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  #601  
Old 06-14-2015, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post



Queen Sonja seemed to enjoy it and started to clap along.

I didn't mind the music that much. His sisters both had a pop song in church too, so maybe it is normal in the Swedish church? The music wouldn't be my choice in a million years, I would stick to Bach from beginning to end probably. But the couple liked it and it was their wedding. In a way it can be appreciated that they didn't pretend to be something they were not and just went for what they like.
The music choices were along the same lines as his sisters weddings, and I would say that they are very much alike other church weddings here in Sweden. The bride and groom picks music that means something special to them. When it comes to the gospel song at the end of the ceremony, I think it was a pleasant surprise to most swedes who were watching. This kind of gospel music is very common in both the Church of Sweden and other churches. There are lots of really good gospel choirs here. They both sing during church services and give concerts, and most swedes like that kind of music.

I respect and understand that other countries have a different musical tradition, and might not like the swedish way of doing things. But as I said, here I think that most people appreciate the music that was chosen for the church ceremony.
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  #602  
Old 06-14-2015, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The gospel version of Beethoven's
music in itself was not so bad, but I think it was a bad choice
for the recessional procession.
! It was absolutely unsuitable for a procession! As someone
else mentioned, church music is composed 'soli deo gloria', for the
glory of God. Music for church rituals & services should reflect this,
and it can be done in several ways using both classical as well as
modern music, as long as it doesn't clash with the Gospel and the
liturgy and the nature of the event itself.
It should also be possible to include a suitable song/solo piece
of personal choice.
However at the end of the day a church wedding is not about the
bridal couple displaying their inventiveness and stage managing
abilities! That should be left to the celebration afterwards!

That said, the bride was beautiful and it was heart warming
to watch the happiness of the couple! And let's give Sofia a
chance! I wouldn't be surprised if she'd turn out to be an asset
for the Swedish RF - as long a she doesn't mess too much with
future ecclesiastical events .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Thankfully, the cameras cut to Sofia
and CP and didn't show the rest of the Royal Family and the
royal guests leaving the church while the chorus was singing
and the congregation was clapping. The younger royals like
Frederik and Haakon might have been OK with it, but I
wonder if Queen Margrethe or even Mathilde and Edward
Wessex felt uncomfortable with it.
Queen Margrethe has a certain look when not amused! I agree
that it was a wise decision of the TV producers to omit close-ups
of the royals during the exit!
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  #603  
Old 06-14-2015, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I am often slashed on this board for being oldfashioned in my desire that royals should go for the longer term interests of their monarchy and marry "suitable" partners.

Averyone, from the man in the street to the lady behind her laptop somewhere in Australia sees that it does not matter at all. You were the personal sports instructor of the Crown Princess? Welcome His Royal Highness Prince Daniel of Sweden! You were a bikini model and real life soap actress? Welcome Her Royal Highness Princess Sofia of Sweden! You were an unwed mother with a son from a guy somewhere? Welcome Her Royal Highness Princess Mette-Marit of Norway! You were splashed out on the Spanish TV-screens, day in, day out, reading the news? Welcome Her Majesty The Queen of Spain... suddenly you are no longer a journalist, a sports instructor, a bikini model or a waitress in a bar but a "Royal Highness"....



I'm not slashing at you, but I must disagree.
I honestly can't see where someone born in a chateau has intrinsically more class than someone born in an apartment.

Wasn't Princess Theodora of Greece also a soap actress?
How many members of the Grimaldi clan had children by people they weren't wed to? (Not to mention the behavior of people they were wed to, like Prince Ernst of Hanover).

Many scions of the aristocracy make the tabloids for drug abuse, bar fights, domestic violence, drunk driving. Does their pedigree somehow wipe out these offenses?

People either have class or they don't, and I don't believe bloodlines have anything to do with it!
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  #604  
Old 06-14-2015, 05:47 PM
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The idea that someone's bloodlines make them inherently better than others is not just out of date, it's downright offensive. Human beings are all created equal in terms of value, some are lucky enough to be born into very privileged positions.

I think Princess Mette-Marit, Queen Letizia, Princess Sofia, Princess Charlene, and ESPECIALLY the Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Daniel have been valuable additions to their respective families and I'm happy for all of them.


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  #605  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:05 PM
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I forget where I saw it now, but I could have done without seeing the photo of Princess Sofia giving a "thumbs up" from the carriage procession after the wedding
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  #606  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
And someday another commoner will be queen (Kate). What difference does it make? There's no such thing as 'royal bloodlines' anyway. How many times have thrones been toppled by war and other machinations and new 'blood' taken over?

It's just a lingering tradition now from days long ago. If a country wants to retain that connection to their history by allowing a family to 'pretend' to rule...that's up to them. Just don't expect people in this day and age to think there's anything superior about the 'royal' families. So all the angst about royals marrying unsuitable spouses etc is just silly. I mean really...we are all equal....and good Lord some of the royals aren't exactly someone you'd want to marry anyway...they all have their own vices and skeletons.


LaRae
I think you and many others are missing the point. The issue IS NOT COMMONERS. The problem is COMMON COMMONERS.

If I was Dutch I'd be proud as heck to have the former Maxima Zorregueta as my Queen. Same if I was Luxembourgish with Maria-Teresa Mestre. Neither of those women have "bloodlines" but there is nothing vulgar or common about them and their past and present conduct.

If you and the others don't know the difference I can't explain it to you.
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  #607  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:17 PM
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Prince Carl Philip of Sweden and Sofia Hellqvist: June 13, 2015

You know what struck me watching the recessional? Many of those "born royals" we're cheering and clapping (and smiling and clearly enjoying the moment) just as much as the non-born royals. So, what are we all talking about here??

Edited to add: I liked how Sofia and Carl Philip are clearly respectful of and respected by courtiers - she thanked the staffer carrying her skirt and who placed the train in the carriage, he shared a warm moment with the adjutant who handed him his gloves while he was in the carriage (he has forgotten them on the recessional).
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  #608  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:17 PM
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I think the main thing here is that Carl Philip is happy. It took him long enough to find the Right One. I would think Sofia has a fair idea of what is expected of her. Maybe in years to come this couple will be the ones to attend the many European weddings as their Queen becomes busier and busier. Just like Edward and Sophie of Wessex are representatives of their Queen. Edward and Sophie must know the European Royals better than anyone else in the BRF by now. As they have attended so many celebrations over the years, since at least 2004.
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  #609  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:22 PM
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2 things Tarlita. 1) The right one is Sofia? Oh my god. 2) He is expected of her to attend to European weddings? Oh my god again.
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  #610  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:23 PM
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I thought Sofia’s dress was nothing too memorable, I’m afraid, and i wish they would have tried to cover her tatoo next to her neck. The choice of tiara was unusual, and I’m sure sofia would have preferred a family tiara rather than a purchased tiara, but I thought the choice of a purchased tiara specially for her was a good move by the king and queen, so that in case of divorce they don’t commit their heirloom. Having only one daughter in law, this solves all the issue of family jewels for this generation, and no one can say that Sofia had any different treatment to anyone else, as there are no other daughters in law.
Even so, the tiara, which I guess Sofia had a say in, is nothing very special. I find it slightly undelicate to be honest, with those big motifs. The choice of having emeralds makes it a bit strange for a wedding, but I guess this will become her go to tiara so needed the possibility of getting some colour in.
All this being said about the non special dress and non special tiara, there is no denying that Sofia was a beaming bride and CP looked like the happiest person! I like the couple they form.
I also liked the choice of flowers - it’s nice to see a wedding where not all flowers are white, and where there is some colour! Great choice in my opinion.
A strange choice of waltz as well but having the name of the bride, who can blame them for having chosen it! odd choice of song to exit the church, i have to admit though... very unroyal, but at least authentic.
I wonder if we will get some pictures of the dress sofia changed to after the wedding – from the pictures the paparazzi took, she changed into a different dress for the private party, which may have been slightly more exciting.
I also liked sofia tapping on her new father in laws shoulder warmly at the banquet, and seeing Victoria shed a tear at the church – this family clearly look very united. They obviously have accepted sofia’s past and recognize the loving couple they make. I wonder if us, the public, will be as accepting.
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  #611  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I think you and many others are missing the point. The issue IS NOT COMMONERS. The problem is COMMON COMMONERS.

If I was Dutch I'd be proud as heck to have the former Maxima Zorregueta as my Queen. Same if I was Luxembourgish with Maria-Teresa Mestre. Neither of those women have "bloodlines" but there is nothing vulgar or common about them and their past and present conduct.

If you and the others don't know the difference I can't explain it to you.
MoonMaiden: You made me laugh with this comment. And, if a person doesn't understand "common", what can we say. And, I do agree, that there are some uncommon "commoners" in the royal families these days. And, I look forward to their continuing contributions. Queen Maxima, Prince Daniel, the Duchess of Cambridge, to name three.
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  #612  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
The music choices were along the same lines as his sisters weddings, and I would say that they are very much alike other church weddings here in Sweden. The bride and groom picks music that means something special to them. When it comes to the gospel song at the end of the ceremony, I think it was a pleasant surprise to most swedes who were watching. This kind of gospel music is very common in both the Church of Sweden and other churches. There are lots of really good gospel choirs here. They both sing during church services and give concerts, and most swedes like that kind of music.

I respect and understand that other countries have a different musical tradition, and might not like the swedish way of doing things. But as I said, here I think that most people appreciate the music that was chosen for the church ceremony.
Thanks for mentioning that. I certainly think the context of these things is important, so it's nice to hear about these things from a Swedish perspective! It's always interesting to hear what's common in weddings in different countries. I wouldn't have expected that gospel music would be common in Sweden, but I think it's lovely that it is - I certainly like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viv View Post
! It was absolutely unsuitable for a procession! As someone
else mentioned, church music is composed 'soli deo gloria', for the
glory of God.
Music for church rituals & services should reflect this,
and it can be done in several ways using both classical as well as
modern music, as long as it doesn't clash with the Gospel and the
liturgy and the nature of the event itself.
It should also be possible to include a suitable song/solo piece
of personal choice.
However at the end of the day a church wedding is not about the
bridal couple displaying their inventiveness and stage managing
abilities! That should be left to the celebration afterwards!

That said, the bride was beautiful and it was heart warming
to watch the happiness of the couple! And let's give Sofia a
chance! I wouldn't be surprised if she'd turn out to be an asset
for the Swedish RF - as long a she doesn't mess too much with
future ecclesiastical events .



Queen Margrethe has a certain look when not amused! I agree
that it was a wise decision of the TV producers to omit close-ups
of the royals during the exit!
Perhaps people have different ideas of how music should glorify God. The pop songs have no religious basis, which is a large part of the reason I dislike when they're included in weddings. But "Joyful, Joyful" is obviously adapted from a hymn of praise. The arrangement might not be to everyone's tastes, but if people think it's alright to have classical music or even modern music that isn't of religious influence, why on earth should gospel music be objectionable? I mean, I'm an Episcopalian who is accustomed to singing traditional hymns in church, but I don't see a gospel arrangement as bringing any less glory to God whatsoever. I realize it has to do with people's own tastes and traditions, but apparently gospel choirs are common in Sweden, and I know in the United States I've seen them incorporated into all kinds of services and in a variety of different denominations.

For me, the recessional was beautiful because it felt truly "Joyful" indeed. A great way to incorporate religious music in a celebratory way.
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  #613  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:29 PM
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Yes I mean Carl Philip feels that Sofia is the Right One for him. No matter what anyone else thinks. And at a much later point in the future Carl Philip and Sofia may or May Not be expected to attend events on behalf of their Queen. Perhaps Madeleine and her husband would be expected to do this. We will just have to wait and see.
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  #614  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casualfan View Post
You know what struck me watching the recessional? Many of those "born royals" we're cheering and clapping (and smiling and clearly enjoying the moment) just as much as the non-born royals. So, what are we all talking about here??

Edited to add: I liked how Sofia and Carl Philip are clearly respectful of and respected by courtiers - she thanked the staffer carrying her skirt and who placed the train in the carriage, he shared a warm moment with the adjutant who handed him his gloves while he was in the carriage (he has forgotten them on the recessional).
I will say, although I disliked several of the music choices and found them a bit uncomfortable, I did notice that many of the royals seemed to be quite into it - several of the royals (born royal or not) seemed to be quite moved by "Fix You," and there was definitely some clapping during the recessional. I may not have liked all of it (and there were definitely a couple of people who I would've enjoyed seeing some close-up reactions of, such as Queen Margrethe and Prince Edward), but most of the congregation, including the royals, seem to go with it just fine. And if the bride and groom are happy, and their guests are happy, then that seems like a pretty good wedding to me!
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  #615  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
I don't know about Queen Margrethe but she looked "merry" and a bit "absent" during the whole ceremony, so I think her facial expression didn't change.....
She seemed a bit off to me throughout the whole thing, like maybe she was injured or something. She wobbled or limped a bit on the orange carpet on the way to the church. She seemed to be leaning heavily on the stone railing of the staircase while they were lining up for the large group photo. And somewhere I saw a photo that looked she was sitting down on a gold chair, with Mary and possible Frederick talking to her.

As for the candid photos of the dance taken through the palace windows, I dislike purely on the grounds that they seem voyeuristic and stalker-ish, and I wish people wouldn't encourage that kind of photography by posting the photos. (Same with the photos of Prince George taken at the window of Buckingham Palace during the Trooping of the Colour).
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  #616  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:53 PM
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am i also the only one who thought that royal representation at this wedding was suspiciously low? to madeleine's there was more and higher ranking royalty attending:

for greece, The Crown Prince and Crown Princess of Greece came along with Prince Nikolaos and Princess Tatiana of Greece and Denmark, Philippos and Theodora, this time it was Prince Nikolaos and Princess Tatiana of Greece and Denmark. luxembourg sent representation (The Hereditary Grand Duke and Hereditary Grand Duchess of Luxembourg). monaco sent representation (The Princess of Monaco)
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  #617  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I think you and many others are missing the point. The issue IS NOT COMMONERS. The problem is COMMON COMMONERS.

If I was Dutch I'd be proud as heck to have the former Maxima Zorregueta as my Queen. Same if I was Luxembourgish with Maria-Teresa Mestre. Neither of those women have "bloodlines" but there is nothing vulgar or common about them and their past and present conduct.

If you and the others don't know the difference I can't explain it to you.

No I'm not missing the point and your comments just reek of elitism.

Yes Sofia has a past, many people do. The difference is no one is posting their past on the front pages. She's not still posing topless or in skimpy clothing. Everyone needs to move on.

Did I like the music? No. That doesn't make Sofia 'common'. The whole royal family appear to have had a great time...maybe they were just slumming it.


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  #618  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:58 PM
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I thought this wedding was a lot of fun to watch. The bride was beautiful, the groom looked thrilled and everyone seemed to have a wonderful time.

I thought it was great to watch and look forward to watching Princess Sofia adapt to her role over the next several months.


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  #619  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:59 PM
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Prince Carl Philip of Sweden and Sofia Hellqvist: June 13, 2015

Nothing that happened during the wedding ceremony would be deemed inappropriate, chocking or even unusual to anyone in Sweden. The royal setting aside it was a normal Swedish wedding where music was used to celebrate the love between the bridal couple. For the Church of Sweden it has been a standard for the last 30-40 years to, within certain boundaries use music and poetry to give a personal touch.


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  #620  
Old 06-14-2015, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
Perhaps people have different ideas of how music should glorify God. The pop songs have no religious basis, which is a large part of the reason I dislike when they're included in weddings. But "Joyful, Joyful" is obviously adapted from a hymn of praise. The arrangement might not be to everyone's tastes, but if people think it's alright to have classical music or even modern music that isn't of religious influence, why on earth should gospel music be objectionable? I mean, I'm an Episcopalian who is accustomed to singing traditional hymns in church, but I don't see a gospel arrangement as bringing any less glory to God whatsoever. I realize it has to do with people's own tastes and traditions, but apparently gospel choirs are common in Sweden, and I know in the United States I've seen them incorporated into all kinds of services and in a variety of different denominations.

For me, the recessional was beautiful because it felt truly "Joyful" indeed. A great way to incorporate religious music in a celebratory way.
It's actually a gospel version of Beethovens 9'th symphony, "Ode an die freude". (As a side note, I've sung both versions and like them in their own way). You can listen to the whole original piece here. If you want to hear just the part that is adapted, it starts at around 7:20.
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