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  #181  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:11 AM
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The title of the tread is to do with the change in the 4 years she has been in Denmark. There have been dramatic changes from her days in Australia- far more in my opinion than any other of her contemporaries. Her makeover has been shallow - one about creating a fashion icon and being the best rep of the DRF as the latest book describes.

The best representative of the DRF is Queen Margrethe- she does a good job for Denmark and being a fashion icon is not what being a royal is about. Unfortunately a lot of people around these boards today tend to only focus on appearance, effectively a celebrity status.

If the Danes want someone like that, that is OK for them but I suspect she will have to a lot more to do to catch up with Queen Ingrid- the difference being of course she was a true royal and a classy queen consort to a talented king.
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  #182  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:30 AM
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Some posts say more about the poster than the person they are posting about.
You obviously don't know much about Mary's work or what is going on in Denmark.
And I agree: Unfortunately a lot of people around these boards today tend to only focus on appearance - including you.
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  #183  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
Some posts say more about the poster than the person they are posting about.
You obviously don't know much about Mary's work or what is going on in Denmark.
And I agree: Unfortunately a lot of people around these boards today tend to only focus on appearance - including you.
You have no idea what my knowledge is nor do I have any idea what yours is so I would never hint at anything personal as you have just done. In fact you are completely wrong a fashion icon is not my desire for any of my royals. Please read the posts perhaps more than once if you wish to comment accurately.

We all know what Mary does- albeit more than her husband but her makeover is what is being currently promoted.

This is my opinion and if I disagree with you or others than that is OK too- I would not criticise you for liking Mary - that is your choice and right.
  #184  
Old 10-31-2006, 11:44 AM
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I think you did not understand my post.
I did not mean that a fashion icon is your desire but that
Mary's makeover obviously prevents you from seeing that part of her work that is not related to fashion.

And your posts give me an idea what your knowledge is.
For example, with your remark that Mary does more than her husband you again showed to me
that you don't know much about the Danish CP couple.
Because if you would really count their engagements you would actually find
that they do approximately the same amount of work

If you are referring to the book "A Princess with Style":
Mary is not responsible for books that are written about her and therefore I would hardly call it "promotion".

I personally like Mary because I think she is a good representative for Denmark and Danish fashion.
(Design is important in Denmark and for Danish economy, like it or not.)
Mary is willing to do what is best for her country and not only best for her own image.
(IMO it must have been quite clear to her that these "shallow"/"just a fashion icon"-accusations
would come up sooner or later, as they did in Princess Diana's case.)
But most important, it seems to me that from the beginning Mary has taken her role very seriously
and she worked more than others did in their first 2 1/2 years as (crown)princesses.
(And I say this after I have had a good look at their agendas and without the intention to put anyone down.
I say it because it's simply a fact.)

I don't have problems with persons who dislike Mary (I too like and dislike people out of no special reason)
but I do have a problem with persons who dislike her on the basis of prejudice and ignorance.
And I have a problem when these prejudices are constantly repeated.

Quote:
You have no idea what my knowledge is nor do I have any idea what yours is ....We all know what Mary does
You are contradicting yourself.
  #185  
Old 10-31-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
You have no idea what my knowledge is nor do I have any idea what yours is so I would never hint at anything personal as you have just done. In fact you are completely wrong a fashion icon is not my desire for any of my royals. Please read the posts perhaps more than once if you wish to comment accurately.

We all know what Mary does- albeit more than her husband but her makeover is what is being currently promoted.

This is my opinion and if I disagree with you or others than that is OK too- I would not criticise you for liking Mary - that is your choice and right.
Don't worry, juliana. It seems that there are a large proportion of Mary's fans who cannot help but be personal towards those who aren't enamourred by the princess.

You just have to ignore it.
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  #186  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
Some posts say more about the poster than the person they are posting about.
You obviously don't know much about Mary's work or what is going on in Denmark.
And I agree: Unfortunately a lot of people around these boards today tend to only focus on appearance - including you.
i think some of us focus on her appearance because that's the only thing we see. i agree mary dresses lovely, but what i see of her most of the time is a quite superficial mary. just judging by mary's events, most of them are quite 'silly' events in my opinion: the two 'baptises' of the 'crown princess' flowers', the fashion fairs and catwalks to which she attends, those 3 magazines for which she posed, the recent trip to london with caroline, etc are some examples of this. you don't really need a lot of knowledge to baptise your flower and i doubt that will increase denmark's economy. going to a conference on human rights, going on an official visit as un ambassador, making an interesting and consistent speech on why are global economics helping emerging economies success... that includes work, research, commitment and is an activity more suitable for a royal in my opinion.

this doesn't only apply to mary. there are some other royals whose activities are quite 'mild' in my opinion. these activities don't promote the country or help with international relations but in my opinion are a way of giving an image on royals as individuals rather on what they should be doing to fulfill their roles.
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  #187  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
Don't worry, juliana. It seems that there are a large proportion of Mary's fans who cannot help but be personal towards those who aren't enamourred by the princess.

You just have to ignore it.
While it is okay to ignore postings that are offensive I hope noone ignores postings in which it is not only pointed out but proven that mere opinions are okay but personally insulting remarks or opinions are not good style.
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  #188  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
You have no idea what my knowledge is nor do I have any idea what yours is so I would never hint at anything personal as you have just done. In fact you are completely wrong a fashion icon is not my desire for any of my royals. Please read the posts perhaps more than once if you wish to comment accurately.

We all know what Mary does- albeit more than her husband but her makeover is what is being currently promoted.

This is my opinion and if I disagree with you or others than that is OK too- I would not criticise you for liking Mary - that is your choice and right.
Well, people might tend to focus on the fashion as that is the only thing that they can reliably comment on. None of us (or an miniscule number of us) have had the opportunity to meet, and converse with the Princess, so in order to keep their comments within something that can be commented on, without making assumptions, they speak of her fashion sense.

Having said that, please bear in mind that the photos that are being discussed, re fashion, are taken at the events that she attends, and therefore those causes are getting attention as well, and being promoted.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. We none of us can comment on a persons inner self until we know them very well! I would make the assumption that most of us on this board do not know the princess well enough to make any decisions on her character.

If we as the public decide to make comments on her fashion, that is of no fault of her own, and does not in any way detract from the causes that she supports, the good that she does, or the person that she is.

And I applaud those who confine their comments to something that they can see and offer their opinion on rather than making assumptions of others peoples personalities, based on what the public says about their fashion sense. Something which I might add, the princess has ABSOLUTELY no control over.
  #189  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:27 PM
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Goodness! How long are we going to hold that photo spread/interview against Mary?! Its been four years...can we move on? Is Mary going to be celebrating her 10th, 20th, heck 25th Wedding anniversary and are we still going to be talking about that article?

I think Mary is doing a good job as Crown Princess..and honestly...if you look at her engagement schedule...you can tell that she is just not doing superficial engagements. I think there is a decent mix of all the organizations that she supports. And I agree with Empress about how her engagements are publicized by the media. She shouldn't be blamed that they are goign to put tons of focus on her attending a fashion show vs. visting sick children in the hospital, etc. Unfortunately for all of us...shallow sells over good deeds.

I can also see where some members think she comes across as cold, phony...but really those are just impressions that some of us get via images that are snapped with seconds and videos that don't follow her 24/7. From what I see of her personality...she doesn't seem warm to me either...but really..I don't know her. I don't spend time with her therefore I don't think I can fully judge her personaltiy. For all we know, behind closed doors Mary could be the biggest jokester around with the warmest personality. She could be like Maxima behind closed doors.

Sorry, Carlota...my comments are not directed just towards you...as others have mentioned it before as well.
  #190  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:28 PM
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In the last several weeks, Mary has attended an International Nursing Conference in Copenhagen, represented Denmark with Frederik in St. Petersburg, Russia for the reburial of Empress Maria, and went on a solo trip to Prague. Her visit to Vollsmose was appreciated and successful, and she attended a World Health Organization conference in September.

She has only been Crown Princess for 2 1/2 years not 4 or 5 years. In that time she has also become a new mother and has another child on the way. She's doing as good a job as anyone in her position could be expected to do. She has won the love and trust of the people of Denmark. So what if she attends fashions shows or baptises a flower? Sounds like nit-picking to me.
  #191  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota
you don't really need a lot of knowledge to baptise your flower and i doubt that will increase denmark's economy. going to a conference on human rights, going on an official visit as un ambassador, making an interesting and consistent speech on why are global economics helping emerging economies success... that includes work, research, commitment and is an activity more suitable for a royal in my opinion.
Hm, I for one contacted Poulsen for a "Kronprinsesse Mary"-rose and while they don't have a German importer for it yet, they wrote to me saying they have gotten quite some responses from German gardeners and garden centers, that they are negociating and they will tell me where to get a container-rose close to my home next spring. So it does help with their business, in fact!

As for the topics: first of all Mary had to fit in. Fred is doing sports, Joachim business, Alexandra human rights and humanitarian help international. I'm convinced Mary did not want to upstage or replace Joachim or Alexandra, knowing about their difficult situation with the divorce and the creating of a new place for Alexandra.

Mary is a trained lawyer and PR-pro. She can do anything. At the moment she concentrates on the more "female" aspects of her role as "consort", something which is a field left open for quite a long time as there was no female consort for a long, long time and a field the more artistically interested queen Margrethe is not so keen on doing. There simply was an open space for Mary. Maxima the former banker and now princess of a country that is famous for it's business interests in the world can of course start to represent "The Netherlands" and their banking politics in an international and going-out-to-help-the-poor- approach because there was no Royal there before she came on the scene and took over.

But the important topics for Denmark (refugee work etc). were already taken care of, so only some health topics (immunization comes to mind) and promoting Denmark as tourist destination (very important here in Germany or Czech republic!) and as home of international fashion was there waiting for this princess to take over.

But - I think when it comes down to be honest: there are some members who like the princess, there are some who want to be fair and there are some who don't like her and will do all to diminish her, even though the Danes (who are the only ones whose opinion really counts) in their majority enjoy having Mary as a CP.
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #192  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:47 PM
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there's nothing wrong in baptising a flower. but in my opinion, royals who do more 'challenging' activities deserve more credit and show a lot more of their own personality if they make an intelligent speech, like maxima, mathilde or rania at world conferences or visit a country in need, like maxima, mathilde, mette marit.... that's why we have several 'elements' to build an opinion about them: we can see how they dress and how they behave in different situations, etc and we have an ampler view of that individual. this is a comment that is directly linked to show why people see the 'fashion' side of mary so much.

zonk, no problem. :)
i think however that the media has nothing to do with the focus they give to some events. for us, royal watchers, all the events count as the same as we practically get the same ammount of information and photos because of out highly dedicated members who try to find photos to share with us here and there. i doubt anyone of us gives more attention to a fashion event than to one of the mental foundation.
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  #193  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Hm, I for one contacted Poulsen for a "Kronprinsesse Mary"-rose and while they don't have a German importer for it yet, they wrote to me saying they have gotten quite some responses from German gardeners and garden centers, that they are negociating and they will tell me where to get a container-rose close to my home next spring. So it does help with their business, in fact!

As for the topics: first of all Mary had to fit in. Fred is doing sports, Joachim business, Alexandra human rights and humanitarian help international. I'm convinced Mary did not want to upstage or replace Joachim or Alexandra, knowing about their difficult situation with the divorce and the creating of a new place for Alexandra.

Mary is a trained lawyer and PR-pro. She can do anything. At the moment she concentrates on the more "female" aspects of her role as "consort", something which is a field left open for quite a long time as there was no female consort for a long, long time and a field the more artistically interested queen Margrethe is not so keen on doing. There simply was an open space for Mary. Maxima the former banker and now princess of a country that is famous for it's business interests in the world can of course start to represent "The Netherlands" and their banking politics in an international and going-out-to-help-the-poor- approach because there was no Royal there before she came on the scene and took over.

But the important topics for Denmark (refugee work etc). were already taken care of, so only some health topics (immunization comes to mind) and promoting Denmark as tourist destination (very important here in Germany or Czech republic!) and as home of international fashion was there waiting for this princess to take over.

But - I think when it comes down to be honest: there are some members who like the princess, there are some who want to be fair and there are some who don't like her and will do all to diminish her, even though the Danes (who are the only ones whose opinion really counts) in their majority enjoy having Mary as a CP.
you mentioned some good points in your post, jo of palatine.

however, i must say that i doubt mary dislikes going to catwalks and doing that 'female role' you mentioned. she seems quite interested in fashion and if she didn't like going to fashion fairs or if she thought it was damaging her image, i'm most certain she would have told so to the protocol advisors in order to reduce those events. so it's not really a problem of 'fashion needs to be covered by someone'. there are so many issues that are not covered and nobody complaints about those.

it's also a paradox to support danish fashion at fairs, but then dressing in prada. it's the same as if frederik supported sports but never was seen practising one or if alexandra supported humanitarian causes and then was seen buying a product that involves children working on it, as it unfortunately happens in many places in the world.

i will take out then my statement of the roses: apparently is was a huge success for the company! (and hope you will get your flowers soon :) )
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  #194  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:59 PM
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And I would assume that you have looked at all of Mary's speeches, read them thoroughly and are basing your judgement on that? I for one have not. But what I have read has made me like her even more.

And, by the way, I am a GREAT proponent of Maxima's given that the Netherlands is my adopted country. And I think that what she does is great. But bear in mind that she has had more time in her role than Mary, and also, she as well as Mette Marit and Mathilde were filling shoes that no one had filled in quite some time, have all had ample time to build up their public profile, and also started with VERY SMALL engagements.

Mary on the other hand came into a situation where Alexandra had already been established for some time, there was an active "Princess Presence" in Denmark, and so has taken the time to gradually build up her public profile, while not taking away from Alexandra.

I think you should give her a chance.
  #195  
Old 10-31-2006, 01:12 PM
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dear carlota, some of Mary's "silly" events in the last months:

Sept 9
Circus Benneweis gala performance for the Danish Association of Mental Health

Sept 11
WHO conference + reception
Mary gave a speech

Sept 12
Interior and Health Ministers reception in connection with WHO conference

Sept 21-22
Visit in Prague

Sept 23
Comemoriation of Tsarina Dagmar, Denmark

Sept 24
The Crown Prince couple's Culture Prize
Mary gave a speech in Danish, at least it was supposed to be Danish

Sept 27-28
Reburial of Empress Dagmar in Russia

October 3
The Reigning Couple, TRH The Crown Prince, HRH Prince Joachim and HRH Princess Benedikte attend the opening assembly of the Folketinget (i.e. the Danish parliament) at 12.00.

October 3
The Reigning Couple host a concert and supper for representatives of Danish business life at Fredensborg Palace at 19.30. TRH The Crown Prince Couple will also be present.

October 4
HRH The Crown Princess visits the Children’s House of Fredensholm in Copenhagen at 10.30.

October 6
HRH The Crown Princess accepts a donation for the Danish Mental Health Fund from LEGO. Her Royal Highness does so in the role of patron, and the money donated will go to the Danish Mental Health Fund’s projects for children and teenagers. The presentation of the donation takes place in Legoland, Billund at 13.00.


October 9
HM The Queen and HRH The Crown Princess attend an international meeting of fashion historians at Vartorv, Copenhagen at 09.30.

October 10
HRH The Crown Princess is present, in the role of patron, at the “World Mental Health Day” at the city hall of Frederiksberg at 19.00.

October 11
TRH The Crown Prince Couple receive wedding motets from the days of Frederik II at the Royal Library, Copenhagen, at 16.00.

October 12
HRH The Crown Princess attends the inauguration of the Anker Fjord Hospice at Ringkøbing Fjord at 14.00.

Most of the patients in this hospice are dying of cancer. An easy task indeed.

October 17
HRH The Crown Princess is present at the opening of a new centre of design and inspiration, Kopenhagen Studio, at Langelinie, Copenhagen, at 16.00.

October 25
The Reigning Couple, TRH The Crown Prince Couple and TRH Prince Joachim and Princess Benedikte attend an evening party for the Government and Parliament at Christiansborg Palace at 20.00.

October 26
HRH The Crown Princess is present at the opening of the nursing convention “Collaborative Research Models: Improving Patient Outcomes” at Hotel Marriot in Copenhagen at 09.15.

October 30
HRH The Crown Princess is present at the presentation of the Christmas Seal 2006 in Tivoli at 12.55. Her Royal Highness attends the event in the role of patron of the Danish Christmas Seal.

And some of her "silly" events in the near future:

November 1
HRH The Crown Princess presents the awards to the winners of a drawing competition arranged by the Danish Refugee Council on the occasion of the 50th anniversary. Her Royal Highness does so in the role of patron at 13.00.

November 6
Visit to EU institutions
The Crown Prince Couple make a visit to EU institutions in Brussels

November 7
Heart Association Research Conference about women and heart disease

November 9
Lunch for the Czech President
HRH The Crown Princess takes part in HM The Queen's luncheon for the Czech President, at Fredensborg

I agree some events do not need as much preparations and work as others and some are more important than others.
But if you only focus on those which are "mild" I cannot help you.
IMO Mary is definitely working for the best of her country.
  #196  
Old 10-31-2006, 01:17 PM
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hear hear! I suppose that there will always be those that only want to focus on what they might perceive as negative.
  #197  
Old 10-31-2006, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
While it is okay to ignore postings that are offensive I hope noone ignores postings in which it is not only pointed out but proven that mere opinions are okay but personally insulting remarks or opinions are not good style.
Oh, I agree. Hence the fact that I enjoy your posts, regardless of the fact I disagree with them on this topic.
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  #198  
Old 10-31-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
While it is okay to ignore postings that are offensive I hope noone ignores postings in which it is not only pointed out but proven that mere opinions are okay but personally insulting remarks or opinions are not good style.
Yea for that! I think that we are all entitled to our opinions, but we are all adults and can phrase them in ways that are not offensive to others.

Well said Jo!
  #199  
Old 10-31-2006, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
As for the topics: first of all Mary had to fit in. Fred is doing sports, Joachim business, Alexandra human rights and humanitarian help international. I'm convinced Mary did not want to upstage or replace Joachim or Alexandra, knowing about their difficult situation with the divorce and the creating of a new place for Alexandra.
Or perhaps, as others have suggested she just doesn't have an area she's interested in. Unlike Alex who is passionate about her humans right work, I've never had the impression Mary was particularly enthusiastic about any of her patronages, with the exception of CIFF and her support for the Danish heart fund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Mary is a trained lawyer and PR-pro.
Mary is not a lwayer, she is merely a law graudate. She hasn't done the Bar or completed her Articles, which would qualify her as a barrister or solicitor.
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  #200  
Old 10-31-2006, 02:00 PM
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Well, I am sure that we can all agree that she is well educated. And I think that, given time, she will have more and more opportunities to become more involved in more causes.

Also, you never know, she might just not be one of those people who wear their heart on their sleeve.
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