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  #1101  
Old 03-08-2011, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilla View Post
You are right. In Danish the ancient name Hans is short for Johannes. Hans : Navnets Betydning og Oprindelse | baby-navne.dk

In English the name John is short for Johannes. John : Navnets Betydning og Oprindelse | baby-navne.dk

Hans is not a Danish translation of the English name John but both names do originate from the same name.



In German Johan is short for Johannes Johan : Navnets Betydning og Oprindelse | baby-navne.dk. When used in Denmark it is due to theft from the Germans not the English.

The name John is used in Denmark as well and that is due to theft from the English

I'm sorry but in English John is short for Johannes? No. John in English, etymologically is not short for anything in English. Some people mistake it for being short for Johnathan but it isn't. Other english variations exist like Shawn, Jack, Ian and Ewan. The Danish variation would be Johan or Johan's nickname Hans. Johannes is a German variation of the English John not what John is short for in English.

Again with Danish trees, like Isabella, it is having the English translation. John of Denmark is listed as either John or Hans on the tree.
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  #1102  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissaadrian View Post
I'm sorry but in English John is short for Johannes? No. John in English, etymologically is not short for anything in English. Some people mistake it for being short for Johnathan but it isn't. Other english variations exist like Shawn, Jack, Ian and Ewan. The Danish variation would be Johan or Johan's nickname Hans. Johannes is a German variation of the English John not what John is short for in English.
Can you please provide some sources for your claims?

As for the names for the twins I am sure whatever names the CP couple decide on they will be perfect - as long as they don't settle on:

Prince Øjvin Åge Ægir Øysten and Princess Æbba Jørgina Ædelfrid Åse.
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  #1103  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:19 PM
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for den Lillepig:
Catharina Mary Helene Ingeborg
Caroline Lovisa Helene Mary
Alexandra Helene Elisabeth Mary

for den Lilledreng:
Alexander Johan William Frederik
Andre Peter Thomas William
  #1104  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilla

Can you please provide some sources for your claims?

As for the names for the twins I am sure whatever names the CP couple decide on they will be perfect - as long as they don't settle on:

Prince Øjvin Åge Ægir Øysten and Princess Æbba Jørgina Ædelfrid Åse.
I can't speak for other posters sources but in America I've always understood John to not be short for anything. Jon is short for Jonathan and I've never know anyone to use the name Johannes .... Baby name books at least do not have Johannes as orgin for John that I've seen....seems to be something known here but can't speak for other English world- sometimes things are just known with needing to source

Did more research- http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/John
Johanne is a variate form on John, but John is no short for it. Thus the baby could have Johanne in his name as a form of John but it's not because it's a longer version of the name (in English) :)
  #1105  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:19 PM
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Johann Franz Ludvig Albert
  #1106  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissaadrian View Post
I'm sorry but in English John is short for Johannes? No. John in English, etymologically is not short for anything in English. Some people mistake it for being short for Johnathan but it isn't. Other english variations exist like Shawn, Jack, Ian and Ewan. The Danish variation would be Johan or Johan's nickname Hans. Johannes is a German variation of the English John not what John is short for in English.
You are right in saying John has never been short for anything in English. John and Johannes both come from the Latin Ioannes. See here: Behind the Name: Meaning, Origin and History of the Name John (that website is probably the most reliable name etymology website on the internet).

Jack is an English diminutive form, Ian is the Scottish form, and Seán is the Irish form of John (Shawn is the Anglicized form of Seán). Ewan is actually not related to John, although it sounds like Ioan, the Welsh form of John.

If you couldn't tell, name etymology and usage is my pet hobby.
  #1107  
Old 03-08-2011, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
I can't speak for other posters sources but in America I've always understood John to not be short for anything. Jon is short for Jonathan and I've never know anyone to use the name Johannes .... Baby name books at least do not have Johannes as orgin for John that I've seen....seems to be something known here but can't speak for other English world- sometimes things are just known with needing to source

Did more research- John | meaning of John | name John
Johanne is a variate form on John, but John is no short for it. Thus the baby could have Johanne in his name as a form of John but it's not because it's a longer version of the name (in English) :)

Thanks for your answer MRSJ

According to this link, http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/John John is of Hebrew origin and Biblical it is the name of the longest-lived of the 12 apostles who was especially loved by Christ.

According to this link http://www.ancestry.com/facts/John-name-meaning.ashx the personal name was adopted into Latin (via Greek) as Johannes, and has enjoyed enormous popularity in Europe throughout the Christian era, being given in honor of St. John the Baptist, precursor of Christ, and of St. John the Evangelist, author of the fourth gospel, as well as others of the nearly one thousand other Christian saints of the name. Some of the principal forms of the personal name in other European languages are Welsh Ieuan, Evan, Siôn, and Ioan; Scottish Ia(i)n; Irish Séan; German Johann, Johannes, Hans; Dutch.

In Danish the original form derived from Latin is still in use and very popular. And as I have written in a former post the Danish name Hans is an ancient Danish name that is short for Johannes. It is not a nickname for the German short form of Johannes known as Johan and there is no connection whatsoever to the English name John - only the Hebrew, Greek and then Latin origin. As for the Dutch using the name Hans it comes as no surprise. There are many similarities between the Dutch and Danish languages.

By the way: In English the apostle known as John the Baptist, is in Danish known as Johannes Døberen and in German he is known as Johannes der Täufer.

If the little Prince ends up beeing named Hans or Johannes I will for ever remember this post when watching af photo with him portrayed



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Kathleen View Post
You are right in saying John has never been short for anything in English. John and Johannes both come from the Latin Ioannes.
That is where I enden up as well. Thanks for your research Lady Kathleen and the link provided

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
Johanne is a variate form on John, but John is no short for it. Thus the baby could have Johanne in his name as a form of John but it's not because it's a longer version of the name (in English) :)
That makes sense only one critical point though: In Danish Johanne is a female name
  #1108  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilla

That makes sense only one critical point: In Danish Johanne is a female name
Oops! Sorry about that, :) so the little princess can have that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Kathleen

You are right in saying John has never been short for anything in English. John and Johannes both come from the Latin Ioannes. See here: Behind the Name: Meaning, Origin and History of the Name John (that website is probably the most reliable name etymology website on the internet).

Jack is an English diminutive form, Ian is the Scottish form, and Seán is the Irish form of John (Shawn is the Anglicized form of Seán). Ewan is actually not related to John, although it sounds like Ioan, the Welsh form of John.

If you couldn't tell, name etymology and usage is my pet hobby.
Awesome research! Thanks
  #1109  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
Oops! Sorry about that, :) so the little princess can have that!
Yes. Great idea. Princess Johanne
  #1110  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:46 PM
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I would love them to use the masculine/feminine versions of name already in the family...for example:

Marius - male form of Mary
Benedict - male form of Benedikte, would love a Prince Ben
Frederikke - female version of Frederik
Johanna - female version of John

36 days to go!
  #1111  
Old 03-08-2011, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Kathleen View Post
You are right in saying John has never been short for anything in English. John and Johannes both come from the Latin Ioannes. See here: Behind the Name: Meaning, Origin and History of the Name John (that website is probably the most reliable name etymology website on the internet).

Jack is an English diminutive form, Ian is the Scottish form, and Seán is the Irish form of John (Shawn is the Anglicized form of Seán). Ewan is actually not related to John, although it sounds like Ioan, the Welsh form of John.

If you couldn't tell, name etymology and usage is my pet hobby.
I write fanfic, and I always give my characters who have a baby, a baby name with meaning. My reviewers always like the little explanation of what the name means and why I chose it. Behind the names is actually bookmarked on my computer, I use it all the time, that and baby names.com. And you're right, Jack is a diminutive not a variation.

I agree with Anna, I love the idea of switching female/male. I have a feeling though the little boy will be Friedrick and little girl Mary for middle names but can hope.

But I think Bendt is the Danish masculine form of Benedikte though.
  #1112  
Old 03-08-2011, 09:45 PM
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I know no matter what I select or guess, it will be wrong, the only thing I am certain of is I am glad this is the only royal family that makes us wait for 3 months, I can't wait til we see those beautiful little children and finally find out their names.
Does anyone know, and I hope I am not being redundant, but why do they wait so long? Was it because there was such a high moralitry rate for infants? Not trying to be morbid, just interested. Thanks
  #1113  
Old 03-08-2011, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebafan81 View Post
I know no matter what I select or guess, it will be wrong, the only thing I am certain of is I am glad this is the only royal family that makes us wait for 3 months, I can't wait til we see those beautiful little children and finally find out their names.
Does anyone know, and I hope I am not being redundant, but why do they wait so long? Was it because there was such a high moralitry rate for infants? Not trying to be morbid, just interested. Thanks
It has nothing to do with three months but the Christening. Some other royal children we've had to wait on. Louise Wessex was quite a wait, not this long but still.

It simply old tradition. The priest or in this case bishop asks the parents when they bring their child for baptism, what name they are to be called. The Danes just wait until this question to reveal it.
  #1114  
Old 03-09-2011, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissaadrian View Post
It has nothing to do with three months but the Christening. Some other royal children we've had to wait on. Louise Wessex was quite a wait, not this long but still.

It simply old tradition. The priest or in this case bishop asks the parents when they bring their child for baptism, what name they are to be called. The Danes just wait until this question to reveal it.
Thanks for your answer!
  #1115  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNotherThing View Post
I would love them to use the masculine/feminine versions of name already in the family...for example:

Marius - male form of Mary
Benedict - male form of Benedikte, would love a Prince Ben
Frederikke - female version of Frederik
Johanna - female version of John

36 days to go!
i know how to say Ben in english, but in danish ben means leg. poor boy ;-)
  #1116  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebafan81 View Post
Does anyone know, and I hope I am not being redundant, but why do they wait so long? Was it because there was such a high moralitry rate for infants? Not trying to be morbid, just interested. Thanks
No, children were baptized very shortly after the birth in the old days, because of the high infant mortality rate.
It was actually the christening that was considered the most important thing, not the birth. The child's salvation or affilliation with the Christian faith had top priority. - Should the child die anyway later on, it least its soul would be safe.

The tradition about not mentioning the name of a child before the christening is also very old. That was to avoid the Devil luring the child to him by calling out the name of the child, before the child had been baptized.
  #1117  
Old 03-09-2011, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No, children were baptized very shortly after the birth in the old days, because of the high infant mortality rate.
It was actually the christening that was considered the most important thing, not the birth. The child's salvation or affilliation with the Christian faith had top priority. - Should the child die anyway later on, it least its soul would be safe.

The tradition about not mentioning the name of a child before the christening is also very old. That was to avoid the Devil luring the child to him by calling out the name of the child, before the child had been baptized.
Back in the days of Shakespeare and such there were often not birth records, just baptism. Shakespeare's birthday is a guess, because they have record of his baptism, and it was usually about three days after the birth. It is one thing back then to wait three days to announce the baby's name, but now a days when it is often months for a christening, not so practical. I think I was almost a year, old for a catholic baby. Names would have been registered with baptism, so that would be the official first records centuries ago.
  #1118  
Old 03-09-2011, 01:37 PM
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Is it tradition in Denmark or only in the Danish Royal Family not to name the children until the christening?

I'm hoping for Prince Oscar and Princess Charlotte.
Both classic names that are in fashion, both can be found in the DRF history and the Danish and English pronounciation is not too different
  #1119  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm View Post
Is it tradition in Denmark or only in the Danish Royal Family not to name the children until the christening?
It is not only a tradition in the DRF. My brothers and sisters didn't decide on the names for their children until a few weeks or days before the christenings. My sister once said that she and her husband had to get to know the babys before it was possible to pick the right names. Meanwhile they used cute nicknames. The names they had in mind before the boys were born just didn't fit to their little personalities. All of them ended up with compleatly different names.

If this is the case in all Danish families I don't know but I am sure it is quit common in Denmark.

And thanks Muhler for telling about the history behind the tradition (post 1116).
  #1120  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:15 PM
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It isn´t that common in Denmark to keep the name a secret until the christening :)
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