The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #81  
Old 09-15-2016, 04:33 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 9,709
Nine out of ten (!) people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. They find that former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should not get money, if they do not properly perform their duties. According to a survey by the VTM program Royalty amongst 1000 people.

Most respondents also thought the government should better check whether members of the royal family indeed perform their duties. Royal grants remain a source of debate. The royal family self feeds the discussion. So was Prince Laurent found to have abused his grant: he had to return 16.000 Euro to the Treasury. Recently former Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo stated that the abdicated King Albert thought his annual grant of 923.000 Euro was not sufficient. Since his abdication the former King barely appeared on the public stage. For three consecutive years the former King did not attend the Fête Nationale.

These cases have influenced how people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium look to these royal grants. Nine out of ten people have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. More than 85 percent of respondents also feel that the government should ensure that members of the royal family fulfill their tasks.

Regardless of this, more than nine in ten respondents thought that the grants to former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should be restricted or abolished. More than eight out of ten respondents also thought that Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent just have to go to work and earn their own living.

The figures show even that barely 1 in 5 of the respondents have confidence in former King Albert since he is no longer a head of state. King Philippe has a better score: 63,1 percent of the respondents have confidence in him as head of state. The inquiry was ordered by the program Royalty from the Dutch-speaking Belgian network VTM.

Source: "Dotaties Laurent en Astrid afschaffen" - HLN.be
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 09-15-2016, 04:53 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 9,709
After his abdication the annual grant to former King Albert is half a million Euro less than was promised. Therefore the former King is still not pleased. When the former King discussed the intention to abdicate, the then Prime Minister Mr Elio Di Rupo (Parti Socialiste) already committed an annual grant of 1.4 million Euro. It turned out that the then Vice-Prime Minister, Mr Alexander De Croo (Flemish Liberals) did not agree with such a high amount.

On July 21 2013 Prince Philippe did succeed his father. A week earlier the Government decided to grant the abdicated King 923.000 Euro per year. This is bruto: the King still had to pay taxes over it. In the program Autopsy on RTBf radio (the French-speaking public channel) former Prime Minister Mr Elio Di Rupo told that he was in favor of a much higher amount: "I found that the grant should be similar to the situation in the Netherlands." (Princess Beatrix receives an indexed grant, at the moment 1.464.000 Euro, free of taxation).

Former Prime Minister Mr Elio Di Rupo: "I suggested 1.4 million, but that amount was also a sort of recognition for the work he has done. He was the King who kept the country together. To my dismay, inside the Government I was faced with opposition by the Flemish Liberals." Mr Alexander De Croo, back then Vice-Prime Minister and responsible for pensions, confirmed that he did not agree with the amount as proposed by Mr Di Rupo: "As monarch Albert II absolutely did what was expected of him, so he certainly had the right to a proper grant. But I found the proposal from Di Rupo too generous. That was nearly 100 times the average pension of an ordinary Belgian, in a time the Government asked the people to sacrifice. Within the Government the majority of the ministers was on the same line as De Croo: "As Heir, Prince Philippe received a grant of 923.000 euros. I found that King Albert could get the same amount after his abdication."

(Apparently the King feels betrayed because in the discussion about his desire to abdicate, logically the post-abdication arrangements were discussed and apparently the King had the reassurance of the Prime Minister that he could count on an annual allowance of 1,4 million Euro. Once King Albert had abdicated, it turned out 500.000 Euro less... Not very gentlemanlike indeed.)

Source: Koning Albert boos: hij krijgt 500.000 euro minder dan Di Rupo beloofde - HLN.be
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 09-17-2016, 11:19 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 1,776



Thank you for all the information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Nine out of ten (!) people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. They find that former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should not get money, if they do not properly perform their duties. According to a survey by the VTM program Royalty amongst 1000 people.

Most respondents also thought the government should better check whether members of the royal family indeed perform their duties. Royal grants remain a source of debate. The royal family self feeds the discussion. So was Prince Laurent found to have abused his grant: he had to return 16.000 Euro to the Treasury. Recently former Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo stated that the abdicated King Albert thought his annual grant of 923.000 Euro was not sufficient. Since his abdication the former King barely appeared on the public stage. For three consecutive years the former King did not attend the Fête Nationale.

These cases have influenced how people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium look to these royal grants. Nine out of ten people have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. More than 85 percent of respondents also feel that the government should ensure that members of the royal family fulfill their tasks.

Regardless of this, more than nine in ten respondents thought that the grants to former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should be restricted or abolished. More than eight out of ten respondents also thought that Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent just have to go to work and earn their own living.

The figures show even that barely 1 in 5 of the respondents have confidence in former King Albert since he is no longer a head of state. King Philippe has a better score: 63,1 percent of the respondents have confidence in him as head of state. The inquiry was ordered by the program Royalty from the Dutch-speaking Belgian network VTM.

Source: "Dotaties Laurent en Astrid afschaffen" - HLN.be
91% wil geen dotaties voor Laurent en Astrid | VTM NIEUWS

Grants to King Philippe & Queen Mathilde: 69.0% preserve, 25.7% restrict, 5.3% abolish
Grants to King Albert II & Queen Paola: 56.2% restrict, 34.4% abolish, 9.5% preserve
Grant to Princess Elisabeth: 39.2% restrict, 31.2% preserve, 29.6% abolish
Grant to Princess Astrid: 54.5% abolish, 35.9% restrict, 9.6% preserve
Grant to Prince Laurent: 60.5% abolish, 32.8% restrict, 6.7% preserve
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 09-18-2016, 12:41 AM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 5,551
This seems very sad
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-18-2016, 04:24 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 9,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
This seems very sad
For so far the Belgians are quite generous. In neighbouring Netherlands never ever anyone other than the present, the future and the former King (and their eventual spouses) have received a grant from the State.

In Belgium the Nr 12 in the line of succession (Prince Laurent) still gets an annual grant... so it was just waiting on the flood of criticism, especially with the family showing a total disfunctionality.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 02-06-2018, 06:34 AM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 20,961
In 2017 the private trips of the king and queen have cost the Belgian taxpayer a sum of 116.736,- euros. The costs relate to the use of an airplane of the Belgian air force. The additional costs of security etc. were not added to this sum.

The article claims that the private travels of the king and queen are more costly than their functional travel costs. This is a lie. The total costs for working trips were 335.929 euros.

No other members of the royal family have used an airplane of the defense department in 2018.

Source:
https://www.hln.be/showbizz/royalty/...-euro~a76c9b1d

***
Note:

For a comparison: the air travels of the Dutch RF were costing the Dutch taxpayer 883.000 euros in 2016.
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 02-06-2018, 07:16 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post



Thank you for all the information.



91% wil geen dotaties voor Laurent en Astrid | VTM NIEUWS

Grants to King Philippe & Queen Mathilde: 69.0% preserve, 25.7% restrict, 5.3% abolish
Grants to King Albert II & Queen Paola: 56.2% restrict, 34.4% abolish, 9.5% preserve
Grant to Princess Elisabeth: 39.2% restrict, 31.2% preserve, 29.6% abolish
Grant to Princess Astrid: 54.5% abolish, 35.9% restrict, 9.6% preserve
Grant to Prince Laurent: 60.5% abolish, 32.8% restrict, 6.7% preserve
Princess Elisabeth doesn't get any grants (at least not yet). The poll is nonsensical then and just illustrates how badly informed the public is. They may think Astrid and Laurent are swimming in public money (which is not the case) and, most likely, they completely ignore the work they do on behalf of the Belgian state, especially Astrid with her economic/trade missions.

The Belgian RF's problem is bad PR.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 02-06-2018, 09:18 AM
Marchesina's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: a town near the Adriatic coast, Italy
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
In 2017 the private trips of the king and queen have cost the Belgian taxpayer a sum of 116.736,- euros. The costs relate to the use of an airplane of the Belgian air force. The additional costs of security etc. were not added to this sum.

The article claims that the private travels of the king and queen are more costly than their functional travel costs. This is a lie. The total costs for working trips were 335.929 euros.

No other members of the royal family have used an airplane of the defense department in 2018.

Source:
https://www.hln.be/showbizz/royalty/...-euro~a76c9b1d

***
Note:

For a comparison: the air travels of the Dutch RF were costing the Dutch taxpayer 883.000 euros in 2016.
Is any other news outlet debunking this news? These sorts of articles can be extremely dangerous...

I agree with Mbruno, the RF should hire a better PR team.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:01 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: US, United States
Posts: 5
What would happen to the Royal Trust and the palaces if Belgium abolishes its monarchy?
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:21 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,595
I really don't know because the way they were given over to the State also had a clause the property of the royal trust would "remain at the disposal to the successors to the Belgian throne"
I guess you could interpret that two ways if the monarchy was abolished - there is no longer a throne to have successors to
or
the successors of the throne are no longer ruling but still successors

Maybe another posters know more about the Trust to be able to give a better answer.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:32 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspot View Post
What would happen to the Royal Trust and the palaces if Belgium abolishes its monarchy?

The Royal Castle of Laeken and the Royal Palace of Brussels are actually owned by the Belgian state and, presumably, would continue to be so. The Royal Trust, which includes other residences such as Ciergnon, Fenffe, Stuyvenberg, Belvédère, as well as Astrid's and Laurent's villas and the greenhouses and the park of the Castle of Laeken, is a different and more complex matter.

When King Leopold II transferred his private assets to the Trust, his donation was explicitly conditional on three terms: that the land and buildings would never be sold, that they would have to retain their function and appearance, and that they would remain at the disposal of the successors to the Belgian throne. If Belgium becomes a republic, there won't be a throne to succeed to, but I suppose the royal family could make a legal case that that they are perpetually entitled to the right of disposal over the Trust assets under the terms of the donation. It remains to be seen whether they would succeed in court or not.

Anyway, your question is purely speculative, as was a similar question asked in the British forums about the future of the revenue from the Crown estate and the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall if Britain became a republic. Nobody can know for sure in my humble opinion.




EDIT: There is a page on the Belgian monarchy site (click on this link ), which mentions the three conditions above and also provides further information on the Royal Trust.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:54 PM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 4,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The Royal Castle of Laeken and the Royal Palace of Brussels are actually owned by the Belgian state and, presumably, would continue to be so. The Royal Trust, which includes other residences such as Ciergnon, Fenffe, Stuyvenberg, Belvédère, as well as Astrid's and Laurent's villas and the greenhouses and the park of the Castle of Laeken, is a different and more complex matter.

When King Leopold II transferred his private assets to the Trust, his donation was explicitly conditional on three terms: that the land and buildings would never be sold, that they would have to retain their function and appearance, and that they would remain at the disposal of the successors to the Belgian throne. If Belgium becomes a republic, there won't be a throne to succeed to, but I suppose the royal family could make a legal case that that they are perpetually entitled to the right of disposal over the Trust assets under the terms of the donation. It remains to be seen whether they would succeed in court or not.

Anyway, your question is purely speculative, as was a similar question asked in the British forums about the future of the revenue from the Crown estate and the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall if Britain became a republic. Nobody can know for sure in my humble opinion.




EDIT: There is a page on the Belgian monarchy site (click on this link ), which mentions the three conditions above and also provides further information on the Royal Trust.

The links asays also that the Park and Castle of Laeken are Parte of the Trust so they don't belong to the belgian State.
__________________
Stefan



Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 08-20-2018, 03:06 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
The links asays also that the Park Castle of Laeken are Parte of the Trust so they don't belong to the belgian State.

My understanding is that the castle itself belongs to the State, whereas the park, the greenhouses and some other buildings like the Asian pavilions are part of the Trust. But you are right that the site says "le parc et le Château", so my previous information may be wrong.


PS: I checked the Dutch and English translations of the page and they also say that the "park and the Castle" are part of the Trust. In any case, the Royal Palace of Brussels for sure is owned by the State and is not part of the Trust.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 02-27-2019, 12:31 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 9,709
There is upheaval in Belgian media and politics about the flying costs of King Philippe, which was 143.148 Euro in 2014 but has grown 6 times more to 843.293 Euro.

The pain point is that King Philippe urged in his Christmas Address to be aware of our carbon footprint. But in 2017 he made 22 flights but 12 of these were private (but at the expense of the taxpayer). The Government defended the King: he HAS to use planes from the Belgian Air Force for trips abroad.

In defence to the King: his Dutch colleague has a budget of 860.000 Euro for aviation costs, so the costs are more or less on the same level now. The painpoint is the "hypocrisy" of talking about carbon footprint and then ignoring the own message.

Leave it to the separatists of NV-A and Vlaams Belang or the marxists of the PTB/PVDA to attack the monarchy for this ("imposing austerity on Belgians but private flying around the world on the purse of the same Belgians").

https://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/r...t-op-be919595/
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 02-27-2019, 01:04 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There is upheaval in Belgian media and politics about the flying costs of King Philippe, which was 143.148 Euro in 2014 but has grown 6 times more to 843.293 Euro.

The pain point is that King Philippe urged in his Christmas Address to be aware of our carbon footprint. But in 2017 he made 22 flights but 12 of these were private (but at the expense of the taxpayer). The Government defended the King: he HAS to use planes from the Belgian Air Force for trips abroad.

In defence to the King: his Dutch colleague has a budget of 860.000 Euro for aviation costs, so the costs are more or less on the same level now. The painpoint is the "hypocrisy" of talking about carbon footprint and then ignoring the own message.

Leave it to the separatists of NV-A and Vlaams Belang or the marxists of the PTB/PVDA to attack the monarchy for this ("imposing austerity on Belgians but private flying around the world on the purse of the same Belgians").

https://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/r...t-op-be919595/



King Philippe seems to go on far more state or official visits overseas than his father did in the last years of his reign. Those visits are decided by the Belgian government and are in Belgium's national interest, so I don't see much room for complaining here.


On the other hand, Philippe and his family also seem to go on vacation overseas quite frequently, sometimes even to far away places like India. If they use Belgian Air Force planes for those trips (which is likely for security reasons), then I believe the separatists/republicans might have a valid point.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 02-27-2019, 01:27 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 5,715
Only the dutch sources ? we have two languages , perhaps Duke the french language is difficult to you ! Thanks Mbruno !!
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 02-27-2019, 02:30 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 9,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Only the dutch sources ? we have two languages , perhaps Duke the french language is difficult to you ! Thanks Mbruno !!
Well, no one stops you to provide a link yourself to Le Soir, La Libre Belgique, La Dernière Heure, etc. They all have the same news which I summarised in English.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 03-30-2019, 03:47 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 9,709
The King has requested that his daughter, Princess Elisabeth, will not receive an annual dotation (€ 925.000,--). The Princess turns 18 this year but enjoys studies abroad. The King wants to shield his daughter away from public life, as long as possible. Such a dotation brings pressure, which the King wants to avoid.

With acting so, he takes the wind out of the sails of the anti-monarchist parties (there are General Elections coming). But he also sets a precedent: will future Belgian monarchs feel to do the same when the heir turns 18? Will foreign colleagues now feel pressure to avoid a dotation as well, for an example the Princess of Orange? ("Look at the Belgians!").

Dutch: Voorlopig geen dotatie voor kroonprinses Elisabeth (Brussel) - De Standaard Mobile

French: https://www.dhnet.be/actu/belgique/p...ad58747733ac48
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 03-30-2019, 05:05 AM
CrownPrincessJava's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ,, Australia
Posts: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The King has requested that his daughter, Princess Elisabeth, will not receive an annual dotation (€ 925.000,--). The Princess turns 18 this year but enjoys studies abroad. The King wants to shield his daughter away from public life, as long as possible. Such a dotation brings pressure, which the King wants to avoid.

With acting so, he takes the wind out of the sails of the anti-monarchist parties (there are General Elections coming). But he also sets a precedent: will future Belgian monarchs feel to do the same when the heir turns 18? Will foreign colleagues now feel pressure to avoid a dotation as well, for an example the Princess of Orange? ("Look at the Belgians!").

Dutch: Voorlopig geen dotatie voor kroonprinses Elisabeth (Brussel) - De Standaard Mobile

French: https://www.dhnet.be/actu/belgique/p...ad58747733ac48
When did King Philipe receive his dotation?
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 03-30-2019, 05:25 AM
Sunnystar's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon, United States
Posts: 423
My thought is that as long as she is still in school/university, it's reasonable to not give her a dotation, and to keep her life as private as possible.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
belgian royal family, dotations, finances


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Royals & Nobles and Wealth, Costs and Finances kcc Royal Life and Lifestyle 446 11-03-2019 06:42 PM
Costs, Income and Fortune of the Dutch Royal Family Henri M. Dutch Royals 205 09-24-2019 05:27 PM
Royal Wealth and Finances Smartie2091 British Royals 1390 07-12-2019 02:54 AM
The Belgian Royal Family and the name Marie Empress Royal Family of Belgium 15 06-24-2008 05:39 AM




Popular Tags
alqasimi aristocracy armenia belgian royal family birthday celebration castles charles of wales countess of snowdon crown crown prince hussein crown prince hussein's future wife crown princess victoria current events cyprus danish history denmark duchess of sussex duke & duchess of cambridge; duke of cambridge duke of sussex dutch history earl of wessex felipe vi foundation french revolution genealogy germany greece headship henry v house of bourbon house of glucksburg house of orange-nassau house of saxe-coburg and gotha kiko lithuanian castles marriage meghan markle memoir mohammed vi monaco christening monaco history monarchism monogram naples nobel 2019 norwegian royal family official visit palaces potential areas prince harry prince of wales prince peter princess royal russian imperial family saudi arabia savoy saxony shakespeare south korea spain spanish history state visit sweden swedish royal family swedish royalty united kingdom usa viscount severn windy city


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019
Jelsoft Enterprises
×