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  #21  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:33 PM
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I really am a big fan of the royal family but for me the dotations should only go to King Alber/Queen Paola, Queen FAbiola and Prince Philippe/princess Mathilde the rest of the royal family should go to work.

We only see prince Laurent a few times in a year and then hearing that he earns 8666€ for each workday of 2 hours is really to much! Even inportant leading business men/women earn less than the prince and these people have to work day in day out with a lot of stress. Nowadays prince Laurent has a very bad realtionship with the press so we harldy see him doing anything.
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2008, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
According to Belgian TV Programme 'Royalty' prince Laurent earns a net amount of 8666,- euros for each workday. Last years his dotation was 312.000 euros for 36 public events. An official event on average lasts 2 hours.

For Filips and Mathilde that came on an average of 6328 euros. They earn 924.000,- euros and have 148 public events.

Article in Dutch here.
Oh and let´s say Katy Pauwels, the lady who presents Royalty, gets a pay check of 100.000€ per year by VTM (just an estimate of course). Divided by her let´s say 45 appearances on TV, she earns more than 2.200€ per day and Royalty is a magazine of 20 minutes, so her 45 workdays are pretty short. And if we now start calculating the income of top soccer players based only on their number of official soccer matches … cough, cough.
With all due respect for VTM, this calculation is nothing else than a waste of time. I´m all for implementing more transparency and it´s indeed rather questionable if Astrid, nr. 6 in line of throne, and Laurent, nr. 12 in line of throne, should be founded by the taxpayer. BTW introducing dotations for Astrid and Laurent was justified by the legislative with the fact that the Belgian citizens would not appreciate it if members of the royal family would engage in commercial or political activities. Their dotations are more a compensation for those limits coming with their position rather than a payment for activities. Times changed obviously and now their dotations are a topic of discussion. Nothing wrong with that, but this silly little calculation is adding nothing to the discussion and is just a populist attempt to stir up things again. HLN of course jumps into this discussion, shortens the Royalty stuff to an even more polemic piece of journalism, et voila, here we go again.

Royalty was fair enough to mention though that Philippe and Mathilde carry out far more engagements than those 146 listed in the official agenda and thus earn much less then the mentioned 6.300€ per day - even the ever so critical Jan Van Den Berghe had a very positive remark on Philippe. Of course they did not mention that especially Philippe and Mathilde´s income isn´t theirs alone but also has to cover their huge expenses (like office staff etc.).
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2008, 04:48 PM
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And while the nation celebrates the King and the Dynasty, there is a new controversy about the Royal dotations as well. The dotation for the Royal Family will be raised with another 6 % next year, which results in a total of 14 milion Euro. Many politicians are outraged that in times of economic hardship the financials of the royals are raised like that. As a reference: the wages of the average Belgian are raised with a mere 3 to 4%. See here for clip and article in Dutch.

Most politicians agree that the dotations are problematic, and that it would be a nice gesture if the RF would refund the extra money. But the Prime Minister has explained that the Government only executes the law as it was voted in Parliament.
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  #24  
Old 11-19-2008, 04:17 PM
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Update on the dotation front: the dotation for the members of the BRF will not be raised with 6 % , following the consumption price index as it always had, but it will be raised like the wages of the working people, with some 3%, following, from now on, the "health index". This has been agreed by the Government, the Palace and the Senate. (See here for article in Dutch). Apparently, the King himself didn't like his raise. Some sources say that the King wants a change in the dotation system himself, because he knows the negative publicity is menacing the image of the royal family.

However, the president of the Senate commission which is supposed to work out some kind of solution for the dotation "problem", Armand De Decker, pointed out that Queen Fabiola, King Albert, Princes Philippe & Laurent and Princess Astrid will always receive a dotation. The system will only be changed for the children of the next King. (See here)
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2009, 06:59 PM
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http://www.theroyalforums.com/3017-p...%80%A6for-now/
Given this blog entry, I wonder whether Prince Laurent and Princess Astrid can
earn a living on their own. Do they sit on the board of some company? What does Archduke Lorenz do besides making appearance alongside Princess Astrid?
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  #26  
Old 03-10-2009, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
http://www.theroyalforums.com/3017-p...%80%A6for-now/
Given this blog entry, I wonder whether Prince Laurent and Princess Astrid can
earn a living on their own. Do they sit on the board of some company? What does Archduke Lorenz do besides making appearance alongside Princess Astrid?
I have always thought that he worked in the banking sector of business -
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  #27  
Old 03-10-2009, 10:00 PM
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Thanks for the information! According Wikipedia, Archduke Lorenz had a successful in the banking sector and "is currently a director of UCB, a global pharmaceutical manufacture". This means that the loss of the state dotations may not hit Princess Astrid's family hard.
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  #28  
Old 07-02-2009, 02:52 PM
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The Parliamentary commission which has been studying the system of the dotations has come to a compromise. In the future, only the reigning monarch, the presumed heir to the throne and the surviving spouse of a deceased monarch will receive dotations.
This means that when Philippe succeeds his father, only his eldest daughter Elisabeth - and her spouse whenever she marries - will receive a dotation from the Belgian government. The dotation may not be combined with commercial or other paying functions.

Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent, however, need not fear. They will continue to receive a dotation, despite their place in the succassion. This has been decided because the comission decided it would be rather unfair to just take it away from them, after they have received a dotation for so long. They are also not allowed to combine the dotation with commercial or other paying fuctions.

Article here (dutch)
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  #29  
Old 07-02-2009, 03:23 PM
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LadyLeana,
Concerning also the dotations I heard on TV that in the future , the expenses has to be published each year. Do you agree ?
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  #30  
Old 07-02-2009, 03:30 PM
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Yes, that's true, they also said that.

On the one hand, I think it's a good idea to make the costs of the Royal family transparent. After all, it happens in other countries as well, and the taxpayers and government have every right to know where the money goes.
On the other hand, once the dotation is given to the Princes, it is their money to spend as they like. And such "transparency" might lead to nitpicking, and witch hunts by anti-royalist parties. If they are going to have to account for every single cent, it could become ugly... Discussions type "Why did they have to give such an expesive gift to that head of state durting that state visit" and "why do they have to buy so many xxxx or yyyyy"... I'm not sure anyone is interested in that, but no doubt it will be turned around into something negative.

I guess we'll just have to see how this turns out.

I do like the solution for the dotation and the limit they put on it. Imagine the Belgian tax payer having to cough up the money to sustain all of the King's grandchildren...
Mostly I'm just happy for Laurent and Astrid, that their dotation isn't just taken away from them.
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  #31  
Old 07-02-2009, 03:35 PM
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That's not really fair. Basically they take with one hand and give with another. If Elsabeth chose to go to school and take a paid profession, she would not receive any dotation since she would be paid by her job. I don't think that they should have the right to do that. She would probably continue to represent her country as crown princess until she became queen, but what if she wanted a job other than that? They are basically telling her that she can't...
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:39 PM
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I agree with publish the expenses, it's right if they're paid with taxes; but I don't agree with reducing the number of Princes to whom give the dotation.
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  #33  
Old 07-02-2009, 05:20 PM
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It is rather unfortunate that the Belgian government creates an ambiguous situation regarding dotations.
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  #34  
Old 07-06-2009, 04:42 PM
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Apparently, according to a research, 1 out of 3 Belgians thinks all funding of the Royal family must be abolished. For them, the new rules are not strict enough. They wouldn't mind to see the Royal family to be stripped of all their dotations, even the King and Queen.

Reason for this, according to the research, is that more and more Flemish people are Flemish-oriented, and would rather see Belgium split. They see the royal family as a big obstacle for the split. In times of economic hardship, the question also arises where the money goes. The coverage of royal activities is not always what it should be in Belgium, and people do not know what exactly they do or mean for the country.

See here for an article (in Dutch)

Of course most of them don't stop to think a President and Vice-President cost a lot of money as well - possibly even more than the royal family costs the Belgian tax payer right now. They also don't stop to think about the high regard a royal family still enjoys abroad, and the many doors economic missions etc lead by a member of the royal family might open.

Some people are just so narrow-minded...
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:10 PM
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What are the Belgian Royal Family considered? Are they seen as not being Flemish? Are they seen as outsiders?

It is interesting to hear about how the people themselves regard the royal family. I am an outsider, so of course my opinion isn't valid. I do come from a country without a monarchy, and I must say that financing a president and numerous other politicians is incredibly expensive. Elections are also expensive, and politicians don't bring in tourism revenue nor do they foster a sense of cultural pride (usually it is the opposite). Have the BRF released a statement regarding this research?
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyLeana View Post
Apparently, according to a research, 1 out of 3 Belgians thinks all funding of the Royal family must be abolished. For them, the new rules are not strict enough. They wouldn't mind to see the Royal family to be stripped of all their dotations, even the King and Queen.

Reason for this, according to the research, is that more and more Flemish people are Flemish-oriented, and would rather see Belgium split. They see the royal family as a big obstacle for the split. In times of economic hardship, the question also arises where the money goes. The coverage of royal activities is not always what it should be in Belgium, and people do not know what exactly they do or mean for the country.

See here for an article (in Dutch)

Of course most of them don't stop to think a President and Vice-President cost a lot of money as well - possibly even more than the royal family costs the Belgian tax payer right now. They also don't stop to think about the high regard a royal family still enjoys abroad, and the many doors economic missions etc lead by a member of the royal family might open.

Some people are just so narrow-minded...
Indeed, a lot of angry, bored people around as everywhere I suppose.
And they don't care to use their brain and think that a republic costs more money, no instead they are just jealous of anybody who earns more money, who is more succesful, who has a bigger car etc and they ang, nag, nag, nag and nag.

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What are the Belgian Royal Family considered? Are they seen as not being Flemish? Are they seen as outsiders?
Not as outsiders but definately not as Flemish either.
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:56 PM
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So are they seen as being more French than Belgian? I am curious as to why the public doesn't feel they are "of the people". Is this due to a language issue, or have laws been passed that favor the French-speaking Belgians more than the Flemish Belgians?
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:59 PM
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But I'm sure that when a Belgian Prince or King would behave and speak as a "true" Flemish, the French-speaking belgians would soon begin to protest in the same way Flemishes are doing now and since long time...
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:08 PM
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LadyLeana, (wonderful avatar) , you are right some people are just narrow minded.
When The King of the Queen or other members of RF are visiting the flemish part of Belgium they don't need special bodyguards , but are respectfully and warmly welcomed.
The whole country regret that the minor royals do not have a payed job.; times are difficult for everybody nowadays!
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:02 AM
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So are they seen as being more French than Belgian? I am curious as to why the public doesn't feel they are "of the people". Is this due to a language issue, or have laws been passed that favor the French-speaking Belgians more than the Flemish Belgians?
I certainly think many Flemish people feel like that, but the language politics is very complex, and also not really a subject matter here. When people have to give and take in a compromise situation, sometimes they only focus on what the other is taking, and not what they are getting in return. Unfortunately this has been the tendency amongst the media and political parties the last few years.

I don't think it's anything against the royal family as persons, more against what they represent - Belgium. On top of that, we have a Queen who doesn't speak Dutch very well, and our Princes and Princesses are not that much better. Not when you compare Maxima to Mathilde, for instance.

But maria-olivia is also right: whenever the royal family is on a visit somewhere in Flanders, they are welcomed very warmly. Don't forget, if 1 out of 3 Belgians is against the Royal family (because that's basically what it's about, not really the money), this means 2 out of 3 are still in favour.

Also, I have no idea how representative the study is, really. You only read about the generalizations, not the absolute figures. Besides, I wonder if anyone thought of saying this, but the current cost of the dotations for the royal family comes down to about 1 EUR per Belgian (not taxpayer, that would probably go up to 1,5 or 2 EUR) per year. How is this expensive, exactly?
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