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  #21  
Old 07-14-2008, 10:37 AM
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A colourphoto of the engagement:

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  #22  
Old 07-20-2008, 10:46 AM
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In fact she was so beautiful and he was very far away from been atractive. And it seems strange to me that the weddidg wasn't approved because by that time Spain wasn't a monarchy and Juan Carlos and Sofia have already had Elena and JC was Franco's favourite and Carlos-Hugo probably won't be a king.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:48 AM
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They never asked for approval!!!
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Old 07-26-2008, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sjetajiem View Post
They never asked for approval!!!
Oh yes they did.But during the,what is called,night of Marijnissen (the then PM) it was decided to have a wedding without parliaments consent as C-H,and more specifically his father,wasn't willing to give up the rights to the Throne of Spain,as that alone was the obstacle,
but old Xavier was a stubborn old bat and he wouldn't hear of it.

Not too long after this little family drama,Prince Bernhard's intervenience made the B-P's were kicked out of Soestdijk Palace.With Juliana,Bernhard and Beatrix on a State Visit to Mexico,one Irene initially was to accompany them too,the B-P's "made themselves comfortable" at Soiestdijk Palace,ordering the household around as if they bloody owned the place,really,that happened,till the palace staff was soo fet up they called PB in Mexico,he told them a thing or two I can't recall here,they all packed their bags the same minute........

Spain wasn't a Monarchie at the time,no,but Franco had dear Juan Carlos already "in training" in Spain as his future heir,nobody was waiting for yet another rival to a,at the time,non-existent Throne.

Due to our relations with Spain,we would have offended a friendly nation diplomatically,a parliamentary yes would mean a recognisition of the Carlist claim,by both the government and the RF,that couldn't be the case as you will understand.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:29 PM
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I thought her wedding dress was boring but I love her tiara.
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  #26  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:23 AM
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A clip of the wedding of Princess Irene in the chapel Borghese of the Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome, followed by an audience of the couple by Pope Paulus VI:



Note the catty comment of the reporter in the end: 'Nobody paid attention to the other members of the Bourbon-Parma family, like the sisters-in-law of Princess Irene'.

Due to the large crowds & chaos the couple was half an hour late for heir audience with the pope.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:32 AM
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What an amazing clip,its hard to believe today that this wedding caused quite a stir in Royal circles,did anyone from the Dutch RF attend?
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:43 AM
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What an amazing clip,its hard to believe today that this wedding caused quite a stir in Royal circles,did anyone from the Dutch RF attend?
No,no one.As Carlos Hugo was Pretender to the Spanish Throne and Franco was in charge there with another in mind,Juan Carlos...It was not done to attend,plus ofcourse in these frumpy days it was an absolute scandal that the Princess had converted to Catholicism...The outcry!...Another reason the RF couldn't attend.They all watched the ceremony at Warmelo Castle,residence of Prince Bernhards mother instead...Sad...Would be totally laughable these days...but back then...

But the newly weds were again present among family circles that same summer in Porto Ercole,Tuscany where Juliana and Bernhard used to have a villa
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:25 AM
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No,no one.As Carlos Hugo was Pretender to the Spanish Throne and Franco was in charge there with another in mind,Juan Carlos...It was not done to attend,plus ofcourse in these frumpy days it was an absolute scandal that the Princess had converted to Catholicism...The outcry!...Another reason the RF couldn't attend.They all watched the ceremony at Warmelo Castle,residence of Prince Bernhards mother instead...Sad...Would be totally laughable these days...but back then...

But the newly weds were again present among family circles that same summer in Porto Ercole,Tuscany where Juliana and Bernhard used to have a villa
Thanks Lucien,hard to bekieve it was almost 50 years ago! I'm sure the sizeable Dutch Catholic population didn't see it as a scandal at the time!
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:13 PM
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Thanks Lucien,hard to bekieve it was almost 50 years ago! I'm sure the sizeable Dutch Catholic population didn't see it as a scandal at the time!
No not at all,then,as now still,it was the largest denomination.But the understanding for the difficult position of Queen Juliana was huge all the same.It must have been extremely difficult for her as a Mother on the one hand,and a Head of State on the other.A Solomon decision.Extra difficult to Juliana as the wedding took place a day before her birthday and at that time there were huge defilées at Soestdijk Palace.And Juliana ofcourse was there on the morning of april 30th,as if nothing ever happened....There was just this empty spot where Princess Irene used to stand on this special day.Was sad An,I am sure she had wished she been just among the family,or alone.But,duty first,always.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:07 PM
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There were slightly more protestants than catholics in the country in 1960, though the protestants were divided in the Dutch Reformed, Remonstrant, Reformed, Lutheran etc. churches. Most people that were 'unreligious' were originally from protestant families too.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religie...loop_nationaal

I don't think HM had to decide for herself. The government did that for her, and quite rightly so. They didn't want the Dutch RF/ country to be accociated in any way with Carlism.

---------------


The Bourbons behaved horribly throughout the matter btw. They were reluctant to cooperate with the government and Dutch court. A reconstruction from these websites:

Het Marathoninterview -> Afleveringen -> De zaak Irene -> Items -> De verloving en het huwelijk
and
http://www.thedutchroyalfamily.nl/20...es-deel-1.html

On January 27th the princess gave an interview to newspaper the 'Telegraaf', in which she asks for understanding of Spain's social policies. She says she is impressed but forgets to mention the repression under the fascist regime. The interview is met with furious reactions in the Netherlands. Newspaper 'Parool' calls the princess 'naive'. The prime minister was not notified about the interview (as he should be, due to the ministerial responsibility), in the end the Dutch ambassador in Madrid is blamed for the interview.

On the 29th of January rumours about a conversion of the princess pop up. The RVD calls the rumours 'nonsense'. But a day later a photograph (made by Jaime Penafiel) appeared of Princess Irene praying in a catholic church in Spain. Vice Prime Minister Biesheuvel doesn't know what to do, and the Prime Minister Marijnen is on a skiing holiday. Biesheuvel informs the counsil of ministers and the prime minister immidiately returns to The Hague.

Reactions werer furious again. For example in the village St. Maartensdijk they immidiately removed the name 'Irene' from the school that carried her name. Most protestants were understanding of her conversion, but that it was done in secret was unacceptable to most. The princess also did not notify the government, while due to the ministerial responsibility they are responsible for everything she says or does. But the matter that was hurtful to most protestants was that the princess had to be re-baptised. Cardinal Alfrink was not sure if he should re-baptise the princess (2nd of January in Rome), but the ultra catholic Bourbon-Parma family absolutely insisted on it. The cardinal was too intimidated to call the palace for advice and yielded to the pressures of the Bourbons.

After his return, the prime minister visited Queen Juliana, and he was informed about the engagement plans between Irene and CH. The prime minister formed a quartet of four ministers from different political parties. They wanted to announce the engagement as soon as possible, so the press wouldn't discover it first. The family of Carlos Hugo (in Paris) refused to cooperate with this plan as they wanted to wait for the right moment that they could announce the engagement in Spain to maximal effect. After this the RF left for Innsbruck to attend the winter Olympics.

The quartet of politicians agree that princess Irene should renounce the rights to the throne, as it is impossible to have succession rights to the Dutch ánd Spanish throne at the same time. This was much to the surprise of the Bourbon family.

On February 4th the RF hastily returns from Austria and Queen Juliana announced on the radio that Princess Irene notified her family that the engagement would not proceed (the public & press still didn't know the identity of the man in Irene's life). The same evening Prime Minister Marijnen gives a press conference and still refuses to reveal the identity of the man in question.

Prince Bernhard travels to Paris to meet the Bourbons. Prime Minister Marijnen talks to Carlos Hugo and tries to explain him the democratic values of the Dutch state. One of them was that you could not have ambitions at the Spanish throne (as a Carlist) and be married to a Dutch princess with succession rights. CH didn't understand it.

On February 8th prince Bernhard traveled by plane to Madrid to collect his daughter and Carlos Hugo. Much to the surprise of the Dutch government, CH announced the engagement on the Spanish radio before Bernhard arrived, without consulting the Dutch government & RF. Irene does the same shortly after arrival around midnight in the Netherlands. The prime minister sends a letter to parlament, in which he said that the princess will not ask for permission to marry and will thus lose her succession rights.

A day later the couple gives a press conference. In the following days the duke and duchess of Parma & two of their daughters arrive in the Netherlands. There is also a special reception at the counsil of ministers, where the prime minister gives a toast. This is followed by an interview at Huis ten Bosch palace.

Two months later the couple gets married in Rome, although the Dutch prime minister previously announced that the wedding would take place in The Netherlands. CH and his family however decided that they wanted a grand wedding in Rome, by the pope. The pope refuses, and only blesses them after the ceremony. The Dutch government is relieved as they feared that the carlists would use the wedding to hold demonstrations in the Netherlands.

I think that between the engagement and the wedding there still was the state visit to Mexico. Princess Irene was supposed to join her parents and elder sister but much to their surprise she did not join them on the airport. During the absence of the royal couple it was said that the Bourbon-Parma's took over Soestdijk Palace, where they misbehaved. It was even said that Princess Margriet had to call the local police in Baarn (not likely, but still....it shows that the family was considered horrible and CH's sisters were seen as the wicked step sisters from Cinderella).

So after all the drama and the irrisponsible behavior of princess Irene and the Bourbon-Parma clan, it isn't surprising that many people were angry. I believe she was by many referred to as a 'rotmeid'.
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  #32  
Old 04-02-2013, 01:11 PM
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Thanks to Lucien and Marengo for all the xtra tidbits and information on the wedding and scandal that ensued afterwards.

I find it all very interesting
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  #33  
Old 04-02-2013, 01:24 PM
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Very interesting backstory to the wedding-despite all the drama she was a gorgeous bride nevertheless.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:50 PM
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A clip of the engagement (starts after 2.42 minutes):



You cans ee the arrival of the princess and CH, arrival of the Bourbon-Parma's. the interview at Huis ten Bosch etc.

----

Her life became even more eventful at Montejura I think, where prince Sixtus of B-P was shooting at his brother CH and Princess Irene....
Bourbon-Parma: Spain, Carlist political activity, the Montejura Shootings
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:27 PM
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He spoke spanish and not french !
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:33 PM
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Did the family ever really warm up to CH or was he merely tolerated for Irene's sake?
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:24 PM
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Did the family ever really warm up to CH or was he merely tolerated for Irene's sake?
They all had a very close relationship with him. He was at all the major events. Even after he and P Irene were divorced.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:07 AM
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Did the family ever really warm up to CH or was he merely tolerated for Irene's sake?
Oh no,he was really really warmly loved by all in the Royal Family!Even after the divorce he was still very much part of all events in the family,be they happy or sad until the very last.As Carlos Hugo died in Barcelona HM Queen Beatrix send the Government aircraft KBX to fetch the remains there and take them back to The Netherlands.For IIRC,three day there was a liying in state at Fagel's Pavillion,a beautifull and beautifully restored pavillion in the gardens of Noordeinde Palace,with ALL honours!

All members of the Dutch Royal Family,including ofcourse the new Duke and Duchess of Parma,payed their respects there to their much loved former husband,b-i-l,uncle,dad and dearest friend.No really,he was much much loved ,both in the family as well as in the Country,"our" Carlos Hugo.

And then ofcourse his funeral in Parma,his coffin was flown again on the KBX,as were his children,and W-A and Máxima and the brothers and s-i-l's,Princess Margriet and Pieter and their children.Loved,yes,very much.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:24 PM
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Lucien,
How was the relationship between the Queen and the Prince and Prince and Princess Xavier of Bourbon Parma ?
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:19 PM
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I have no idea, though I am sure prince Bernhard wouldn't have had too much patience with their odd & antiquated ideas. That they used Irene's money to restaure Lignieres castle, while afterwards Princess Madelaine disinherited her eldest son in favor of the nutty prince Sixtus wouldn't have helped either.
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