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  #81  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
May I ask why you've changed what you were saying before? Your previous post said that she was going to Denmark to be the "Queen's future daughter-in-law".
She knew she was, i stand by that. I didn't change anything. She and Fred would have known, it's as simple as that. She isnt going to move to Denmark for no reason. Even though their engagement wasnt annouced to the public, they would have known in advance. So no, my story never changed.

Like i said Little_star, you have to think outside the square. They knew before the engagement notice came out that they were going to be engaged.
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  #82  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Not questioning what you have read, I think by your own admission that it was a journalist who 'found' (just because they write about it does not make it so unless of course they provided an authentic copy of the bill?) the document that its quite plausable to keep in mind the possibilities of factual neglect.
I see no reason to doubt the article as he mentioned several items of correspondence and photos were also found (which was published with the article).
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  #83  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:27 AM
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The information about the unpaid bills came out in an article about the extreme media interest in Mary. A Danish tabloid paid an Australian investigator to get information on Mary, this was when she was still living in Australia. The investigator in question waited until the rubbish bin belonging to the house she lived at was put out onto the street. ( If it's still on private property it's trespass and invasion of privacy, if it's out on the street. No problem) At the time Mary was packing up her life to move to Europe, the investigator found old bills, her salary statements, an old driver's licence, basically a variety of things were thrown out. Around the time that Emma Tom's book came out an article was written by the investigator telling about what he found and his employment by the Danish tabloid. It was an Australian paper that published the story.
  #84  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizy
Little Star, I remember too reading about unpaid bills found in a bin etc and it was in the thread re a new book about Mary written by Emma Toms. I had a look through and a lot of the linked articles are no longer available although there are some. I'm sure if you dig through this thread you'll find something!
I've never read the Emma Tom book so have no idea if she mentions the article there. A friend emailed it to me a very long time ago and I no longer have it. It would have been from the time she left Australia. Unfortunately I don't have the time to go looking for it.
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  #85  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Australian
She knew she was, i stand by that. I didn't change anything. She and Fred would have known, it's as simple as that. She isnt going to move to Denmark for no reason. Even though their engagement wasnt annouced to the public, they would have known in advance. So no, my story never changed.
As there is nothing to confirm that as fact perhaps we should maintain that it is just your opinion.
After all, didn't Mary say in one of her numerous interviews that there were no guarantees when she left and that moving was just the next step, or something similar?
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  #86  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
Personally I think it reveals alot about a person. I'm thankful that my parents raised me in way that I would never even consider being "kept" by a man in the way Mary was when she moved to Denmark.
It reveals a lack of basic principles, imo. Of course you're free to disagree, which I'm sure you will.
I'm sure that most of us were raised with principles - some more prominent than others. I have thankfully also experienced that with age some tends to get a better grip of the complexity of things and not only read everything in black and white.
I have other personal beliefs by which I judge persons and their actions
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  #87  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:32 AM
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Lets just put it down to it as being your opinion too, by the way, next step to what? marriage? of course.
  #88  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
The information about the unpaid bills came out in an article about the extreme media interest in Mary. A Danish tabloid paid an Australian investigator to get information on Mary, this was when she was still living in Australia. The investigator in question waited until the rubbish bin belonging to the house she lived at was put out onto the street. ( If it's still on private property it's trespass and invasion of privacy, if it's out on the street. No problem) At the time Mary was packing up her life to move to Europe, the investigator found old bills, her salary statements, an old driver's licence, basically a variety of things were thrown out. Around the time that Emma Tom's book came out an article was written by the investigator telling about what he found and his employment by the Danish tabloid. It was an Australian paper that published the story.
Thank you, Charlotte1

I shall quote straight from the book itself.

"...he has bank statements charting Mary's spending habits at shops such as Fish Records, Macro Wholefoods, Pelagio's Provedore, the Establishment Hotel and Stylz Hair Design, as well as a friendly reminder from Diners Club revealing that, at the time she met Fred, she was overdure on a $855.12 payment." (the unpaid bill it would seem)

Nothing to do with Denmark or the Crown Prince for that matter. Its a shame when extracts are taken out of context whether it be done purposely or otherwise.

Quote:
being "kept" by a man in the way Mary was when she moved to Denmark.
Again, you have nothing to support this and I definitly dont believe speculation (or to some degree, wishfull thinking?) to assist the discussion in a healthy way.
  #89  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
I see no reason to doubt the article as he mentioned several items of correspondence and photos were also found (which was published with the article).
Yes,

Also retrieved from the rubbish was a postcard, old letters, a drivers licence, contact addresses in Scotland, hand written side notes, a picture or two and other domestic household bits and pieces, inlcuding dinner leftovers no doubt

It is even stated in the book that it is unconfirmed as to what actually belonged to Mary apart from the licence, Scottish addreses and old letters.
  #90  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Thank you, Charlotte1

I shall quote straight from the book itself.

"...he has bank statements charting Mary's spending habits at shops such as Fish Records, Macro Wholefoods, Pelagio's Provedore, the Establishment Hotel and Stylz Hair Design, as well as a friendly reminder from Diners Club revealing that, at the time she met Fred, she was overdure on a $855.12 payment."

Nothing to do with Denmark or the Crown Prince for that matter. Its a shame when extracts are taken out of context whether it be done purposely or otherwise.
I didn't say it had anything to do with Denmark or Fred so I have no idea what you're trying to imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Again, you have nothing to support this and I definitly dont believe speculation (or to some degree, wishfull thinking?) to assist the discussion in a healthy way.
Nor do you have anything to disprove it. However based on her previous jobs (which were hardly exceptional), her lifestyle in Australia and the way she lived once she got to Denmark it's quite clear in my mind that she was definitely getting financial help (and lots of it) from Fred. However if you disagree, that's your opinion.
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  #91  
Old 10-23-2006, 10:10 AM
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I think she has achieve a very high level and she is a very professional person in all events she takes part.
  #92  
Old 10-23-2006, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
I didn't say it had anything to do with Denmark or Fred so I have no idea what you're trying to imply.
I'm not implying anything, just discussing a topic that is of obvious interest to many.

I refer to your post, #72

Quote:
My response
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Yes, I meant all forms of support whether financial or otherwise. And to be fare, you or I aren't aware of the financial arrangements between the then Miss Donaldson and Crown Prince Frederik. It is nothing but speculation
Your reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
Based on the unpaid bills a journalist found in her rubbish when she left (I no longer have the article) and the fact that she hardly had the most successful of job histories I think it's safe to say that she was being financially supported by Fred.
How else could she have possibly paid for her apartment in Copenhagen? It cost approximately $5000 a month.
Quote:
Nor do you have anything to disprove it. However based on her previous jobs (which were hardly exceptional), her lifestyle in Australia and the way she lived once she got to Denmark it's quite clear in my mind that she was definitely getting financial help (and lots of it) from Fred. However if you disagree, that's your opinion.
I never said there was anything to disporve it, rather I dont lay down judgement upon someone when all I have to go by is assumptions. There is not a piece of credicble matter in such claims.

I disagree wholeheartedly, and that's ok. You disagree, and that's ok.
  #93  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Why take the time to explore the obvious (by anyone's standards) when the differences are many and of no real significance given we were not talking of people in general, but of one person (two if you put yourself in her place as was proposed by Surfcity) I mean no offence, I just can't see its relevance that's all.

the reason is because if you are saying how wonderful a person is, you are implicitely comparing that person with the rest. that's perhaps why some members said that there are thousands of people moving country everyday and that mary is no exception to the rule. moreover, she had plenty more of support than most of the people do have.

with this background, i don't see what's so special about mary. not too far away is her sister in law princess alexandra, who did the same, but from a further away country and a totally different place in tradition, hong kong. i, however, don't see such praise for alexandra or members saying as much how she moved from so long, adapted so well and so forth. i'm not saying it wasn't hard for mary to move, i'm sure it was... but why not praising other royals who were in the same position? and more importantly: why not praise other people who move to other countries without as much help as mary had? i can assure you i don't hear those comments much in real life...

i have nothing against mary, but i have the impression some people tend to put her in cloud number nine. there were some details of her that i didn't like. the fashion obsession is one of them, and no... it's not only about the events she attends. someone who she had a (quite long, i assume) chat with told me she talked all the time that person was with her about prada and about clothes. why would a girl that is so laid back and a 'girl next door' be that superficial? why would someone who didn't have access to buying those types of clothes before she married talk so incesantly about them? it's contrasting specially when you see her attending mental health events, for example. i find it all quite hypocritical.

appart from that, i appreciate she has many good qualities as well, but some of them, for example the wa she dresses are sometimes quite irrelevant to the role: i'm sure everyone would prefer a princess who is working 5 days a week rather than a princess that works 2 days a week but looks marvellous.
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  #94  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota
with this background, i don't see what's so special about mary. not too far away is her sister in law princess alexandra, who did the same, but from a further away country and a totally different place in tradition, hong kong. i, however, don't see such praise for alexandra or members saying as much how she moved from so long, adapted so well and so forth. i'm not saying it wasn't hard for mary to move, i'm sure it was... but why not praising other royals who were in the same position? and more importantly: why not praise other people who move to other countries without as much help as mary had? i can assure you i don't hear those comments much in real life...

i have nothing against mary, but i have the impression some people tend to put her in cloud number nine. .
Actually, Alexandra was so much discussed when she entered Denmark many years ago. I personally had it up to here *indicative gesture* hearing and reading about Alexandra I must admit. Nowadays, the royal discussions seem to me to take place more in Internet forums like this one. But believe me - Alexandra was praised to the skies and for some reason she keeps her semi-goddess status around these boards no matter what she does.

Alexandra certainly did not come with a background that made the transition to DK more difficult IMO. She had an Austrian mother - and many foreigners have claimed that learning Danish is much easier once you know a language like German (my own language teacher claimed that as well). I suppose it's individual whether you consider Hong Kong or Australia to be most distant to DK - to us Danes they are just both very far away I think.

I can understand why you would feel that Mary is 'praised to cloud nine'. I don't think she is praised as much as defended. If she wasn't the recipient of so much - IMO - unfair criticism the need to defend her so vigoursly would not be there. I would prefer the discussions of Mary to go alongside discussions of any other CP or princess - where it should be I think.
But for some - to me - totally inexplicable reason we have in DK a princess with a semi-goddess status no matter what she does and another who is often harshly critised on Internet board no matter what she does. If M had acted like A, she would have been crusified in this Internet world. Really strange I think.
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  #95  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota

i have nothing against mary, but i have the impression some people tend to put her in cloud number nine.
I see no difference with those people whose interests are in other princesses just like yours for eg. CPss Letizia, Maxima, Mette-Marit, etc. These princesses have been put on cloud nine as well. I see nothing wrong with that that people like the princesses of their own choices and spent more time discussing their interests rather than picking on Royalty they don't like like some people.
  #96  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
I see no difference with those people whose interests are in other princesses just like yours for eg. CPss Letizia, Maxima, Mette-Marit, etc. These princesses have been put on cloud nine as well. I see nothing wrong with that that people like the princesses of their own choices and spent more time discussing their interests rather than picking on Royalty they don't like like some people.
if you see this whole thread, it's the second time i intervene in in the 70 pages that it already has. moreover, i don't think i'm picking on anyone. i'm just saying my opinion on the subject that is being discussed.

i never put letizia neither mette marit on cloud number nine. in fact, if you look to many threads i critisised them for things they both did that i didn't entirely like. it's true that i like maxima, though, but that doesn't stop me from saying (like today) that i didn't like her dress in canberra. i have the impression (specially with mary) that everything seems to be ok, and never heard from those who praise her (which i find totally normal and respectable) anything bad about anything. nobody is perfect...
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  #97  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
Actually, Alexandra was so much discussed when she entered Denmark many years ago. I personally had it up to here *indicative gesture* hearing and reading about Alexandra I must admit. Nowadays, the royal discussions seem to me to take place more in Internet forums like this one. But believe me - Alexandra was praised to the skies and for some reason she keeps her semi-goddess status around these boards no matter what she does.

Alexandra certainly did not come with a background that made the transition to DK more difficult IMO. She had an Austrian mother - and many foreigners have claimed that learning Danish is much easier once you know a language like German (my own language teacher claimed that as well). I suppose it's individual whether you consider Hong Kong or Australia to be most distant to DK - to us Danes they are just both very far away I think.

I can understand why you would feel that Mary is 'praised to cloud nine'. I don't think she is praised as much as defended. If she wasn't the recipient of so much - IMO - unfair criticism the need to defend her so vigoursly would not be there. I would prefer the discussions of Mary to go alongside discussions of any other CP or princess - where it should be I think.
But for some - to me - totally inexplicable reason we have in DK a princess with a semi-goddess status no matter what she does and another who is often harshly critised on Internet board no matter what she does. If M had acted like A, she would have been crusified in this Internet world. Really strange I think.
what was that thing that alexandra did so wrong? i'm not sure what you mean.

i'm actually not proficient enough to know how alexandra was received in denmark and you must know better, but i heard she also faced constant criticism. it must have been harder from her, being a foreign princess just as mary, to open herself up to denmark and to the danish nation, as she was the first one.

i'm also not quite sure about how you think mary needs to be defended. appart from the silly australian pink press quoting silly rumours, not many people critisise her. i would appreciate if you could explain me more.
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  #98  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:42 PM
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Hi carlota. It is obvious that you do not like Mary . That is fine.
BTW CPss Letizia recently wore a coat of astrakhan up to knee length.
  #99  
Old 10-23-2006, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota
what was that thing that alexandra did so wrong? i'm not sure what you mean.

i'm actually not proficient enough to know how alexandra was received in denmark and you must know better, but i heard she also faced constant criticism. it must have been harder from her, being a foreign princess just as mary, to open herself up to denmark and to the danish nation, as she was the first one.

i'm also not quite sure about how you think mary needs to be defended. appart from the silly australian pink press quoting silly rumours, not many people critisise her. i would appreciate if you could explain me more.
I'm not judging whether Alexandra did anything wrong as such; but IMO Mary would face very strong critisim had she divorced her Danish prince and soon after revealed that she was firmly settled in a new relationship; had Mary been granted almost the same amount as her divorced husband for what now seems to be a declining number of public appearances, she would also again IMO face heavy critism.
I realise that I am making claims when I say that Alexandra got a very positive reception when she came to DK. True, it might be difficult to be the first - but I think the got the benefit from it. DK hadn't had any young princesses for decades and the tabloids were dying to get one, and they got one. As usual, the tabloids ran out of trivia to write about at some point and made some critism of A - but that's almost the textbook reaction for tabloids. I certainly don't recall 'constant' critism. She always had and still has a lot of appeal to many Danes.

As to defending Mary, I meant mainly the critism that seems to single out Mary and not allowing her to make the same mistakes that are easily forgiven for other princesses. There are even boards dedicated to this 'fine art' and some active participants will of course try to start similar patterns. Fortunately, this is very much checked here. Those who like Mary, both here and at other forums, will naturally defend her when she is ridiculed no matter what she wears, when the reason for every patronage she has is questioned etc. and when even her child is being ridiculed and called names (not here I should emphasize).

I don't think that Mary is perfect and I do think that she's made some not so wise decisions. But I do think that she should be allowed the same space to 'solidify' herself as is e.g. given to Maxima, MM, Mathilde, and Letizia.

Sorry for making this so long
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  #100  
Old 10-23-2006, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserDane
I'm not judging whether Alexandra did anything wrong as such; but IMO Mary would face very strong critisim had she divorced her Danish prince and soon after revealed that she was firmly settled in a new relationship; had Mary been granted almost the same amount as her divorced husband for what now seems to be a declining number of public appearances, she would also again IMO face heavy critism.
I realise that I am making claims when I say that Alexandra got a very positive reception when she came to DK. True, it might be difficult to be the first - but I think the got the benefit from it. DK hadn't had any young princesses for decades and the tabloids were dying to get one, and they got one. As usual, the tabloids ran out of trivia to write about at some point and made some critism of A - but that's almost the textbook reaction for tabloids. I certainly don't recall 'constant' critism. She always had and still has a lot of appeal to many Danes.

As to defending Mary, I meant mainly the critism that seems to single out Mary and not allowing her to make the same mistakes that are easily forgiven for other princesses. There are even boards dedicated to this 'fine art' and some active participants will of course try to start similar patterns. Fortunately, this is very much checked here. Those who like Mary, both here and at other forums, will naturally defend her when she is ridiculed no matter what she wears, when the reason for every patronage she has is questioned etc. and when even her child is being ridiculed and called names (not here I should emphasize).

I don't think that Mary is perfect and I do think that she's made some not so wise decisions. But I do think that she should be allowed the same space to 'solidify' herself as is e.g. given to Maxima, MM, Mathilde, and Letizia.

Sorry for making this so long
it's ok, userdane, i really appreciate your posts.

i can understand what you say about alexandra and the new boyfriend soon after the announcement. i would just like to point out two things. firstly, that the 'cheating' of her husband was not new, and since that was the reason, everyone knew joachim was the bad guy and alexandra the cheated one. perhaps that's why the danes approved it, in my opinion. secondly, they both hold different positions. alexandra is a princess, while mary is the crown princess and future queen, so it's normal that they both face different challenges and difficulties. perhaps mary faces more of those, will at the same time enjoys more privileges than alexandra (there's always a good side to evething )

i didn't know mary (or her son) was ridiculed about what she wears or everything else you said before. i certainly didn't hear that happen...

about the space of maxima, mette marit, letizia, mathilde... i must say that appart from mathilde, i heard criticism towards all of them. you only need to go to certain spanish websites and you will see how they are simply sites to critisise letizia. with some opinions i agree, and with some others i don't. about mette marit an maxima... oh well, we just need to remember how mette marit cried to ask norway for a second chance just before her wedding because of all the rubbish they took out from mette marit's past. the same for maxima and all the implications of her dad as minister of the dictadorship in argentina, causing her parents not to be present at her wedding.

Quote:
Hi carlota. It is obvious that you do not like Mary . That is fine.
BTW CPss Letizia recently wore a coat of astrakhan up to knee length.
harmony, there's no need to be violent. the discussion we were having with userdane and madame royal was until now fine, and i don't see why the need to be so violent. i also see no need for saying whether i like mary or not. i think it's evident what my opinion is and your post clarified nothing and actually sounded violent and agressive to me.

i would condemn the use of astrakhan here and there. if you could let me know when letizia wore an astrakhan coat, that i certainly don't remember, i would extend my opinion about astrakhan to letizia. i must say though that i follow felipe and letizia very closely and don't remember her wearing astrakhan at all during her years as princess. so please, if you find a photo or an article, let me know. in the meantime i'll ask some people at the spanish forums, but i doubt there's any photos of letizia wearing it (i don't even recall her wearing fur at all, but...)
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Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

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