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  #2481  
Old 07-29-2010, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
This marriage is a farse I have never been sadder before
The future Swedish Monarch should not marry a commoner She should have learnt from the mistake of her father
Now the Swedish Monarchy is in danger and it may be abolished soon
Well, everyone is entitled to his own option even if most people wouldn't agree with it. After reading your posts on this board, I just wonder why so much hater towards SRF?
The members of SRF seem to be loved and the wedding was a occasion the whole country has lived with, so I doubt that most Swedes are sharing your views on their royal family.
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  #2482  
Old 07-29-2010, 06:03 AM
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Robe Tiber Manuel Mota
Robe Chabeli Manuel Mota

I just found it out from ikipedia by chance. Just take a look at these dresses! Manuel Mota's last year collection from Pronovias. I am disappointed by Par Engsheden. Really.
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  #2483  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Katelle View Post
Robe Tiber Manuel Mota
Robe Chabeli Manuel Mota

I just found it out from ikipedia by chance. Just take a look at these dresses! Manuel Mota's last year collection from Pronovias. I am disappointed by Par Engsheden. Really.
Wow! The collars and the backs are almost identical to the princess' gown!
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  #2484  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Katelle View Post
Robe Tiber Manuel Mota
Robe Chabeli Manuel Mota

I just found it out from ikipedia by chance. Just take a look at these dresses! Manuel Mota's last year collection from Pronovias. I am disappointed by Par Engsheden. Really.
The idea about the front of the colar is the same on the second pic, that's it.
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  #2485  
Old 07-29-2010, 07:21 PM
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i just finished this wonderful thread that i enjoyed so much! so thank you for all the information and pictures...
victoria, one of my favorite cps, looked stunning with her beauty, confidence, and elegance, not to forget her charming smile and happiness. the wedding was just like a dream or a fairytale, a wedding that i will always remember. so thank you sweden...
i enjoyed looking at the various dresses, tiaras and jewels of the srf and their royal guests. and i am not here to criticize the royal outfits (who looked bad and who looked perfect?) or give excuses for q. rania who was much criticised...but for the lovely young p. iman, i must say that she was pretty annoying, she was just like (a rose without water) and if she continues to show in that way and she often does, she would certainly be a bad ambassador for jordan. other than that, i enjoyed seeing all the royal guests specially the jordanian royals.
some observations, i would be appriciated if i get some aswers:
1: why it was only p. edward who was putting his sash on his left shoulder?
2: what was the order that ari behn was putting around his neck? its orange
Iltalehti | Kuvagalleria
3: why were p. albert and cp. naruhito not in uniform?
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  #2486  
Old 07-29-2010, 08:11 PM
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The Royal Family of Sweden is losing its popularity Just have a look at the recent statistics, Jonc93
Silvia has done nothing wrong She is a good woman But she's a commoner
I'm a monarchist and I believe that at least the Crown Prince or Princess, the future Monarch, must marry into Royalty
Many of us believe that all these commoners, that invaded the European royal families the last 50 years or so, are sent by the Devil to eliminate and vitiate the Monarchy
I'm not sure yet if I believe in this theory But what shall any rational person think of these women? Just remember the current Crown Princesses
These are our beliefs and opinions You shouldn't expect from someone like me to think like you or express similar opinions
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  #2487  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:21 PM
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What? The devil?? Okay..
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  #2488  
Old 07-29-2010, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
Someone's posted HD videos of the wedding. I don't think it's complete but it seems to have all the main parts. You'll probably have to watch it on youtube for the HD.

One day I will be able to watch this entire video without crying...but it will not be anytime soon! I don't think I have ever seen a more beautiful wedding in my life...Royal or otherwise. How adorable and well behaved were Victoria's little attendants??

Congratulations Sweden....WELL DONE!!

And PLEASE someone email me when or if a video of the entire wedding ever becomes available...I will definitely purchase it!
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  #2489  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
The Royal Family of Sweden is losing its popularity Just have a look at the recent statistics, Jonc93
Silvia has done nothing wrong She is a good woman But she's a commoner
I'm a monarchist and I believe that at least the Crown Prince or Princess, the future Monarch, must marry into Royalty
Many of us believe that all these commoners, that invaded the European royal families the last 50 years or so, are sent by the Devil to eliminate and vitiate the Monarchy
I'm not sure yet if I believe in this theory But what shall any rational person think of these women? Just remember the current Crown Princesses
These are our beliefs and opinions You shouldn't expect from someone like me to think like you or express similar opinions
Hi, Anne83. Before making my remarks, please let me assure you that I completely appreciate your viewpoint and in no way do I expect you to think as I do nor do I expect you to share my opinions. In fact, I salute you for having an opinion and expressing it.

As a long-time follower of the Swedish Royal Family, my opinions obviously do not match your own. I believe Queen Silvia's actions, track record, and reputation speak for themselves, so I won't be addressing her specifically in this post.

I am more interested in the fixation you have on "royals" versus "commoners" and the potential impact on the monarchy when an heir marries a commoner. As you are a self-proclaimed monarchist, I encourage you to use all of the resources available to us and research monarchies in general and the Swedish monarchy in particular.

In my own research I have come to understand that EVERY monarchy started from a leader who was victorious in battle, that is why most if not all monarchies for so long were male-dominant, as men were the ones who gained the glory on the battlefield because they were physically stronger. If the leader was not strong but had the most land (or cows, or what-not) many times they became the most wealthy and/or influential and were chosen as a leader for a particular group of people/village/territory and had to defend it to maintain it or hire people to do so.

Another way monarchies came into being was through the Roman Catholic Church. Because of a person or family's strong faith (usually exhibited in the form of a substantial monetary contribution to the church), the Pope would occasionally "elevate" them to "princely status" thus making them and their descendants "suitable" for marriage into other royal families. This also was the origin for the "God-given right", "by the grace of God", "anointed by God" phrases in many coronations and titles. The monarch determines his/her style and title and somewhere along the way, to add legitimacy to his/her claim, they added the blessing of "God" as the reason why he/she was the most legitimate claimant, as most people blindly followed the church (whatever church) and its leaders.

Unfortunately, your position on royal-royal marriages was once held by most of the royal families which resulted in extensive inbreeding. This inbreeding has been scientifically proven to risk mental and physical birth defects and because society is more educated about science, most countries have specific laws regarding marrying of one's relatives limiting it to a certain number of generations (usually more than two) difference before a license is granted to marry.

Regarding commoners being sent by the devil to eliminate monarchies or in their capability to destroy a system of government, it would seem that the following monarchies might disprove that theory as well as the presumption that the "commoners" have been "invading" the monarchies for the "last 50 years or so":

The genesis of our topic - Sweden:
Silvia Sommerlath, current consort, wife of Carl XVI Gustaf (wed in 1976) *Worked briefly as a flight attendant, worked in the Argentine consulate in Munich, was an educational host for the 1976 Summer Olympics, and was Deputy Head of Protocol for the Winter Games in Innsbruck. Fluent in six languages as well as Swedish sign language for the deaf.
Karin Månsdotter, wife of Eric XIV of Sweden (1567 morganatically, 1568 officially) *prior to wedding was a waitress at a tavern, maid for the king's sister, then mistress of the king
Helena Pedersdotter Strange, wife of Canute II of Sweden (1225, although exact year is not certain) *Often called Queen Elin, she was the daughter of a Danish knight


Norway:
Sonja Haraldsen, current consort, wife of Harald V (wed in 1968) *daughter of a wood merchant, she studied fashion design and obtained an undergraduate degree in French, English, and Art History in Oslo

Japan:
Michiko Shōda, current consort, wife of Emperor Akihito (wed in 1959) *daughter of an honorary chairman of a flour milling company, she met the then crown prince while playing tennis.

Spain:
Julie Clary, during the Bonaparte reign, wife of Napoleon's brother Joseph (Guiseppe) Bonaparte (wed in 1794) *Sister to the commoner Queen of Sweden Desiree, born Clary

Jordan:
Rania al Yassin, current consort, wife of Abdullah II (wed in 1993) *Worked briefly in banking with Citibank and IT with Apple Computers before meeting the then Crown Prince Abdullah.
Lisa Najeeb Halaby, last wife of Hussein (wed in 1978) *An American with a degree in Architecture and Urban Planning from Princeton University, became the Director of Facilities Planning and Design for an airline her father was commissioned by the Jordanian government to design.
Alia Baha ad-Din Touqan, 3rd wife of Hussein (wed in 1972) *Daughter of a Jordanian ambassador, worked for the Royal Jordanian Airlines.
Antoinette Avril Gardiner, 2nd wife of Hussein (wed in 1961) *Renamed Muna al-Hussein upon her marriage, she was working as a secretarial assistant when she met the King.

Morocco:
Salma Bennani, current consort, wife of Mohammed VI (wed in 2002) *Worked in IT before meeting the King

Lesotho:
Karabo Motsoeneng, current consort, wife of Letsie III (wed in 2000) *A student when she met the King, she continues her studies in biology

Malaysia (as well as some of its individual sultanates):
Rozita binti Adil Bakeri, current consort, wife of Sultan Mizan Zainal Abidin of Terengganu and current Yang di-Puertan Agong (King) of Malaysia (wed in 1996) *Known as Sultanah Nur Zahirah after her wedding

England:
Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, wife of King George VI (wed in 1923) *More commonly known as The Queen Mum, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother is the mother of the current British monarch, Queen Elizabeth II. Although the daughter of a British peer, legally she was born, and on the day she married was still, a commoner.
Elizabeth Woodville, wife and Queen Consort of Edward IV (wed in 1464) *The first commoner to marry an English sovereign.

The current royal family of Sweden - the Bernadottes - descend from the commoner French general Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte and his commoner wife, Desiree Clary. This commoner was the adopted heir of a childless monarch after political/military/influential leaders of Sweden elected him as the new heir. While this "election" of a crown prince may be strange, remember that many monarchies were due to elections or appointments by the winning allied powers in wars, including the defunct royal house of Greece and the current royal house of Norway. In fact, Prince Edward, the Earl of Wessex, was offered to become king of Estonia at one point, but he declined.

In more modern times, the criteria you give for the potential success of a monarchy (royal-royal marriages) has been proven wrong in Russia, Austria, Brazil, France, Greece, Mexico, Portugal, Romania, all of the territorial kindoms, duchies, counties, and principalities - as well as the united kingdom - of Italy, all of the territorial kingdoms, grand duchies, counties, and principalities - as well as the united empire - of Germany, and Bulgaria.

If you are still reading this, Anne83, I repeat that I don't intend for you to think as I do. I just provide you with all of this information and invite you to consider that other possibilities could have caused the downfall of the eleven forementioned countries. I can think of at least two - ineffective leadership by the monarch himself and/or outside political/ideological forces that gained greater influence among the people of the country.

I haven't researched every one of those countries, but as far as I know none of them (including Greece with the much-reviled Queen Frederika) ceased to exist because of anything to do with the consort of the king.

Obviously I have gone WAY TOO FAR to provide evidence as to why I feel/believe the way I do. I'm sure that the other posters suggesting you provide evidence of why you feel the way you do would be happy with just one or two reasons. Just a thought?

Rascal
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  #2490  
Old 07-30-2010, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
...
...after political/military/influential leaders of Sweden elected him as the new heir. While this "election" of a crown prince may be strange, ...
Worth to remeber is that Sweden in its core is an elective Monarchy (iow the King used to be elected for life) and that didn't change until Gustav I. After that the Riskdag seems to work under the assupmtion we still are but for the life of the dynasty not the king and that they took over the right to elect one from the Tings (wich is logical since they took over the legisative power from them). So each time the crown can't be passed to a close relative the Riksdag (often on the advice of the King\rulling Queen) have elected an heir.

Wich pretty much make the royals to be assumed to be the best OF us and not a completly seprate breed.
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  #2491  
Old 07-30-2010, 05:50 AM
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Very interresting post. Thank you, Rascal.
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  #2492  
Old 07-30-2010, 11:13 AM
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Thank You Rascal for that very interesting post, a prince/princess is still human they cannot help who they fall in love with, and whoever it is they should not be criticised for it.
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  #2493  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:13 PM
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Thanks for the input, janb. I completely overlooked the fact that in the past, the Riksdag had "elected" the next monarch when situations other than the Bernadotte one existed. Thanks again for the reminder!

Rascal

P.S. to all - I didn't really feel that this discussion was part of this particular thread but responded here because Anne83 posted his/her beliefs in this thread as well as the one on Prince Carl-Philip's love life. In that thread, the moderator suggested two other threads and posted links to them so that the thread could remain on task. I agree and hope that if the discussion continues, we all may choose to do so in those threads rather than this.
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  #2494  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:00 AM
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I heard (I think it was some program on ZDF) that the Duchess of Cornwall didn't attend because Victoria didn't go to her's and and Prince Charles's wedding..Do you think that's true? My German isn't perfect so I might have 'mistranslated' it in my head. I'll see if I can find the clip so a native speaker can confirm.
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  #2495  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:38 AM
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I didn't even know that Victoria was invited to the wedding.
Just another rumour IMO, Charles was ill that week, he had missed several rather huge BRF events so I didn't expect him to attend.
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  #2496  
Old 07-31-2010, 04:55 AM
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I heard (I think it was some program on ZDF) that the Duchess of Cornwall didn't attend because Victoria didn't go to her's and and Prince Charles's wedding..Do you think that's true? My German isn't perfect so I might have 'mistranslated' it in my head. I'll see if I can find the clip so a native speaker can confirm.
It was speculation from the people commenting on ZDF. Apparently Victoria opened an Ikea-House at the day of Charles and Camilla's marriage. And the speculated if this was now the revenge of Charles and Camilla.
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  #2497  
Old 07-31-2010, 10:10 PM
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From what I remember MOST of Europe's Royal Houses did not send representation to Charles and Camilla's wedding...why snub Victoria?

It's worked out better with the Wessexes there anyway...I can't picture Charles and Camilla at that wedding.
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  #2498  
Old 08-03-2010, 07:10 PM
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I wonder what the source for the $100.000 price tag is, please?
Strikes me as quite improbable. The costs for real haute couture lie besides in the label itself and the fabrics mostly in the working hours for doing every step of the working process, last but not least time-consuming beading and embroidery, by hand; in that regard, the wedding dress was plain indeed. Of course everything was handmade, but haute couture is also defined by craftsmanship, and Engesheden simply does not do haute couture.

While I'm glad that the dress is timeless, it's also a design with has been a regular in different variations for ages, and there is no particular detailing in the design which signifies that the Crown Princess of Sweden was the wearer.
In terms of craftsmanship, the bodice has no perfect fit, the seams at the bust do not show great expertise, and I don't like how the train is so very visibly made of three panels. The collar is anchored quite perfectly though, the silhouette flatters CP Victoria, and the back and side views of the gown are beautiful, in contrast to the view from the front.

With Queen Silvia having chosen Dior for her wedding dress, and with CP Victoria's complete wedding week wardrobe by Elie Saab, I'm certain that no-one would have minded in the least if Victoria had chosen an international designer.
But compared to quite a few evening gowns Engesheden has made for the Crown Princess which simply do not hold up, he did a good, tasteful job within his limitations and certainly also according to the bride's wishes.
I have to agreee with all you say - the price tag was posted earlier on in this thread by a poster from Sweden .THis analysis is brilliant
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  #2499  
Old 08-03-2010, 07:39 PM
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Who in the British royal family attended CP Victoria and Prince Daniel's wedding?
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  #2500  
Old 08-03-2010, 08:11 PM
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Who in the British royal family attended CP Victoria and Prince Daniel's wedding?
The Earl and Countess of Wessex
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