News about the Wedding of Prince and Princess of Asturias

[Chatleen]

Originally posted by agm@May 21st, 2004 - 11:59 am
Bahrein's Crown Prince Sheikh Salman bin Hamad Al-Khalifa waves to photographers upon his arrival at Madrid's Barajas airport 21 May 2004 on the eve of Spanish Crown Prince Felipe of Bourbon and former journalist Letizia Ortiz' wedding ceremony .

Bahrein's Crown Prince Sheikh Salman bin Hamad Al-Khalifa

It surprises me, that leaders from non-democratic countries are invited to a royal wedding in a democratic country

 

[Jann]

It surprises me, that leaders from non-democratic countries are invited to a royal wedding in a democratic country   

Why?

 

[Chatleen]

Originally posted by Jann@May 21st, 2004 - 1:55 pm

It surprises me, that leaders from non-democratic countries are invited to a royal wedding in a democratic country   

Why?

A wedding is not really a state visit, but a happy gathering with family and friends. For royals that includes leaders of other countries. But I see it as a wrong signal to invite leaders, who suppresses their populations.

It reminds me of the swedish king and his recent remarks, which didn't particularly make him popular in his own country

 

[Jann]

Thanks for the clarification although I disagree.

It reminds me of the swedish king and his recent remarks, which didn't particularly make him popular in his own country

Again, why? I do not know his recent remarks.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by Chatleen+May 21st, 2004 - 1:05 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chatleen @ May 21st, 2004 - 1:05 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jann@May 21st, 2004 - 1:55 pm

It surprises me, that leaders from non-democratic countries are invited to a royal wedding in a democratic country   

Why?

A wedding is not really a state visit, but a happy gathering with family and friends. For royals that includes leaders of other countries. But I see it as a wrong signal to invite leaders, who suppresses their populations.

It reminds me of the swedish king and his recent remarks, which didn't particularly make him popular in his own country [/b][/quote]
I'm sorry, but since when has Bahrein surpressed it's people? I'm confused. Could you please explain you logic??

 

[Chatleen]

Originally posted by Jann@May 21st, 2004 - 2:10 pm
Thanks for the clarification although I disagree.

It reminds me of the swedish king and his recent remarks, which didn't particularly make him popular in his own country

Again, why? I do not know his recent remarks.

In february, when the swedish king and queen visited Brunei, the king made some favourable remarks on the sultan and his relations with the population:

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/verden/article184342.ece

Afterwards he had to apologize as a consequence of criticism put forward by several Swedes. In this article, a professor even argues, that the king ought to abdicate:

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/verden/article184466.ece

 

[Chatleen]

Originally posted by Jann@May 21st, 2004 - 2:10 pm
Thanks for the clarification although I disagree.

Why do you disagree?

 

[Bubbette]

Originally posted by Chatleen+May 21st, 2004 - 12:52 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chatleen @ May 21st, 2004 - 12:52 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-agm@May 21st, 2004 - 11:59 am
Bahrein's Crown Prince Sheikh Salman bin Hamad Al-Khalifa waves to photographers upon his arrival at Madrid's Barajas airport 21 May 2004 on the eve of Spanish Crown Prince Felipe of Bourbon and former journalist Letizia Ortiz' wedding ceremony .

Bahrein's Crown Prince Sheikh Salman bin Hamad Al-Khalifa

It surprises me, that leaders from non-democratic countries are invited to a royal wedding in a democratic country [/b][/quote]
Interesting, but since they trade with them, why wouldn't they?

 

[Chatleen]

Originally posted by Athena@May 21st, 2004 - 2:15 pm
I'm sorry, but since when has Bahrein surpressed it's people? I'm confused. Could you please explain you logic??

It was not my intention to turn this board into a discussion of human rights etc. But I honestly find it remarkable, that the SRF with its previous relations to former dictator Franco to be on friendly terms with an now reigning absolute monarch. That's all.

As to Bahrein, just to give an example of the suppression of the people:

The following states are still not party to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women: Afghanistan, Bahrein, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Djibouti, Holy See, Iran, Kazakhstan, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Monaco, Nauru, Niger, Niue, Palau, Qatar, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Sudan, Swaziland, Syria, Tonga, Tuvalu, United Arab Emirates and the United States of America.

(source: http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGIOR400121997)

 

[Jann]

Lots of points to make!

Firstly, thanks for the links. I shall check them later.

A wedding is not really a state visit, but a happy gathering with family and friends. For royals that includes leaders of other countries. But I see it as a wrong signal to invite leaders, who suppresses their populations.

A wdding may well be just friends and family for some people, but for others it also includes business associates, those people who have to be invited because somebody else was invited etc. In royal circles, the list gets long. It is also an occasion at which people can talk behind the scenes without the pressure of media (for example) reporting the outcome of meetings with an acknowledged agenda. There are no political reprecussions to worry about but an opportunity for (how I hate this word) networking.

A wrong signal? No, I don't think so. So much can be resoved through discussion and compromise. The doors should always be kept open to this.

And with respect to Bahrain - well, democracy in the middle east is not as advanced as elsewhere however, Bahrain isn't one of the worst. Added to which, not everyone shares the US philosophy of exporting democracy and valuing it as much as they (the Americans) do.

Granted, 'suppressing populations' is slightly different from actual democracy. Again, Bahrain (your example) is not one of the worst offenders. It happens all over the world to one extent or another. This doesn't make it right, but it doesn't preclude attendance at a wedding.

I could go on for longer but this gives you an overview of my thoughts.

 

[Jann]

As to Bahrein, just to give an example of the suppression of the people:

QUOTE 
The following states are still not party to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women: Afghanistan, Bahrein, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Djibouti, Holy See, Iran, Kazakhstan, Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Monaco, Nauru, Niger, Niue, Palau, Qatar, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Sudan, Swaziland, Syria, Tonga, Tuvalu, United Arab Emirates and the United States of America.

Additionally, not being a signatory of CEDAW does not automatically mean the suppression of people. The list you have provided is not comprehensive. If we are woring on the basis of exclusion for not signing treaties, there are a few others that I personally believe should rank higher than CEDAW, as important as it may be.

But as you say, this is not the board for such a discussion.

 

[Amira]

MADRID, Spain: Moroccan Prince Moulay Rachid, brother of King Mohammed VI, waves to photographers upon his arrival at Torrejon de Ardoz military airport 21 May 2004 on the eve of Spanish Crown Prince's wedding to former journalist Letizia Ortiz

Prince Moulay Rachid of Morocco

 

[Chatleen]

Originally posted by Jann@May 21st, 2004 - 2:50 pm
Lots of points to make!

Firstly, thanks for the links. I shall check them later.

A wedding is not really a state visit, but a happy gathering with family and friends. For royals that includes leaders of other countries. But I see it as a wrong signal to invite leaders, who suppresses their populations.

A wdding may well be just friends and family for some people, but for others it also includes business associates, those people who have to be invited because somebody else was invited etc. In royal circles, the list gets long. It is also an occasion at which people can talk behind the scenes without the pressure of media (for example) reporting the outcome of meetings with an acknowledged agenda. There are no political reprecussions to worry about but an opportunity for (how I hate this word) networking.

A wrong signal? No, I don't think so. So much can be resoved through discussion and compromise. The doors should always be kept open to this.

And with respect to Bahrain - well, democracy in the middle east is not as advanced as elsewhere however, Bahrain isn't one of the worst. Added to which, not everyone shares the US philosophy of exporting democracy and valuing it as much as they (the Americans) do.

Granted, 'suppressing populations' is slightly different from actual democracy. Again, Bahrain (your example) is not one of the worst offenders. It happens all over the world to one extent or another. This doesn't make it right, but it doesn't preclude attendance at a wedding.

I could go on for longer but this gives you an overview of my thoughts.

Thankey for the overview of your thoughts I actually agree with you in many ways. The big difference is though, that I see it as a job for democratic elected politicians to do the networking with the less democratic ones.

Mayby it is a matter of national culture. I live in Denmark, and here it is a balancing act for the royal family not to interfere in anything, that can be regarded as a part of the political sphere.

 

[Jann]

I actually agree with you in many ways. The big difference is though, that I see it as a job for democratic elected politicians to do the networking with the less democratic ones.

Mayby it is a matter of national culture. I live in Denmark, and here it is a balancing act for the royal family not to interfere in anything, that can be regarded as a part of the political sphere

Now it is my turn to agree with you. But think of it this way:

Whilst royals (in europe, at least) traditionally do not interfere in politics, they do have diplomatic roles.

Also, elected politicians do attend the weddings of royals - this is always the case in their own countries and if they don't have their own royals they are likely to be invited as their countries representatives to the wedding of royals in other countries. Absolute rulers can represent their countries abroad and therefore meet the royals and politicians.

Therefore the democratically elected meet the less democratic representatives.

Reading through this, I seem to imply that an awful lot of socialising goes on! I don't think it is quite as much as that however the key is that there does exist the opportunity.

 

[Chatleen]

Originally posted by Jann@May 21st, 2004 - 3:09 pm
Reading through this, I seem to imply that an awful lot of socialising goes on! I don't think it is quite as much as that however the key is that there does exist the opportunity.

I'll let that one be the finishing line of this discussion

Best wishes

 

[Humera]

Originally posted by Amira@May 21st, 2004 - 2:01 pm
MADRID, Spain: Moroccan Prince Moulay Rachid, brother of King Mohammed VI, waves to photographers upon his arrival at Torrejon de Ardoz military airport 21 May 2004 on the eve of Spanish Crown Prince's wedding to former journalist Letizia Ortiz

Prince Moulay Rachid of Morocco

Are no women from the moroccan royal family coming to the wedding? Either the King's sisters or his wife?

 

[Gabriella]

Is tomorrow going to be a tiara wedding or a hat wedding? Excuse my ignorance, but I really don't know. What is the protocol for wearing tiaras vs. hats? Is it just the decision of the bride and groom, does it have something to do with the time of day, or is it determined by something else?

 

[samitude]

A hat wedding because it's in the morning at 11:00 a.m.

 

[Gabriella]

Originally posted by samitude@May 21st, 2004 - 9:35 pm
A hat wedding because it's in the morning at 11:00 a.m.

Thank you. So in the mornings they wear hats and the afternoons they wear tiaras?

 

[Alisa]

For my fellow Americans :

Univision will be re-airing the wedding at 3pm EST/2pm CEN :flower:

 

[Queen of Portugal]

will they be showing the wedding inthe united states.. I am unable to pull up the skandanavian link .. and in response to your hats vs tiaras.. she has not been made a princess yet .. so .. she will not wear a tiara is this correct?

 

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by Queen of Portugal@May 21st, 2004 - 9:46 pm
will they be showing the wedding inthe united states.. I am unable to pull up the skandanavian link .. and in response to your hats vs tiaras.. she has not been made a princess yet .. so .. she will not wear a tiara is this correct?

I think Letizia will wear a tiara at her wedding tomorrow. Mary wore a tiara 2 days before she "officially" became a princess.

 

[Humble]

Originally posted by Alexandria+May 21st, 2004 - 8:49 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alexandria @ May 21st, 2004 - 8:49 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Queen of Portugal@May 21st, 2004 - 9:46 pm
will they be showing the wedding inthe united states.. I am unable to pull up the skandanavian link ..  and in response to your hats vs tiaras.. she has not been made a princess yet .. so .. she will not wear a tiara is this correct?

I think Letizia will wear a tiara at her wedding tomorrow. Mary wore a tiara 2 days before she "officially" became a princess. [/b][/quote]
It will be disappointing if Letizia does not wear a tiara on her wedding day....she is a queen to-be...The palace should give her one (new/old..does not matter)

 

[Alisa]

Letizia will wear a tiara tomorrow. She will be the only woman doing so. :flower:

 

[Alisa]

Mary wore a tiara 2 days before she "officially" became a princess.

So did Princess Alexandra. Also Máxima months before she became a princess.

 

[Humble]

Originally posted by Alisa@May 21st, 2004 - 8:54 pm
Letizia will wear a tiara tomorrow. She will be the only woman doing so. :flower:

what made you say she will be the only one...was it written in the invitation that guests (women) should not wear tiaras...I am curious

 

[Dennism]

Watched a little bit of the greetings and the opening part of the banquet tonight. It was a shame it rained. Sofia had to hike up her skirt. Well, anyway, the stood outside for about two minutes and then they went into line to greet the people. Kind of boring but it is always cool to see royals in motion. Nice. I think the commentators noted that Letizia hug her grandmom for a long time. But they was nice of her so I hope they did not say anything bad. It was neat watching some of the royals arrived. I saw Philippe and Mathilde arrive. Then they showed the Norwegians too. A strange moment happened after Letizia and Mette-Marit talked. They seemed chummy but then Letizia made this hand gesture. Maybe it´s a gesture for someone to call you or write to you. But when I first saw it, and she changed her facial expression too, it seemed like it was "Keep on moving. I don´t want to talk to you." But I doubt it was that. Anyway, they went around to the various tables. Some interesting seating. Nelseon Mandela was at the same table as Queen Paola, Carl Gustaf, Queen Sofia and Queen Silvia. Most interesting placement was that of Prince Albert between Mette-Marit and Madeleine. King Juan Carlos looks like a great story teller, I must say. It was neat to watch this.

 

[Queen of Portugal]

WELL i CERTAINLY HOPE THEY INVITE THE KING OF PORTUGAL AND HOUSE OF BRAGANCA.. SINCE.. THEY ARE RIGHT NEXT DOOR.. ALSO i WAS NOT ABLE TO PULL UP THE GUEST AND DINNER LIST. .ONLY GOT A BLANK SCREEN ....

 

[tiaraprin]

I wonder if any Middle Eastern Royalty will be invited?? When Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece married, King Hussein and Queen Noor were there.

 

[sandee]

Does anyone know if Queen Elizabeth II ever attends royal events like weddings..cuz i never see any pictures of her attending these kinds of events. All the other kings and queens seem to always be..or am i wrong?