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  #21  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S
And not especially intelligent either, IMO. I think her capacity is quite average, as is Mette Maritīs, or Angelina Jolieīs, to be honest. None of them has a previous preparation that justifies this kind of distinction. I donīt know very much about Maxima career before getting married, but a first sight she would look as the only one of the current CPīs that has a previous adequate background, and still I donīt think they have chosen her for her career.

Itīs pretty obvious to me that Mary and Mette Marit wouldnīt have that position if they werenīt princesses. I donīt think they arenīt intelligent, but the world is full of more intelligent women who arenīt part of this WEF.

I think itīs good for Denmark that sheīs going to there and I donīt find it surprising, but I understand the point of view of those who says she isnt accomplished enough
But if this forum had only accomplished enough members, we would never hear of it.
I'm not sure what you base your opinion that she is not especially intelligent on. She studied difficult subjects and had her own career in marketing and sales which it appears she achieved on her own. She also learned Danish incredibly well and quickly and has never put a foot wrong which means she has some instinct for PR as well.
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  #22  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Maxima studied at Northlands School in Argentina and worked as an investment banker before graduating with a degree in Economics from the Universidad Católica Argentina in 1995. She subsequently worked for large international finance companies in Argentina, New York and Europe. Looks pretty much the same background as Mary's.
It can be. As I said, I donīt know very much about Maximaīs career.
But for me, at first sight her work for large international companies at NY and Europe seems a little more impresive that Maryīs jobs.

And I keep my opinion. I do think they are intelligent, I didnīt say the contrary. But the reasons for they being at WEF are that theyīre princesses, her respective backgrounds wouldnīt be enough if they werenīt.
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  #23  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:50 PM
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My impression is there are A LOT of people at Davos who wouldn't be there if participation was based only on gravitas. The Young Global Leaders subset, especially, seems to attach significant weight to factors other than personal accomplishment - factors like wealth, social standing, connections, etc.

If Mary Donaldson from Australia had worked equally hard on the same issues Crown Princess Mary of Denmark has spent time on for the last several years would she be invited to Davos? Probably not. That's not necessarily a bad thing, IMO; some people are leaders because of their knowledge and experience, some because of their wealth, some, (like Mary and other royals), because of their social position. Is it entirely fair that Mary has access to power and leadership opportunities just because of the family she married into? No, no more than it's fair that her husband has access to the same things because of a random accident of birth. But I can't imagine making it past childhood expecting life to be fair, and IMO, if a person is in a position where they've been handed opportunities to make a difference in the world they have a responsibility to take advantage of those opportunities.
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  #24  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I'm not sure what you base your opinion that she is not especially intelligent on. She studied difficult subjects and had her own career in marketing and sales which it appears she achieved on her own. She also learned Danish incredibly well and quickly and has never put a foot wrong which means she has some instinct for PR as well.
"Not especially intelligent for that position" maybe were the words I should have used. I donīt doubt the difficulty of her career nor her capacities.
But as I said before, the world is plenty of Law, Marketing and similarīs graduates, and not many of them work for this organitation.

I repeat: I donīt see anything wrong with her going to this forum, I think itīs ok and a good promotion for Denmark. But I canīt see the amazing preparation and intelligency that according to some make her so appropiate for the position, other thatn her CPīs title.
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2013, 07:46 PM
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Would Mary Donaldson's words carry much weight should she go to Davos as a commoner? No.
Nor would Maxima or Mette Marit, had they still been commoners.

However, in order to accomplish anything, to get some influence and to get the message across you have to have something between the ears. That is a necessity - or you might just as well take a nap in the corner. And worse; you'll do more damage than good.

Mary, Maxima and Mette-Marit are in the interesting position that they are personal friends and that they can co-operate and complement each other. They are a good team and it's pretty rare that royals team up.
I think that's the light in which we should view this.
A royal carry extra weight simply because of his/her position and connections and especially in regards to getting attention. - Never discount the glamour factor.
Three royals ganging up carry a lot of weight! One Crown Princess can be pushed aside, three Crown Princesses is a little bit harder to pull around by the nose.

And anything is better than nothing. I can't say how much difference Mary (or Maxima and Mette-Marit) will make in this respect but at least they are doing something, they are trying to make a difference. That alone I think is commendable.
They could have chosen to involve themselves in less complicated and potentially political hot subjects - they don't.

Finally, I have full confidence in Mary's abillities and intelligence. Not because I personally respect her very much, but because the Danish Foreign Ministry would have advised (read: stopped) her against getting involved in this, had they not believed she has enough gravitas.
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  #26  
Old 01-20-2013, 07:55 PM
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I personally think Catherine, Mary, Mette Marit, Letizia, Victoria and Maxima have the strength, brains and influence to help change their communities, country and even the world.

I would love to see these women get together and work on projects.
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  #27  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:17 PM
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I personally think Catherine, Mary, Mette Marit, Letizia, Victoria and Maxima have the strength, brains and influence to help change their communities, country and even the world.

I would love to see these women get together and work on projects.
What kind of influence do the aforementioned royal ladies have? They are expected to fulfill their responsibilities in accordance with the limits set by their countries' governments. As for changing the world, it is better to let well enough alone.
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:53 PM
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Well said Muhler, I agree. I believe if you have the ability to do something; anything (whether you're an average person, a crown princess or king or queen) about the state of the world, you should. It is never wrong to try IMO. In fact, I fault those who sit around and expect others to do all the caring about those less fortunate.
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Itīs pretty obvious to me that Mary and Mette Marit wouldnīt have that position if they werenīt princesses.
Isn't that something you could say about everybody?

I'm sure Angelina Jolie wouldn't have that position if she wasn't an actress, and so on.

It seems to me that Mary is there as the founder of the Mary Foundation (and of course because she's an attractive, sensible figurehead and all that).

And by the way - I think the Danish Royals should keem their noses out of those forums. Nothing but trouble can come of it.
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
But if this forum had only accomplished enough members, we would never hear of it.
What did you mean by this?
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  #31  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
The Forum of Young Global Leaders:
"Young Global Leaders represent the future of leadership, coming from all regions of the world and representing business, government, civil society, arts & culture, academia and media, as well as social entrepreneurs"

Sounds very much like The Mary Foundation to me...
i have to disagree. to me, social entrepreneurs are, on a grand scale, muhammad yunus, and on a less "mediatic and well-known" scale (but not less admirable) the stanford grads who have created a low cost incubator for babies in developing countries, for example.
i don't think getting funding because of your husband's position and starting an association can count as entrepreneurship. it's of course social, but lacks the amount of effort that entrepreneurship requires and diminishes the work done by real entrepreneurs and the effort they put into their services and products. to continue with my example, the incubator was made by stanford MBA grads, who not only initially had to prove their worth to go to stanford, but also come up with a great idea and work hard to position their product.
i am not trying to diminish the work done by the mary foundation, which is of course very valuable. however, i think comparing the mary foundation to another private initiatives, started by people who didn't have a voice and who gained it because of their hard work, vision and leadership is somewhat reducing their accomplishments.
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina
. As for changing the world, it is better to let well enough alone.
That's very cynical. I much prefer Martin Luther King Jr.'s take on serving the world and doing the right thing.

"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way."
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:25 PM
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As for changing the world, it is better to let well enough alone.
What a terribly depressing point of view. Its a wonder mankind ever progressed from living in caves.

If the Forum organizers felt she was worthy of an invitation I have no problem with Mary or anyone else being there.
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  #34  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
And not especially intelligent either ...
What do you even mean by that? Have you personally IQ tested Mary since you can say with such certainty that she isn't very intelligent?

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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Itīs pretty obvious to me that Mary and Mette Marit wouldnīt have that position if they werenīt princesses. I donīt think they arenīt intelligent, but the world is full of more intelligent women who arenīt part of this WEF.
George Clooney wouldn't be the very influential person he is today if he wasn't an actor. I doubt most well-known people would be as influential as they are without being well-known.

I agree with several other posters, if Mary is good enough for the organizers and creators (whatever such people are called) of WEF, what is the problem?
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  #35  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:48 PM
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nwinther
And by the way - I think the Danish Royals should keem their noses out of those forums. Nothing but trouble can come of it.
I totally agree. Since Mary was nominated a Young Global Leader I think it's just polite to attend an annual meeting once. But I hope she won't involve herself as much as the Norwegian CP couple.

The WEF was once described as the meeting of "fat cats in the snow" (assuring each other how important they are). And Mary - as the wife of a future king - certainly is a "fat cat", so of course she has every right to be there.
But please, Mary, don't spend too much time on something that has the air of elitarism (which is totally against Danish mentality, I was told) and inefficiency. And at the same time can be seen as too political.
You can make much more difference with the projects of The Mary Foundation - although this may only be national and not global leadership.
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  #36  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:14 PM
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What did you mean by this?
I meant that we hear about the WEF mostly because the famous people involved there. If theyīd only choose accomplished but unknown members we wouldnīt be even having this discussion.
I didnīt mean this Internet forum, if thatīs what you understand. I think I should clarify that point.
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What do you even mean by that? Have you personally IQ tested Mary since you can say with such certainty that she isn't very intelligent?
No, I havenīt.
Have you, to prove the contrary?
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  #37  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:33 PM
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reply to Annie

Originally Posted by ANNIE_S
And not especially intelligent either, IMO. I think her capacity is quite average, as is Mette Maritīs, or Angelina Jolieīs, to be honest. None of them has a previous preparation that justifies this kind of distinction. I donīt know very much about Maxima career before getting married, but a first sight she would look as the only one of the current CPīs that has a previous adequate background, and still I donīt think they have chosen her for her career.
----------------------------------------------------

Most people working for UNHCR or WHO or WEF are inexperienced until they learn about the issues. The Crown Princesses who take on these Patronages learn all about the issues affecting the various charities they represent. They all make substantial visits to countries to highlight problems that are in desperate need for financial help.
As for Mary not being especially intelligent as you say. May I quote from a High Court Judge who was Chairman of the Danish Refugee Council who accompanied Mary on a six day trip to Uganda in 2008.

Stig Glent-Madsen said; "I am deeply deeply impressed!" on the effort Crown Princess Mary put in during the trip. Ït is not at all the case that the Crown Princess merely plays a part. She is genuinely engaged with the people she sees and speaks with. I cannot imagine a better representative of Denmark." She arrived very well prepared during each part of the trip.
He goes on to say a lot more.

My point is that the WEF would not have invited someone not too bright to be their patron when they have so many others to chose from. Danish Politicians wouold not back her fully if she was not too intelligent either.

I do hope you get my point. cheers
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:21 PM
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Whithout charity or social engagements royals would be jobless. Without a job no justification for the existance of royal houses. As simply as that. It doesn't matter whether or not royal family members are intelligent or believe in what they are doing. All they need is to give the people the impression that you are doing some good stuff and make sure that newspapers pictures you with a smiling demour regal looking face.

Especially Mary was never an adventurer when accepting new projects. She was and is always on the safe side. In that sense Mary is actually quite a boring royal. A hard worker for the royal cause maybe yes. But still a boring hard worker. Her presence at the forum will be a nice shot but no more.
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  #39  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
No, I havenīt.
Have you, to prove the contrary?
Well I'm not the one who said she's not intelligent, however I haven't said she's a genius either because wherefrom should I know? I just think it's a fairly harsh judgement to make on someone you don't know personally, but maybe that's just me
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  #40  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:07 PM
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Well I'm not the one who said she's not intelligent, however I haven't said she's a genius either because wherefrom should I know? I just think it's a fairly harsh judgement to make on someone you don't know personally, but maybe that's just me
No, it isn't just you.

To claim something about someone, without being able to back that up with something substancial and then when challenged, ask your oponents to disprove what you claim - that's a shallow argument in any debate.

It's the way some gossip magazines use. Claim something and then ask the victims to use time and energy to prove them wrong.

You can do better, Annie_S.

Come on!
None of us know how intelligent Mary is. Suffice to say she is not stupid by any reasonable standard. So let's move on from this intelligence nonsense, shall we?
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