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  #101  
Old 10-23-2006, 03:23 PM
UserDane's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota
it's ok, userdane, i really appreciate your posts.

i can understand what you say about alexandra and the new boyfriend soon after the announcement. i would just like to point out two things. firstly, that the 'cheating' of her husband was not new, and since that was the reason, everyone knew joachim was the bad guy and alexandra the cheated one.
Anytime, nice discussing it with you
Not important but... I don't think that Alexandra as the cheated one is the unanimous feeling everywhere nowadays. Joachim's behaviour might be his reaction to being the cheated one. We'll probably never know; anyhow, they are having in an adult and dignified manner now which is good.
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  #102  
Old 10-23-2006, 03:54 PM
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I think that Mary just needs to be herself. She needs to hear the good criticism and allow it to make her grow as a person, to better herself in whatever she needs to better herself and throw out (disregard) the bad criticism. We all need to do that once in a while. It's what growing up, maturing and learning from our mistakes is all about. Off topic, I know, but I didn't know that Joachim cheating on Alexandra had caused the split...he'd done it before too? I'd heard he was wild but I didn't think he was that type of wild.
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  #103  
Old 10-23-2006, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelD
Off topic, I know, but I didn't know that Joachim cheating on Alexandra had caused the split...he'd done it before too? I'd heard he was wild but I didn't think he was that type of wild.
No we don't know what he did - or what she did. He has had some unfortunate appearances at discos etc.; she presented a new boyfriend. What actually came first, only they themselves know.
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  #104  
Old 10-23-2006, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
No we don't know what he did - or what she did. He has had some unfortunate appearances at discos etc.; she presented a new boyfriend. What actually came first, only they themselves know.
Oh...and here I was thinking, 'Oh! It's finally known what the last straw was!'. I guess not...we are still in the dark...oh well!

Thanks!
  #105  
Old 10-23-2006, 06:46 PM
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Location: Melbourne & Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota
with this background, i don't see what's so special about mary. not too far away is her sister in law princess alexandra, who did the same, but from a further away country and a totally different place in tradition, hong kong. i, however, don't see such praise for alexandra or members saying as much how she moved from so long, adapted so well and so forth. i'm not saying it wasn't hard for mary to move, i'm sure it was... but why not praising other royals who were in the same position? and more importantly: why not praise other people who move to other countries without as much help as mary had? i can assure you i don't hear those comments much in real life...
Thanks for your perspective, Carlota.

Not being all that familiar with Princess Alexandra I can't really say, but, the countess' move does not represent Mary's. I still maintain that to make a comparative analysis does not benefit the discussion whether referring to another royal or someone of the general public.

I'm not saying what you have posted about Alexandra to be inaccurate (again, I'm not well researched with her to make such a comment), rather that its a discussion best suited for a thread where Alexandra is the subject, and not Mary

If you may permit me? Tasmania is furtherest away from Denmark than Hong Kong, geographically speaking.

Have a nice day.
  #106  
Old 10-23-2006, 08:33 PM
Harmony's Avatar
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Location: Tropical city somewhere near, Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
Hi carlota. It is obvious that you do not like Mary . That is fine.
BTW CPss Letizia recently wore a coat of astrakhan up to knee length.
Hi Carlota

I don't think I am violent but rather the opposite.I should have add a smile.
Here are the photos you ask for

CPss Letizia arriving in Oviedo - 19/10/2006. Credit royalfamily of CPMMB with thanks.
Source from Scanpix and PRB

Click for bigger pictures





There are more photos there.

You can see some in
http://forums.rbhq.net/showthread.php?t=7290&page=5
  #107  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:01 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
Hi Carlota

I don't think I am violent but rather the opposite.I should have add a smile.
Here are the photos you ask for

CPss Letizia arriving in Oviedo - 19/10/2006. Credit royalfamily of CPMMB with thanks.
Source from Scanpix and PRB

Click for bigger pictures





There are more photos there.

You can see some in
http://forums.rbhq.net/showthread.php?t=7290&page=5
Hi Harmony

Yeah, Letizia was also wearing fur - the little Persian lambs. Letizia's coat is a fur coat and a leather coat. You can wear it as a fur coat with the leather lining. Or, you can wear it as a leather coat with the fur lining as seen at Letizia's pictures above.

There are buttons on both sides of Letizia's coat!
  #108  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:49 PM
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Please let's get back on topic.

Thanks,

Mandy
Danish Forum Moderator
  #109  
Old 10-24-2006, 12:54 AM
tabbitha's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
I'm sure that most of us were raised with principles - some more prominent than others. I have thankfully also experienced that with age some tends to get a better grip of the complexity of things and not only read everything in black and white.
I have other personal beliefs by which I judge persons and their actions
Couldn't agree more Userdane.. I guess going through someone's trash is very moralistic isn't it How do we know Mary didn't have an investment of her own- why do we assume Fred paid for everything- any proof- i doubt it and if he is happy to do so who are we to question it- it is between them...He would hardly get Mary to come to Denmark if he didn't have intentions of marrying her ..
  #110  
Old 10-24-2006, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
Actually, Alexandra was so much discussed when she entered Denmark many years ago. I personally had it up to here *indicative gesture* hearing and reading about Alexandra I must admit. Nowadays, the royal discussions seem to me to take place more in Internet forums like this one. But believe me - Alexandra was praised to the skies and for some reason she keeps her semi-goddess status around these boards no matter what she does.

Alexandra certainly did not come with a background that made the transition to DK more difficult IMO. She had an Austrian mother - and many foreigners have claimed that learning Danish is much easier once you know a language like German (my own language teacher claimed that as well). I suppose it's individual whether you consider Hong Kong or Australia to be most distant to DK - to us Danes they are just both very far away I think.

I can understand why you would feel that Mary is 'praised to cloud nine'. I don't think she is praised as much as defended. If she wasn't the recipient of so much - IMO - unfair criticism the need to defend her so vigoursly would not be there. I would prefer the discussions of Mary to go alongside discussions of any other CP or princess - where it should be I think.
But for some - to me - totally inexplicable reason we have in DK a princess with a semi-goddess status no matter what she does and another who is often harshly critised on Internet board no matter what she does. If M had acted like A, she would have been crusified in this Internet world. Really strange I think.
Another excellent post Userdane
  #111  
Old 10-24-2006, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
As to defending Mary, I meant mainly the critism that seems to single out Mary and not allowing her to make the same mistakes that are easily forgiven for other princesses.
What mistakes have other princesses made that have been excused?
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  #112  
Old 10-24-2006, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbitha
Couldn't agree more Userdane.. I guess going through someone's trash is very moralistic isn't it How do we know Mary didn't have an investment of her own- why do we assume Fred paid for everything- any proof- i doubt it and if he is happy to do so who are we to question it- it is between them...He would hardly get Mary to come to Denmark if he didn't have intentions of marrying her ..
I assume, because there is nothing to suggest that she had any "investments" of her own. She lived in a shared flat, she didn't have particularly amazing jobs and she didn't have the support of family money.
Fred may be happy to pay her way, but it says alot about her if she's prepared to be kept in such a way, imo.

And as for marriage she moved in the beginning of 2002, (I think)and the engagemnt didn't take place until the late summer of 2003. It certainly took him a long time to make up his mind if he had marriage on the cards!
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  #113  
Old 10-24-2006, 05:13 AM
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Frederik and Mary knew of their own engagement before the press did, even before the public announcement. They knew marriage was going to happen. When we (the public) found out about their engagement, they must have already known about it ages before that. They didnt find out they were engaged just when we did LOL!
  #114  
Old 10-24-2006, 05:44 AM
tabbitha's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Australian
Frederik and Mary knew of their own engagement before the press did, even before the public announcement. They knew marriage was going to happen. When we (the public) found out about their engagement, they must have already known about it ages before that. They didnt find out they were engaged just when we did LOL!
Oh that's right- they asked your permission first-
  #115  
Old 10-24-2006, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
Hi Carlota

I don't think I am violent but rather the opposite.I should have add a smile.
Here are the photos you ask for

CPss Letizia arriving in Oviedo - 19/10/2006. Credit royalfamily of CPMMB with thanks.
Source from Scanpix and PRB

Click for bigger pictures





There are more photos there.

You can see some in
http://forums.rbhq.net/showthread.php?t=7290&page=5
thanks for the photos, harmony. as i said, i extend what i said about mary's coat to letizia. that certainly looks like astrakhan to me. (just wanted to point out that i wasn't a fan of the coat, nor the ensemble. i think the whole not only didn't match but doesn't look as 'polished' as what letizia wears normally. the colours were dull and didn't flatter her at all in my opinion.)

i need to mention as well that i don't know what's the point with saying that 'letizia also wore astrakhan' though. as the other poster said, this thread is about mary and what we think of mary. there's also a thread for the princes of asturias in their forum. i'd mention what i like and dislike about any princesses, and that doesn't depend on whether i like them or not, which is something that everyone should do, in my opinion. it seems that for some people what x princess does will always be ok, while what y princess does is always bad and requires criticism.
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  #116  
Old 10-24-2006, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
I assume, because there is nothing to suggest that she had any "investments" of her own. She lived in a shared flat, she didn't have particularly amazing jobs and she didn't have the support of family money.
Fred may be happy to pay her way, but it says alot about her if she's prepared to be kept in such a way, imo.

And as for marriage she moved in the beginning of 2002, (I think)and the engagemnt didn't take place until the late summer of 2003. It certainly took him a long time to make up his mind if he had marriage on the cards!
She worked for the company Navision from beginning of September and quit some where around the engagement.

Furthermore I would say it is pretty wise not to rush in. Afterall we are not talking about a simple marriage outside the spotlight with average resposibilities.

She did not just marry the man, she married the man, the country and the citizens. Every one of them.

When she came she knew the man, but not the country, its people or how live would be with constant attention directed at your persona. She had a good taste before signing the deal.

Clever girl not just to grab the ring ......... and the tiara.
  #117  
Old 10-24-2006, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
Personally I think it reveals alot about a person. I'm thankful that my parents raised me in way that I would never even consider being "kept" by a man in the way Mary was when she moved to Denmark.
It reveals a lack of basic principles, imo. Of course you're free to disagree, which I'm sure you will.
If you are really interested in Mary's view on why she moved to Denmark, I advise to read her pre-wedding interviews which were translated and published here, somewhere earlier in this forum.

There she discusses in as many details as one could wish all these arrangements and why they arranged things that way, so you need not speculate but know. IIRC Mary was not "kept" at all, but worked till her engagement was officially announced. If so, Frederick only helped with the costs of the move.

But sometimes I wonder about the depth of interest in other people's financial arrangements...
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  #118  
Old 10-24-2006, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
I assume, because there is nothing to suggest that she had any "investments" of her own. She lived in a shared flat, she didn't have particularly amazing jobs and she didn't have the support of family money.
Fred may be happy to pay her way, but it says alot about her if she's prepared to be kept in such a way, imo.

And as for marriage she moved in the beginning of 2002, (I think)and the engagemnt didn't take place until the late summer of 2003. It certainly took him a long time to make up his mind if he had marriage on the cards!
Hm, it's is a fact that Mary and Frederick come from very different backgrounds. Still, they met, liked each other and decided to see what the future would bring. At one point it was saying no to a future together or a move for one of them as the relationship could not go on like it was with them living half of the world apart.

At that point it was clear that it was Mary who had to move because it was impossible for Fred. But the fact that it was his position which made her move a necessity makes him responsible for it. So he had to shoulder at least part of the responsibility by helping with paying for the costs that arose from this situation.

It's the same as in business life: when your company wants you to move, they pay for it. They pay for the move, they grant benefits for expats, they help with (or even pay for ) the rent - that's the most normal thing in business life. So why does taking the company's money advance a woman into a successful business woman who is so much in demand that her company is willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of having her move? While at the same time the accepting of the help of the boyfriend when it come to a private move in order to see if there might be a chance for marriage turnes the girl in question into a "kept" woman?

Can you please explain this different view to an IMHO very similar situation?
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #119  
Old 10-24-2006, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Australian
Frederik and Mary knew of their own engagement before the press did, even before the public announcement. They knew marriage was going to happen. When we (the public) found out about their engagement, they must have already known about it ages before that. They didnt find out they were engaged just when we did LOL!
I didn't suggest anything of the sort, so there's no need to be patronising.
However Fred proposed in the late summer of 2003, Mary moved to Denmark a long time before that. Therefore marriage obviously wasn't a huge priority otherwise he would have proposed before that.
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  #120  
Old 10-24-2006, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MargreteI
She worked for the company Navision from beginning of September and quit some where around the engagement.
Would that be the company where it was revealed by her fellow co-workers that she barely showed up for work, by any chance? The same company that is in fact run by a very good friend of Fred's?
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