with her countrymen in English.

Everything suggests that C P Mary's danish knowledge is limited to reading up speeches from a piece of paper, that others have written for her. And also to give make small talk which is minus any content. Unexpected questions are beyond the princesses danish level.

Danish is difficult to learn, that is agreed, but that said, C P Mary should use a little more energy to learn it. We don't expect much from her, only that she should commit herself to mastering her new countryís language, yes, that we expect, and demand.
The language issue is interesting - as Mary comes from an English-speaking country, she hasn't learned any other language before. She probably lacks the tools for learning for example I have from studying five foreign languages from very early on. And she isn't the only one - Letizia hasn't learned English, Mathilde hasn't learned Dutch, Prince Henrik doesn't speak proper Danish and Silvia doesn't speak proper Swedish. Not being able to learn a language is hardly a character flaw; some people just simply cannot do it as well as others. But journalists (if you can call a person who works for Se og Hor that) find it an easy target; Henrik and Silvia are still after decades being lampooned for it.

Interestingly, in a documentary done before the wedding, Mary speaks to Frederik in Danish - while they are in Australia. I would imagine she has put quite an effort on learning.

Quote:
Where did I say she's shallow because she's "well put together"? Read my points again:
Dear highpriestess, I wasn't commenting your post but rather the whole chain
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  #362  
Old 07-12-2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisamaria View Post
The language issue is interesting - as Mary comes from an English-speaking country, she hasn't learned any other language before. She probably lacks the tools for learning for example I have from studying five foreign languages from very early on. And she isn't the only one - Letizia hasn't learned English, Mathilde hasn't learned Dutch, Prince Henrik doesn't speak proper Danish and Silvia doesn't speak proper Swedish. Not being able to learn a language is hardly a character flaw; some people just simply cannot do it as well as others. But journalists (if you can call a person who works for Se og Hor that) find it an easy target; Henrik and Silvia are still after decades being lampooned for it.

Interestingly, in a documentary done before the wedding, Mary speaks to Frederik in Danish - while they are in Australia. I would imagine she has put quite an effort on learning.

Dear highpriestess, I wasn't commenting your post but rather the whole chain

I am not sure where the observation you make of a 'character flaw' comes from! And the translation from S&H was about C P Mary, and C P Frederik, not a comparison with half the royal houses of Europe, so I will pass on that one! Henrik Qvortrup is a respected journalist, despite the fact that he is attached to a dubious rag, and I would consider his opinion equally as relevant as a mouthfull of nauseating praise about someone's clothes. However, something must have triggered off his comments!
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  #363  
Old 07-12-2007, 02:44 PM
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Give her a break. That she is still (in the perception of some) lacking confidence in her spoken Danish is completely understandable. Learning a foreign language as an adult is exceptionally difficult and requires the brain to "rewire" itself - it's much more difficult than learning a second language as a child. That Mary is reluctant to speak more than a few sentences in Danish should not been seen as a personality fault but rather the completely understandable reluctance of someone who knows their every move is being watched to place themselves at the mercy of an unforgiving public.
Hm, how much of a break does she need? It has been about four years since her move to Denmark. If I were to move to Denmark I would have no choice but to learn Danish, and quickly at that. Without the aid of high-priced tutors!! I think the language issue gives a glimps at her superficial and narcissistic personality. She looks every inch a princess, just glorious, but after a while looks just aren't enough.
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  #364  
Old 07-12-2007, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
Henrik Qvortrup is a respected journalist, despite the fact that he is attached to a dubious rag, and I would consider his opinion equally as relevant as a mouthfull of nauseating praise about someone's clothes. However, something must have triggered off his comments!
Come again.... respected??? With all due respect, what has formed your opinion that he is respected?

I know that I am prejudiced against Qvortrup so I won't even get started on the numerous fights, law suits etc. he has been involved in , or the increasing number of celebrities in Denmark who have refused to have anything to do with Se&HÝr - only because he is the editor. In mine - and many others' opinion - he has set new standards for gutter journalism (d*** now I did start even if I didn't want to ...)

Qvortrup seems to hold and carefully nurse a grudge against the Danish royals because he does not get the interviews etc. that he feels himself entitled to.

Even royals have standards after all....
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  #365  
Old 07-12-2007, 04:04 PM
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Personally, I don't think that you can even try to guess someone's true personality unless you have been around them more than a couple of times. Mary seems like a genuinely kind, caring person, which I don't doubt that she is all the time, but we can never TRULY know it. We can only assume so.

And I don't think that someone's ablility/inability to speak a language is reason to blame them. It is much harder for adults to learn a foreign language than children and teenagers, and it is much easier if they learn languages as babies. It takes hard work and determination to be fluent in a language, which I think Mary is trying to do. I don't know if she and Frederik speak it at home, but I think that they must have learned a lesson from the trouble Henrik got in, living there 40 years and not being good in the language. I think that she is trying hard.
  #366  
Old 07-12-2007, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UserDane View Post
Come again.... respected??? With all due respect, what has formed your opinion that he is respected?

I know that I am prejudiced against Qvortrup so I won't even get started on the numerous fights, law suits etc. he has been involved in , or the increasing number of celebrities in Denmark who have refused to have anything to do with Se&HÝr - only because he is the editor. In mine - and many others' opinion - he has set new standards for gutter journalism (d*** now I did start even if I didn't want to ...)

Qvortrup seems to hold and carefully nurse a grudge against the Danish royals because he does not get the interviews etc. that he feels himself entitled to.

Even royals have standards after all....

Just my own valid opinion UserDane! you are obviously of another conviction, but that's what makes for a good debate, even though you sound a bit . Maybe Qvortrup isn't a royalist, and thinks the whole thing a bit of a charade anyway, it is after all just another valid opinion, and besides, there have been a few rumblings regarding the Crown Prince pair of late, recently from Jes Dorph-Petersen, so it is possible that there is some substance to the stories after all!
  #367  
Old 07-12-2007, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
Just my own valid opinion UserDane! you are obviously of another conviction, but that's what makes for a good debate, even though you sound a bit . Maybe Qvortrup isn't a royalist, and thinks the whole thing a bit of a charade anyway, it is after all just another valid opinion, and besides, there have been a few rumblings regarding the Crown Prince pair of late, recently from Jes Dorph-Petersen, so it is possible that there is some substance to the stories after all!
Wiwaxia, I don't question Qvortrup because he is not a royalist (if he got a better paid job at BilledBladet tomorrow, I am sure he would be a fervent royalist by the way...). Very few of my family or friends could be called royalists and that certainly doesn't change my good opinion.
I question Qvortrup's work ethics - his ethics generally, really, not only in relation to royals but in relation to the way he generally treats the people featured in his magazine.
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  #368  
Old 07-12-2007, 05:44 PM
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Well, having worked in PR I can tell you a few things for certain, having dealt with journalists on a daily basis.

There are good journalists and bad journalists, and by that I mean their abilities. What I have noticed is that the journalists whose abilities are questionable, who can't write an interesting article based solely on what is fact and reality, are the ones who generally sensationalize alot. These are the tactics that they use to take attention away from the fact that they are simply not good writers, or don't have good information, or sources. They have to get attention somehow, and as they say with children, negative attention is still attention. In this case, it will still sell papers, because what they write is silly enough in some cases to simply overshadow their lack of ability.
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  #369  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Well, having worked in PR I can tell you a few things for certain, having dealt with journalists on a daily basis.

There are good journalists and bad journalists, and by that I mean their abilities. What I have noticed is that the journalists whose abilities are questionable, who can't write an interesting article based solely on what is fact and reality, are the ones who generally sensationalize alot. These are the tactics that they use to take attention away from the fact that they are simply not good writers, or don't have good information, or sources. They have to get attention somehow, and as they say with children, negative attention is still attention. In this case, it will still sell papers, because what they write is silly enough in some cases to simply overshadow their lack of ability.
Quite right Empress- hence we should all ignore the sensationalised royalty articles in Hello magazine etc.
  #370  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:12 PM
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Ignore all of them? I would disagree with you.

A small minority of these stories do have a grain of truth to them. One just has to be smart enough to decipher through them and read between the lines.
  #371  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras View Post
Ignore all of them? I would disagree with you.

A small minority of these stories do have a grain of truth to them. One just has to be smart enough to decipher through them and read between the lines.

You are quite right - one cannot ignore any of the articles in fact and that is what people who read negative stories do not understand. Many sad tales of all royals usually start like this and then end up being printed by all the press as it eventually is acknowledged as the truth.
  #372  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:42 PM
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Oceans of salt and all of that. People will believe what they want to believe, and the media is very skilled at spinning stories to fit the needs and desires of their buyers. Anyone gullible enough to believe everything that they read is likely a happy person indeed as they get so many conflicting stories from differing sources that they could eventually find something to be happy about.
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  #373  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Oceans of salt and all of that. People will believe what they want to believe, and the media is very skilled at spinning stories to fit the needs and desires of their buyers. Anyone gullible enough to believe everything that they read is likely a happy person indeed as they get so many conflicting stories from differing sources that they could eventually find something to be happy about.
ROTFL!

One thing is for sure - Se&HÝr won't get so soon an interview from the danish CP couple.
  #374  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:53 PM
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Can someone please tell me what ROTFL means?
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  #375  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Can someone please tell me what ROTFL means?
Empress, it is the same as this little smilie .
  #376  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Can someone please tell me what ROTFL means?
I think it means Rolling On The Floor Laughing
(ups sorry Mandy, we posted at the same time)
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  #377  
Old 07-12-2007, 07:03 PM
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OK! Thanks for the info!
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  #378  
Old 07-12-2007, 07:31 PM
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Well I do have to admit if its true that Mary is reluctant to speak Danish in public for fear of making a mistake and being made fun of and if she is turning down interviews with Danish magazines for the same reason, I wouldn't call it a character flaw but it describes a personality that doesn't like to fail or be made to look foolish in public and that fear of looking foolish is a terrible personaility trait to have when learning to speak a new language besides making one look snobbish.

Anybody sounds foolish when learning a new language and hardly anybody can learn a new language quickly with no mistakes or no accent. People sound silly when they are learning a new language but if you have the desire to connect and communicate with people, people will understand your desire to communicate even if your new language skills are somewhat lacking. The attempt and the good will are more important than perfection of execution.

Mary may be scared of not being perfect when speaking Danish but if that's the reason she is turning down interviews and public speaking engagements in Danish, then the message can be she doesn't care enough about the people to step into their world and speak their language. That may be the farthest thing from her mind but unwillingness to speak the native language is never considered a positive personality trait in any foreigner-whether they are princess or labourer. In fact, Mathilde has been criticized too for not being able to speak Flemish better because Flemish is a language of her country so this criticism is not just Mary-bashing. When a non-royal foreigner comes to a country to live, they have a hard time being accepted into the greater society if they can't show that they can function in the native language.

She may be more comfortable speaking Danish in private where people are more indulgent with her mistakes but she is a public person and she is Crown Princess representing Denmark so I do think the Danish people deserves to have a Crown Princess who tries to speak the language to them as much as possible in her public role as princess.

In fact it can be said that if Mary is willing to let the Danes see her less than perfect Danish and still try to communicate with them where they are and not expect everyone around her to translate everything in English, that desire to connect is a much more powerful message that comes through rather than some grammatical mistakes, etc.

Its really important for her to get over that fear because of her role as a representative of the Danish people and practicing the language as much as possible is the only way to get over the fear. The other foreign Queens have not been made fun of that much. Queen Ingrid's accent was considered charming.
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  #379  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
People sound silly when they are learning a new language but if you have the desire to connect and communicate with people, people will understand your desire to communicate even if your new language skills are somewhat lacking. The attempt and the good will are more important than perfection of execution.
You are so right. It reminds me of how some English speakers go to another country and expects the people there to speak to them in English rather than trying to communicate in the country's language.
  #380  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:49 PM
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I agree completely. I don't see what the big deal is. or whoever made the statement, whether it be a respected journalist or a citizen off the street, it is downright strange that Mary hasn't given any more interviews in Danish and that she doesn't make long speeches in public. I wonder that myself and I'm in Australia, if I was living in Denmark, I would be expecting a lot more of the person who lives off my taxes! just a thought <img>
I think she is beautiful and regal and she works hard, but I am still puzzled by this language thing. Even if she makes mistakes it's all part of the process.. it's better to be out there making mistakes and communicating with the public than nothing at all.. I am also sick of people saying to give her a break, sure she works hard but at the end of the day she gets a royal way of life-she has private lessons with expensive tutors..and all the help she wants, what more can you ask for? ..if I had been in Denmark for 6 years like her, I would have worked my butt off to learn Danish, first and foremost. Over losing weight and looking beautiful as she did.. I do agree that this could be due to her superficial personality but as someone mentioned, we'll never know, we cannot judge her personality from the media.

I do think that above all she owes the Danes more interviews and stronger appearances..after all she's a public figure and saying that she's not happy with her Danish is not good enough, when you're the CP of Denmark..<img>
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