Discussion About CP Frederik's and CP Mary's Prenuptial Agreement

[Lady Bluffton]

I find $15M (USD) as the net worth of the Danish royal family hard to believe. Some "regular" people are worth far more than that. Hard to believe that ten generations or more of Danish royals haven't had the foresight to make investments that just generate interest income without ever touching the corpus.

Also, isn't it possible that CP Fred inherited some legacy from his French grandparents???

$15M USD is nothing these days for people of this social stature.

[Tricota]

Originally Posted by seto

Did they publish the first prenuptial agreement.?

They did. Both Joachim & Alexandras and Frederik and Mary's are public.
Except for the names they are prettymuch the same. That was before the change.

As someone has mentioned the Danish Royal Family is rediculesly poor. Especially compared to other royal families. They own almost no propety, Shakenborg ,Marselisborg and Château de Cayx excluded. The apanage is about 8.6 million euros to the queen, of which she pays 10 % to Henrik and 1.5 % to Princess Benedikte. Out of this she has to pay for her household, interior maitenence on all royal propety, personal staff in royal houses and whatever private needs she has. So as anyone can see, the Royal Family arent exactly swiming in money. And the only one making money is Joachim, though not much.

Prince Joachim almost bankrupted the family twice, once with the weding and again with the divorce. No doubt a potential devorce between the CP couple would be much worse for the family. Not only would it be bigger and more expencive, Frederik also doesnt have anything of real value like personal real estate or a company like Joachim did. So the money would come from the main source, the Royal family. And it could possibly brake it financially, something noone is interested in. So there is no doubt in my mind that Mary was under great pressuere to sign a new pre-nup. Not only from the Royal Family, but perhaps also from other figures inside the government.

The real question is of couse, what has she be promised in return? No doubt some deal has been made. Perhaps a private arrangement with the government or one of the Royal Families benefactors? Or perhaps a promise by the queen herself that she would not stay on the throne for life, but step down within a few years...

No doubt a devorce would be less likely then, and at the very least a devorced queen is better then a devorced princess...

Being the mother of the former CP doesnt give Mary any special deal as such, though im sure the parliament would quickly make sure she got on the civil list...

[Tricota]

Originally Posted by Lady Bluffton

I find $15M (USD) as the net worth of the Danish royal family hard to believe. Some "regular" people are worth far more than that. Hard to believe that ten generations or more of Danish royals haven't had the foresight to make investments that just generate interest income without ever touching the corpus.

Also, isn't it possible that CP Fred inherited some legacy from his French grandparents???

$15M USD is nothing these days for people of this social stature.

From everything I have heard and read over the years it sounds pretty high. Remember they dont own anything and has never really been rich.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by Tricota

They did. Both Joachim & Alexandras and Frederik and Mary's are public.
Except for the names they are prettymuch the same. That was before the change.

As someone has mentioned the Danish Royal Family is rediculesly poor. Especially compared to other royal families. They own almost no propety, Shakenborg ,Marselisborg and Château de Cayx excluded. The apanage is about 8.6 million euros to the queen, of which she pays 10 % to Henrik and 1.5 % to Princess Benedikte. Out of this she has to pay for her household, interior maitenence on all royal propety, personal staff in royal houses and whatever private needs she has. So as anyone can see, the Royal Family arent exactly swiming in money. And the only one making money is Joachim, though not much.

Prince Joachim almost bankrupted the family twice, once with the weding and again with the divorce. No doubt a potential devorce between the CP couple would be much worse for the family. Not only would it be bigger and more expencive, Frederik also doesnt have anything of real value like personal real estate or a company like Joachim did. So the money would come from the main source, the Royal family. And it could possibly brake it financially, something noone is interested in. So there is no doubt in my mind that Mary was under great pressuere to sign a new pre-nup. Not only from the Royal Family, but perhaps also from other figures inside the government.

The real question is of couse, what has she be promised in return? No doubt some deal has been made. Perhaps a private arrangement with the government or one of the Royal Families benefactors? Or perhaps a promise by the queen herself that she would not stay on the throne for life, but step down within a few years...

No doubt a devorce would be less likely then, and at the very least a devorced queen is better then a devorced princess...

Being the mother of the former CP doesnt give Mary any special deal as such, though im sure the parliament would quickly make sure she got on the civil list...

Is it possible that Alex receiving an allowance in her own right, also prompted this?

[Tricota]

Originally Posted by norwegianne

Is it possible that Alex receiving an allowance in her own right, also prompted this?

Very possible. There is no way they would not give grant her her own apanage if they devorced, as the Mother of Christian and "mini me", and they are perhaps trying to ease the burden on the RF's money that way... But my guess is still that there is some sought of verbal agreement we dont know anything about...

[Laviollette]

When might they reduce Alexandra's allowance? If they can make Mary sign a post nuptial agreement, can't they renegotiate the terms of Alexandra's divorce settlement?

[avrilo]

An article in hola

http://www.hola.com/casasreales/2006...ry-contrato-2/

[Tricota]

Originally Posted by Laviollette

When might they reduce Alexandra's allowance? If they can make Mary sign a post nuptial agreement, can't they renegotiate the terms of Alexandra's divorce settlement?

The settlement is done, and cant be changed. In that she was granted a house and a one time sum of money. The same goes with the child support.

But the bulk of her income is from the apanage granted by the parlament. (1.8 million dkr and a driver i believe) This is granted for life and independent of her re-marrying. As a royal however she does not pay tax and VAT, something she would have to do if she got married. But the divorce settlement itself is done.

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by Tricota

The settlement is done, and cant be changed. In that she was granted a house and a one time sum of money. The same goes with the child support.

But the bulk of her income is from the apanage granted by the parlament. (1.8 million dkr and a driver i believe) This is granted for life and independent of her re-marrying. As a royal however she does not pay tax and VAT, something she would have to do if she got married. But the divorce settlement itself is done.

Very interesting, all this. According to Hello Magazine, Alexandra's divorce nearly bankrupted poor Joachim, who was forced to sell that lovely old inn he's running in the village he's living in, in order to pay for Alexandra's little city palace. Looks like he's got the wrong end of the stick here indeed. No wonder he's careful with women nowadays..

On topic, what I don't understand is this: at the time they were preparing Mary and Fred's prenup, that was aroundthe same time Alex and Joachim were (still secretly, as they didn't want this to interfere with the wedding in 2004) preparing the divorce, including purchasing Alex's current house.

what I don't get is, why, considering it should have been clear around that time already, that Joachim was forced to sell the inn to finance his divorce, why oh why didn't they then already include the paragraph that they now, two years after the wedding, are changing re. Fred and Mary? Why didn't they think of it then?

By the by, the family must have realized what a plum deal Alex got with the divorce: you go and marry a prince, and ten years on, you divorce him, get a free house, a million krone a year for showing up somewhere with a bunch of flowers in your hand, on, oh, a monthly basis or so. Don't get me wrong, I have a thing for stylish Alex, but I can totally see how it's now become clear to the DRF that this is and expensive proposition NOT to be repeated. But again, why didn't they see that two years ago? I'm puzzled..

[Laviollette]

Originally Posted by Tricota

But the bulk of her income is from the apanage granted by the parlament. (1.8 million dkr and a driver i believe) This is granted for life and independent of her re-marrying.

Why? And can't the government say we're not going to pay her for being an ex-wife of the prince? I know it won't affect Joachim's personal finances but why is Alexandra getting a government check along with alimony, child support and a mansion from her ex-husband?

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by norwegianne

Is it possible that Alex receiving an allowance in her own right, also prompted this?

You may well be right, but the question remains: why coulnd't they have thought of this in 2004, when Joachim and Alex were in the midst of figuring out their divorce?

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by princess olga

You may well be right, but the question remains: why coulnd't they have thought of this in 2004, when Joachim and Alex were in the midst of figuring out their divorce?

Hindsight can be a good thing. How else do we learn?

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Hindsight can be a good thing. How else do we learn?

I agree with that, but the impending divorce in 2004 of J and A, in fact <gave> them this hindsight! As they were preparing the prenup, Joachim and Alexandra's union wasn't only washed up already, their divorce settlement was being worked out in all likelyhood at the same time as the prenup!

[amina1]

Originally Posted by princess olga

You may well be right, but the question remains: why coulnd't they have thought of this in 2004, when Joachim and Alex were in the midst of figuring out their divorce?

Ya, I was wondering about that too, it does sound strange 'Why Now"
At least if they were careful enough not to leak any of this, it will give a headache to Marry, I guess it's good that she on Holiday right now

[niki]

I can't see how the royal family is poor. Isn't Mary's closet loaded with beautiful designer clothes, and accessories? Just wondering how Fred's income can afford all that but it can't afford to pay her what was agreed upon in the first pre-nup?

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by princess olga

I agree with that, but the impending divorce in 2004 of J and A, in fact <gave> them this hindsight! As they were preparing the prenup, Joachim and Alexandra's union wasn't only washed up already, their divorce settlement was being worked out in all likelyhood at the same time as the prenup!

I 'see' what yor saying, princess olga.

Of course I'm in no position to give an answer which represents the Royal Family's reasoning and approach towards the Crown Princely pre-nup.

Keeping in mind their divorce settlement was contracted some 9-10 years prior and at the time of their seperation, Mary and Frederik had already been married a little over 5 months (J & A divorcing some 7 moths later).

Who is to say that at the time of the wedding, the pre-nup had already been brought into question? We are not aware if that is so as we are not aware if they had infact (again, at the time of the wedding) decided upon mutual seperation at that stage.

Didn't Princess Alexandra reside at an apartment in Amalienborg after the seperation? There are, I think, 'sings' showing that the pre-nup was being reviewed during the seperation and not before.

You only really know the consequences of a pre-nup after its been enforced, and that is why I think its perfectly likely (not saying this is what happend) that the changes have only, now, been amended for the Crown Princely couple. Mind you, I see these changes as firm recognition of Mary's position within the family.

Just my take on it of course

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by niki

I can't see how the royal family is poor. Isn't Mary's closet loaded with beautiful designer clothes, and accessories? Just wondering how Fred's income can afford all that but it can't afford to pay her what was agreed upon in the first pre-nup?

As are the closets of many Princesses I'm positive and no one has claimed that the DRF are "poor", because they certainly aren't. They have, however, learnt from an experience and are taking precautions (and that is all they are) that seem to me, reasonable and appropriate

[biboquinhas]

Yes it seams reasonable but I also think that they could have done this before in the first prenup.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by niki

I can't see how the royal family is poor. Isn't Mary's closet loaded with beautiful designer clothes, and accessories? Just wondering how Fred's income can afford all that but it can't afford to pay her what was agreed upon in the first pre-nup?

When it it talked about the DRF being poor, one talks about their personal assets. Mary's clothes are being paid by the yearly amount Frederik gets from the state.

Frederik got 15.135.828 DKK as an allowance last year. Out of this: 4.133.677 was for his personal needs - with 10% of the original sum to Mary. Staff costs were 8.198.331 DKK, running the court 2.397.693, administrative costs 564.656 & property costs: 616.600 dkk (They live for free, and the exterior is covered by the state, but the interior both at Amalienborg & Kancellihuset is their responsibility, including heat and electricity) As there was a deficit of -775.129 DKK, it was covered by the Crown Prince, which means that the actual sum for personal needs was around 3.3 mil DKK (about 1.5 of which went to Mary).

While it is plenty, for regular living, it wouldn't be enough to buy Mary a new house, and support her financially.

http://download.tdconline.dk/pub/kon...set_aars05.pdf - Last year's financial raport from the Royal house Fascinating read, really, if you read Danish and/or understand numbers.

Should Frederik die before Mary, while they're still Crown Prince and Princess, she would get a yearly basic sum of 6.387.500 DKK (to be increased with inflation) and housing from the State, according to the law about Frederik's yearly sum: http://www.retsinfo.dk/_LINK_0/0&ACCN/A20040032230

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by Laviollette

Why? And can't the government say we're not going to pay her for being an ex-wife of the prince? I know it won't affect Joachim's personal finances but why is Alexandra getting a government check along with alimony, child support and a mansion from her ex-husband?

Officially Alexandra gets the money from the government
because it was said she would continue her work.
But this year she only had max. 30 engagements
(and I was generous and counted those activities which were not on the official calendar too)
which is faaaar less than any of the other RF members had.
I don't care much about what was/is going on between Joachim and Alexandra
and how much he has to pay for her and their children.
But I think it's a real scandal that Alexandra gets money from the state (i.e. Danish taxpayer)
and works so little for it.
IMO she has successfully fooled the Danes.

Regarding the changes of M&F's pre-nup contract
I would say the press made too much of it.
And I can't quite see how Mary could have been forced to give up her rights.
IMO she agreed to sign because she saw how noble the DRF handled the A&J divorce.
And it is quite obvious that the wife of a future king and mother of a future king
will never be treated worse than the wife of the second son.
In case of divorce she might very well end up in one of the 4 Amalienborg palaces
while Frederik stays in another one.
But something tells me they will never divorce.