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  #341  
Old 12-13-2014, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

Fabiola wore Baudouin's wedding ring and even his wristwatch for years. She also wore a beautiful image of her late husband around her neck. Have any of the Belgian posters heard if the queen was buried with these keepsakes, or did she leave them with family members?
I'll ask my brother tomorrow I didn't went there, when my grandfather died I was so traumatized by the open coffin that I promised never to see anyone dead again

Not to start another polemic, but I was talking with my grandmother about how prince Laurent didn't bow before the coffin in the cathedral. Did I miss that moment? If not, was there any reason for that? I noticed he bowed towards the tabernacle when he left, so it would have been strange that he didn't bow in front of the coffin, knowing the press would notice?
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  #342  
Old 12-13-2014, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue_ View Post
Not to start another polemic, but I was talking with my grandmother about how prince Laurent didn't bow before the coffin in the cathedral. Did I miss that moment? If not, was there any reason for that? I noticed he bowed towards the tabernacle when he left, so it would have been strange that he didn't bow in front of the coffin, knowing the press would notice?
we didn't see him bowing, but we didn't see him at all at that moment.
so in fact we don't know
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  #343  
Old 12-13-2014, 09:46 PM
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I noticed that during the Salve Rociera, when the camera was on King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, you could see Prince Laurent at the far right of the screen bobbing back and forth, obviously enjoying the music.
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  #344  
Old 12-13-2014, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue_ View Post
Not to start another polemic, but I was talking with my grandmother about how prince Laurent didn't bow before the coffin in the cathedral. Did I miss that moment? If not, was there any reason for that? I noticed he bowed towards the tabernacle when he left, so it would have been strange that he didn't bow in front of the coffin, knowing the press would notice?

Blue, he did bow low before his aunt's open coffin when she was placed in the Royal Palace at Brussels for viewing Tuesday evening.
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  #345  
Old 12-14-2014, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The guests at the wedding of Crown Princess Victoria or at the Investiture of King Willem-Alexander all were, one by one, escorted by an Aide-de-Camp or a Hovdam (Swe) / Hofdame (NL) so that they would never have a moment of "what do I have to do now?"
In that aspect, this funeral indeed lacked organization but I must say that is eh... "Belgian" too: just do something and "in the end it will be good. Maybe. Hopefully. Life is too short. We will see. Don't worry."
There were personal attendants or aides attached to the most important guests, such as the Kings and Queens at this funeral too...they all wore uniforms of the Belgian military, officers in rank.

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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Blue, he did bow low before his aunt's open coffin when she was placed in the Royal Palace at Brussels for viewing Tuesday evening.
I'm sure he was not disrespectful. BTW, funerals are for those who were left alive in this world. They are about remembering and celebrating the life and work of the deceased. Of course, there is grief and everyone's feelings as natural in this case as sadness have to be expressed, but it's totally personal and individual thing.

There are some press reports here in Poland on the fact that our former Prime Minister and now the so-called President of the European Union, Donald Tusk, who is in his new post for almost two weeks now and who is meant to be the EU's highest representative on international level, didn't show up at the funeral. Some court etiquette expert says he was the right person to represent the EU there. Meanwhile, it was Jean-Claude Juncker, the new President of the European Commission, thus junior to Tusk in precedence, who was present. Maybe it was because of his naturally closer links to Belgium (he's Luxembourg's former and longtime Prime Minister) than Tusk's.

Another "controversy" is about our President, Bronislaw Komorowski. He comes from the very same family as Queen Mathilde's mother so he has personal and familial links to the RF and sometimes makes references to that. When Philippe and Mathilde were visiting Warsaw this year on his invitation, they really seemed cosy and familiar with each other. Yet, he did not show up or even send an official condolences and that's inappropriate. That's what the said "expert" says and what some tabloids and websites put on their articles.

However, I think he definitely didn't have to come to this funeral as he is surely not that close to Mathilde. Additionally, it was not a state funeral so he didn't have to do this also because of the protocol.

We don't expect our President to attend former queens consorts' funerals. It's national and maybe, pan-royal occassion really, of little international and diplomatic importance. For the same reason, I don't think the President had to issue any official condolences in his capacity as head of state. I would only expect our Ambassador in Brussels to attend, simply because it's his work to be present and represent Poland in important moments of Belgium and the Belgians' lives.

Immediately after the press articles I've mentioned were published, the President's official stated that Mr and Mrs Komorowski sent a personal letter to the Royal Family with their condolences immediately after the death of Queen Fabiola. And that's OK with me.
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  #346  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Blue_ View Post
Not to start another polemic, but I was talking with my grandmother about how prince Laurent didn't bow before the coffin in the cathedral. Did I miss that moment? If not, was there any reason for that? I noticed he bowed towards the tabernacle when he left, so it would have been strange that he didn't bow in front of the coffin, knowing the press would notice?
Laurent is Laurent. As only one wearing a blue suit, switching for sunglasses inside a church, making weird gestures, forgetting to bow to his late aunt. I think hopes have been given up.
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  #347  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:01 AM
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There were personal attendants or aides attached to the most important guests, such as the Kings and Queens at this funeral too...they all wore uniforms of the Belgian military, officers in rank.
Believe me, I have seen it from A to Z, the coverage already started before the Queen left the Royal Palace and it was a chaotic mess. The Dutch journalist Hans Jacobs is a well-respected veteran in coverage of royal events. When he writes about a chaotic organization and reporting how the protocollary highest guests (the Empress of Japan, the Queen of Denmark, the King and Queen of Sweden and the King of Norway) had to stay in the Cathedral for the longest time while all around them were leaving.... Can you imagine that? The people standing up, stumbling, chatting, coats on, umbrellas open, blablablablabla and slowly a sea of empty chairs. And there they are.... the highest guests, looking round in bewilderment. Reason: their transportation was a mess. It was really very poorly organized.
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  #348  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:08 AM
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Is it any special reason (religious or other) that Queen Paola and another Belgian Princess (Pcs Lea I think) wore black lace vale, and the other royal ladies just hats?
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  #349  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Believe me, I have seen it from A to Z, the coverage already started before the Queen left the Royal Palace and it was a chaotic mess.
Might i suggest that for the people who were more taken in by the spirit of the funeral and the moving images of the family mourning their beloved aunt, the possible organisational flaws may not have been too much of a problem...

I'm sure you saw what you saw and to you it's a big deal, but to others the most important thing was that Queen Fabiola got the farewell she wanted (as i understand it, things were done exactly as she had arranged them)
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  #350  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Believe me, I have seen it from A to Z, the coverage already started before the Queen left the Royal Palace and it was a chaotic mess. The Dutch journalist Hans Jacobs is a well-respected veteran in coverage of royal events. When he writes about a chaotic organization and reporting how the protocollary highest guests (the Empress of Japan, the Queen of Denmark, the King and Queen of Sweden and the King of Norway) had to stay in the Cathedral for the longest time while all around them were leaving....
The Empress of Japan was one of the first, if not the first who were escorted out of the cathedral.
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  #351  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Might i suggest that for the people who were more taken in by the spirit of the funeral and the moving images of the family mourning their beloved aunt, the possible organisational flaws may not have been too much of a problem...

I'm sure you saw what you saw and to you it's a big deal, but to others the most important thing was that Queen Fabiola got the farewell she wanted (as i understand it, things were done exactly as she had arranged them)
My simple observation was: chaos. Maybe you like chaos but I think for most "common people", they want their wedding or their funeral being organized as smooth as possible, so that all will tell later "that was a perfect wedding" or "that was really a beautiful and well-organized funeral".
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  #352  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
My simple observation was: chaos. Maybe you like chaos but I think for most "common people", they want their wedding or their funeral being organized as smooth as possible, so that all will tell later "that was a perfect wedding" or "that was really a beautiful and well-organized funeral".

I admit that the arrival and exit of the guests from the church could have been better organized. Apart from that, the mass itself ran quite smoothly and was fit for a dowager queen in terms of the music, the solemn liturgy, etc. Fabiola's rather sudden and unexpected demise means everything had to be put together at relatively short notice. Considering that and given the awful weather outside, I would say the Belgians did quite well and I see no reason to bash them.
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  #353  
Old 12-14-2014, 09:19 AM
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The day after the funeral: https://www.facebook.com/vtm.royalty...042742/?type=1

The people of Royalty, a Belgian tv-show (who posted this picture), will have an extra episode about the funeral today. I'll post here when there are some new insights :)
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  #354  
Old 12-14-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Blue, he did bow low before his aunt's open coffin when she was placed in the Royal Palace at Brussels for viewing Tuesday evening.
Yes, that's why I find it strange. He did it by purpose, because the rest of the family bowed...

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Laurent is Laurent. As only one wearing a blue suit, switching for sunglasses inside a church, making weird gestures, forgetting to bow to his late aunt. I think hopes have been given up.
You're right, I think I'll go with that
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  #355  
Old 12-14-2014, 10:26 AM
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The same priest, Père Benoît Lobet, Doyen of Enghien, stated in the newspapers of SudPresse (and paste-and-copied by all media) that Queen Fabiola did not want a funeral in the Cathedral but only in her local parish church in Laeken, that she did not want to be laid-in-state, etc. We have seen all these apparent wishes ignored. She was even shown to the world without a veil (her spouse was veiled), in a "chapelle ardente" which was in full floodlight... So what is the truth? What were her wishes?
Yes, but her hairdresser said she made him promessed several times that after her dead he would do her hair, so she would look beautiful. And she also asked her maid to dress her with clothes she had bought for the occasion.
Also, the priest said that she joked with buying an awful coffin, so they would be too ashamed to show it. And then, during the funeral we hear she wanted a white one, the color of ressurection. So, if, like the priest said, she wanted nothing ceremonial, why would she have her coffin prepared + a hairdresser + a new suit? And would she really have asked cardinal Danneels to celebrate and Will Tura and the Spanish choir to sing?
I don't know if anyone of you went to the N-D of Laeken church, but it's quite small. And she didn't lose her mind, she still knew she was a former queen, and so there was no way to escape. Plus, she probably have talked about it with her close family, so I have much difficulties believing what the priest said. I tought it was disrespectful of him to talk about her private life in such a way. My tought is that he had his moment of glory and said all he could and wanted to...
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  #356  
Old 12-14-2014, 11:01 AM
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I agree. I was flabbergasted that the Queen's Confessor, Père Lobet, was so blablabla to the press. One would think that a Confessor keeps all secrets with him into his own grave...

The same counts for the coiffeur. Come on, what is that for a blabbermouth, telling on TV about how the Queen wanted her hair in her coffin? In this forum I have read from another poster who went to the palace (I believe Gilles from Liège) that old Queen missed her usual bouffante hairdo b.t.w.
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  #357  
Old 12-14-2014, 11:27 AM
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It was no speech, Princess Elisabeth was one of the participants to recite the prayers of the faithful, as it is called. I have tried to translate it as best I can:

HRH The Duchess of Brabant
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. Uncle Baudouin and Aunt Fabiola have continuously searched for peace, again and again by going to meet each and everyone. Inspired by their example, Lord, give us the strength to give up our aggressiveness and to recognize that we are all brothers. Help to make us artisans of peace, justice, gentleness and mercy.

HRH Prince Gabriel of Belgium
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Comfort us, heal our wounded hearts, that we may be joyful instruments of Your consolidation for those who live amidst the trials of life, for those who have no voice, for those who are excluded, for the sick, for the prisoners, for those who suffer from hunger and loneliness. Lord, grant us that our life is a reflection of Your love.

HRH The Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Lord, reveal to us Your face of Love, You who truly meek, You, the true peacemaker, the truly poor in spirit, the persecuted under the persecuted. Give us, that we discover the joy that You are offering us now. Give us that we live according the Beatitudes, which send down Heaven upon earth, and that we begin eternal life today.

HRH Princess Louise of Belgium
Lord, we pray for Your Church. Enable the Holy Father, all Your shepherds, all the consecrated and all those who are baptised, to be attentive to the Gospel each day and to serve in the image of Christ, who washes peoples' feet and gives His life for love. Holy Spirit, we beseech You, come, drench the arid, heal the wounded, that all may be reconciled with God.

HI&RH Archduke Amedeo of Austria-Este, Prince of Belgium
Lord, we pray for the couples. Give them, the image of Love and the Beloved from the Song of Songs, let them marvel in joy every day. Give us, Lord, give families the option that King Baudouin and Queen Fabiola experienced: to wonder and to rediscover each other in daily life and make it a source of joy.

Doña Blanca Escrivá de Romaní y Mora, Marchioness of Ahumada
The eternal love of God shed in our hearts is the symbol of marriage and family as it also was in the life of King Baudouin and Queen Fabiola, whom has born her illness with such courage and serenity as a way to achieve her desire for holiness. May her example endure in all of us. With the Virgin Mary we pray to the Lord.

Thank you so much for the translations. As I was busy for a vast majority of the day on Friday, I only got to watch short clips of the funeral on YouTube and saw Princess Elisabeth reading and assumed she was performing a speech (probably because she is the heiress apparent). It was lovely that Prince Gabriel and Princess Louise got to read out prayers as well. Prince Gabriel must have been particularly close to his great-aunt Queen Fabiola as he was moved to tears during the service. This photo of Princes Gabriel and Emmanuel is lovely:

Photo

I also noticed that Prince Laurent was putting his thumbs up at some point during the service. I wonder if it was because he was enjoying a particular song, but it does strike me as a rather odd thing to do at a funeral.
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  #358  
Old 12-14-2014, 12:29 PM
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I also noticed that Prince Laurent was putting his thumbs up at some point during the service. I wonder if it was because he was enjoying a particular song, but it does strike me as a rather odd thing to do at a funeral.



I don´t wanne be rude, but this has been discussed on this thread a 100 times before....
Again: Laurent was proud of his daughter Louise who spoke a few sentences in front of the congregation in fluent english. As a response he put his thumb up, a very fitting reaction of a proud parent, I think.

Thank you for the Gabriel/ Emmanuel-photo, though! It is very cute indeed.
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  #359  
Old 12-14-2014, 12:37 PM
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I was flabbergasted that the Queen's Confessor, Père Lobet, was so blablabla to the press. One would think that a Confessor keeps all secrets with him into his own grave...
My thought exactly. But you know, sometimes people handle in a ridicule stange manner when they have a journalist in front of them
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  #360  
Old 12-14-2014, 12:50 PM
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The Empress of Japan was one of the first, if not the first who were escorted out of the cathedral.
Empress Michiko is closer to the Belgian RF than I realized. Philippe phoned her personally to tell her about Fabiola's passing before it became public. I suspect he might have done that with all his aunt's closest friends like Beatrix of the Netherlands and Sofia and JC of Spain. He is an extraordinarily gracious man, very much like his late uncle King Baudouin.


Empress bids farewell to friend and former Belgian Queen Fabiola - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
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