Queen Fabiola and the late King Baudouin: News and Pictures Part 2


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I fail to see why members of this forum should apologize to Fabiola, episcogal. And sin is a strong word btw. The discussion here was fair all the time imo and Maria Olivia's remarks just display the public opinion in Belgium. Q Fabiola got a lot more money than the Belgian Prime Minister for ex and she got one third more money than Philippe when he was still CP, and this money also covered the expenses of his wife and his children. It's legitmate to ask why Fabiola needs so much money. Especially since Belgium has a tight budget and hurtful cuts were made.



K Albert and Q Fabiola both made huge mistakes by asking/accepting huge dotations for themselves and for Laurent and Astrid. All the time it has been unclear how they spend their money. There was no audit and hence it is impossible to say if Fabiola used public money for her foundations. They put themselves and the monarchy in a tenuous position. I hope K Philippe learns from their mistakes and introduces annual audits.
 
imo, this was a case of very bad timing...
had this happened 10 years ago, little would have been said,
but when the entire country is in economic crisis, every 'man in the street' has to tighten the purse strings, then the news about the high dotations several of the belgian royals had, with limited insight in why they needed it (which *does* happen with other royal families), and then the news that Q.Fabiola sends her private money out-of-the-country and keeps insisting on high state-dotation.....
All other people first have to use their own money, before they can apply for state money, and many of them have worked long and hard for their country and community too...

so in that light, it was not illegal, it was not forbidden, but it *was* a very clumsy move with regards to the image of the royal family, and yes, that *should* matter... in Europe there is not one royal family that is royal because of divine intervention, all are where they are because their people and their government like it that way..

If i assume that episcogal's post was indeed from Her Majesty's lips, than i'm afraid it only confirms that view
 
Straight from the mouth of your queen. Do you claim her a liar?
I don't believe Queen Fabiola is a liar; but I also can't and don't believe that she has ever made comments such the Belgians being "bureaucratic spoiled brats", that "the Belgian government doesn't know fully their own laws, that "Belgians can not tell the difference between private money and public money" and so on.

In my opinion, the setting of the foundation really looked like a case of tax avoidance. It may not be illegal, in the sense that setting a foundation is something legal, but still Belgium has clear anti-avoidance laws. You may like that or not, but still this is the law.
I also agree with Lee-z, it was a case of very very bad timing, under the present economic circumstances.
 
Calling the Belgian government communist is rather odd and completely misinterpreting European/Belgian politics. It is a terminology used by sensationalist right wing tv stations in the US. Although the late king Leopold III had his problems with socialists mainly due to his own bias, kings Baudouin, Albert II and Philippe seem to have good relationships with them. But note that Belgium has (and always had) a coalition government, the present one consists of Christian Democtrats, Socialists and the Liberal party. And unlike in the terminology used by certain US tv stations, liberal parties in Europe are usually considered right-wing, esp. on financial issues.

It was esp. the Flemish secession political parties and the CD&V (Chr. Democrats) that were critisizing Queen Fabiola btw.
 
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I agree with you MAfan, Fabiola was a popular Queen but in her old age she did mistakes such as her Foundations and using a staff of 25 people in her Palace.


But why was her Foundation a "mistake"? From what I have read and understood, she did nothing illegal.

She put her life and all her energies into Belgium and the Belgians when she became Queen. She worked tirelessly to improve the lives of ordinary Belgians, sexually exploited women and girls, as well as the poor. She nearly lost her life trying to provide an heir.

She is now alone, frail and in the twilight of her life. To treat her this way because the monarchy is not as popular as it once was seems rather unkind.

She has gotten a lavish lifestyle from Belgium but has given back just as much, imo.
 
I said what I said...and I didn't say what I didn't say. Some of the remarks indicate there is a lack of understanding of some of my statements.

I did not say the Belgian government is communist. I clearly said it's socialist.

I did not say Fabiola called Belgians bureaucratic brats. I stated their ACTIONS make them appear as such.

It is not so unbelievable that lawmakers could incorrectly or not fully understand legislation and its effects. Most lawmakers are not estate planners or tax attorneys or accountants.

The press and the government jumped on Fabiola immediately. Here is an excerpt from the Telegraph.uk:

Elio Di Rupo, Belgium's Socialist Prime Minister, has been forced to condemn the Queen's arrangements, which are completely legal, just days after defending the political role of the monarchy as a bulwark against Flemish separatists.
The foundation is a legal construction that would allow the queen to bequeath her fortune to Spanish and to charity causes without having to pay the full rate of inheritance tax.

In a rare statement, Queen Fabiola has insisted that she uses her publicly funded stipend on housekeeping, and that the new fund, which would only include her private money.

"I have never had the intention of depositing funds I received from the public purse with my foundation," she said. "All the monies that I receive from the civil list go on expenditure on my household. The lion's share goes on salaries."
That pretty neatly clears things up. Again I ask, who does not believe her? The paradigm is one of 'if you don't pay 70% taxes, then you're a tax cheat.' They have laws which her attorneys worked within which would allow her private monies to go to her favorite charities and family concerns.

I'm saying right here and now that it is unbelievably selfish for any government or society to demand something that is not rightfully theirs in accordance with their own laws. Indeed, it should be illegal to have one set of expectations or requirements for royalty and another for regular citizens. Let her pay taxes...but don't require that she pay MORE taxes than is legally due.

She was presumed guilty from the beginning. Finally, I ask myself would she be treated thus if Baudouin were alive?

She has given every ounce of herself to Belgium and at the twilight of her life the Belgians have given her, in return, the back of their hand.

SHAME.
 
Even it was correct from a tax/legal point of view, I guess the issue was, that she wanted to bring parts of her foundation out of the country to donate her Spanish relatives & organizations.

So it was legally right, from a moral standpoint insensitive.

IF she would have given everything to the "crown" (btw, NOT the state) or to charity organisations WITHIN Belgium, the Press scream would not have been there.

Just my opinion.
BYe Bine
 
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She has given every ounce of herself to Belgium and at the twilight of her life the Belgians have given her, in return, the back of their hand.
SHAME.
This is part of the problem imo. There was this image of Fabiola and Baudouin as philanthropic and frugal couple who don't ask anything for themselves but tirelessly aim to help others, almost like saints. And then Fabiola's foundation was sort of a reality check. It turns out that Fabiola has a fortune, that she intends to optimize this fortune by avoiding inheritance taxes and even worse that the foundation comes with rather strict catholic conditions and is intended for her Spanish nephews. Also there was no transparency how she spends her money, the court wasn't informed, King Albert had no qualms to throw her under the bus, the PR department of the RF back then was as incompetent as possible and the political and economic climate was very grim – this is a situation that inevitably gets you into big trouble.


So has Fabiola given EVERY ounce to Belgium? I beg to differ. She sure has given a lot to Belgium, she is a most interesting queen who along with her husband did a lot to help others, who used her influence to make a change and who is cherished for her compassion. She also dealt with childlessness and widowhood in a most touching manner. BUT she also has a very comfortable life which is funded by taxpayers. Fabiola had a staff of 25 persons to look after her and her needs, she resides in a nice castle, has worn expensive clothes and was fond of her jewellery and she is a rich woman who got a lavish pension. She also wasn't a 24/7 servant of Belgium, she has a private life, had a fulfilling marriage, went on vacation in a private jet etc. pp. So I think it is wrong to portray her as woman who has given everything to Belgium, the Belgians also have given her a lot. And your description of the Belgians is unfair, episcogal. Idolization does Fabiola no favour, it is impossible to live up to this image, even for a remarkable person like Fabiola.
 
Throughout history, and everywhere in the world, there have been differences between the law (what is allowed) and what is found correct, just ( what is acceptable) . As a result in the course of time, anywhere in the world, the laws of that time are adapted to the changing opinions. And that's good, in my opinion, that's how the world makes progress

With the money Queen Fabiola gets from the state (besides free housing and meant to spend to have a household, not income I believe, Belgium posters please correct me if I am wrong) one can have I nice live in Belgium.
Queen Fabiola is a woman who has chosen to be a leading figure, a role model, to the Belgian society. Playing that role you sometimes have to realize that sometimes things that are allowed following the law in your society are not so clever to do that time. And that society has the full right to discuss that and criticize. That is their freedom and that's not always fun (I know from my own experience), and the way this freedom is exercised is not always subtle, but so be it . Queen Fabiola has done good things for Belgium, but is (in my opinion ) not a Saint. I think she, and she is not unique, here and there lost a bit the feeling of what lives, goes on in society. And if you are so intertwined with that society sometimes something bounces and you make a slip-up. Too bad, but alas.

History will show what the signification, the importance, of Queen Fabiola, and all others in the Belgian Royal Family, ultimately will be to Belgium and the how Belgian society will evaluate .

I'll have to grow very, very old to know, also pity, but unfortunately.:)
 
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[This is part of the problem imo. There was this image of Fabiola and Baudouin as philanthropic and frugal couple who don't ask anything for themselves but tirelessly aim to help others, almost like saints// Mara

I don't know that I consider them saints. But their lifestyle was much more than image...it was a fact. They did a lot for Belgium both individually and as a couple. They did not squander money, and lived out of only five or six rooms in the vast Laeken Palace. Much of their time was spent in a small cottage on the grounds where they went without staff and did their own cooking and cleaning. Their nephew Prince Dimitri visited them there and was incredulous at their "petit bourgeois" lifestyle. They entertained only very infrequently. Fabiola recycled her clothes so often that well into the 1980's she was still wearing outfits from the 70's and even the 60's!:eek:

Baudouin in his final years was known to personally try to intervene in the lives of hookers on the streets of Antwerp, to try to help them change their lives. Former First Lady Barbara Bush wrote in her autobiography about her visit to Belgium and how impressed she was by Queen Fabiola's hands on approach to helping disabled citizens live independent, dignified lives.

Surely in the final analysis that is worth something?

Never one whiff of scandal ever touched this particular Royal couple. All things considered, especially compared with certain other monarchies I think the Belgians were very, very fortunate to have Baudouin and Fabiola as king and queen.
 
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Frankly, in my view up until now, the ones to blame for this issue getting out of hand where Q.Fabiola's advisors and her PR-people; imo they should have known how to handle this gracefully and without causing the confusion it has caused.

Episcogal, you are doing the queen no favor in ranting against the belgian people and us on this forum; it only makes me wonder if she has overruled her advisors advices...
 
There is a fundamental gap in philosophy here. Fabiola is "guilty" of a fraud, which isn't against any laws.

The only thing I have to say to that is a Louis Armstrong quote: "There's some folks, that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."
 
An Ard Ri , you did my day. Only 3 years after her wedding Queen Fabiola was already a perfect Queen. Grateful thanks.
Sorry we did not hear the God Save the Queen in the first video !
 
As an American, the only time I have ever wished we had a king and queen is when I look at old newsreel and photographs of Baudouin and Fabiola. What a classy, beautiful, dedicated Royal couple. The Belgians were very lucky to have them.

Thanks, An Ard Ri!:)
 
You'd never guess by my avatar that Baudouin & Fabiola are one of my all time favourite royal couples!
 
You'd never guess by my avatar that Baudouin & Fabiola are one of my all time favourite royal couples!

They are one of my top two or three. They restore my faith in the idea of soulmates and true love. You hear those phrases thrown around so often they have almost lost their impact.

But Baudouin and Fabiola were what we call the Real Thing:whistling::p.
Thanks for all the lovely, nostalgic newsreels.
 
Me too, you can guess with my avatar that Baudoin and Fabiola are one of my favorite royal couple.

I began to read all on the couple since their wedding I was a young girl who was 12 and I am very pleased when I can read some photos of the couple
 
Thank you for the news reel clips. The 1961 mud slide reel is new to me. Fabiola's birthday is June 11th, so perhaps we will see a new picture. I hope so.
 
Does anyone know how it goes with Queen Fabiola? I'm not so into the Belgian Royal Family, so I hope someone can answer this.
 
She seems to have gone into complete seclusion, not even an appearance on her birthday like she used to. It's sad. I miss seeing that wonderful lady.:ermm:
 
Part 2 has been closed but please see Part 3 below to continue discussions on the late King and Queen



 
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