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  #21  
Old 05-18-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Belgians have a most peculiar (and in my eyes unlucky) system. The Royal Decree of 2 December 1991 says the following: "[....] the title Prince or Princess of Belgium will be granted to the Princes and Princesses whom will be born by our descendants in direct line [....]"

This means that the title is hereditary to all descendants of King Albert II, in both the male and female lineage. This leads to a staggering 22 Princes/Princesses of Belgium today and this will only increase, causing an inflation of that title. To answer your question: when this Royal Decree is not adapted, children of Archuchess Maria Laura of Austria-Este , Princess of Belgium can become Prince(ss) of Belgium indeed but NOT Archduke (Archduchess) of Austria-Este, since that is only hereditary via the male lineage.

Since Prince Amedeo is getting married this summer, we will see if King Philippe will release a new decree to change things (this should be the case). As you said in ... let's say 15 years ... there may be 30 or even more Princes of Belgium. I read somewhere that King George V reformed the princely title system because of numerous Princes of the United Kingdom existing all around Europe
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  #22  
Old 05-18-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
and the oldest Archduchess Andreas married Hereditary Count Karl Eugen of Neipperg, who will once day succed his fathhr succeed as head of this mediatized House.
Oops, how could I forget Archduchess Andrea, yes you are totally right!
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  #23  
Old 05-18-2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
Since Prince Amedeo is getting married this summer, we will see if King Philippe will release a new decree to change things (this should be the case). As you said in ... let's say 15 years ... there may be 30 or even more Princes of Belgium. I read somewhere that King George V reformed the princely title system because of numerous Princes of the United Kingdom existing all around Europe
In 2002 in the Netherlands the Royal House Act has been modernized. The thought of the lawmaker: the titles Prince(ss) of the Netherlands and Prince(ss) of Orange-Nassau must express a close bond to the Bearer of the Crown. Since 2002 only the children of a King and of a Heir will get these titles. Special provisions are made in the Act for special cases, like the spouse of the King or the Heir.

Result: only the daughters of Willem-Alexander are Princess of the Netherlands and Princess of Orange-Nassau. The children of his brothers Friso and Constantijn do not have these titles.

The Belgians can follow this example: the title Prince(ss) of Belgium is only for children of a King or a Heir. This means that the children of the younger Princes can have another title, like in the Dutch example.
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  #24  
Old 05-18-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Camberwell View Post
If, for instance, Princess Maria Laura of Belgium grew up and married a commoner, would he get any title from his marriage to her?

I'd be very grateful for anyone who would be kind enough to help me!

Thank you very much.
Strictly speaking, he will not, and neither will the fiancée of her brother Prince Amedeo. By the royal decree of December 2, 1991 (effective December 15, 1991), spouses of Belgian princes(ses) do not bear titles by marriage.

Even so, King Albert II created the spouses of Prince Philippe, Princess Astrid, and Prince Laurent Princes(ses) of Belgium in their own right. It remains to be seen whether King Philippe shall do likewise for Prince Amedeo's fiancée and the future spouses of his siblings.

In the event that Princess Maria Laura chooses to call herself Mrs. XY after marriage, it is unlikely to be appended to her formal title. No other princess of Belgium (by blood) is formally styled in Belgium with her husband's surname or title.
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  #25  
Old 05-18-2014, 03:57 PM
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So if King Phillipe decides not to grant Amadeo's wife a Belgian title she will be Archduchess Amadeo of Austria-Este with no Belgium title?
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2014, 07:35 AM
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Yes. Prince Lorenz has also various tittles , such as Duc de Bar.
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Belgians have a most peculiar (and in my eyes unlucky) system. The Royal Decree of 2 December 1991 says the following: "[....] the title Prince or Princess of Belgium will be granted to the Princes and Princesses whom will be born by our descendants in direct line [....]"

This means that the title is hereditary to all descendants of King Albert II, in both the male and female lineage. This leads to a staggering 22 Princes/Princesses of Belgium today and this will only increase, causing an inflation of that title. To answer your question: when this Royal Decree is not adapted, children of Archuchess Maria Laura of Austria-Este , Princess of Belgium can become Prince(ss) of Belgium indeed but NOT Archduke (Archduchess) of Austria-Este, since that is only hereditary via the male lineage.

Sweden seems to have the same problem, though not quite enshrined in law as in Belgium. In any case, I am pretty sure they will eventually limit the hereditary transmission of the title at some point.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Sweden seems to have the same problem, though not quite enshrined in law as in Belgium. In any case, I am pretty sure they will eventually limit the hereditary transmission of the title at some point.
As far as I understand the situation in Sweden, it's the monarch who decides what title, if any, a member of the royal family is to have. By the time the children of Madeleine and Carl Philip are old enough to have children of their own it's most likely Victoria who are the monarch and my guess is that it's unlikely that she will create her grandnieces and grandnephews as prince(ess) of Sweden, nor give them any ducal titles. Do remember that Gustav V took away the royal titles from his grandsons when they married commoners.
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:30 AM
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By the time the children of Madeleine and Carl Philip are old enough to have children of their own it's most likely Victoria who are the monarch and my guess is that it's unlikely that she will create her grandnieces and grandnephews as prince(ess) of Sweden, nor give them any ducal titles.
-->> And maybe they will be happy to be less visible, out of the limelight. Depends on their upbringing of course, but in Madeleines case I can see this clearly happening.


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.... Do remember that Gustav V took away the royal titles from his grandsons when they married commoners.
-->> Well, these were different times and a different law was in place when it came to marriages.
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  #30  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:37 AM
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If a Belgian princess married an ordinary man…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Sweden seems to have the same problem, though not quite enshrined in law as in Belgium. In any case, I am pretty sure they will eventually limit the hereditary transmission of the title at some point.


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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
As far as I understand the situation in Sweden, it's the monarch who decides what title, if any, a member of the royal family is to have. By the time the children of Madeleine and Carl Philip are old enough to have children of their own it's most likely Victoria who are the monarch and my guess is that it's unlikely that she will create her grandnieces and grandnephews as prince(ess) of Sweden, nor give them any ducal titles. Do remember that Gustav V took away the royal titles from his grandsons when they married commoners.


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Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
-->> And maybe they will be happy to be less visible, out of the limelight. Depends on their upbringing of course, but in Madeleines case I can see this clearly happening.




-->> Well, these were different times and a different law was in place when it came to marriages.

How should I put this without having the post deleted... I'm absolutely sure that if Victoria and Daniel had one or two more children Madeleines children wouldn't have any royal titles.


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  #31  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:42 AM
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How should I put this without having the post deleted... I'm absolutely sure that if Victoria and Daniel had one or two more children Madeleines children wouldn't have any royal titles.


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But Victoria and Daniel can still have more children.
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  #32  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
Well, these were different times and a different law was in place when it came to marriages.
I meant that the monarch decides about titles within the royal family, even if the princes lost their right in the Swedish succession and their royal titles, Gustav V could have done as his father Oscar II did in 1888 when Gustav V:s younger brother married a commoner, and give the non-hereditary title of prince Bernadotte to his grandsons and given the title princess Bernadotte to their wives.
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  #33  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
I meant that the monarch decides about titles within the royal family, even if the princes lost their right in the Swedish succession and their royal titles, Gustav V could have done as his father Oscar II did in 1888 when Gustav V:s younger brother married a commoner, and give the non-hereditary title of prince Bernadotte to his grandsons and given the title princess Bernadotte to their wives.

Regardless of their titles (or lack thereof), all descendants of King Carl Gustaf will be in line to the throne under Swedish law, no matter how far their generation is from the current king.
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  #34  
Old 05-02-2015, 09:34 AM
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IIRC in order to be in the line of succession they also have to be Lutheran and raised in Sweden. These two conditions can easily help to limit those able to succeed to the Throne in the future.
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  #35  
Old 05-02-2015, 09:40 AM
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IIRC in order to be in the line of succession they also have to be Lutheran and raised in Sweden. These two conditions can easily help to limit those able to succeed to the Throne in the future.
And they need permisoj from the King and goverment fior their marriages.
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