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  #321  
Old 07-11-2007, 11:01 AM
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without a doubt everyone should be entitled to their own opinions and have the right to voice them..
my gripe is when ppl criticise her for her "inarticulation of either english or danish".. i too am linguistically challenged and find it extremely difficult at times to string a coherent sentence together!
her linguistic abilities and fashion sense really should not play a role in how she is perceived..
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  #322  
Old 07-11-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
If you don't count black eyeliners and sliver eye shadow, what other things you count as "makeup"? As for foundation, you would have to look for photos yourself. You can start with her Australia trip.
If you're judging Mary's personality for the quantity of make-up she wears? For your information, all princesses wear make-up, all of them. I would say that Letizia, Mette-Marit and Mary are the most natural ones.
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  #323  
Old 07-11-2007, 11:19 AM
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Well said Empress...

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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Was she there in her role as patron, or was she there as a private person who was doing a bit of shopping? If it was not an official event, then why is it being mentioned here?
She was there in a private capacity with her stylist. IIRC there were no photos, just a small blurb from newspaper. Mind you this shopping trip was almost 3 years ago!
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  #324  
Old 07-11-2007, 11:22 AM
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We can like or dislike whoever we wish. We can say whatever it is we have to say, but no one can expect not to be met with opinions which differ to their own.

I place my opinion, another places theres, someone doesn't agree, it gets discussed etc and so on.

I state my comments, and responses are what naturally follows. If anyone finds it difficult to cope with opinions which differ to theirs, then theres always an alternative...

If someone doesn't agree with me or my opnion, that's fine, I'll get over it.

People who don't like Mary for whatever reason quite often than not resort to trivial, unsubstantiated and down right aggressive rumours and press articles to back up their standpoint. Or, if she wasn't smiling a certain way in a photograph, she wears "too much" makeup, she's a clothes horse etc etc.

Why is there a need to be purely negative about someone 'we' do not know?

Why is there a need to be blatantly insulting?

Why is there a need to believe everything you read?

Put aside the fact she is the Crown Princess, and take a moment to see the whole picture. We are speaking of someones mother, someones wife, someones daughter and sister...this is a lady who married a man and is now in an extroardianry position, but it doesn't make her any less real or human.

So many times you read 'I mean no offence by it', but if they mean no offence then why go for the jugular, instead of being constructive? Why? Because they choose not to.

So if anyone feels somewhat uncofmortable about posting within this thread, I wouldn't start laying blame at everyone elses feet before acknowledging their own involvement.
  #325  
Old 07-11-2007, 11:36 AM
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This topic is becoming a little controversial in my opinion, but I wanted to say this: People are either going to like or dislike Princess Mary, it is a choice that as individuals we make. Maybe the reasons that some people give for disliking her are not valid to some board members, but are valid to the person expressing their opinion, as petty as that opinion may be its important to them. Your perception is your reality, I was once told , and its true...some want to glorify Mary, others are neutral and others are going to find fault with her. Each opinion is our own.
  #326  
Old 07-11-2007, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphire View Post
Your perception is your reality, I was once told , and its true...
I would argue that the "truth" shall set us free. And the truth of the matter is: we do not know this woman. Our perception is based on a limited understanding of her.
  #327  
Old 07-11-2007, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
I would argue that the "truth" shall set us free. And the truth of the matter is: we do not know this woman. Our perception is based on a limited understanding of her.
It is still "our" perception, whether its true or not. How many times have we not met people and disliked them or not trust them at first sight, only to find out that they are wonderful people. Why are we suppose to dress nicely when we go for a job interview? because that first impression counts. We do not know this woman so we all have a different perception of who she is, therefore, everybody's opinion of her should be valid since we all bring something different to the table. Different people, different perceptions.
  #328  
Old 07-11-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphire View Post
It is still "our" perception, whether its true or not. How many times have we not met people and disliked them or not trust them at first sight, only to find out that they are wonderful people. Why are we suppose to dress nicely when we go for a job interview? because that first impression counts. We do not know this woman so we all have a different perception of who she is, therefore, everybody's opinion of her should be valid since we all bring something different to the table. Different people, different perceptions.
You are correct and I am in complete agreement with your above statement. However, not liking someone is not justification to say hurtful things for the precise reason you stated. It's only a perception - meaning you could be right or wrong. If you could be wrong, people should measure their words. I don't think it's wise or kind to say mean things about people, just because you can. We are all entitled to our opinions - within reason - or perhaps, that's asking too much...
  #329  
Old 07-11-2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Oh its makeup alright, but heavy? I think not.

I have seen a large quantity of photos from the Australian trip (amongst many other trips undertaken by the royal couple in an official capacity) and needless to say, the heavy use of makeup you so obstinately refer to, seems to remain elusive.

Not being able to back up your claim with substantiative evidence, gives your argument very little credibility.
If you don't consider silver glittering eye shadow and black eye liners "heavy" makeup, it's pointless to point to any photos. You are not going to see it.
  #330  
Old 07-11-2007, 02:20 PM
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Enough about the make-up. Move on please.

Danish Forum Moderators.
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  #331  
Old 07-11-2007, 02:51 PM
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First, when some previous posters commented that they disliked Mary, some Mary fans asked to hear the "reason" why. I stated some of the most cited reasons why people seem to have a negative impression of Mary, now some posters asked why we had to point out the specific reasons why.

For people who asked why I mentioned her makeup, fashion etc., please see my original post. I never said she's the only princess who wears makeup or improves her wardrobe etc. I said it's the dramatic change gave people the impression of her being fake. Again, I said that she's not the only princess who attends fashion shows or wears designers' wear. It's her being associated so much with fashion and hyped so much for her fashion that gave an impression of being shallow. It's frustrating that some posters keep taking part of my comments out of context and challeging on the specific incidents instead of the points I made.

Articulation is important because that is how people judge your intelligence.{Removed inappropriate comment -Empress} But I specifically said that I didn't know whether Mary is intelligent or not. I could only see that she was not very articulate and hasn't shown any other signs that lead me to think she's intellectual. Does a royal need to be an intellectual? No. Some of us just admire intellectual people more. That's all.

We all based our impression and opinions on photos, news articles and videos posted online. Same with the people who like Mary. None of us "knows" her personally. There's no way for us to know her real personality. Same for the original poster who started this thread or others who gushed about her "personality". Why are only people who have a negative impression of Mary asked: "Do you believe in everything you read?" Shouldn't the same question be posted to the people who have a possitive impression of her? Give all of us some credit for thinking on our own, would you?

Image and public perception are usually more important to a public figure supported by tax payers' money than real personality.
  #332  
Old 07-11-2007, 04:18 PM
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What I will never understand is why Frederik after those girls like Maria Montell or that model (both very blonde..) decided to marry Mary. Or better: Why she decided to marry him. In her shadow he comes over even more boyish and shy (with this looks in his eyes as if he expects to get a trashing in a few seconds...).
She appears very ladylike and mature. Sometimes I believe she´s Frederik´s sister instead of his wife.
  #333  
Old 07-11-2007, 04:18 PM
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We gush because we like what we see. For what we don't know, we are willing to give her the benefit of a doubt. It's quite obvious some of you don't and can't do the same. For the record, no one is expecting you to. It's your supreme right to express your point of view. I don’t know how many times that has been stated. We don't agree, and that's a value that is basic to intellectual thinking. When we are at an impasse, we should agree to disagree. I think this thread is beginning to be a bit redundant - really.
  #334  
Old 07-11-2007, 05:59 PM
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I find it sort of funny and very interesting that so many people have such a need to pour all sorts of stuff over Mary - there is no thread like this about Maxima or Mette-Marit or - heaven forbid - Mathilde. Why is that? There must be lots of people out there who don't like any one of them. Maybe we just are too polite to whack them publicly - or, as in my case, too darn lazy

I have personally always liked Mary; she is the only CP I follow, and the only one I actually think I might like to know. I like her restraint and calmness, but then again, it has always been a characteristic I esteem in people more than the kind of on-your-face enthusiasm our culture now seems to admire (just watch any American reality show - the giggly screaming makes my head to burst). Is it a sign of shallowness? Snobbery? Shyness? Probably not; some of us just are put together that way.

That aside, no matter how silly it is to judge people on their appearance, we all do it constantly - most girls here probably look very much like their friends do, and would never want to be seen with people who looked the polar opposite. Sometimes looks do tell the whole story, sometimes they don't. With that said, claiming that she must a shallow person because she is so well put together does sound just a little self-righteous, not to mention oxymoronic
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  #335  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
In Milan for the fashion shows with her stylist Anja. Nothing to do with promoting Danish fashion as they were at Italian designers' parades.
So, many royals go to fashion shows. what does this have to do with her personality? i dont see the connection at all... & where there any pitures?articles?
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  #336  
Old 07-11-2007, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisamaria View Post
I find it sort of funny and very interesting that so many people have such a need to pour all sorts of stuff over Mary - there is no thread like this about Maxima or Mette-Marit or - heaven forbid - Mathilde. Why is that? There must be lots of people out there who don't like any one of them. Maybe we just are too polite to whack them publicly - or, as in my case, too darn lazy

I would certainly like to see the comments made about the above mentioned Crown Princesses, Letizia too, I am sure the support from their admirers would be just the same as it is here. It's human nature to defend someone you think is being unfairly treated.
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  #337  
Old 07-11-2007, 11:10 PM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisamaria View Post
With that said, claiming that she must a shallow person because she is so well put together does sound just a little self-righteous, not to mention oxymoronic
Where did I say she's shallow because she's "well put together"? Read my points again:

"I never said she's the only princess who wears makeup or improves her wardrobe etc. I said it's the dramatic change gave people the impression of her being fake. Again, I said that she's not the only princess who attends fashion shows or wears designers' wear. It's her being associated so much with fashion and hyped so much for her fashion that gave an impression of being shallow."

Yes, this thread has become repeatitive because people can't read.
  #338  
Old 07-12-2007, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
I said it's the dramatic change gave people the impression of her being fake. Again, I said that she's not the only princess who attends fashion shows or wears designers' wear. It's her being associated so much with fashion and hyped so much for her fashion that gave an impression of being shallow."
A dramatic change would not have given me the impression that Mary was fake. Princess Diana went through a dramatic change in her looks from her engagement to her first year as Princess of Wales and changed again towards the end of her marriage but I would never call her a fake.

Even so, I don't see the dramatic change in Mary's look you see and yes I have seen the chunky picture from the starsite and I saw the skin color change and the loss of weight (and more recently her weight gain) and the difference in makeup and quite frankly to me all these changes don't look that significant. I think what has changed the most is her posture over the first pictures of her and if that's the most dramatic change then that is a good thing because her posture in the first candid shots of her in Australia looked bad and uncomfortable. She looks more polished, less sporty but she still has a classic European look and she did even when she was in Australia.

Quote:
Again, I said that she's not the only princess who attends fashion shows or wears designers' wear. It's her being associated so much with fashion and hyped so much for her fashion that gave an impression of being shallow."
I don't hear about her association with fashion outside of boards like this where members like you use her association with fashion to label her fake and shallow. Outside of these boards and away from people who can't seem to get over those initial Vogue shoots, Mary's association with fashion is maybe mentioned 3-4 times a year when she attends a CIFF event and then maybe once or twice more. For most people, that's not an overly saturated association with fashion.

Now I think fashion is pretty shallow but I'm not about to label a woman as shallow even if she follows fashion a lot more seriously than I do. Two of my favorite actresses were denizens of the fashion scene and they were lovely and deep and caring people: Catherine Deneuve and Audrey Hepburn.

So yes I agree with you that fashion is pretty shallow but I disagree with you that Mary's association with fashion makes her shallow.
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  #339  
Old 07-12-2007, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dazzling View Post
So, many royals go to fashion shows. what does this have to do with her personality? i dont see the connection at all... & where there any pitures?articles?
Sigh, yes an ability to read accurately would be nice. My post about Mary attending a Milan fashion show was in response to another poster's question about whether or not Mary had attended fashion shows other than those dealing with her patronages. Yes there were pictures and an article that's how I know that she went to Milan with her stylist.

Quote:
She was there in a private capacity with her stylist. IIRC there were no photos, just a small blurb from newspaper.
There were photos of her attendence as that's what I've seen the photos of Mary and Anja sitting in a front row at a fashion parade. I haven't read a newspaper blurb about the trip. The photos are probably still around one of the photo sites if anyone's got the patience to find them.

The negative connotation that sticks with Mary over her attendence at fashion events is because she started with those events. Norway's Mette-Marit also is a patron of Norwgian fashion and attends fashion events dealing with Norwegian fashion both in Norway and last year in London. ( Her sister-in-law Martha-Louise too attends parades) But Mette-Marit didn't start with fashion she developed her more serious patronages first, Mental Health ( she even was in a documentary) AIDS, Norway first then UNAIDS. Then she moved onto fashion. ( Martha-Louise started with health and disability issues)
Mary started with fashion and then moved onto the Danish refugee council, World Health but the perception stayed in regards to her being a light weight because of the fashion angle. ( Regardless of whether or not it's a major industry, fishing is too but she didn't promote that)

Other princesses who attend fashion parades in a private or official capacity tend to be the 'non-ruling' ones. Marie-Chantal is a regular at Valentino, Caroline of Hannover ( and daughter, sons) Valentino, Karl Largerfeld, Princess Mabel of Netherlands ( not in the official Royal House) Viktor and Rolf who she supported before she was married. Alexia of Greece, charity fashion parades to support the Downs Syndrome association of Barcelona where she worked as a therapist.

Valentino at the moment has a large retrospective exhibition in Rome, royals attended, Marie-Chantal, Rosario of Bulgaria. Clothide of Savoy, Duchess of Calabria, Caroline of Hannover. Maxima's wedding dress ( made by Valentino) is exhibited but Maxima did not attend.
  #340  
Old 07-12-2007, 12:50 AM
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The negative connotation that sticks with Mary over her attendence at fashion events is because she started with those events.
However, there's not much Mary can do about that now. If people want to continue to judge her as flighty or shallow after she's picked up on more serious causes, that's their privilege but in my opinion, Mary shouldn't waste too much time trying to change their minds because if you're going to still judge her on something she started two-three years ago, its a losing battle.

No public figure is going to be liked by everyone. There is the group that cannot stand a public figure, the group for whom the public figure can do no wrong, and the one's in the middle. The first group is hopeless and the public figure should forget them, the last group is dedicated and will like the public figure no matter what, so the public figure can forget them too but its the middle group whose perceptions can be changed is the group the public figure should be paying attention to. They may either like or dislike the public figure based on what they see now and not some opinion they made two and three years ago.
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