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  #121  
Old 09-02-2006, 01:49 PM
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The people you quoted are just todays celebrities. Speak to an australian business executive or diplomat and you will hear that they have toned down the australian part of their accent considerable.

"Neither is American"

You are absolutely right. The most snobbish upper class accent is the New England - Boston accent - unless you are Texan.

After 35 years here I still have a Swedish accent - and will never strive to loose it. My guess would be that Mary will never completely loose her Australian accent. Which would quite ok - she is after all Australian by birth. That will never change no matter where she now resides.
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  #122  
Old 09-02-2006, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan
"Neither is American"

You are absolutely right. The most snobbish upper class accent is the New England - Boston accent - unless you are Texan.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. People that live in that part of the country talk like that whether they're rich or poor. That accent is not relegated to just the Kennedys. My father is from Boston and his entire family still live there, and when we go to visit them, you'll hear all manner of New England/Boston accents and I assure you; we don't travel in elite circles.
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  #123  
Old 09-02-2006, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. People that live in that part of the country talk like that whether they're rich or poor. That accent is not relegated to just the Kennedys. My father is from Boston and his entire family still live there, and when we go to visit them, you'll hear all manner of New England/Boston accents and I assure you; we don't travel in elite circles.
Yes, it's interesting that there are areas which "accent" became a synonym for "posh" talking. Here in Germany it's the area around Hannover - don't know why that is but their "dialect" is purest "formal German".... But still, that's because of the way their talking sounds: of course you have to have a good syntax and use the right words to be accepted as "posh" - LOL... Just a joke!
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  #124  
Old 09-02-2006, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan
"Neither is American"

You are absolutely right. The most snobbish upper class accent is the New England - Boston accent - unless you are Texan.

After 35 years here I still have a Swedish accent - and will never strive to loose it. My guess would be that Mary will never completely loose her Australian accent. Which would quite ok - she is after all Australian by birth. That will never change no matter where she now resides.
I'm glade you didn't think me being rude

I agree. Mary will never totally loose her Australian enunciation and like you, I think that perfectly normal.
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  #125  
Old 09-02-2006, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Yes, it's interesting that there are areas which "accent" became a synonym for "posh" talking. Here in Germany it's the area around Hannover - don't know why that is but their "dialect" is purest "formal German".... But still, that's because of the way their talking sounds: of course you have to have a good syntax and use the right words to be accepted as "posh" - LOL... Just a joke!

I know a lot of people who have that so-called "posh" Boston accent, and their grammar and syntax is deplorable. I'm from Chicago, but I live in Georgia....I've had people tell me my accent is more sophisticated than the Southern one. I just tell them they're full of crap.
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  #126  
Old 09-02-2006, 11:41 PM
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WOW, you must have spent hours coming up with all that, unlike Crown Princess Mary who has to answer questions quite off the cuff. She possibly doesn't want to answer the questions or doesn't know the answer to some of the questions, hence the long --------------- pauses.
I obviously have more important things in my life to think about, I know CP Mary's accent isn't one of them, but, it was an interesting---------------read.
Thanks, but you know what - we all come here to discuss Mary for different reasons. I personally find the topic of her accent extremely interesting as opposed to others who prefer to discuss her wardrobe, holiday destinations etc.

I’m sure we all have more important things in life to do than analyse the minute of her life yet we all still come here and comment on these things, regardless.

Yes she does have to answer questions off the cuff but shouldn’t her ‘training’ (of whatever nature) have given her the skills to deal with this. Just as athletes and politicians are trained to deal with the media and public situations generally.

And even if she has to think about the response to a question it doesn’t mean the other half of her answer should not agree grammatically with the first half. Or she could always choose not to respond to certain questions – as happened when she and Christian left the hospital and during the engagement interviews.

Oh and in regards to the long post – I preferred to include examples of what I was discussing rather than be accused (or guilty) of plonking down my own opinion without having a factual basis to support my argument. And since you were wondering it took me no longer than the time to watch the documentaries.

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My friends from Australia were shocked when they heard her speak. They said her accent sounded fake as if she was trying to sound more like an upper class Englishwoman rather than an upper class Australian. They couldn't figure out why she was faking her accent.
Well their experience certainly mimics mine.

Quote:
Personally, I think she was choosing her words carefully so the people of Denmark could understand her clearly hence the odd sentence structure, choice of words, and overtly long pauses in her sentences.

These things though do no contribute to a good understanding of her meaning for someone with English as a second, third language. As I stated before – the pauses and sentence structure make the meaning unclear for native speakers of the language. In my experience with foreign languages (French, Korean) what really matters is clear pronunciation and a consistent/even patter of word delivery.

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To my American ears, Mary's accent sounds like a combination of upper-class British with Scandinavian. In other words, pretty much what I would expect from an Australian-born female who is the future queen of Denmark.
Yes but she was a middle class Australian (for 30 years) who has become and is learning/speaks Danish.

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Mary's speech, whilst notably Australian to the ear was never one of great projection or forcefulness. It was actually quite subtle, but, remained clear. Mary did not share her siblings rural enunciation and having studied Commerce and Law and then gaining employment within the advertising and marketing industries, its no surprise she maintained a well rounded, well executed manner of speaking. In that environment and line of work, you must.


Of course you are right she may never have had a broad accent exactly like her siblings and as I noted:

Quote:
If she has had elocution lessons as well as Danish lessons fine - being able to be understood and speaking clearly can only be a benefit in her situation.
However the only people in Australia who her current accent remotely resembles –are all the British ex-pats.

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My guess would be that Mary will never completely loose her Australian accent. Which would quite ok - she is after all Australian by birth. That will never change no matter where she now resides.
But she has – that is what we are discussing. The lack of Australian accent in her current speech patterns.
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  #127  
Old 09-03-2006, 12:11 AM
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She does have an australian accent in the videos posted on these royal boards.
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  #128  
Old 09-03-2006, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan
The people you quoted are just todays celebrities. Speak to an australian business executive or diplomat and you will hear that they have toned down the australian part of their accent considerable.
grevinnan- my friends and I talk like those people, and we are not diplomats or business executives, we are just university students.
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  #129  
Old 09-03-2006, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Quality Blonde


However the only people in Australia who her current accent remotely resembles –are all the British ex-pats.



Has anybody ever heard her father speak? What kind of accent does he have? After all he was born a Scot and taught in Oxford during the time of Mary's blooming friendship with Frederick (around 2001/2002). Could it be that he acquired the "Oxford"-tongue due to living and working there and she took over from him a bit?
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  #130  
Old 09-03-2006, 05:03 AM
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She does have an australian accent in the videos posted on these royal boards.
Could you please point me in the right direction as to where these are located (and which in particular you mean). I have done a search and been through this forum but no thread title jumped out at me.

Thank you in advance
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  #131  
Old 09-03-2006, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Quality Blonde
Could you please point me in the right direction as to where these are located (and which in particular you mean). I have done a search and been through this forum but no thread title jumped out at me.

Thank you in advance
There are videos in which Mary speaks English on www.youtube.com - just type in "Mary Donaldson" and you'll see a series of short parts of a documentary.
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  #132  
Old 09-03-2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan
The people you quoted are just todays celebrities. Speak to an australian business executive or diplomat and you will hear that they have toned down the australian part of their accent considerable.
I don't wish to be rude here, and I'm sorry to go off topic, but unless you live in Australia and are surrounded by Australian accents every day, I don't see how you can really comment on how Australian business executives speak or in fact how the majority of Australians speak. I have come across a lot of business executives, as well as prominent lawyers, QCs and doctors (and any other professional you would like to include) and I have not heard one of them "toning down" their accent, so I don't know where you got that information from.

Sure, if you compare a 'normal' Australian accent with Steve Irwin's, it will sound 'toned down'. The large majorities of Australians do not sound like the stereotypical representation of Australians. I find it cringe-worthy that so many Australian actors have to put on fake Aussie accents in movies just to get recognised. Apparently their accents aren't 'Australian enough'. Australian quoted some actors who don't have very prominent accents. Take Cate Blanchett for example. Actor or not, she sounds like your average female Australian.

And in regards to your comment: "Australian english is not considered very refined outside of Australia". Maybe you personally do not find it a very refined accent - you don't have to - but there are a lot of us on this forum, including me, who come from Australia and who have Australian accents. To basically call our way of speaking unrefined is more than a little offensive.
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  #133  
Old 09-03-2006, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Danielle
I don't wish to be rude here, and I'm sorry to go off topic, but unless you live in Australia and are surrounded by Australian accents every day, I don't see how you can really comment on how Australian business executives speak or in fact how the majority of Australians speak. I have come across a lot of business executives, as well as prominent lawyers, QCs and doctors (and any other professional you would like to include) and I have not heard one of them "toning down" their accent, so I don't know where you got that information from.

Sure, if you compare a 'normal' Australian accent with Steve Irwin's, it will sound 'toned down'. The large majorities of Australians do not sound like the stereotypical representation of Australians. I find it cringe-worthy that so many Australian actors have to put on fake Aussie accents in movies just to get recognised. Apparently their accents aren't 'Australian enough'. Australian quoted some actors who don't have very prominent accents. Take Cate Blanchett for example. Actor or not, she sounds like your average female Australian.

And in regards to your comment: "Australian english is not considered very refined outside of Australia". Maybe you personally do not find it a very refined accent - you don't have to - but there are a lot of us on this forum, including me, who come from Australia and who have Australian accents. To basically call our way of speaking unrefined is more than a little offensive.
Well said Danielle
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  #134  
Old 09-03-2006, 11:14 AM
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Danielle, I couldn't agree more. It is what I have been trying to say all along.
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  #135  
Old 09-03-2006, 11:42 AM
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However the only people in Australia who her current accent remotely resembles –are all the British ex-pats.
I disagree. My mother was born here and she speaks in a manner that is quite similar to the Crown Princess. My mother is no British ex-pat, infact, my mother is the daughter of a French mother and father so I do believe that theory to be quite unsubstantial in its claims.

Quote:
But she has – that is what we are discussing. The lack of Australian accent in her current speech patterns.
Ok, I will mention this now. During the Crown Princely tour last year, I was invited to two functions (one in Sydney, the other in Melbourne) where I conversed directly with the Crown Princely couple. I engaged Frederik & Mary in a delightful conversation that lasted no less than 3-4 minutes in Sydeny and Mary in Melbourne again for around the same length of time. Whilst Mary certainly had a Scandinavian lilt to her accent, there were quite often than not, times during our conversation where the Crown Princess would speak in a way that was certainly reflective of her Australian enunciation. And again, she possesses a soft voice that is not particularly forceful by any means. I spoke to Mary long enough to know that her accent is not fake, it is not in any way forced but it is a voice that is reflective of her circumstance and the work she has put into learning a language that now dictates most of her communication.

And in all seriousness, I found Frederik to get a little 'stage fright' (perhaps too strong a word) when speaking to the large audience. He looked at Mary a few times where she would, from what I could tell, give him a reassuring nod as if to say..'Good job, you doing great'. It was quite lovely.

And isn't it perculiar. For the Danes, Mary speaks with an Australian accent, yet here in Australia, she is often sited as speaking like a pom. Funny old world
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  #136  
Old 09-03-2006, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale
And in all seriousness, I found Frederik to get a little 'stage fright' (perhaps a too strong a word) when speaking to the large audience. He looked at Mary a few times where she would, from what I could tell, give him a reassuring nod as if to say..'Good job, you doing great'. It was quite lovely.
Madame Royale, I mentioned Frederik's apparent shyness in a previous post and was told that it was a silly concept, anyone born into the public eye couldn't possibly be shy.
I am glad that having seen him in public you too thought the same of him. He always has struck me as being happy to stand back and let Mary take the lead. I think shy people are born that way, Crown Prince or not.
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  #137  
Old 09-03-2006, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by crisscross1
Madame Royale, I mentioned Frederik's apparent shyness in a previous post and was told that it was a silly concept, anyone born into the public eye couldn't possibly be shy.
I am glad that having seen him in public you too thought the same of him. He always has struck me as being happy to stand back and let Mary take the lead. I think shy people are born that way, Crown Prince or not.
Definitly crisscross1,

Just because someone is born into the public eye does not mean they are born without shyness. I dont think that he constantly looks at Mary whether here or in Denmark for encouragement, but in certain situations such as addressing an audience in Australia, he did perhaps welcome that re-assurance from his wife.

As for standing back and letting Mary take the lead so to speak, I think that is a fairly accurate statement. Having someone to share the 'burden' of his duties and reponsibilities with, and the attention that's drawn to his wife is attention he welcomes and is very proud of. That is the impression I get
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  #138  
Old 09-03-2006, 11:06 PM
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I think the new accent Mary sports is the result of her trying very hard to be the Crown Princess she thinks that everyone wants her to be. Whether or not we agree with that posture is irrelevant; it is simply how she interepts her role.

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  #139  
Old 09-04-2006, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by crisscross1
Madame Royale, I mentioned Frederik's apparent shyness in a previous post and was told that it was a silly concept, anyone born into the public eye couldn't possibly be shy.
I am glad that having seen him in public you too thought the same of him. He always has struck me as being happy to stand back and let Mary take the lead. I think shy people are born that way, Crown Prince or not.
Crisscross1 and Madama Royal, I agree with your opinions about Frederik's shyness; it has been well-known in Denmark since his childhood that Frederik did not relish the limelight in the same way e.g. his younger brother did. And claiming that you cannot be shy if you are born into the public eye is silly IMO.
But there's hope ahead - his own mother stuttered a lot and seem very shy in public when she became queen. Like Frederik, Margrethe was born into the role she has, so if it worked out for her - which I definitely think it has - I suppose there is no reason why Frederik shouldn't also become more accostumed to his role. I find him more relaxed since he married.
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  #140  
Old 09-04-2006, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by UserDane
Crisscross1 and Madama Royal, I agree with your opinions about Frederik's shyness; it has been well-known in Denmark since his childhood that Frederik did not relish the limelight in the same way e.g. his younger brother did. And claiming that you cannot be shy if you are born into the public eye is silly IMO.

But there's hope ahead - his own mother stuttered a lot and seem very shy in public when she became queen. Like Frederik, Margrethe was born into the role she has, so if it worked out for her - which I definitely think it has - I suppose there is no reason why Frederik shouldn't also become more accostumed to his role. I find him more relaxed since he married.
Thanks UserDane.

I wasn't aware of Margrethe's hesitance in her earlier years, and as for Frederik, I couldn't agree with you more
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