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  #261  
Old 07-03-2007, 12:50 PM
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Great post on the previous page, Jo. An Invaluable and level headed contribution I thought! And one I agree with wholeheartedly.
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  #262  
Old 07-09-2007, 01:46 AM
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I am not a fan of Mary. I understand why some people feel she's "fake", "shallow", "arrogant" etc.

Mary is probably the one who changed the most after dating/marrying her prince. She changed her accent, skin (thanks to a well-published skin consultant), style (thanks to a well-published stylist), lost weight etc. in order to look more royal. Sure, other princesses also become more polished with more money. But Mary changed the most. That gave the impression of her being fake. She's no longer the a bit chubby, sporty, tan Australian woman in tank top. She's now a creation all the money can buy.

As for being shallow, this has a lot to do with all the "fashion icon" business. She did much more than just attending several fashion shows "in support of Danish fashion industry". She's actively hyped as a fashion icon by Danish, Australian press and perhaps, Danish court. She modeled foreigners' clothes and posted for fashion magazines. No other princesses in recent memory have ever done that. (Diana did the fashion shoots after her divorce. Plus, if I remember correctly, Diana wore her own clothes for the shoot.) When she acts more like a celebrity than a royal, it's not surprising that a lot of people have the impression of a shallow person. The fact that she was shown as "turing it on" for the camera but no interest in the event she's attending doesn't help.

Mary also has a very haughty body language. The chin-in-the-air is well noted, even by the painter of her portrait. She also extended her hand in this very hauty way that I just found very offputting. She would hold her hand out in a 45 degree angle down from her wrist. It seems to show her superiority or reluctance to shake the other person's hand. She's caught on photos like that often before.

I personally don't think she's arrogant. I do think she's very insecure. A confident person wouldn't have changed so much after marriage. She seems to think the haughty body language is how a princess supposed to be and she wants to be seens as a true princess. It's another new thing she adapts after marriage. She's the most at ease interacting with children because she knew children were star-struch and wouldn't judge her poor Danish or lack of intellectual capacity. I don't think she has much intellectual depth from all the interviews she gave. She's inarticulate even in her native English. But again, since Fred isn't exactly an intellectual giant himself. Mary suits him just fine.

These are just from my observations. I don't mean to offend any Danes or Aussies.
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  #263  
Old 07-09-2007, 03:38 AM
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Mary is probably the one who changed the most after dating/marrying her prince. She changed her accent, skin (thanks to a well-published skin consultant), style (thanks to a well-published stylist), lost weight etc.
Changed her accent? When you're an Australian and you start learning a second language which is to become, officially, your first and having studied it for 5 or so years, perhaps then you would better understand the reasons as to why her voice is relatively 'changed', but given you aren't and can't grasp the Australian lingo...

Her skin? I know, isn't it flawless. Like cream and not a visible pore in sight!

Style? Well, the dishevelled onion sack wasn't exactly the look they were going for I'd imagine.

Lost weight? Now where did that 'musn't lose weight if your a Crown Princess' commandment get too?!

Quote:
She's now a creation all the money can buy.
I attribute Mary's creation to her parents myself.

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The chin-in-the-air is well noted
And what a lovely chin it is!

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even by the painter of her portrait
Of course, her fault. And to which portrait do you refer? the one where HRH is looking directly 'at you', or the one where she is looking out the window?

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She also extended her hand in this very auty way that I just found very offputting.
'auty'? Perhaps you meant haughty?

Quote:
She would hold her hand out in a 45 degree angle down from her wrist
You even know the angle?.lol.

Quote:
It seems to show her superiority or reluctance to shake the other person's hand.
Or perhaps it's more reflective of a court portraiture style.

Quote:
She's caught on photos like that often before.
I've never once seen her reluctant to shake someones hand. Young, old, disabled...infact on two occasions whilst pregnant with Christian, Mary was not phased by the attempts of a young girl and a mentally disabled teenager to touch her stomach, Infact, she took their hands and placed them on her tummy.

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I personally don't think she's arrogant.
Come again?

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I do think she's very insecure.
Interesting...

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She's the most at ease interacting with children because she knew children were star-struch
Saying it how it "is" I see...in the 'know' are we?

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and wouldn't judge her poor Danish or lack of intellectual capacity.
And how is your Danish coming along? As for her intellectual capacity, that is very much a brazen insult about someone you do not know.

These are just my observations and I do not mean any offence by them
  #264  
Old 07-09-2007, 04:00 AM
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I don't see why the lost of weight or a regal look can be bad things... I prefer the elegance of Mary to the heavy make up or the boring look that some crown princesses show all the time.
  #265  
Old 07-09-2007, 04:30 AM
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Plus let me trow in my memories of the times hwen I was both young and vain: I had a book by Eileen Ford about how they changed young girls to "Ford models". I my youth that was something you aspired to become. Mary obviously follwed similar advices when she decided to model for Danmark. Good for her and perfect for Danmark.

As for her "poor Danish" - the native Danish speakers on this forum have the opinion that Mary is pretty good in speaking Danish. Who but they can pass judgment on that?
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  #266  
Old 07-09-2007, 04:46 AM
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Highpriestess, you are definitely entitled to your opinion of Mary - as we all are
As to the part about her changed looks; I cannot see how it can be helped. I would have done exactly the same - even finally shed my excess weight - if I were constantly photographed, followed, analysed and discussed.
Even though we as spectators may find it quite endearing that our CP fell in love with an ordinary, non-insect-thin girl who preferred a very casual dress-code, I doubt that we would continue to find it charming if our CPss' appearance didn't get more polished over time. The fact that Mary quickly realised that does not, IMO, reflect negatively on her personality. As I have often said before she is a natural at her 'job' - but by some that seems to be perceived as a negative trait - which I do not understand. I way I see the institution of royalty today, a great amount of professionalism is required and if Mary has that good for her - and not least good for us Danes. I don't see it as a necessarily positive quality trait if she had had to use X years stumbling and fumbling her way into her new life.
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  #267  
Old 07-09-2007, 05:11 AM
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Mary is a great ambassador for Denmark and being a spotlight or fashion person doesn't make her shallow or stupid. She does a lot of "serious" work too, indeed, has given birth to two kids in three years and seems to have a happy family life.

I prefer her active role much more to the role model of being in the husband's shadow all the time w/o any own activities and wearing boring and uninspired clothes - wearing designer wear doesn't make you more superficial and wearing old fashioned stuff doesn't make you more serious as a Crown Princess - so why not dressing up in the appropriate way Mary does.

And in terms of changing her personality - maybe apart from Maxima I don't see any CP who has NOT changed very much since marrying into a Royal House.
  #268  
Old 07-09-2007, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post





As for being shallow, this has a lot to do with all the "fashion icon" business. She did much more than just attending several fashion shows "in support of Danish fashion industry". She's actively hyped as a fashion icon by Danish, Australian press and perhaps, Danish court. She modeled foreigners' clothes and posted for fashion magazines. No other princesses in recent memory have ever done that. (Diana did the fashion shoots after her divorce. Plus, if I remember correctly, Diana wore her own clothes for the shoot.) When she acts more like a celebrity than a royal, it's not surprising that a lot of people have the impression of a shallow person. The fact that she was shown as "turing it on" for the camera but no interest in the event she's attending doesn't help.


Okay Mary does attend fashion shows but several isn't the word I'd use. Go back and read this thread there's information already posted about Mary and the Danish fashion industry. I don't think the hype surrounding Mary as a fashion icon is something that should be held against her. The press write alot of hyped up nonsense about pretty much everyone, not alot of it is creditable. (Well they do in Australia, I can't speak for Denmark) She posed for those fashion mazagines two years ago and hasn't done it since. Are people going to hold that against her forever?
  #269  
Old 07-09-2007, 10:44 PM
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One particular trait I noticed with Mary during the christening was how many times she easily and effortlessly laughed with others. Some times she seemed to catch eye contact with someone that was out of camera range and break open a big open smile and quiet laugh. She appeared a lot more open and unguarded than she appears in still photos. I love the regal, haughty look, don't get me wrong. I'm tired of princesses trying to act like my best friend but I was pleasantly surprised at how natural and unguarded Mary looked.

So I may have to re-vamp my opinion of Mary's personality.
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  #270  
Old 07-09-2007, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lise View Post
Okay Mary does attend fashion shows but several isn't the word I'd use....
I don't think the hype surrounding Mary as a fashion icon is something that should be held against her. The press write alot of hyped up nonsense about pretty much everyone, not alot of it is creditable.
Checked back Mary's calendar for these past three years. She's attending more than a couple fashion shows.

All the Danish press and Australian press would all of a sudden decided together to hype Mary as a "fashion icon" if she hasn't done those fashion shoots/modeling at the very beginning of her marriage or if the designer, stylist who work for her or even Danish court didn't hype her up as such? There's nothing wrong to dress designers' gear. It's the hype, with her cooperation/contribution, that was the problem. There's no way she's a fashion icon. Wearing designers' outfit right off the runway or ad doesn't make a fashion icon. Yes, the modeling and fashion shoots are two years ago. Have you ever heard that first impression registers with people?
  #271  
Old 07-09-2007, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
Yes, the modeling and fashion shoots are two years ago. Have you ever heard that first impression registers with people?
Well its certainly a very stubborn and not very sensible person who chooses to stick by their initial impression over a period of years even after things have changed. Mary can do nothing with these people; she's better off paying attention to the people who are willing to change their perceptions and opinions as the facts in front of them change.
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  #272  
Old 07-09-2007, 11:33 PM
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I'm not sure what point Madame Royale tried to make by responding my post line-by-line but missed my points completely.

Are you arguing Mary has NOT changed since she met Fred? Check back to her pictures from even the night she met Fred. Her skin wasn't snowy white without blemish. Her skin consultant who boasted some Hollywood stars as clinets told Australian magazine that Mary was his client. If she got that skin from her parents, she wouldn't need a skin consultant. Her stylist was well noted in many occasions. Mary went to Milan with her stylist for fashion shows.

BTW, I didn't criticize her for losing weight, or improving her skin by chemical, or improving her wardrobe, or changing her accent. I only said she made the most dramatic change since she met Fred, comparing with other princesses. And the dramatic change gave the impression of being fake.

I don't want to spend any more space on her accent. It's well discussed that she changed her accent. As for her Danish, how long ago was the speech she gave where Danes in attendance couldn't understand her? Nine months ago? She's been living in Denmark for what, five years now?

Intellectual capacity is different from intelligence. I can't tell whether she's intelligent or not. But from what she said, I could judge her intellectual capacity or curiosity. In interviews, she couldn't form a cohesive full sentences sometimes even in English. The logic of her reasoning and response was poor. She also never mentioned any literature she liked or showed any knowledge that made me think she's well read or a deep thinker. That's just the impression I have of her. As I said, she seems well suited for Fred. <shrug>
  #273  
Old 07-09-2007, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Well its certainly a very stubborn and not very sensible person who chooses to stick by their initial impression over a period of years even after things have changed.
Here I thought pesonal attacks on other posters are not allowed?

What "things have changed"? That she gave birth to an heir and a spare? That she's assigned a lot of patronage by the Danish court? That she donated part of her wardrobe budget or income to the Tsunami victims or other needy people?
  #274  
Old 07-09-2007, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
Here I thought pesonal attacks on other posters are not allowed?

What "things have changed"? That she gave birth to an heir and a spare? That she's assigned a lot of patronage by the Danish court? That she donated part of her wardrobe budget or income to the Tsunami victims or other needy people?
My apologies, highpriestess. I thought you were talking about other people not yourself. What has changed is that Mary is no longer doing fashion shoots for Vogue or candid interviews. These were reasons you gave for opinions about Mary.
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  #275  
Old 07-10-2007, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Regina View Post
I don't see why the lost of weight or a regal look can be bad things... I prefer the elegance of Mary to the heavy make up or the boring look that some crown princesses show all the time.
I don't see Queen Elizabeth looks at people with her chin in the air or extends her hand downward from wrist like she thinks the other person is below her or may dirty her hand. Mary's body language is "regal" only in her imagination.

As for makeup, if you can't see the heavy makeup on Mary, you may need a better monitor or enlarge her photos. She's the one who wears the most heavy makeup, comparing with other princesses.
  #276  
Old 07-10-2007, 12:24 AM
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Mary's body language is "regal" only in her imagination.
Ouch!.lol.

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As for makeup, if you can't see the heavy makeup on Mary, you may need a better monitor or enlarge her photos. She's the one who wears the most heavy makeup, comparing with other princesses.
The makeup Mary uses is so subtle that it's really quite difficult to tell where her natural colouration stops, and the makeup proceeds.

It's actually a product which highlights the indaviduals innate complexion.

Oh..I may just have a picture!

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...10000343dn.jpg

Excuse me, If it seems (to me) your interpretation of "heavy makeup" is questionable at best.

Good of you to respond though.
  #277  
Old 07-10-2007, 12:25 AM
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The Vogue shoots were a long time ago, they were merley an introduction of the princess to the public IMO. I think its time we built a bridge. I think that bridge has been made but some people cant see the bridge, maybe its too distant.

I dont remember Mary ever saying she was regal, thats what other people are saying, she never claimed that she was regal.
  #278  
Old 07-10-2007, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
Checked back Mary's calendar for these past three years. She's attending more than a couple fashion shows.
I feel a distinct tireness coming upon me - if this fashion thing is to be rehashed - yet again
Highpriestess, get ready for the upcoming CIFF in August; all your prejudices will be confirmed when you'll see Mary attend one of the shows and being officially greeted by one of the organisers behind it. And get ready for yet another round in the February version of CIFF when the same will take place again. Should you be curious as to what is actually going on, or should you harbour doubts whether Mary is there to enlarge her wardrobe (which by all accounts must beat any other CPss' wardrobe ten times) you could do some background study about the CIFF, what it does, what Mary does there, look at some statistical data about the importance of this industry etc. Sometimes reality is quite different from what is presented in (tabloid) magazines.

...some times I wish Denmark was still mainly relying on agricultural produce! No one - literally on one - would lift an eyebrow if Mary attended two semi-annual agricultural fairs in support of one of the country's top five money-making industries....
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  #279  
Old 07-10-2007, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by UserDane View Post
I feel a distinct tireness coming upon me - if this fashion thing is to be rehashed - yet again

snip

...some times I wish Denmark was still mainly relying on agricultural produce! No one - literally on one - would lift an eyebrow if Mary attended two semi-annual agricultural fairs in support of one of the country's top five money-making industries....
Well said, my honorable friend from Denmark!

Why is it that people all the time are bickering about things they think are fun or frivoulous? I hate fashion - for me to have to attend two fashion shows a year would be quite the fright. But give me an agricultural fair any day....

You know: Mary is young (well, rather young still), looking like a model (oh, those fashion shootings...), is rich and royal and a happy wife and mother. Yes, one could envy her if it wasn't for the many duties she has. I'm a happy wife and mother, my husband calls me the most beautiful woman of the world, we're not rich, but well-off and I don't have such duties but can spend my time here gossiping instead of publically bemoan the fate of others who are much more unfortunate than I am. Surely I'm much better off than Mary in comparison - and what does that opinion say over my character and personality?
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  #280  
Old 07-10-2007, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
I don't see Queen Elizabeth looks at people with her chin in the air or extends her hand downward from wrist like she thinks the other person is below her or may dirty her hand. Mary's body language is "regal" only in her imagination.
Well, I always thought Queen Elizabeth was a cold person with the public, but that's me. And yes, of course Mary has a regal look and that's why I like her. I wouldn't like to see Mary as a jolly good fellow, sorry. That's not my concept of monarchy.

Quote:
As for makeup, if you can't see the heavy makeup on Mary, you may need a better monitor or enlarge her photos. She's the one who wears the most heavy makeup, comparing with other princesses.
I agree, I really need to enlarge her photos because you're the first person I heard saying that Mary wears heavy make up!! What do you see? heavy blush? Heavy red lipstick? Tons of eye shadow? (???). For me, she's always very natural.
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