The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #181  
Old 01-14-2017, 04:13 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,073
Yes, Anna is no Princess of Belgium but definitely an Archduchess of Austria-Este and the whole rambam.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 01-14-2017, 06:49 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
Countessmeout: Please re-read the royal decree and the articles which I posted.

Titles of the Belgian Royal Family


Nowhere is there a statement that descendants who are not Princes(ses) of Belgium (Astrid's and Laurent's grandchildren) will have no Belgian royal title.

Articles 1-3 of the decree deal with the title Prince(ss) of Belgium.
Article 4 states: "The Princes and Princesses, in direct descent from His Majesty Leopold [I] of Saxe-Coburg, who are not mentioned in articles 1-3, carry after their first name, and their family name if they carry it, the titles which their ancestry gives them the right to."

Supposing that King Philippe decided the descendants "not mentioned in articles 1-3" (not Princes(ses) of Belgium) would have no Belgian royal title, why would article 4 be in the decree, and who would be "the Princes and Princesses" in article 4?


Additionally, Belgian media that talked to the Palace after the Royal Decree reported that (some of?) Astrid's and Laurent's grandchildren will be Princes(ses) even though they will not be Princes(ses) of Belgium.


If the spokesman who confirmed the title of Princess had been recognizing Anna Astrid's titles of pretense (Princess of Austria, Princess of Hungary, etc.), I don't think he would have added that "she may assume other titles in due course".


Quote:
Her title is
Her imperial and royal highness archduchess Anna astrid of Austria-este, princess of Modena.
The title on her birth certificate is HI&RH Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este.
Quote:
A la rubrique « nom et prénoms », son acte de naissance porte en effet, comme nous avons pu le voir : « Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d’Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine) ».
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 05-07-2017, 10:59 AM
eya eya is offline
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 10,659
The royal family is again called Saxe-Coburg: why is it soon the end of "Belgium"?

"Change of size for members of the Belgian royal family. They were once again called Saxe-Coburg, their former German title, which they were able to transmit to the descendants, who could no longer be called "de Belgique". Here are the details and explanations of our journalist and cameraman Thibaut Balthazar and Eric Poncelet.

England, Portugal, Bulgaria, Belgium ... The name Saxe-Coburg is rooted in many European royal families. This title, very widespread in the 19th century, was desecrated in the 20th century, victim of history. "The family of Coburg is a German family, and thus during the First World War Germany declares war on Coburgs who are placed on other thrones, such as Georges V in England or Albert I in Belgium, so it is inconceivable to have a German name when fighting against Germany, "explains Patrick Weber, a specialist in the royal family.

In 1921, the one who was nicknamed the King Chevalier decides therefore not to display the name Saxe-Cobourg, with German connotation. He will no longer be associated with his estate until today. Indeed, the discovery of the social book of 2017, all the descendants of King Albert I recovered the title, except the children of the princess, who take the name of their father, the Archduke of Austria-Este. "The very name Saxe-Coburg comes from one side of the Saxony family, a large German family that has spread throughout the empire and then the name of Coburg which is really a younger and collateral branch of the family of Saxony , Which has a direct reference to the territory on which it reigned, that is to say the city of Cobourg "adds Patrick Weber.

Behind this return of the noble title of Saxe-Coburg, hides the political will to limit the use of the title "prince of Belgium". Following a decree, only Princess Elisabeth will be able to pass on the title to her first child, the alternative for the other little children of King Philip and Prince Laurent will be to be called Saxe-Coburg."

La famille royale s'appelle à nouveau Saxe-Cobourg: pourquoi est-ce bientôt la fin des "de Belgique"? - RTL Info
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 05-07-2017, 11:24 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,073
It is a good idea. Children of the King and the Heir are Prince (Princess) of Belgium. Other descendants in the male lineage are Prince (Princess) von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha.

This is similar with the Netherlands (graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg), Luxembourg (prince/princesse de Nassau) and Denmark (greve/komtesse de Monpezat) for the ones not in the direct line of succession.

By doing so the title prince of Belgium (of the Netherlands, of Luxembourg, of Denmark) correspond with a close connection to the person of the Sovereign. So a good idea indeed.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 05-07-2017, 06:50 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
The article is about the yearbook Le Carnet Mondain. Last week Le Soir stated that in the current edition, all of the royal descendants of King Leopold I have gained the titles of "Duchess/Duke of Saxony, Prince/ss of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha" - exempting Princess Astrid's descendants and the late King Albert I (the king who renounced the German titles in 1921).
Their wives and husbands do not carry these titles.
The daughter of Prince Amedeo of Belgium is styled "Princess Anna Astrid" with no surname or further titles.
Le Carnet Mondain states that this information was presented to them by the royal palace.
Quote:
Behind this return of the noble title of Saxe-Coburg, hides the political will to limit the use of the title "prince of Belgium". Following a decree, only Princess Elisabeth will be able to pass on the title to her first child, the alternative for the other little children of King Philip and Prince Laurent will be to be called Saxe-Coburg.
"Little children" (petits enfants) ought to be translated as "grandchildren", and given that the decree of November 12, 2015 remains untouched, only the grandchildren of Laurent will need the surname of Saxe-Coburg. In the present condition, the Princes and Princesses who are children or grandchildren of King Philippe or Crown Princess Elisabeth will be Princes and Princesses of Belgium (Article 1).
Quote:
Artikel 1. In de openbare en private akten die hen aanbelangen, voeren de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Koning, evenals de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Kroonprins of de Kroonprinses, de titel van Prins of Prinses van België volgend op hun voornaam en voor zover ze die voeren, hun familienaam en hun dynastieke titel, en voor de andere titels die hun rechtens hun ascendentie toekomen. Hun voornaam wordt voorafgegaan door het predicaat Zijne of Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid. Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 05-07-2017, 06:52 PM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 19,246
Thanks for posting the additional information. A sensible move from the palace to make sure there will not be dozens of princes of Belgium in a few years. It seems that the grandchildren of Laurent will be princes of Saxe-Coburg.

All grandchildren of the king and queen will all be princes of Belgium under these new rules, if I understand the text correctly?
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 05-07-2017, 07:05 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
^^^ Yes, they will be Princes(ses) of Belgium under the rules of the Royal Decree of November 12, 2015, which have not been revised. Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 05-13-2017, 03:14 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The article is about the yearbook Le Carnet Mondain. Last week Le Soir stated that in the current edition, all of the royal descendants of King Leopold I have gained the titles of "Duchess/Duke of Saxony, Prince/ss of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha" - exempting Princess Astrid's descendants and the late King Albert I (the king who renounced the German titles in 1921).
Their wives and husbands do not carry these titles.
The daughter of Prince Amedeo of Belgium is styled "Princess Anna Astrid" with no surname or further titles.
Le Carnet Mondain states that this information was presented to them by the royal palace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Articles 1-3 of the decree [of 2015] deal with the title Prince(ss) of Belgium.
Article 4 states: "The Princes and Princesses, in direct descent from His Majesty Leopold [I] of Saxe-Coburg, who are not mentioned in articles 1-3, carry after their first name, and their family name if they carry it, the titles which their ancestry gives them the right to."
The spokesperson of the royal palace confirmed to Le Soir that the Saxony titles are covered by the expression "the titles which their ancestry gives them the right to", appearing in articles 1-4 of the royal decree of 2015.
The statement clarifies why the spouses did not obtain the titles, as the royal decree of 2015 applied only to descendants of Leopold I.

12 NOVEMBER 2015. - Koninklijk besluit betreffende de verlening van de titel van Prins of Prinses van België



Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
How would a prince of Belgium not be a prince
I was trying to say that the royal decree of 2015 does not expressly reserve the title Prince(ss) of Belgium for legitimate children and legitimate grandchildren, but it may imply that a child or grandchild who is not already a Prince(ss) cannot become a Prince(ss) of Belgium.

Quote:
Artikel 1. In de openbare en private akten die hen aanbelangen, voeren de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Koning, evenals de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Kroonprins of de Kroonprinses, de titel van Prins of Prinses van België [...]


The card which was signed by Princess Astrid's adviser Jan Matthysen on the occasion of Prince Amedeo and Lili Rosboch's first wedding anniversary said:
"His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo and Princess Elisabetta".

The card signed by Mr. Matthysen on the occasion of the couple's second wedding anniversary said:
"Their Royal Highnesses Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium".

koninklijkepost.punt.nl

"His" in the first card could be a mistake, or it could indicate that Elisabetta can be addressed as "HRH Princess Amedeo of Belgium" or as "Princess Elisabetta", but should not be addressed as "HRH Princess Elisabetta" or "Princess Elisabetta of Belgium".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:04 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The spokesperson of the royal palace confirmed to Le Soir that the Saxony titles are covered by the expression "the titles which their ancestry gives them the right to", appearing in articles 1-4 of the royal decree of 2015.
The statement clarifies why the spouses did not obtain the titles, as the royal decree of 2015 applied only to descendants of Leopold I.

12 NOVEMBER 2015. - Koninklijk besluit betreffende de verlening van de titel van Prins of Prinses van België


U


I was trying to say that the royal decree of 2015 does not expressly reserve the title Prince(ss) of Belgium for legitimate children and legitimate grandchildren, but it may imply that a child or grandchild who is not already a Prince(ss) cannot become a Prince(ss) of Belgium.





The card which was signed by Princess Astrid's adviser Jan Matthysen on the occasion of Prince Amedeo and Lili Rosboch's first wedding anniversary said:
"His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo and Princess Elisabetta".

The card signed by Mr. Matthysen on the occasion of the couple's second wedding anniversary said:
"Their Royal Highnesses Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium".

koninklijkepost.punt.nl

"His" in the first card could be a mistake, or it could indicate that Elisabetta can be addressed as "HRH Princess Amedeo of Belgium" or as "Princess Elisabetta", but should not be addressed as "HRH Princess Elisabetta" or "Princess Elisabetta of Belgium".
The news about the 2017 edition of the Carnet is confusing. Are Gabriel, Emmanuel and Éleonore now using Saxe-Cobourg as family name, i.e before their titles of prince or princess of Belgium ? Or do they continue not to use a family name and are only using their German titles as family titles after their titles of prince/ princess of Belgium ? What about Elisabeth ?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:28 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
The spokesperson of the royal palace confirmed to Le Soir that the Saxony titles are covered by the expression "the titles which their ancestry gives them the right to", appearing in articles 1-4 of the royal decree of 2015.
The statement clarifies why the spouses did not obtain the titles, as the royal decree of 2015 applied only to descendants of Leopold I.
Personally, I don't think they have the right to use the Saxony titles based on their ancestry because those titles became extinct when Germany became a republic. I think they have the right though to use "prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha" as a family name, as one would use nowadays in Germany.

Going back to my previous post, allow me to rephrase my question to make it clearer.

Albert , Laurent and Philippe, in all legal documents I have seen so far (royal decrees, marriage certificates, etc.) never used a family name. They are always referred to by their style (HM or HRH) followed by King/Prince, their given names (e.g. Philippe Léopold Louis Marie), their dynastic titles (e.g. King of the Belgians or Duke of Brabant), and then their title of Prince of Belgium. The 2015 royal decree says that a family name may be used between the given names and the dynastic titles, or , in the absence of the latter, between the given names and the title of Prince/Princess of Belgium, but only as long as the person bears a family name, as was the case of Mathilde, who is referred to in the royal decree who made her a Grand Cordon of the Order of Léopold as:

Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Mathilde Marie Christine Ghislaine comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique.

Are Philippe's younger children now using Saxe-Cobourg as a family name, as their mother uses comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz and as Le Soir is implying, or do they continue to go only by SAR le/la Prince/Princesse [prénom], Prince/Princesse de Belgique ?If the latter, do they now use their Saxony titles after Prince/Princesse de Belgique (in accordance with the terms of the 2015 decree), even though those titles no longer exist legally in Germany ?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:58 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Personally, I don't think they have the right to use the Saxony titles based on their ancestry because those titles became extinct when Germany became a republic. I think they have the right though to use "prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha" as a family name, as one would use nowadays in Germany.
I agree with you. I suspect that King Philippe intended to avert the sense that he awarded new titles and surnames to the members of his own family.

Quote:
Going back to my previous post, allow me to rephrase my question to make it clearer.

Albert , Laurent and Philippe, in all legal documents I have seen so far (royal decrees, marriage certificates, etc.) never used a family name. They are always referred to by their style (HM or HRH) followed by King/Prince, their given names (e.g. Philippe Léopold Louis Marie), their dynastic titles (e.g. King of the Belgians or Duke of Brabant), and then their title of Prince of Belgium. The 2015 royal decree says that a family name may be used between the given names and the dynastic titles, or , in the absence of the latter, between the given names and the title of Prince/Princess of Belgium, but only as long as the person bears a family name, as was the case of Mathilde, who is referred to in the royal decree who made her a Grand Cordon of the Order of Léopold as:

Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Mathilde Marie Christine Ghislaine comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique.

Are Philippe's younger children now using Saxe-Cobourg as a family name, as their mother uses comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz and as Le Soir is implying, or do they continue to go only by SAR le/la Prince/Princesse [prénom], Prince/Princesse de Belgique ?If the latter, do they now use their Saxony titles after Prince/Princesse de Belgique (in accordance with the terms of the 2015 decree), even though those titles no longer exist legally in Germany ?
I did not acquire the 2017 Carnet Mondain, but Le Soir's recapitulation did not imply a disparity between Elisabeth and her siblings on this subject. It simply says that in the 2017 edition, all of the members of the royal family, exempting Princess Astrid's descendants and the late King Albert I, have gained the titles of "Duchess/Duke of Saxony, Prince/ss of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha".

Per Belgian nobiliary law, there is a disconnect between surnames ("d'Udekem d'Acoz" or "of Austria-Este") and titles of nobility ("Countess" or "Archduke"). (Please see this post.)

However, formalities notwithstanding, the princes(ses) consort whose family names were in practice connected to a title have adjoined their family names to their titles in Royal Decrees:

"La Princesse Mathilde, Marie, Christine, Ghislaine, Comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique"
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad

"Le Prince Lorenz, Otto, Carl, Amedeus, Prince de Belgique, Archiduc d'Autriche-Este"
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad

When the family name was unconnected to a title, princesses consort adjoined their family names to their first names.

"La Princesse Claire Coombs, Princesse de Belgique"
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad

Based on this precedent, I suppose the long title of Princess Elisabeth and her siblings would be "Her Royal Highness Princess Elisabeth, Duchess of Brabant, Princess of Belgium, Duchess of Saxony, Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha", not "Her Royal Highness Princess Elisabeth of Saxe-Coburg, Duchess of Brabant (etc)", as the surname "of Saxe(-Coburg)(-Gotha)" is connected (I assume) to the titles Duchess and Princess.

Nevertheless, as you pointed out, the 2015 royal decree says that even children and grandchildren of King Albert II (Art. 2) and daughters(-in-law) of Princess Lilian (Art. 3.) may or may not use a family name disconnected from their titles and adjoined to their first name. I cannot comprehend the reasons for this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 02-04-2018, 04:57 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 22
Titles for Laurent's Eventual Grandchildren?

The King issued a decree a few years ago limiting the titles of Prince and Princess to children and grandchildren of a monarch. Princess Astrid's male-line descendants will be Archdukes/duchesses of Austria, but it would seem that Laurent's eventual grandchildren and their descendants will have no titles at all. He doesn't have any lesser title that some or all might inherit.

This is not the greatest issue facing humanity, I concede. But is there any plan to address this issue?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:35 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 19,570
I doubt it seeing as Albert II abolished other titles associated with the Crown such as Count of Flanders/of Hainaut and Prince of Liège in 2001 .

Had he granted Laurent a Countdom perhaps his future grandchildren might have been styled 'Count X' in the male line?
__________________
23rd of April 1014:Death of Brian Boru,High King of Ireland
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:36 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizier View Post
The King issued a decree a few years ago limiting the titles of Prince and Princess to children and grandchildren of a monarch. Princess Astrid's male-line descendants will be Archdukes/duchesses of Austria, but it would seem that Laurent's eventual grandchildren and their descendants will have no titles at all. He doesn't have any lesser title that some or all might inherit.

This is not the greatest issue facing humanity, I concede. But is there any plan to address this issue?
There are dormant titles: Prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, Herzog von Sachsen. Look at Luxembourg: Grand-Duke Jean decided no longer to use the title Prince de Bourbon de Parme. The title became dormant but it is not removed. Proof: in the juridical paperwork around the divorce of Louis and Tessy his full titles were mentioned: Prince de Luxembourg, Prince de Nassau, Prince de Bourbon de Parme.

Belgium has plenty of Princes: De Ligne, De Merode, Arenberg, Croy, Lobkowicz, etc. I fail to see why a Belgian branch De Saxe-Cobourg et Gotha can not be established. In Belgium the King has far more possibilities on noble titles than for example his Swedish or Norwegian colleagues.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:43 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
The words of the decree of November 12, 2015 make it clear that it did not limit the titles of Prince and Princess. The title of Prince and Princess of Belgium was the only title limited by the decree.

See the decree at:
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad


Princess Astrid's granddaughter has the official style of Princess Anna Astrid, not Archduchess, and I presume that will be the case for the grandchildren of Prince Laurent.

I have written summaries of the Palace's statements concerning titles in these posts:

Titles of the Belgian Royal Family
Titles of the Belgian Royal Family
Titles of the Belgian Royal Family
Titles of the Belgian Royal Family

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There are dormant titles: Prinz von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, Herzog von Sachsen.
The usage of the titles has been restored by the decree in 2015 for the descendants of King Leopold I in male line, ostensibly with retroactive workings. Titles of the Belgian Royal Family
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 02-04-2018, 06:08 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,073
It is Aartshertogin Anna-Astrid van Oostenrijk-Este, l'Archiduchesse Anna-Astrid d'Autriche-Este, Erzherzogin Anna-Astrid von Österreich-Este.

Yes, she can be a Princess, as she has a whole fleet of Austrian-Hungarian and Italian titles as well, but, look for it: you will see Anna-Astrid referred with her father's primary (non-Belgian) title.

A title is always granted in combination with a surname. It is not possible to be a prince or princess without surname. When Anna-Astrid is a "Princess of Austria-Este" then this is a new title and surname which needs to be decreed by Royal Decree and published in the State Gazette. For so far I can see this has not happened, so by general civic law Anna-Astrid has her father's titles and surname minus the title "Prince of Belgium" as specifically decreed by the King.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 02-04-2018, 06:46 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is Aartshertogin Anna-Astrid van Oostenrijk-Este, l'Archiduchesse Anna-Astrid d'Autriche-Este, Erzherzogin Anna-Astrid von Österreich-Este.
It is actually "Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" in Anna Astrid's official (Belgian) birth certificate.

"A la rubrique « nom et prénoms », son acte de naissance porte en effet, comme nous avons pu le voir : « Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d’Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine) »."
http://plus.lesoir.be/53935/article/...us-de-belgique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Yes, she can be a Princess, as she has a whole fleet of Austrian-Hungarian and Italian titles as well, but, look for it: you will see Anna-Astrid referred with her father's primary (non-Belgian) title.
Anna Astrid is never referred to with the Archduchess title. She is referred to as "Princess Anna Astrid" in the communiqué released by the Palace to Place Royale, in the comments from the spokesperson of the King, in the birthday card signed by Princess Astrid's Household, in the information given by the Palace to the yearbook Le Carnet Mondain.

(Edited) Here is the card, and you will find the other links in these posts.
Princess Astrid, Prince Lorenz and Family - general questions
Titles of the Belgian Royal Family
Titles of the Belgian Royal Family


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
A title is always granted in combination with a surname. It is not possible to be a prince or princess without surname. When Anna-Astrid is a "Princess of Austria-Este" then this is a new title and surname which needs to be decreed by Royal Decree and published in the State Gazette. For so far I can see this has not happened, so by general civic law Anna-Astrid has her father's titles and surname minus the title "Prince of Belgium" as specifically decreed by the King.
Anna Astrid has not been granted any new title or surname personally. The surname appearing on her birth certificate is the very same as the surname appearing on her father's: "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)."

Her birth certificate illustrates that, by right of birth, she is a Princess holding the secondary title Archduchess and surname "of Austria-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)".

As you say: She has her father's titles and surname minus the title "Prince of Belgium".

Prince Amedeo, Prince of Belgium, Archduke of Austria-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)
Princess Anna Astrid, Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 02-04-2018, 07:13 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 1,235
Hmm, still it is weird that she is a princess without a designation. The only reasonable explanation seems to be that she is a 'princess of Hungary' (as part of her father's many titles).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 02-04-2018, 08:36 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Hmm, still it is weird that she is a princess without a designation.
It is a reversion to pre-1891 rules.

Before the Royal Decree in 1891, all of the royal Belgian princes and princesses were without a designation.

The report accompanying the Royal Decree stated that the princes and princesses were not called "of Belgium" in Belgium, unlike in foreign countries, where they were referred to by the name "of Belgium".

When Prince Baudouin died in January 1891, there was discomfort with his death certificate because there was no "of Belgium" or characteristically Belgian title on it (while his Saxony titles were recognized on Belgian documents).

The Royal Decree of March 14, 1891 resolved the problem by granting the title of Prince/Princess of Belgium to all of the Princes and Princesses who were in direct male line descent from King Léopold I.

Royal Titles in Belgium - Titres Royaux en Belgique


Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
The only reasonable explanation seems to be that she is a 'princess of Hungary' (as part of her father's many titles).
That could be, albeit the Royal Decree of November 12, 2015 means that at least a fraction of the descendants without the title Prince/Princess of Belgium remain entitled to be Prince and Princess as direct descendants of King Leopold I.

"Art. 4. De Prinsen en Prinsessen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van Zijne Majesteit Leopold, Joris, Christiaan, Frederik van Saksen-Coburg en die niet worden beoogd door de artikelen 1 tot 3, voeren na hun voornaam en voor zover ze die voeren, hun familienaam, de titels die hun krachtens hun ascendentie toekomen."

Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 02-05-2018, 10:58 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 8,073
"[...] carry, after (!) their first name, and for so far they use one, their family name, the titles which are theirs by descendance"

I read this as:
Anna-Astrid (her first name)
de Habsbourg-Este (her eventual surname)
archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este (her title by ascendance)

Where does the "princess"-part come from, to be used before her surname. The legal article in the previous post says nothing about it?

The first line speaks about the princes and princesses, descendants in direct lineage to King Leopold I. But Anna-Astrid is a descendant in direct lineage from the House of Austria-Este, she is no direct descendant of Leopold I.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Titles, Surname and Protocols for the Royal Family Australian The Royal Family of Greece 419 01-11-2018 05:58 AM
Titles of the Royal Family curious Royal Family of Spain 185 01-07-2018 02:54 PM
Royal Dukes, Royal Duchies and Royal Ducal Titles btsnyder British Royals 552 09-25-2016 02:01 PM
Belgian Abdication & Installation: Changes in Titles, Dotation and the Court leidi Royal Family of Belgium 30 07-23-2013 06:07 PM
Historical/Substantive titles within the Belgian Royal Family LadyLeana Belgian Royal History 14 02-21-2009 06:25 AM




Popular Tags
baltic republics camilla china chris o'neill crown princess victoria current events denmark duchess of brabant england family general news grandchild hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hereditary princess sophie hohenzollern infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín james bond king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia monaco monarchy news nobel opening of parliament porphyria prince alexander prince charles prince daniel prince emmanuel prince gabriel prince harry prince nicholas prince oscar princess alexandra princess beatrice princess claire princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia gowns queen mathilde queen mathilde daytime fashion queen maxima queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima hats queen sofia royal royal ancestry royal geneology spanish royal family events state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family tom bower victoria



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:34 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018
Jelsoft Enterprises