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  #281  
Old 09-22-2007, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
My point here is that it took 7 years before some came out and said that the visits weren´t going all that well.
Interesting observation about Philippe and Mathilde, Marengo. I'm wondering though how badly the visits were going if it took 7 years for someone to speak out.
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  #282  
Old 09-22-2007, 08:14 PM
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I believe the critisism started after the economic mission to South Africa. In March 2006 articles appeared in the press about this mission, the Prince was to stiff, didn´t communicate well, was lazy, not prepared and not interested. he also had the same/ a simular speech at different Economical Missions.

Now we have to note that the press and some Flemish parties have an intrest in portraying this way. And when one has a certain label (in this case shy/clumsy/stiff), it is very difficult to get rid of it.

I actually think that usually these complaints won´t really reach the press as companies/ businessmen will be reluctant to say anything negative or even critical about their royals in public, as most customers won´t appreciate it. But considering Belgiums state I think that some were tempted to speak out.

--
To Ricarda: I don´t think I was comparing apples and oranges perse. My point was that I think it is too ´easy´ to say that a visit is a succes because clothes look nice etc. Pictures don´t tell the entire story. I know that the role of heads of state is different, but I followed the same line of reasoning that seems to be the case in some posts here and hence I came to the conclusion that many state visits would be unsuccesfull with these criteria. In the end I think we agree, so...

Now I am glad you came with some points that do indicate a positive result of the visit. And I am glad to know something the content of the interview as I wasn´t able to find what the couple said, just what they wore (but this thread has a lot of pages so maybe I missed it). Mary seems realistic about the visit, which I like.
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  #283  
Old 09-22-2007, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
My point was that I think it is too ´easy´ to say that a visit is a succes because clothes look nice etc. Pictures don´t tell the entire story. I know that the role of heads of state is different, but I followed the same line of reasoning that seems to be the case in some posts here and hence I came to the conclusion that many state visits would be unsuccesfull with these criteria. In the end I think we agree, so...
Yes, we agree. But I have a different feeling, most posters did just comment on the outfits and representativeness of the couple and not the economic success of their trip, except those posters who very easily and eagerly said that the visit wasn't a success because it didn't make headlines in American press.

Pictures don't tell the whole story and they actually can be deceiving (just think of the happy couple-pictures of Joachim and Alexandra 1 year before their divorce was announced) but as a matter of fact what most of us do on this board is looking at pictures and commenting on how the royals look on these pictures and what we feel.
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  #284  
Old 09-22-2007, 11:43 PM
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Look Mary and Frederick looked wonderful and acted beautifully. For the most part that is the only reasons Americans look at any royal visitor. They are not politicians, they cannot make "big deals". What did they wear. What were the "jewels" like. Nobody really cares whether they come or not. As one of the posters said, outside of a city they were visiting Charles and Camilla got no press, nor did most care. The queen is an insititution unto herself and would garner more interest, but vast crowds of people are not the case. This is a lovely, young couple who were sent to do a job, they seem to execute very well.
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  #285  
Old 09-23-2007, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Look Mary and Frederick looked wonderful and acted beautifully. For the most part that is the only reasons Americans look at any royal visitor. They are not politicians, they cannot make "big deals". What did they wear. What were the "jewels" like. Nobody really cares whether they come or not. As one of the posters said, outside of a city they were visiting Charles and Camilla got no press, nor did most care. The queen is an insititution unto herself and would garner more interest, but vast crowds of people are not the case. This is a lovely, young couple who were sent to do a job, they seem to execute very well.
You may be right. BUt we live in the 21st century. IMO royalty needs to be more than nice dresses, tiaras and smiling to the cameras.
To sum this NYC trip up: the dresses were nice , they smiled on different occasions and knew how to behave appropriate.
Congratulations!
Was it a success in an economic way or did it help to promote Denmark, Danish design and fashion to a wider audience or to the majority of US citizens?
I leave it to everyone on this board to give an answer.
But sometimes I feel a bit sorry that a nice appearance is all that people are interested in. Beautiful looks can sometimes be very manipulative ....
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  #286  
Old 09-23-2007, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
They were still singeled out as many more would have liked to joine. But of cause you know a lot bette how thing funktion i Denmark then I do - you living i Tunisia.
Tilmeldings skema_CN_210307.indd

A cached link with the application forms + fees + conditions for joining the Creative Nation event recently in New York. The participants applied to join, they were not singled out.
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  #287  
Old 09-23-2007, 03:55 AM
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Now that Mary's hair has grown longer she looks much better and prettier. I didn't like her hair cut at all.
She was stunning at the Gala, I didn't like the purple dress she wore last year.
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  #288  
Old 09-23-2007, 04:05 AM
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Speaking of NYC,danish design and beauty: if you really want to see a beautiful woman in NYC that is into danish design and fashion you have to go to Helena Christensens shop " Butik" . I think that it would have been a great idea to let Mary visit Helena in her shop, because the model is a great ambassador for danish fashion worldwide.That would of course have created lots of PR....

But..oops: in this case Mary would not have been the most beautiful woman in the room. I guess thats why it did not happen..:-))
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  #289  
Old 09-23-2007, 06:29 AM
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I think it´s a nice change to look beyond the styling aspect of this trip. And I think it´s nice to broaden the horizon and look how things can be done too. I think one can compare this trip with others that have been done before by CP Philippe or CP Haakon for example as they are in the same position and do similar trips (not sure about Felipe&Letizia or Victoria and Willem Alexander and Maxima don´t focus on economy).

One could look at the recent trip of Philippe and Mathilde to China for example. In Hong Kong a charity gala was organized with tickets up to 1.900 $ per seat. And the people who gathered at the ball room of the Four Seasons Hotel belonged to the top ten of the Hong Kong society (e.g Stanley Ho who was seated next to Mathilde) respectively to the Belgian business delegation and even the British consul general came along. So there actually was the chance for networking and promoting Belgian products (food, diamonds, jewellery, fashion which have been on display that evening) to potential clients. Philippe also met with mayors, trade ministers, governors etc. to open doors for “his” businessmen. There have been workshops with both Chinese and Belgian participants and work visit to Belgian plants in China. This promotion trips are quite controversial in Belgium and the trip did not get much attention here (and there is nothing wrong about this), but it sure had an impact on the Belgian-Chinese business cooperation and it was reported in several Chinese newspapers etc.

Or look at Haakons and Mette-Marit´s trip to India or South Korea lately. They also met with key players in the respective countries and opened doors for their fellow citizens.

I don´t know but to me this New York promotion trip was not so convincing. Why did Frederik show up at the New York Coast Guard for example? And why didn´t he meet political or economic keyplayers in New York? Why did they not use the gala as opportunity to bring important investors together with Danish businessmen? Frederik did visit Arla and so on and was surrounded by Danish journalists, but what does this mean for the market chances of Danish products in New York? Just my three cents to add to an open discussion, which does not only focus on fashion and style.
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  #290  
Old 09-23-2007, 06:39 AM
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What a storm in a teacup is raising here. Some people bad-mouthing a CP couple and CP Mary in particular for doing a good job representing their country abroad without any self-interest, politically or financially, and promoting their country's export?{edited for consistency- Empress}, and I don't get this negative attitude at all.
Following the same strange logic in asking for concrete results of these visits, one could abolish any state visit by every Head of State, President or King, as well. I haven't heard much about explosive immediate 'results' in this case either. For example, why should the German President pay a state visit to the Netherlands next month? Relations between the two countries are very good these days, no new wheels & deals will be set in motion during that visit, so Queen Bea should leave her tiara in the vault, the President should stay at home, goodwill is a highly unnecessary thing, on top of it it costs the taxpayers money... let's call it off already!
Royal representatives being above self-serving political and economical interests make them ideal ambassadors of their country. Visits like this one are not about creating a mass media hype or taking over another country or city by storm but about visibility, appearances, doing their bit for charity if it fits the agenda, leaving a personal impact on the representatives the Royals meet and about creating & adding to a positive image of their country both in the place they visit and for their own people at home. What's so bad about that, may I ask???
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  #291  
Old 09-23-2007, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiwaxia View Post
Tilmeldings skema_CN_210307.indd

A cached link with the application forms + fees + conditions for joining the Creative Nation event recently in New York. The participants applied to join, they were not singled out.
They were still singeled out - hence the fee.
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  #292  
Old 09-23-2007, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
They were still singeled out - hence the fee.
The link invalidates that, but it's just fine if you want to subscribe to that hypothesis.
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  #293  
Old 09-23-2007, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by johann View Post
And why didn´t he meet political or economic keyplayers in New York? Why did they not use the gala as opportunity to bring important investors together with Danish businessmen? Frederik did visit Arla and so on and was surrounded by Danish journalists, but what does this mean for the market chances of Danish products in New York? Just my three cents to add to an open discussion, which does not only focus on fashion and style.
I think it is way to early yet to estimate whether this visit was success or not - financially. You ask about the market chances of Danish products in New York; according to the official program the sustainable energy delegation held several meetings with the governor of Pennsylvania and with the Department of Energy and U.S. energy sector key players. That could IMO prove hugely important for a very very important sector of Danish industry; also Frederik participated in events that involved Lundbeck - the pharmaceutical company - that focused on ways of treating depressions. Moreover, Frederik attended parts of the "Working Together Towards Sustainability" conference. What the Coast Guard event was aimed at remains to be seen; exchange of views, material etc. between two countries which both have coast guards perhaps?

I think the immediate effects within certain areas involved in the Creative Nation project may be difficult to measure; as it says in the program the project is also a 'showcase' for DK - involving painters amongst others. But I suppose the companies and industries that have worked out the Creative Nation approach feel that it is a good mixture.
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  #294  
Old 09-23-2007, 07:11 AM
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i was out for a few days so i missed this trip :( thanks for the pictures.

{edited for consistency- Empress} all crown princes do these trips, they are part of their role. if the trips are important to danish economy or not, we'll have to wait and see. but do you want to see them working or not? if they are in vacations they are lazy; if they travel to usa to represent denmark the best they can they are just having fun; if mary dresses elegant cloth oh she's such a great sinner; etc etc... what kind of menthality is that? give her a break! how is she annoying you so much like that?

santacruz, i don't know what kind of bad feelings you have against princess mary. maybe she irritates you because she's not enough professional or because she cares too much about her cloth... or maybe because she's attractive? :) reading your posts i can see you don't blame any other crown princess. as far as i know maxima wears very very expensive cloth too (maybe even more expensive than mary). letizia doesn't talk anywhere; mette marit is almost invisible, but all your hate goes to mary donaldson. that's very sad i must say. not because you don't like her (who cares?) but because your words are quite rude and offensive to those who like mary.
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  #295  
Old 09-23-2007, 07:34 AM
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Dear posters,

perhaps it is too much to ask, but it might be constructive if we all stay away from personal attacks and respect each others differences of opinion. Also, it might be advisable for some not to take everything as an offence. When one asks if the trip was succesfull that doesn´t necessairily mean that they are ´bashing´ Mary. Having constructive reasons for questioning if the succes is as ´perfect´ as some claim is not ´badmouthing´, it just means one has a mind of his/her own, which is highly recomendable. Likewize it would be nice if the critisism on Frederik, Mary and their trip will have valid arguments/facts and is not based on (negative) assumptions about their character.

If one takes offence from a post, as it is using improper language, personal attacks or other things which might cause offence, it is NOT an excuse to reply in a simular way. You are all well aware those posts should be reported to one of the Danish Moderators and they will deal with it. In the mean time, try to discuss the topic in an adult way. And I repeat that that means that one uses structured arguments to prove somebody wrong. If you can not use those, please refrain from childish and petty remarks and don´t reply at all.

Thank you very much
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  #296  
Old 09-23-2007, 08:39 AM
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There is a gallery of nice pics on Hola.
Galerías de imágenes
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  #297  
Old 09-23-2007, 09:24 AM
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There is a gallery of nice pics on Hola.
Galerías de imágenes
Thanks Giov. I really like Mary's outfit in these pictures. The skirt suits her very well. At the risk of everyone here pronouncing me crazy, just one little question. Is it just me, or does Federico look a lot like Hugh Grant in that second picture with the sunglasses on? He reminds me of the actor on quite some occassions, not that this is a bad thing of course, but still.
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  #298  
Old 09-23-2007, 09:31 AM
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With all due respect, no one wants to come to this thread and conduct him or herself badly. We take offense in some posters’ comments, not because we don’t value differences of opinions or diverse ideas (I can tell you personally, I not only value such practice, I find it necessary). This is how I learn to be tolerant of all people. No, what we are reacting to is this “you're so stupid you only care about tiaras and dresses, in other words, vanity”.

The undertone of such posts is always cutting. For example, “go read my post again so you may understand”, clearly implying we lack understanding. And that’s what people react to. They clearly are not interested in sharing ideas or even debate. Their posts is always full of emotional tactic to “WIN” an argument while antagonizing other posters, often with subtle (often not) insults like the ones above. If we are mostly complementary to the crown couple, by all means challenge us, but what I’ve seen on this thread is the opposite.

Finally, when I logged on to this board, even if I don’t post, I enjoy myself for the following reasons: Lesson #1. We have some excellent writers here that I learn from whenever I visit. Lesson #2. We have some great historical perspectives. And lesson #3. Diverse ideas and perspectives, which makes this forum a melting pot. I wrote this post in an effort to clear up this idea that we can’t behave ourselves. I meant it in the utmost respect.
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  #299  
Old 09-23-2007, 09:31 AM
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Thanks Giov. I really like Mary's outfit in these pictures. The skirt suits her very well. At the risk of everyone here pronouncing me crazy, just one little question. Is it just me, or does Federico look a lot like Hugh Grant in that second picture with the sunglasses on? He reminds me of the actor on quite some occassions, not that this is a bad thing of course, but still.
I certainly won't call you crazy I think you he does resembles him a bit.
I once saw a picture of his granddad, king Frederik IX, from his younger days - or around the time he married Ingrid - and I thought he looked so much like Cary Grant in that particular picture! Not sure any one else saw that though
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  #300  
Old 09-23-2007, 10:37 AM
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I have reopened this thread after cleaning up the train wreck that some posters thought was fun. LET ME TELL YOU - I DO NOT FIND IT FUN!

The moderators come here for the same reason many of you do - to learn and enjoy. We can not do that when we are continually having to clean up messes like this thread. It would be nice if our members could behave like adults.

The next time this thread derails, I will close it permanently.

In the meantime - anyone who decides that a personal attack is an appropriate way of communication will quickly find themselves in deep water.

As for attacking the royals, check out my signature and go read the rules! We are all entitled to our opinon, positive, or negative. But those of you with a negative opinion might do well to phrase it in a way that is not offensive. And those of you with a positive opinion might do well to take a breath before reading attacks into a negative opinion.

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