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  #361  
Old 04-09-2011, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
Both QMII and PH have, before this book got published, told about that they were speaking french between the two of them. So it wasn´t that big a surprise
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Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
Both QMII and PH have, before this book got published, told about that they were speaking french between the two of them. So it wasn´t that big a surprise
I know FasterB, I remember now that you remind me ! But when reading Surrugue it really struck me how little attention Prince Henrik actually paid on learning Danish at the time by his own admission, because somehow HM failed to see the importance of doing so!.
For crying out loud: HM's mother Queen Ingrid knew how important it was to learn the languague of one's adopted country, but those educational skills were not inherited by her oldest daugther. HM has admitted to her impatience on several occasions, but honestly - in hindsight I find it surprising that noone tried to give PH a gentle push in the right direction!

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  #362  
Old 04-09-2011, 05:02 PM
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HM has admitted to her impatience on several occasions, but honestly - in hindsight I find it surprising that noone tried to give PH a gentle push in the right direction!
Henrik seems stubborn, which I imagine can be a blessing or a curse, depending on the situation. If he decided, for whatever reason, that he wasn't going to make quickly learning Danish a priority then I don't see what anyone could do. Courtiers can insist that something is important all they want but at the end of the day they work for the royal family, not the other way around. Margrethe may have tried to encourage him but really, they got married, started having children, she became queen fairly quickly - with all those other things demanding her attention she may have decided, (wisely, IMO), to pick her battles.
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  #363  
Old 06-14-2011, 09:56 AM
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Interesting discussion today with a friend of mine who happens to be a professor of linguistics.

We were discussing second languages and the dominance of the native tongue and how the elderly often revert back to the dominant language despite the fact they have spoken say, english as an example, for fifty odd years.

I mentioned Mary of Denmark and spoke of how Mary had learnt a second language rather late in life, being that she was in her late twenties/early thirties before she undertook the task.

Mary's dominant language will always be english, as we know, and although Mary says she thinks in Danish it is near impossible than an interntal translation isn't present before she articulates herslef in her adopted tongue.

My friend believes, in their professional capacity, that it's very likely in the expectant event that Mary should reach old age, and as her brain cells continue to break down (which happens to us all as we grow old), that her ability to continue speaking fluent Danish will decrease and that she will find herself reverting back to english when verbally communicating. The learnt secondary language never truly becomes that persons identified language but acts more as a blanket which over time frays. The later in life someone learns a language the more likely it is that they shall lose any achieved fluency.

It will be interesting to see how the Prince Consort is in say 10 years from now, should he still be among us (god willing).
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  #364  
Old 06-14-2011, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Interesting discussion today with a friend of mine who happens to be a professor of linguistics.

We were discussing second languages and the dominance of the native tongue and how the elderly often revert back to the dominant language despite the fact they have spoken say, english as an example, for fifty odd years.

I mentioned Mary of Denmark and spoke of how Mary had learnt a second language rather late in life, being that she was in her late twenties/early thirties before she undertook the task.

Mary's dominant language will always be english, as we know, and although Mary says she thinks in Danish it is near impossible than an interntal translation isn't present before she articulates herslef in her adopted tongue.

My friend believes, in their professional capacity, that it's very likely in the expectant event that Mary should reach old age, and as her brain cells continue to break down (which happens to us all as we grow old), that her ability to continue speaking fluent Danish will decrease and that she will find herself reverting back to english when verbally communicating. The learnt secondary language never truly becomes that persons identified language but acts more as a blanket which over time frays. The later in life someone learns a language the more likely it is that they shall lose any achieved fluency.

It will be interesting to see how the Prince Consort is in say 10 years from now, should he still be among us (god willing).
It is more the onset and progression of dementia that may cause Mary or anyone that speaks a language other than their native tongue to loose the memory of a language. Simply getting old is not generally a reason to loose ones short term memory and thereby forgetting the language one speaks everyday.
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  #365  
Old 06-14-2011, 11:54 AM
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It is more the onset and progression of dementia that may cause Mary or anyone that speaks a language other than their native tongue to loose the memory of a language. Simply getting old is not generally a reason to loose ones short term memory and thereby forgetting the language one speaks everyday.
Not so. We are not talking of a serious loss (decomposition) of cognitive ability that exceeds the normal ageing process which is what Dementia is. Though certainly for those with the onsent and consequential progression of the disease, that would amplify the process.

This is about the brain no longer successfully translating what was learnt after the brain had stopped forming which is thought to be around 24 to 25 years of age. I perhaps didn't make that clear in my initial post.

This has been witnessed throughout many immigrant communities the world over whereby their mental health, despite the natural ageing process, remains alert and consistantly stimulated by ongoing communication with locals and the indaviduals environment in general. So functioning at it's regular capacity, thus being fundamentally viable.

It has here been especially witnessed that the brain can become less and less reciprocative of it's own attempts to successfully articulate the secondary language.
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  #366  
Old 06-16-2011, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post

This is about the brain no longer successfully translating what was learnt after the brain had stopped forming which is thought to be around 24 to 25 years of age.
I had also been taught that the brain ceases to create new cells after age 25. However, in the past few years, many definitive studies are now able to document adult neurogenisis, as it is called.
Exercise is thought to be actually the number one factor for this, as well as learning something new, especially a language, for example.
But, I can certainly see your point that you have more brain cells when your brain is forming, of course, and a language learned "young" is more with you.
In fact, I have read that below 5 years old is optimal for learning languages.

And, I had a very good friend who fits your theory perfectly. She grew up in Brittany, France and learned the Gaelic type dialect as a child. Then, French of course, then English. When she was having a mild stroke, she spoke to us in the Gaelic in the ambulance, then, only in French after that.
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  #367  
Old 06-16-2011, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Interesting discussion today with a friend of mine who happens to be a professor of linguistics.

We were discussing second languages and the dominance of the native tongue and how the elderly often revert back to the dominant language despite the fact they have spoken say, english as an example, for fifty odd years.

I mentioned Mary of Denmark and spoke of how Mary had learnt a second language rather late in life, being that she was in her late twenties/early thirties before she undertook the task.

Mary's dominant language will always be english, as we know, and although Mary says she thinks in Danish it is near impossible than an interntal translation isn't present before she articulates herslef in her adopted tongue.

My friend believes, in their professional capacity, that it's very likely in the expectant event that Mary should reach old age, and as her brain cells continue to break down (which happens to us all as we grow old), that her ability to continue speaking fluent Danish will decrease and that she will find herself reverting back to english when verbally communicating. The learnt secondary language never truly becomes that persons identified language but acts more as a blanket which over time frays. The later in life someone learns a language the more likely it is that they shall lose any achieved fluency.

It will be interesting to see how the Prince Consort is in say 10 years from now, should he still be among us (god willing).

Thank you for sharing this topic. I did notice my late mother-in-law who spoke English for 40 plus years reverting to her native German toward the end of her life.
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  #368  
Old 06-16-2011, 09:53 PM
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You are all very smart. My mother, who was born in Russia and came here, Bless her, 90 years ago, at 6 years old, speaks, impeccable English and has no recollection of ever speaking any other language. A very dear friend, who came here from Norway, went to college here and has never left, has an accent.
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  #369  
Old 06-16-2011, 11:12 PM
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In fact, I have read that below 5 years old is optimal for learning languages.

That's what I've long been told myself. The brain whilst continuing to form at that very early age is the time when it is taking in as much as it can. It's absorbing so much information and it is at this time that the people we become in adult life and the languages, values and prejudices we grow to have and learn, are greatly influenced by the environments and people we have around us as young children. The likeliness that in old age, these languages are still fluently articulated is much greater than for someone who had learnt a language beyond 25 years because it was established in that indaviduals 'wiring' during that period.


Quote:
Exercise is thought to be actually the number one factor for this, as well as learning something new, especially a language, for example.
Learning a language, at that stage of life, appears to be about keeping the mind as active as possible, making it focus, rather than actually trying to sustain an achieved level of fluency that is long term. A) Because of their age, B) the cells only continue to dissipate and C) it gives them something to do. Much like crosswords and puzzles, it set's a challenge.
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  #370  
Old 06-30-2011, 01:38 AM
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Levi-Strauss did a lot of research on personal acquisition of language through his work in structural linguistics.
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  #371  
Old 06-30-2011, 03:16 AM
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Thank you for this interesting polyglottal contribution.

Through family circumstances, I acquired/learnt several European languages. Through my work I had to learn several more, including Hebrew, Aramaic and Russian.

I'm now 61 and even more interested in languages than when I was a little girl of three or four.

What does that say?
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  #372  
Old 06-30-2011, 03:57 AM
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What does that say?
That they are of genuine interest to you, would probably sum it up.
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  #373  
Old 07-02-2011, 01:26 PM
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I have not heard Mary speak Danish but I just wonder if she speaks it with a little bit of an aussie accent.
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  #374  
Old 07-02-2011, 06:44 PM
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I have not heard Mary speak Danish but I just wonder if she speaks it with a little bit of an aussie accent.
You can sometimes discern something aussie. But usually it's quite undefinable to pinpoint the accent. It's there, clearly - but seems "orphan".

IMO, she shares accent with Countess Alexandra (they shared the same teacher, which explains a lot). And Alexandra is from Hong Kong, speaking Oxford English - also undiscernable.
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  #375  
Old 07-04-2011, 03:48 PM
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Hello to all.

I'm new to royal watching and have to admit that I, like many Americans, don't know much about any royal family other than the British royal family. I actually became interested in the Danish royal family after watching the wedding of Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary on YouTube. In brief online research of CP Mary, I've noticed a bit of resentment and hostility toward her on other forums. Can anyone enlighten me as to why? From what I've read of her, she seems to be a fascinating and beautiful person. Why such bitterness from other online posters?

I look forward to being a part of this community and expanding my knowledge of royal families. Thanks for any insight, advice, and suggestions!
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  #376  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:27 PM
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In brief online research of CP Mary, I've noticed a bit of resentment and hostility toward her on other forums. Can anyone enlighten me as to why? From what I've read of her, she seems to be a fascinating and beautiful person. Why such bitterness from other online posters?
I think this thread was the perfect place to pose this question, because I believe language is the main reason there are such heavy opinions (both ways) about certain female royals. I asked myself the same question about Mary a few months ago - What makes her different from other Crown Princesses in the way that she can provoke such strong reactions? I think it all has to do with English as her first language. Her early interviews, family, press in Australia created accessibility that Mathilde, Mette-Marit, Letizia, and Maxima never could achieve. The English language gives people more material to admire, and more importantly, scrutinize.
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  #377  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:25 AM
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I have not heard Mary speak Danish but I just wonder if she speaks it with a little bit of an aussie accent.
Yes she does. At times, it's quite noticeable.
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  #378  
Old 07-05-2011, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kansasmama4 View Post
Hello to all.

I'm new to royal watching and have to admit that I, like many Americans, don't know much about any royal family other than the British royal family. I actually became interested in the Danish royal family after watching the wedding of Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary on YouTube. In brief online research of CP Mary, I've noticed a bit of resentment and hostility toward her on other forums. Can anyone enlighten me as to why? From what I've read of her, she seems to be a fascinating and beautiful person. Why such bitterness from other online posters?

I look forward to being a part of this community and expanding my knowledge of royal families. Thanks for any insight, advice, and suggestions!

First of all - Welcome.

Second, I've noticed the hostility towards CPM too - it's even on this forum (she's not alone though). But other forums or comments on articles from (primarily Australian newspapers) the hostility can seem quite malicious.
I have no clear explanation for this. It seems like a blend of sour grapes, anti-monarchy sentiment, and downright envy. I've never come across anything substantial that can explain the hostility, such as concrete hostile behaviour or expression of controversial opinions etc. Usually it's something someone has said - as an anonymous source in a dubious article or book (A danish "author" Trine Villemann published a book filled with anonymous sources and slandor about the royal family) or a (falsely?) percieved arrogance.

I know there is very little critizism of Mary in Denmark (although the republicans insist that the monarchy should be abolished. Republicans can muster about 15% of the population in Denmark - on a good day).
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  #379  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 View Post
I have not heard Mary speak Danish but I just wonder if she speaks it with a little bit of an aussie accent.
There are some videos in youtube, where you can watch her speaking danish. She is really cute speaking it!
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  #380  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:08 AM
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There is nothing wrong with a little accent. Everyone who is not a native Danish, has an accent. The problem is when that accent gets to heavy, and mispronounciation makes the listener loose the meaning af what is being said. This is in no way Marys problem. Even HM Queen Ingrid had a Swedish accent to her Danish.
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