Prince Carl Philip of Sweden and Sofia Hellqvist: June 13, 2015

[rubies]

Do the Prince and Princess work?

Well said Pranter

 

[Isabella]

Ok, thanks for your answer.

I am currently watching the end of the ceremony with "Joyful, joyful". I am definitely unimpressed. It had no class IMHO.
Love for liturgical rite is a good reason for my being a catholic. I can't get used to non-liturgical music being performed in a religiou ceremony.

While I generally very much disliked the music choices for the wedding (or at least the Enya, Coldplay, and Rihanna selections), "Joyful, Joyful" was actually a highlight for me. Gospel music is religious music. It may not be the style of music that most of us are used to worshiping with, but it's a bid odd to me that people seem to be almost offended that gospel music was used in a church. That's what it's for! Some churches fill their services with that kind of music exclusively. (And yes, I do realize that that particular arrangement comes from Sister Act 2, but personally I don't see that as making much of a difference. Gospel music arrangements can be a bit more fluid than other styles of religious music).

Exacty - they know pretty much everyone there - they are Royal wedding veterans and are probably considered friends by many of them. Lots of photos of them interacting with others:

Sophie and the Queens

Sophie and Victoria

During the dinner Edward seemed to be doing a fine job of enteraining is table which included Mette-Marit and Maxima, both people's weddings he has attended and people who he probably considers friends.

I'm sure Edward and Sophie are just fine at the wedding, and I'm pretty sure that's the reason that they're the ones who the British royal family send to the European weddings. As you said, they're royal wedding veterans. They know the drill. The BRF could've shifted to sending some of the younger members of the family to the weddings at this point if they wanted to, but at this point, the Wessexes know everybody. I've certainly seen them warmly greet (or be greeted by) other royals at non-royal events, such as when Prince Daniel went over to say hello to Sophie at one of the events at the London Olympics.

And last night I saw a screenshot on Twitter of Sophie and Ari Behn sitting next to each other at the dinner, and they were both laughing and Ari had his arm across her shoulder (and Märtha Louise and Ari's wedding was yet another one attended by the Wessexes)

 

[Lee-Z]

Here is a rough translation of Carl Philips speech. If something is spelled the wrong way or sounds strange, it's probably me, not him

Your Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses, Excellences, ladies and gentlemen, dear family and friends, and last but not least, my dear wife Sofia.

Sometimes you reach a turing point. A choice that defies your whole future, and which touches the core of who you are and who you want to be. It often takes courage. Courage to not chose the easy way because is is the easy one, but courage to stay on the hard way because it's the right way.

Sofia, we never chose the hard way, it chose us. Every time we tried to make another choice, love brought us together again. Every time we tried to stay away from each other my heart became empty. And at last, at last Sofia, we made the right choice - a choice that makes me the happiest man on earth. Sofia, you fill my life with love and joy.

Today we prove that love conquers all. ….

Xenobia, thank you for translating this for us!
I think it's a lovely speech!

 

[Hendrik-Jan77]

I wish Carl Philip and Sofia well. It is always a miracle in life when you find your soulmate.
I watched the wedding yesterday and ofcourse it was their day and they made their choices but it made me even more looking forward to the future royal wedding of Prince Henry of Wales. The way the British Royal Family organises a wedding with all the traditional classical music, to me that is how a Royal Wedding should be.
Just my opinion.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Absolutely agree. I have no need or desire that there are people better than me. As you say it is all the luck of the draw. For those who are so against Sophia, I think they need to do more historical reading. There are many, many before Sophia who have joined "royal" families and ended up almost creating dynasties.

What is all this worrying about "people better than me"? How about people that you can simply look up to, admire and be proud to have as your representative on the world stage?

Almost every anti-Royal or Republican seems to resent the idea that a Royal might be perceived as better than ME. (God forbid.)

Maybe they are better, and maybe they are not. Who knows and who cares? But what I would not appreciate is the idea that my tax payer money is going to support the lavish lifestyle of someone whose "career" photos I would not want my children or grandparents to see because they are so graphic and whose sense of ethics leaves me with a huge question mark about them.

If that makes me a snobby, closed minded elitist I will wave my banner high.

 

[Mbruno]

I wish Carl Philip and Sofia well. It is always a miracle in life when you find your soulmate.
I watched the wedding yesterday and ofcourse it was their day and they made their choices but it made me even more looking forward to the future royal wedding of Prince Henry of Wales. The way the British Royal Family organises a wedding with all the traditional classical music, to me that is how a Royal Wedding should be.
Just my opinion.

There isn't really a lot of classical music in British royal weddings. It's mostly hymns and patriotic English songs. Recent Spanish and Belgian royal weddings had classical music specially written for a Catholic mass.

 

[Sancia]

While I generally very much disliked the music choices for the wedding (or at least the Enya, Coldplay, and Rihanna selections), "Joyful, Joyful" was actually a highlight for me. Gospel music is religious music. It may not be the style of music that most of us are used to worshiping with, but it's a bid odd to me that people seem to be almost offended that gospel music was used in a church. That's what it's for! Some churches fill their services with that kind of music exclusively. (And yes, I do realize that that particular arrangement comes from Sister Act 2, but personally I don't see that as making much of a difference. Gospel music arrangements can be a bit more fluid than other styles of religious music).

Yes, gospel is religious music and it is a kind of music I quite like. However, this special arrangement is the kind I don't even stand in catholic liturgies where eveything is ok. Matter of personal taste. I am fully aware it can fill catholic and protestant churches, but I still dislike it.

 

[ladongas]

For those who have questioned the 'class' of the wedding pair, I think it shows a lack of class to harshly criticize a couple on their wedding day.

 

[xenobia]

For those who have questioned the 'class' of the wedding pair, I think it shows a lack of class to harshly criticize a couple on their wedding day.

Hear, hear!
There will be plenty of time to critize them in years to come, if you want to. Give them a pass on their wedding day. And if you don't want to do that, please let us who want to share their joy and happiness do so without having to read all the negativity in this thread. Save that for another thread, another day.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Exacty - they know pretty much everyone there - they are Royal wedding veterans and are probably considered friends by many of them. Lots of photos of them interacting with others:

Sophie and the Queens

I'd love to know what Sophie and the Queens are discussing!

 

[Zonk]

Let's get back on topic...the wedding of Carl Philip and Sofia.

A couple of posts have been deleted as off topic.

Any and all discussion about American politics will be deleted without notice.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Monarchies are dated and anachronistic. They exist through the will of the people. No nation has a monarch in Western Europe that rules. Those that are looking down their noses at a lovely wedding and a lovely bride and groom, better hike back to the 19th Century. All that stuff is over. Four of the queens in attendance are commoners. Everyone seemed to have a good time. They all looked lovely. The bride and groom seem to love each other very much. The groom's mother looked like she was having a swell time from a glimpse in a window. And there are, really, no royals. Just a made up word to rule over others. It is long over.

I completely agree with you, also want to say I agree with everything Lady Nimue said in her post. History and the present has more than shown that these people are no better than the rest of us. I am surprised that such archaic ideas as blue blood vs red blood is alive in 2015. I will not go into much detail but the actions of certain "blue bloods" has done more damage than any commoner could do; Diana, Charles, Edward VIII, Princess Margaret, Henry VIII, George IV, all the antics of the Hanoverians, Louis XV of France etc. Forgive me for seeming to focus on the British misbehavior but ai know much more about them than any other royal family. These people are not better than us simply because they were born. People like Daniel Sophie Wessex, Maxima, Letizia who have succeeded in the real world are more worthy of admiration because they have worked and accomplished things as opposed to someone like Elizabeth II whose only accomplishment is being born....I take that back, she's almost 90 and has nothing embarrasing in her history...that alone is a major accomplishment especially with her countries scum reporters.
I am stunned and downright disgusted with some of the attitudes here and I agree that if you want to believe royalty are better than the rest of us, you need to read a fairy tale.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I like the group photo, but I do agree that the white is a bit much. Particularly for the one of the royal guests and bridesmaids, I would've preferred gilded Palace walls as the background. The second one in particular looks as if it's been taken in a hotel but it's nice to have a photo of Sofia's sisters with Carl Philip's sisters.

Your Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses, Excellences, ladies and gentlemen, dear family and friends, and last but not least, my dear wife Sofia.

Sometimes you reach a turing point. A choice that defies your whole future, and which touches the core of who you are and who you want to be. It often takes courage. Courage to not chose the easy way because is is the easy one, but courage to stay on the hard way because it's the right way.

Sofia, we never chose the hard way, it chose us. Every time we tried to make another choice, love brought us together again. Every time we tried to stay away from each other my heart became empty. And at last, at last Sofia, we made the right choice - a choice that makes me the happiest man on earth. Sofia, you fill my life with love and joy.

Today we prove that love conquers all. ...

A big thanks for the translation. I thought it was a beautiful speech.

Exacty - they know pretty much everyone there - they are Royal wedding veterans and are probably considered friends by many of them. Lots of photos of them interacting with others:

Sophie and the Queens

Sophie and Victoria

During the dinner Edward seemed to be doing a fine job of enteraining is table which included Mette-Marit and Maxima, both people's weddings he has attended and people who he probably considers friends.

Those are great photos of Sophie and Edward talking with the European royals. I particularly like the one of Sophie and Margrethe. I've read that Margrethe is friends with Elizabeth II, so it's understandable that she and Sophie get on well (or from what I can see). Margrethe was interviewed on the programme Our Queen (with perfect English). Edward is also a godfather to Prince Nikolai of Denmark.

 

[Marty91charmed]

The gospel version of Beethoven's music in itself was not so bad, but I think it was a bad choice for the recessional procession. Thankfully, the cameras cut to Sofia and CP and didn't show the rest of the Royal Family and the royal guests leaving the church while the chorus was singing and the congregation was clapping. The younger royals like Frederik and Haakon might have been OK with it, but I wonder if Queen Margrethe or even Mathilde and Edward Wessex felt uncomfortable with it.

I don't know about Queen Margrethe but she looked "merry" and a bit "absent" during the whole ceremony, so I think her facial expression didn't change.... As for Mathilde: I think she didn't care and went along clapping... Sophie looked a bit uncofortable and like she didn't know what to do...

 

[Mbruno]

A few comments about what has been said about monarchies by some posters here.

First, all European monarchies are democracies. The country is governed by politicians who can be thrown out of office every 4 or 5 years just like an American president.

Second, not all royal jewels are state-owned. Dutch and Swedish jewels for example and many British jewels are privately owned and the RF paid for them in the past. The jewels on the other hand that are state-owned are at the disposal of the RF so that they can be used for cerimonial representation of the state on special occasions, which is precisely the role of the royals in a democratic constitutional model.



Third, curtsying is rarely used in Belgium, Sweden or the Netherlands and Even in countries where curtsying is still common, no one really has to do it. It is just a question of manners and respect for the institution the royals represent.

Finally, regarding being succeeded by a half-witt child, I suppose the risk exists as monarchy is based after all on hereditary primogeniture. However, the heir to the throne has his or her entire life to prepare himself or herself to be the monarch and is raísed from birth with that future role in mind. That is far more preparation than politicians normally have !

 

[Marengo]

Queen Sonja seemed to enjoy it and started to clap along.

I didn't mind the music that much. His sisters both had a pop song in church too, so maybe it is normal in the Swedish church? The music wouldn't be my choice in a million years, I would stick to Bach from beginning to end probably. But the couple liked it and it was their wedding. In a way it can be appreciated that they didn't pretend to be something they were not and just went for what they liked.

However if it would happen in a Dutch protestant church I would be very surprised. A church is a church, not a concert hall for pop songs.

BTW: which genius left the palace curtains open? I never thought I would see Queen Silvia dancing on Avicii while waving with a napkin over her head. Good for her!

BTW2: what a delightful lady Princess Hisako of Takamado is.

 

[xenobia]

Queen Sonja seemed to enjoy it and started to clap along.

I didn't mind the music that much. His sisters both had a pop song in church too, so maybe it is normal in the Swedish church? The music wouldn't be my choice in a million years, I would stick to Bach from beginning to end probably. But the couple liked it and it was their wedding. In a way it can be appreciated that they didn't pretend to be something they were not and just went for what they like.

The music choices were along the same lines as his sisters weddings, and I would say that they are very much alike other church weddings here in Sweden. The bride and groom picks music that means something special to them. When it comes to the gospel song at the end of the ceremony, I think it was a pleasant surprise to most swedes who were watching. This kind of gospel music is very common in both the Church of Sweden and other churches. There are lots of really good gospel choirs here. They both sing during church services and give concerts, and most swedes like that kind of music.

I respect and understand that other countries have a different musical tradition, and might not like the swedish way of doing things. But as I said, here I think that most people appreciate the music that was chosen for the church ceremony.

 

[Viv]

The gospel version of Beethoven's
music in itself was not so bad, but I think it was a bad choice
for the recessional procession.

! It was absolutely unsuitable for a procession! As someone
else mentioned, church music is composed 'soli deo gloria', for the
glory of God. Music for church rituals & services should reflect this,
and it can be done in several ways using both classical as well as
modern music, as long as it doesn't clash with the Gospel and the
liturgy and the nature of the event itself.
It should also be possible to include a suitable song/solo piece
of personal choice.
However at the end of the day a church wedding is not about the
bridal couple displaying their inventiveness and stage managing
abilities! That should be left to the celebration afterwards!

That said, the bride was beautiful and it was heart warming
to watch the happiness of the couple! And let's give Sofia a
chance! I wouldn't be surprised if she'd turn out to be an asset
for the Swedish RF - as long a she doesn't mess too much with
future ecclesiastical events .

Thankfully, the cameras cut to Sofia
and CP and didn't show the rest of the Royal Family and the
royal guests leaving the church while the chorus was singing
and the congregation was clapping. The younger royals like
Frederik and Haakon might have been OK with it, but I
wonder if Queen Margrethe or even Mathilde and Edward
Wessex felt uncomfortable with it.

Queen Margrethe has a certain look when not amused! I agree
that it was a wise decision of the TV producers to omit close-ups
of the royals during the exit!

 

[Mirabel]

I am often slashed on this board for being oldfashioned in my desire that royals should go for the longer term interests of their monarchy and marry "suitable" partners.

Averyone, from the man in the street to the lady behind her laptop somewhere in Australia sees that it does not matter at all. You were the personal sports instructor of the Crown Princess? Welcome His Royal Highness Prince Daniel of Sweden! You were a bikini model and real life soap actress? Welcome Her Royal Highness Princess Sofia of Sweden! You were an unwed mother with a son from a guy somewhere? Welcome Her Royal Highness Princess Mette-Marit of Norway! You were splashed out on the Spanish TV-screens, day in, day out, reading the news? Welcome Her Majesty The Queen of Spain... suddenly you are no longer a journalist, a sports instructor, a bikini model or a waitress in a bar but a "Royal Highness"....

I'm not slashing at you, but I must disagree.
I honestly can't see where someone born in a chateau has intrinsically more class than someone born in an apartment.

Wasn't Princess Theodora of Greece also a soap actress?
How many members of the Grimaldi clan had children by people they weren't wed to? (Not to mention the behavior of people they were wed to, like Prince Ernst of Hanover).

Many scions of the aristocracy make the tabloids for drug abuse, bar fights, domestic violence, drunk driving. Does their pedigree somehow wipe out these offenses?

People either have class or they don't, and I don't believe bloodlines have anything to do with it!

 

[HRHHermione]

The idea that someone's bloodlines make them inherently better than others is not just out of date, it's downright offensive. Human beings are all created equal in terms of value, some are lucky enough to be born into very privileged positions.

I think Princess Mette-Marit, Queen Letizia, Princess Sofia, Princess Charlene, and ESPECIALLY the Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Daniel have been valuable additions to their respective families and I'm happy for all of them.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[Valerie Rose]

I forget where I saw it now, but I could have done without seeing the photo of Princess Sofia giving a "thumbs up" from the carriage procession after the wedding

 

[Moonmaiden23]

And someday another commoner will be queen (Kate). What difference does it make? There's no such thing as 'royal bloodlines' anyway. How many times have thrones been toppled by war and other machinations and new 'blood' taken over?

It's just a lingering tradition now from days long ago. If a country wants to retain that connection to their history by allowing a family to 'pretend' to rule...that's up to them. Just don't expect people in this day and age to think there's anything superior about the 'royal' families. So all the angst about royals marrying unsuitable spouses etc is just silly. I mean really...we are all equal....and good Lord some of the royals aren't exactly someone you'd want to marry anyway...they all have their own vices and skeletons.


LaRae

I think you and many others are missing the point. The issue IS NOT COMMONERS. The problem is COMMON COMMONERS.

If I was Dutch I'd be proud as heck to have the former Maxima Zorregueta as my Queen. Same if I was Luxembourgish with Maria-Teresa Mestre. Neither of those women have "bloodlines" but there is nothing vulgar or common about them and their past and present conduct.

If you and the others don't know the difference I can't explain it to you.

 

[casualfan]

You know what struck me watching the recessional? Many of those "born royals" we're cheering and clapping (and smiling and clearly enjoying the moment) just as much as the non-born royals. So, what are we all talking about here??

Edited to add: I liked how Sofia and Carl Philip are clearly respectful of and respected by courtiers - she thanked the staffer carrying her skirt and who placed the train in the carriage, he shared a warm moment with the adjutant who handed him his gloves while he was in the carriage (he has forgotten them on the recessional).

 

[Tarlita]

I think the main thing here is that Carl Philip is happy. It took him long enough to find the Right One. I would think Sofia has a fair idea of what is expected of her. Maybe in years to come this couple will be the ones to attend the many European weddings as their Queen becomes busier and busier. Just like Edward and Sophie of Wessex are representatives of their Queen. Edward and Sophie must know the European Royals better than anyone else in the BRF by now. As they have attended so many celebrations over the years, since at least 2004.

 

[carlota]

I thought Sofia’s dress was nothing too memorable, I’m afraid, and i wish they would have tried to cover her tatoo next to her neck. The choice of tiara was unusual, and I’m sure sofia would have preferred a family tiara rather than a purchased tiara, but I thought the choice of a purchased tiara specially for her was a good move by the king and queen, so that in case of divorce they don’t commit their heirloom. Having only one daughter in law, this solves all the issue of family jewels for this generation, and no one can say that Sofia had any different treatment to anyone else, as there are no other daughters in law.
Even so, the tiara, which I guess Sofia had a say in, is nothing very special. I find it slightly undelicate to be honest, with those big motifs. The choice of having emeralds makes it a bit strange for a wedding, but I guess this will become her go to tiara so needed the possibility of getting some colour in.
All this being said about the non special dress and non special tiara, there is no denying that Sofia was a beaming bride and CP looked like the happiest person! I like the couple they form.
I also liked the choice of flowers - it’s nice to see a wedding where not all flowers are white, and where there is some colour! Great choice in my opinion.
A strange choice of waltz as well but having the name of the bride, who can blame them for having chosen it! odd choice of song to exit the church, i have to admit though... very unroyal, but at least authentic.
I wonder if we will get some pictures of the dress sofia changed to after the wedding – from the pictures the paparazzi took, she changed into a different dress for the private party, which may have been slightly more exciting.
I also liked sofia tapping on her new father in laws shoulder warmly at the banquet, and seeing Victoria shed a tear at the church – this family clearly look very united. They obviously have accepted sofia’s past and recognize the loving couple they make. I wonder if us, the public, will be as accepting.

 

[MissByrd]

I think you and many others are missing the point. The issue IS NOT COMMONERS. The problem is COMMON COMMONERS.

If I was Dutch I'd be proud as heck to have the former Maxima Zorregueta as my Queen. Same if I was Luxembourgish with Maria-Teresa Mestre. Neither of those women have "bloodlines" but there is nothing vulgar or common about them and their past and present conduct.

If you and the others don't know the difference I can't explain it to you.

MoonMaiden: You made me laugh with this comment. And, if a person doesn't understand "common", what can we say. And, I do agree, that there are some uncommon "commoners" in the royal families these days. And, I look forward to their continuing contributions. Queen Maxima, Prince Daniel, the Duchess of Cambridge, to name three.

 

[Isabella]

The music choices were along the same lines as his sisters weddings, and I would say that they are very much alike other church weddings here in Sweden. The bride and groom picks music that means something special to them. When it comes to the gospel song at the end of the ceremony, I think it was a pleasant surprise to most swedes who were watching. This kind of gospel music is very common in both the Church of Sweden and other churches. There are lots of really good gospel choirs here. They both sing during church services and give concerts, and most swedes like that kind of music.

I respect and understand that other countries have a different musical tradition, and might not like the swedish way of doing things. But as I said, here I think that most people appreciate the music that was chosen for the church ceremony.

Thanks for mentioning that. I certainly think the context of these things is important, so it's nice to hear about these things from a Swedish perspective! It's always interesting to hear what's common in weddings in different countries. I wouldn't have expected that gospel music would be common in Sweden, but I think it's lovely that it is - I certainly like it.

! It was absolutely unsuitable for a procession! As someone
else mentioned, church music is composed 'soli deo gloria', for the
glory of God. Music for church rituals & services should reflect this,
and it can be done in several ways using both classical as well as
modern music, as long as it doesn't clash with the Gospel and the
liturgy and the nature of the event itself.
It should also be possible to include a suitable song/solo piece
of personal choice.
However at the end of the day a church wedding is not about the
bridal couple displaying their inventiveness and stage managing
abilities! That should be left to the celebration afterwards!

That said, the bride was beautiful and it was heart warming
to watch the happiness of the couple! And let's give Sofia a
chance! I wouldn't be surprised if she'd turn out to be an asset
for the Swedish RF - as long a she doesn't mess too much with
future ecclesiastical events .



Queen Margrethe has a certain look when not amused! I agree
that it was a wise decision of the TV producers to omit close-ups
of the royals during the exit!

Perhaps people have different ideas of how music should glorify God. The pop songs have no religious basis, which is a large part of the reason I dislike when they're included in weddings. But "Joyful, Joyful" is obviously adapted from a hymn of praise. The arrangement might not be to everyone's tastes, but if people think it's alright to have classical music or even modern music that isn't of religious influence, why on earth should gospel music be objectionable? I mean, I'm an Episcopalian who is accustomed to singing traditional hymns in church, but I don't see a gospel arrangement as bringing any less glory to God whatsoever. I realize it has to do with people's own tastes and traditions, but apparently gospel choirs are common in Sweden, and I know in the United States I've seen them incorporated into all kinds of services and in a variety of different denominations.

For me, the recessional was beautiful because it felt truly "Joyful" indeed. A great way to incorporate religious music in a celebratory way.

 

[Tarlita]

Yes I mean Carl Philip feels that Sofia is the Right One for him. No matter what anyone else thinks. And at a much later point in the future Carl Philip and Sofia may or May Not be expected to attend events on behalf of their Queen. Perhaps Madeleine and her husband would be expected to do this. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[Isabella]

You know what struck me watching the recessional? Many of those "born royals" we're cheering and clapping (and smiling and clearly enjoying the moment) just as much as the non-born royals. So, what are we all talking about here??

Edited to add: I liked how Sofia and Carl Philip are clearly respectful of and respected by courtiers - she thanked the staffer carrying her skirt and who placed the train in the carriage, he shared a warm moment with the adjutant who handed him his gloves while he was in the carriage (he has forgotten them on the recessional).

I will say, although I disliked several of the music choices and found them a bit uncomfortable, I did notice that many of the royals seemed to be quite into it - several of the royals (born royal or not) seemed to be quite moved by "Fix You," and there was definitely some clapping during the recessional. I may not have liked all of it (and there were definitely a couple of people who I would've enjoyed seeing some close-up reactions of, such as Queen Margrethe and Prince Edward), but most of the congregation, including the royals, seem to go with it just fine. And if the bride and groom are happy, and their guests are happy, then that seems like a pretty good wedding to me!

 

[RubyPrincess168]

I don't know about Queen Margrethe but she looked "merry" and a bit "absent" during the whole ceremony, so I think her facial expression didn't change.....

She seemed a bit off to me throughout the whole thing, like maybe she was injured or something. She wobbled or limped a bit on the orange carpet on the way to the church. She seemed to be leaning heavily on the stone railing of the staircase while they were lining up for the large group photo. And somewhere I saw a photo that looked she was sitting down on a gold chair, with Mary and possible Frederick talking to her.

As for the candid photos of the dance taken through the palace windows, I dislike purely on the grounds that they seem voyeuristic and stalker-ish, and I wish people wouldn't encourage that kind of photography by posting the photos. (Same with the photos of Prince George taken at the window of Buckingham Palace during the Trooping of the Colour).