The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal Family of Belgium

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #201  
Old 12-21-2013, 01:50 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 93
Well, I had heard rumors about this but it's official...

Fabiola & Elizabeth Photo 1

Fabiola & Elizabeth Photo 2




Fabiola with musicians Photo 1

Fabiola with musicians Photo 2
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:58 AM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,219
The relationship between Queen Fabiola and Queen Mathilde is much better than with Queen Paola .
We did not see Queen Fabiola at the King's feast and at the Christmas Concert.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 12-22-2013, 05:55 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 93
Fab inspires the unusual and I've come across yet another...

Drink Your IDOL

FABIOLA BEER
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 01-06-2014, 05:41 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 93
Love THIS picture I found it recently. They were very real.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 01-27-2014, 10:38 AM
marine2109's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 1,803
Quote:
Fabiola of Belgium 'drastically' reduce their personal
Fabiola de Bélgica reduce 'drásticamente' su personal | Realeza | Noticias hola.com

https://translate.google.com.tr/tran...les%2F&act=url
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 01-27-2014, 11:52 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,322
I had not previously realized that her dotation has been lowered so much - although it still is quite a huge amount of money.
Btw, one may say that nowadays she doesn't need anymore to have 20 employees, especially 5 secretaries, given that the Queen lives nearly in seclusion.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 01-27-2014, 05:00 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,219
I agree with you MAfan, Fabiola was a popular Queen but in her old age she did mistakes such as her Foundations and using a staff of 25 people in her Palace.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 01-28-2014, 12:58 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 93
1) The only thing which this succeeded doing is putting Belgians out of work. She didn't use that money on her foundation or herself, but for staff. Many of her staff have been with her 30+ years.

2) It is a SIN how Fabiola is being treated at the end of her life. It just makes Belgians look like bureaucratic spoiled brats.

3) The foundation is and was completely LEGAL. That means there was no secrecy involved - the Belgian government doesn't know fully their own laws?

4) It is the job of tax attorneys and retirement / foundation accountants to shelter individuals from excessive tax laws. That's what they do. That's their job. They look at the laws and advise clients on how best to save money. That is not shameful or illegal in any way.

5) If Fabiola were a private citizen in Belgium of a considerable wealth, there would not be one word said about her foundation and estate. Instead, she is being penalized for being a member of a royal family.

6) Evidently, Belgians can not tell the difference between private money and public money. Simply audit the household accounts to make certain she's using all her civil list money on the household, which I have NO doubt she is, as she stated.

7) ONLY in socialism (and communism) is it deemed morally reprehensible for people to not want to give all their money to the state. 70% because she does no have direct descendents? And if she DID have direct heirs, she would not incur 70% - that's completely inequitable.

It is NOT a sin to not want all your hard earned money to go to the government.

It is NOT morally good character to give all your money to a socialist government. That's just insane.

Break it down:
* Not illegal
* Not immoral
* Not unethical

Too bad she wouldn't come live here in the United States where we're free.

Belgium owes Queen Fabiola a HUGE apology, starting with people on this very forum.
__________________
Laura
http://baudouin-fabiola.com/
Pinterest -YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 01-28-2014, 08:11 AM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,219
You did my day! the history about our royal Queen and our Politics seen from Pittsburgh (USA) very funny ! What are your sources ?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 01-28-2014, 08:41 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 93
Straight from the mouth of your queen. Do you claim her a liar?
__________________
Laura
http://baudouin-fabiola.com/
Pinterest -YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 01-28-2014, 11:39 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: xxx, Antarctica
Posts: 118
I fail to see why members of this forum should apologize to Fabiola, episcogal. And sin is a strong word btw. The discussion here was fair all the time imo and Maria Olivia's remarks just display the public opinion in Belgium. Q Fabiola got a lot more money than the Belgian Prime Minister for ex and she got one third more money than Philippe when he was still CP, and this money also covered the expenses of his wife and his children. It's legitmate to ask why Fabiola needs so much money. Especially since Belgium has a tight budget and hurtful cuts were made.



K Albert and Q Fabiola both made huge mistakes by asking/accepting huge dotations for themselves and for Laurent and Astrid. All the time it has been unclear how they spend their money. There was no audit and hence it is impossible to say if Fabiola used public money for her foundations. They put themselves and the monarchy in a tenuous position. I hope K Philippe learns from their mistakes and introduces annual audits.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 01-28-2014, 01:59 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 938
imo, this was a case of very bad timing...
had this happened 10 years ago, little would have been said,
but when the entire country is in economic crisis, every 'man in the street' has to tighten the purse strings, then the news about the high dotations several of the belgian royals had, with limited insight in why they needed it (which *does* happen with other royal families), and then the news that Q.Fabiola sends her private money out-of-the-country and keeps insisting on high state-dotation.....
All other people first have to use their own money, before they can apply for state money, and many of them have worked long and hard for their country and community too...

so in that light, it was not illegal, it was not forbidden, but it *was* a very clumsy move with regards to the image of the royal family, and yes, that *should* matter... in Europe there is not one royal family that is royal because of divine intervention, all are where they are because their people and their government like it that way..

If i assume that episcogal's post was indeed from Her Majesty's lips, than i'm afraid it only confirms that view
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 01-28-2014, 07:33 PM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by episcogal View Post
Straight from the mouth of your queen. Do you claim her a liar?
I don't believe Queen Fabiola is a liar; but I also can't and don't believe that she has ever made comments such the Belgians being "bureaucratic spoiled brats", that "the Belgian government doesn't know fully their own laws, that "Belgians can not tell the difference between private money and public money" and so on.

In my opinion, the setting of the foundation really looked like a case of tax avoidance. It may not be illegal, in the sense that setting a foundation is something legal, but still Belgium has clear anti-avoidance laws. You may like that or not, but still this is the law.
I also agree with Lee-z, it was a case of very very bad timing, under the present economic circumstances.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 01-28-2014, 08:19 PM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 14,251
Calling the Belgian government communist is rather odd and completely misinterpreting European/Belgian politics. It is a terminology used by sensationalist right wing tv stations in the US. Although the late king Leopold III had his problems with socialists mainly due to his own bias, kings Baudouin, Albert II and Philippe seem to have good relationships with them. But note that Belgium has (and always had) a coalition government, the present one consists of Christian Democtrats, Socialists and the Liberal party. And unlike in the terminology used by certain US tv stations, liberal parties in Europe are usually considered right-wing, esp. on financial issues.

It was esp. the Flemish secession political parties and the CD&V (Chr. Democrats) that were critisizing Queen Fabiola btw.
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 01-28-2014, 09:35 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 4,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
I agree with you MAfan, Fabiola was a popular Queen but in her old age she did mistakes such as her Foundations and using a staff of 25 people in her Palace.

But why was her Foundation a "mistake"? From what I have read and understood, she did nothing illegal.

She put her life and all her energies into Belgium and the Belgians when she became Queen. She worked tirelessly to improve the lives of ordinary Belgians, sexually exploited women and girls, as well as the poor. She nearly lost her life trying to provide an heir.

She is now alone, frail and in the twilight of her life. To treat her this way because the monarchy is not as popular as it once was seems rather unkind.

She has gotten a lavish lifestyle from Belgium but has given back just as much, imo.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 01-29-2014, 04:35 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 93
I said what I said...and I didn't say what I didn't say. Some of the remarks indicate there is a lack of understanding of some of my statements.

I did not say the Belgian government is communist. I clearly said it's socialist.

I did not say Fabiola called Belgians bureaucratic brats. I stated their ACTIONS make them appear as such.

It is not so unbelievable that lawmakers could incorrectly or not fully understand legislation and its effects. Most lawmakers are not estate planners or tax attorneys or accountants.

The press and the government jumped on Fabiola immediately. Here is an excerpt from the Telegraph.uk:

Quote:
Elio Di Rupo, Belgium's Socialist Prime Minister, has been forced to condemn the Queen's arrangements, which are completely legal, just days after defending the political role of the monarchy as a bulwark against Flemish separatists.
Quote:
The foundation is a legal construction that would allow the queen to bequeath her fortune to Spanish and to charity causes without having to pay the full rate of inheritance tax.

In a rare statement, Queen Fabiola has insisted that she uses her publicly funded stipend on housekeeping, and that the new fund, which would only include her private money.

"I have never had the intention of depositing funds I received from the public purse with my foundation," she said. "All the monies that I receive from the civil list go on expenditure on my household. The lion's share goes on salaries."
That pretty neatly clears things up. Again I ask, who does not believe her? The paradigm is one of 'if you don't pay 70% taxes, then you're a tax cheat.' They have laws which her attorneys worked within which would allow her private monies to go to her favorite charities and family concerns.

I'm saying right here and now that it is unbelievably selfish for any government or society to demand something that is not rightfully theirs in accordance with their own laws. Indeed, it should be illegal to have one set of expectations or requirements for royalty and another for regular citizens. Let her pay taxes...but don't require that she pay MORE taxes than is legally due.

She was presumed guilty from the beginning. Finally, I ask myself would she be treated thus if Baudouin were alive?

She has given every ounce of herself to Belgium and at the twilight of her life the Belgians have given her, in return, the back of their hand.

SHAME.
__________________
Laura
http://baudouin-fabiola.com/
Pinterest -YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 01-29-2014, 06:08 AM
Bine221's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 949
Even it was correct from a tax/legal point of view, I guess the issue was, that she wanted to bring parts of her foundation out of the country to donate her Spanish relatives & organizations.

So it was legally right, from a moral standpoint insensitive.

IF she would have given everything to the "crown" (btw, NOT the state) or to charity organisations WITHIN Belgium, the Press scream would not have been there.

Just my opinion.
BYe Bine
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 01-29-2014, 06:30 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: xxx, Antarctica
Posts: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by episcogal View Post
She has given every ounce of herself to Belgium and at the twilight of her life the Belgians have given her, in return, the back of their hand.
SHAME.
This is part of the problem imo. There was this image of Fabiola and Baudouin as philanthropic and frugal couple who don't ask anything for themselves but tirelessly aim to help others, almost like saints. And then Fabiola's foundation was sort of a reality check. It turns out that Fabiola has a fortune, that she intends to optimize this fortune by avoiding inheritance taxes and even worse that the foundation comes with rather strict catholic conditions and is intended for her Spanish nephews. Also there was no transparency how she spends her money, the court wasn't informed, King Albert had no qualms to throw her under the bus, the PR department of the RF back then was as incompetent as possible and the political and economic climate was very grim – this is a situation that inevitably gets you into big trouble.


So has Fabiola given EVERY ounce to Belgium? I beg to differ. She sure has given a lot to Belgium, she is a most interesting queen who along with her husband did a lot to help others, who used her influence to make a change and who is cherished for her compassion. She also dealt with childlessness and widowhood in a most touching manner. BUT she also has a very comfortable life which is funded by taxpayers. Fabiola had a staff of 25 persons to look after her and her needs, she resides in a nice castle, has worn expensive clothes and was fond of her jewellery and she is a rich woman who got a lavish pension. She also wasn't a 24/7 servant of Belgium, she has a private life, had a fulfilling marriage, went on vacation in a private jet etc. pp. So I think it is wrong to portray her as woman who has given everything to Belgium, the Belgians also have given her a lot. And your description of the Belgians is unfair, episcogal. Idolization does Fabiola no favour, it is impossible to live up to this image, even for a remarkable person like Fabiola.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 01-29-2014, 08:39 AM
paola's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Near the coast, Netherlands
Posts: 147
Throughout history, and everywhere in the world, there have been differences between the law (what is allowed) and what is found correct, just ( what is acceptable) . As a result in the course of time, anywhere in the world, the laws of that time are adapted to the changing opinions. And that's good, in my opinion, that's how the world makes progress

With the money Queen Fabiola gets from the state (besides free housing and meant to spend to have a household, not income I believe, Belgium posters please correct me if I am wrong) one can have I nice live in Belgium.
Queen Fabiola is a woman who has chosen to be a leading figure, a role model, to the Belgian society. Playing that role you sometimes have to realize that sometimes things that are allowed following the law in your society are not so clever to do that time. And that society has the full right to discuss that and criticize. That is their freedom and that's not always fun (I know from my own experience), and the way this freedom is exercised is not always subtle, but so be it . Queen Fabiola has done good things for Belgium, but is (in my opinion ) not a Saint. I think she, and she is not unique, here and there lost a bit the feeling of what lives, goes on in society. And if you are so intertwined with that society sometimes something bounces and you make a slip-up. Too bad, but alas.

History will show what the signification, the importance, of Queen Fabiola, and all others in the Belgian Royal Family, ultimately will be to Belgium and the how Belgian society will evaluate .

I'll have to grow very, very old to know, also pity, but unfortunately.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:03 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 4,519
[This is part of the problem imo. There was this image of Fabiola and Baudouin as philanthropic and frugal couple who don't ask anything for themselves but tirelessly aim to help others, almost like saints// Mara

I don't know that I consider them saints. But their lifestyle was much more than image...it was a fact. They did a lot for Belgium both individually and as a couple. They did not squander money, and lived out of only five or six rooms in the vast Laeken Palace. Much of their time was spent in a small cottage on the grounds where they went without staff and did their own cooking and cleaning. Their nephew Prince Dimitri visited them there and was incredulous at their "petit bourgeois" lifestyle. They entertained only very infrequently. Fabiola recycled her clothes so often that well into the 1980's she was still wearing outfits from the 70's and even the 60's!

Baudouin in his final years was known to personally try to intervene in the lives of hookers on the streets of Antwerp, to try to help them change their lives. Former First Lady Barbara Bush wrote in her autobiography about her visit to Belgium and how impressed she was by Queen Fabiola's hands on approach to helping disabled citizens live independent, dignified lives.

Surely in the final analysis that is worth something?

Never one whiff of scandal ever touched this particular Royal couple. All things considered, especially compared with certain other monarchies I think the Belgians were very, very fortunate to have Baudouin and Fabiola as king and queen.
__________________

__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
baudouin, fabiola de mora y aragon, king baudouin, queen fabiola


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
King Abdullah & Queen Rania, Current News & Pictures, Part 14 Alexandria Current Events Archive 252 05-11-2006 08:14 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events duchess of cambridge fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman palace pom pregnancy president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding william winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:03 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]