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  #41  
Old 07-26-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
True...but members of La Famille Princier as well?
It depends if Louis Ducruet is seen as a member of the princely House of Monaco, yes or no. Of course he absolutely is related to the Grimaldis. In my mind, rightly or wrongly, I always considered this as the princely House:
Le Prince
La Princesse
Le prince Jacques
La princesse Gabriella
La Princesse de Hannovre
La princesse Stéphanie

When with the princely House is meant: all successors, then this list can be tripled.
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  #42  
Old 07-26-2019, 04:49 PM
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Well, the Casiraghi cousins married at the palace, so seem to consider themselves part of the princely family and it is also the way they present themselves so for example the national day. Moreover, I don't think other Monagasque citizens can decide to marry at the palace.

I'd say your list is the House of Grimaldi, the longer list is the Princely Family.
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  #43  
Old 07-26-2019, 06:10 PM
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https://www.gala.fr/l_actu/news_de_s...e-faire_432721

Michaël Ducruet, wedding witness of his brother Louis: "This is the best gift he can give me"
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  #44  
Old 07-26-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It depends if Louis Ducruet is seen as a member of the princely House of Monaco, yes or no. Of course he absolutely is related to the Grimaldis. In my mind, rightly or wrongly, I always considered this as the princely House:
Le Prince
La Princesse
Le prince Jacques
La princesse Gabriella
La Princesse de Hannovre
La princesse Stéphanie

When with the princely House is meant: all successors, then this list can be tripled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Well, the Casiraghi cousins married at the palace, so seem to consider themselves part of the princely family and it is also the way they present themselves so for example the national day. Moreover, I don't think other Monagasque citizens can decide to marry at the palace.

I'd say your list is the House of Grimaldi, the longer list is the Princely Family.

Under the house laws, the following are members of the Sovereign Family:

The Sovereign Prince or Princess
The consort of the Sovereign
The parents of the Sovereign
Members of the Sovereign's family as far as the third degree of kinship, inclusive, who have the right to the throne
Their spouses
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  #45  
Old 07-27-2019, 03:12 AM
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You forget

The children of the sovereign


But Duc and Pair is right

The real princely family is now


Prince and Princess

Jacques and gabriella


The sisters of the prince , daughter of a prince


It is aesy to see that


Since 2017, the places of every body have changed in the honor yard


In the yard, honor place


The prince and princess


Princess Caroline and prince Stéphanie


The nephews and nièces of Prince Albert, the Charlene 's family , all Prince Albert's family are in the Hercules Galerie


Louis is 15th in the line of sucession,
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  #46  
Old 07-27-2019, 03:38 AM
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In the courtyyard theere wee too many people. Albert consider her sisters and their children as Always.
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  #47  
Old 07-27-2019, 04:09 AM
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No there were not too many people in the courtyard, it is the protocole now there is a new bloodline, who is the legitimate children and direct heirs of Albert and they will surely be in the courtyard when they will ba at the age to attend the 'prise d'armes'
It does not change the feelings of Albert towards his nephews and nièces
and only the prince and princesses skake the hands of the princely staff

In the honor place,

the blood linie of Albert and his sisters


At the mass mass of the national fest in the princely lodge


Prince and Princess, Princess caroline and princess Stéphanie


in face , the children of Carloline, os stephanie at the first line

behind the wifes and surely next husband of Charlotte and cousins



at the receptions of the ambassadors, only the ambassadors are shaking the hands of Albert and charlene, princess caroline arrives only for the diner of the ambassadors


At the Grand Prix, on the stage, before, there were Princess caroline and her sons and daughters , before the births of Jacques and Gabriella, Tatiana and Beatrice were with Andrea and Pierre,now there are only Pierre and Andrea with the princely couple

There is no article of the civil wedding of Louis in the newspaper 'Monaco Matin

The article being in the city hall , it was more easy to have pics of the wedding,

I think, we will have more photos to day, the religious wedding will be in the cathedrale, it will be more easy to have news and photos


Louis is the first of the grandchildren of Prince Rainier and Princess grace to marry in the cathedrale and to have the two cérémonies in Monaco, a respect to the monegash people , bravo!!!


the other grandchildren married away from Monaco and no photos were allowed
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  #48  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
Louis is the first of the grandchildren of Prince Rainier and Princess grace to marry in the cathedrale and to have the two cérémonies in Monaco, a respect to the monegash people , bravo!!!
Am I wrong in my impression that Louis is the only adult child of Caroline and Stephanie that lives full-time in Monaco?
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  #49  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:18 AM
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No, you are not wrong, he is working at the AS Monaco club and Marie is working at the SBM
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  #50  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:58 AM
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I took a walk up to the palace early yesterday afternoon but didn’t really see anything. ☹️Although there were loads of green balloons near the private entrance which I glimpsed once or twice when the gates opened .
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  #51  
Old 07-27-2019, 06:51 AM
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Pierre lives with her wife and children in Monaco. Pierre Is the president of Engeco and Monacair and other 3 companies. I would like to Remember that Andrea , Charlotte and Pierre are in succession line. At the end according what established by Prince's Rules, the sovrrain apponts his heir if the natural succession couldn't be executed. In Monaco rules are made by the Souvrain.

Perhaps there Is a exclusivity on wedding reportage. Daniel Ducruet was used to sell esclusivity.
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  #52  
Old 07-27-2019, 08:34 AM
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.

Here are the newlyweds - a wonderful photo:


** Wedding photo **
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  #53  
Old 07-27-2019, 08:34 AM
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The other grandchildren all had civil ceremonies in Monaco and shared photos officially.

The fact that they didn't have a second ceremony in Monaco is no disrespect to the Monegasque people just a different choice. They also shared official photos.

Two people get married - in all of the above the second person is not Monegasque, they have a right to a say in where they get married.

Beautiful picture of the married couple yesterday just released by Rosa Clara. Looking forward to seeing today's pics - anyone have any idea on timings.
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  #54  
Old 07-27-2019, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceflower View Post
.

Here are the newlyweds - a wonderful photo:


** Wedding photo **
Beautiful! Thank you iceflower...I had given up hope!
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  #55  
Old 07-27-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Under the house laws, the following are members of the Sovereign Family:

The Sovereign Prince or Princess
The consort of the Sovereign
The parents of the Sovereign
Members of the Sovereign's family as far as the third degree of kinship, inclusive, who have the right to the throne
Their spouses
So, Albert's nephew and nieces and their spouses, except for Camille, are officially members of the Sovereign's family as they have third degree of kinship. So, the Sovereign family grew by one member yesterday.

Note that their children are not members of the Sovereign Family although 6 out of 7 are in the line of succession.
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  #56  
Old 07-27-2019, 09:15 AM
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Everything happens in Monaco Caroline and her wonderful children are always called into questione. Envy is a such bad beast. However congratulations to Louis and Marie.
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  #57  
Old 07-27-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
You forget

The children of the sovereign
The house law includes them in the "three degrees of consanguinity".




Quote:
Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
Louis is 15th in the line of sucession,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaubert View Post
I would like to Remember that Andrea , Charlotte and Pierre are in succession line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
So, Albert's nephew and nieces and their spouses, except for Camille, are officially members of the Sovereign's family as they have third degree of kinship. So, the Sovereign family grew by one member yesterday.

Note that their children are not members of the Sovereign Family although 6 out of 7 are in the line of succession.
I am not so sure of that. The house laws state:
Article 24.

Without prejudice to the provisions of article 21, the marriage of a member of the Sovereign Family contracted without the authorization of the Reigning Prince excludes the one who contracted the marriage from the order of succession as well as his or her descendants.

[…]

The authorization according to the first paragraph is issued by Sovereign Decision.

Ordonnance Souveraine n° 5.344 du 2 juin 2015 portant statuts de la Famille Souveraine / Journal 8228 / Année 2015 / Journaux / Accueil - Journal de Monaco

I cannot find an ordinance in the Journal de Monaco or a public statement suggesting that a Sovereign Decision was issued ahead of the marriages of the Casiraghis or Louis Ducruet to allow them to remain in the order of succession. Is anybody aware of one?
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  #58  
Old 07-27-2019, 09:30 AM
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What's the problem? Caroline children and Stephanie children have choiced good persons and seem very happy. Albert as suovrain and uncle Is very happy. His speach during Charlotte's wedding tell how he is close to them. Let's enjoy .
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  #59  
Old 07-27-2019, 09:32 AM
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I hope it will be the most last possible, when Jacques will be prince sovereign , the nièces of the nephews , children of Caroline and Stéphanie will not be officialy members of the family, of course in the intimitat, they will be still cousins of the prince and her sister
The members will be the mother of the prince
His sister and future children of Gabriella
His aunts, princess caroline and Stéphanie

As the cousins De Massy, they are no more the members of the family since the death of Prince Rainier

Camille, and raphael are not the members of the officiallyfamily

Don't forget, it is Always the bloodline of the sovereign which counts first

Until the death of Prince Rainier , there was his blooodline which count first Prince Albert, Princess caroline and her children Stéphanie and her children , members of the officially family

After the death of Rainier, There was Albert as he did not have legitimat children, it was the bloodline of caroline which counted until the births of Jacques and gabriella

Now , it is the bloodline of prince Albert which is counting and it is why we saw these different places during the national fest in the honor places , the places of Albert, Charlene , princely couple and the places of Princess Caroline and Stéphanie who are the daughters of the former princes

They are at the second degree of kinship , all the nephews and nièces are at the third degrees of Kinship

Albert said in the book about him that his nephews did not ask him is they could marry, He said they asked him advices not else,
In the constitution if a member of the officialy family would marry without the permission of the sovereign, he would lost his place in the line of sucession
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  #60  
Old 07-27-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
I hope it will be the most last possible, when Jacques will be prince sovereign , the nièces of the nephews , children of Caroline and Stéphanie will not be officialy members of the family, of course in the intimitat, they will be still cousins of the prince and her sister
The members will be the mother of the prince
His sister and future children of Gabriella
His aunts, princess caroline and Stéphanie

As the cousins De Massy, they are no more the members of the family since the death of Prince Rainier

Camille, and raphael are not the members of the officiallyfamily

Don't forget, it is Always the bloodline of the sovereign which counts first

Until the death of Prince Rainier , there was his blooodline which count first Prince Albert, Princess caroline and her children Stéphanie and her children , members of the officially family

After the death of Rainier, There was Albert as he did not have legitimat children, it was the bloodline of caroline which counted until the births of Jacques and gabriella

Now , it is the bloodline of prince Albert which is counting and it is why we saw these different places during the national fest in the honor places , the places of Albert, Charlene , princely couple and the places of Princess Caroline and Stéphanie who are the daughters of the former princes

They are at the second degree of kinship , all the nephews and nièces are at the third degrees of Kinship
Why would custom change when Jacques becomes the reigning Prince?

Of course, they won't be official members of the Princely Family - they will have the same position as the De Massys do now. Which doesn't mean we won't see them around...


Interesting that permission wasn't asked for - of course, that doesn't mean that he didn't permit the marriages or that they have lost their places in the succession I guess it shows that they are fully aware their future is not to rule Monaco.


Mods - should this discussion be in a different thread? Is there one for the succession in Monaco? We seem to be hijacking the wedding discussion at the moment.
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