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  #61  
Old 09-08-2018, 01:50 PM
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No. It would be the decent and honorable thing to do.

We are not talking about the memorial for some prime minister or other Government official. We are discussing a much loved and respected family member who died an untimely death and whose memory is still honored in much of Europe.

Not to forget the fact that but for a cruel twist of fate, Nature and the incomprehensible will of God...the inability of your brother and his wife to produce a living Heir...you would never be a King...former or otherwise, entitled to a lavish government funded retirement in the first place.
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  #62  
Old 09-08-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
This Requiem is to honor the memory of Baudouin, the elder brother that ALWAYS supported Albert even during the years of Albert's disgraceful estrangement from his wife and children when Albert was preferring life with his mistress. Baudouin reportedly even strong armed Paola into remaining in the marriage and took on the role of parenting (along with Fabiola ) the couples unhappy children.

Albert always publically revered the memory of his brother and in speeches on National Day called him an inspiration, both in life and death.

All that changed when Philippe became king and the Government apparently reneged on the amount of money that Albert would be premitted to enjoy in retirement.

He chooses to exact revenge by blowing off a family and national event meant to honor the memory of King Baudouin and his untimely death at only age 62 years of age...an action by the way that Baudouin would NEVER have taken if the situation had been reversed.

I agree with posters who deem Albert's behavior petty and selfish.

It also points out the stark and unflattering contrast between himself and his late older brother.

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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
The absence of Albert/Paola from most family events speaks volumes when was the last time we saw Elisabeth/Gabriel /Emmanuel/Eleonore with their grandparents?

They should put aside his allowance feud and show a united Royal Family front in public for the good of the Crown.

No wonder the King and his sister have spoken so highly of their late uncle King Baudouin.
100% with you there but I don't expect any better from Albert and Paola. They have always been selfish.

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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I did say "more or less private". Fact is, they are both very old and are not the royal couple in charge anymore.
I think it would be ridiculous to expect someone to attend a religious service even if he/ she does not want to attend, no matter for what reason, because he/ she receives a salary/ apanage, tax payers money or whatever you call it! Wouldn´t that be a highly hypocritical thing to do?!
They didn't interrumpt their holidays (either) to visit their youngest son at the ICU, when even Astrid came back from Saudi Arabia and then went to France to pick up Pere Guy Gilbert so he could be with Laurent and his family, Philippe also took time off his schedule to visit his brother daily.

It's not as if France or Italy are 36 hours away and they couldn't make the trip

Seems like the issue is that they simply don't care much about family and it's even more obvious when their closest child (Astrid) speaks of Baudouin as if he was her father.
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  #63  
Old 09-08-2018, 01:57 PM
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Exactly, they want the perks not the responsibilities. Whilst it would still be sad if they didn't want to turn up to remember a member of their family, the fact is the former King still receives considerable income and benefits from the state. Not turning up at so many events just keep destabilising the monarchy and creating chatter and talk about the family rather than the crown. They should attend, firstly because they want to but of not that then they should turn up because they are being paid.



I guess you could see the income King Albert receives from the state as a pension. In that sense, it comes with no attached work obligation.



As I see it, King Albert is now retired and, therefore, he is not obliged to attend any official event. My problem with him not attending is actually that it was a memorial for his late brother, whom he grew up with and who supported him for most of his adult life before Albert became king himself. I can't imagine that Albert's relationship with his brother was so bad that he would choose sailing on the Italian coast over taking a day to remember the 25th anniversary of his passing.



Or maybe, as some posters hinted, Albert's issue is not really with his brother, but with his son.
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  #64  
Old 09-08-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I did say "more or less private". Fact is, they are both very old and are not the royal couple in charge anymore.
I think it would be ridiculous to expect someone to attend a religious service even if he/ she does not want to attend, no matter for what reason, because he/ she receives a salary/ apanage, tax payers money or whatever you call it! Wouldn´t that be a highly hypocritical thing to do?!

But it's a difference when you don't attend because you are on your holiday in which you don't want to interrupt or if one doesn't attend because of health reasons.
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  #65  
Old 09-08-2018, 02:08 PM
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Well, a large number of family member did turn up.
A nice remembrance for uncle Baudouin.
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  #66  
Old 09-08-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
This Requiem is to honor the memory of Baudouin, the elder brother [....] :
That is not correct. A requiem is not for honouring a memory. On the contrary. It is meant to pray that the Lord grants eternal rest to a deceased and spare fierce judgement and wrath. In the traditional Catholic teaching it shortens the time the sinful deceased has to dwell in Purgatory. Well... maybe Albert thinks Baudouin was a saint and a Requiem is utterly useless since his late brother surely already must be in Heaven indeed, ergo: no need to disturb Our Lord with begging prayers. In that sense Albert is maybe more "honouring" his late brother than the rest of the family, apparently not convinced that the King has been blessed with the Lord's grace?
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  #67  
Old 09-08-2018, 02:27 PM
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Thank you to those who shared photos of the commemorations. It did feel strange not to see Elisabeth with her siblings as she is starting a new chapter of her education in Wales.
I was also surprised to see the absence of Albert and Paola, though as Osipi said I'm sure they had their own reasons for not attending or perhaps wanted to remember Baudouin in private. I don't normally like to speculate about these kind of things but perhaps either one of them also had some health problems which prevented them from attending the service? They are getting older now and the elderly are naturally more prone to illnesses and medical problems like back and joint pain. It still seems strange that they weren't there though.
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  #68  
Old 09-08-2018, 02:34 PM
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[QUOTE=Duc_et_Pair;2148240]That is not correct. A requiem is not for honouring a memory. On the contrary. It is meant to pray that the Lord grants eternal rest to a deceased and spare fierce judgement and wrath. In the traditional Catholic teaching it shortens the time the sinful deceased has to dwell in Purgatory. Well... Maybe Albert thinks Baudouin was a Saint and a Requiem is utterly useless since his late brother surely already must be in Heaven indeed, ergo: no need to disturb Our Lord with begging prayers.[/QUOTE

Your observation about the use of the word "Requiem" is entirely correct. I should have used Memorial Mass instead.

I will accept your other remarks as being intended in the spirit of your habitual irreverence and sarcasm.
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  #69  
Old 09-08-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Well, I´m sure if neither Gabriel, Emmanuel nor Eleonore would have attended, some people would be upset, too, as we seem to live in times and a society everybody seems to feel entitled to do so - favourably about things who are none of our business...
You might be right about that. The main reason being that they are the children of the current king. Albert was the former king and because of that position a 'must' for this particular occasion.

Nobody complained about Guillaume and Sibilla not bringing their children - while they are in exactly the same family relationship: he was their greatuncle (i.e., the brother of their grandparent); although in practice Baudouin was a second father to Filip and Astrid (not so sure about Laurent) and that position wasn't needed for Josephine-Charlotte and Jean's children).
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  #70  
Old 09-08-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Well, I´m sure if neither Gabriel, Emmanuel nor Eleonore would have attended, some people would be upset, too, as we seem to live in times and a society everybody seems to feel entitled to do so - favourably about things who are none of our business...

But, anyway, I appreciate Albert and Paola prioritizing their holidays since this is something obviously important for them they do for themselves, instead of satisfying the expectations of public opinion!
Who are we to judge what they should do?!

For me there was never a hint that Albert didn´t care about his elder brother. And his absence today is no proof for that.
It seems to me that it is a pretty strong hint that he didn't care about his brother. He has the whole year off to enjoy himself.. he could not spare a couple of days to remember his brother? If he din't want to come back to Beligium, he could have gone to a memorial mass in Italy In his honour...
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  #71  
Old 09-08-2018, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
100% with you there but I don't expect any better from Albert and Paola. They have always been selfish.



They didn't interrumpt their holidays (either) to visit their youngest son at the ICU, when even Astrid came back from Saudi Arabia and then went to France to pick up Pere Guy Gilbert so he could be with Laurent and his family, Philippe also took time off his schedule to visit his brother daily.

It's.
I don't know much about them but it seems like they were too busy having a bad marriage, at times to be much interested in their children. I have heard that they have at times "forgotten" Pr Laurent..and spoken as if they only had 2 children.. and that when he was ill, they ddn't go ot see ihim in Hospital. And that's even worse than not attending a memorial mass for Baudoin..
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  #72  
Old 09-08-2018, 03:58 PM
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I think it takes a certain type of person not to attend a memorial for your own brother IMO, especially when you have no other commitments and plenty of money and resources to do so. Yes they are retired, but this is not just a formal state event but a personal event for a family who have lost one of their own.
Every other "retired" Sovereign/Royal take the time to attend family events even when they drop the official ones - Juan Carlos & Sofia of Spain, The Duke of Edinburgh, Grand Duke Jean, Princess Beatrix.
The fact is Albert & Paola gave up on the throne and gave up on their family.
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  #73  
Old 09-08-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't know much about them but it seems like they were too busy having a bad marriage, at times to be much interested in their children. I have heard that they have at times "forgotten" Pr Laurent..and spoken as if they only had 2 children.. and that when he was ill, they ddn't go ot see ihim in Hospital. And that's even worse than not attending a memorial mass for Baudoin..
They have only cared about each other (and at times only about himself or herself). Family is an afterthought to them.

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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I think it takes a certain type of person not to attend a memorial for your own brother IMO, especially when you have no other commitments and plenty of money and resources to do so. Yes they are retired, but this is not just a formal state event but a personal event for a family who have lost one of their own.
Every other "retired" Sovereign/Royal take the time to attend family events even when they drop the official ones - Juan Carlos & Sofia of Spain, The Duke of Edinburgh, Grand Duke Jean, Princess Beatrix.
The fact is Albert & Paola gave up on the throne and gave up on their family.
THIS.
They can now stop pretending that they actually care much.
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  #74  
Old 09-08-2018, 04:45 PM
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Do they care about each other at least?
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  #75  
Old 09-08-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
Do they care about each other at least?
Oh yes. They have re-found love and their attachment cq devotion to each other is visible.
For the defence of King Albert: when Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands abdicated, she regarded herself as constitutionally dead. She took this serious for the 14 years she lived as Princess Wilhelmina. Only for the massive floodings of 1953, the reception of refugees from the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the Banquet for the 18th birthday of Princess Beatrix in the same year the old Queen left her self chosen hiding from the public eye. Even the solemn reburial of Stadtholder Prince Willem V from his grave in Braunschweig to his new grave in Delft did not make the old lady leaving her seclusion.

Albert probably has the same idea. "I have abdicated. I stay out of the public. I will remember my brother in my own privacy" . At the abdiction in 2014 he was already older than Wilhelmina ever became (and she lived 14 years as abdicated Queen between 1948 and 1962). And in all these years also Wilhelmina had a palace, and staff, etc.
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  #76  
Old 09-08-2018, 06:39 PM
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The notion that King Albert II did not care about his brother is a rather senseless one. All biographies, articles, documentaries etc. about him documented quite clearly that he had the deepest respect for his brother, before and after Baudouin's death. He also visited Queen Fabiola regularly after she was widowed, though these visits were usually without Queen Paola. The relationship between the borthers was never disturbed, Baudouin mainly blamed Paola for the marital problems.

The absence of Albert and Paola can have many reasons, but an intentional snub to his late brother is rather unlikely. Poisoned family dynamics and perhaps resentment towards the government seems to be a more logical explanations.

Princess Astrid is the sibling who has the best relationship with her parents. I doubt very much that her words were meant to diminish them. I also doubt that Laurent would have described the role of his uncle and aunt in a simular way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri
when was the last time we saw Elisabeth/Gabriel /Emmanuel/Eleonore with their grandparents?
At Paola's 80th birthday one year ago. The family dynamics were rather painful to watch as the family of King Philippe seemed to be completely isolated from the families of Astrid and Laurent. Both the adults as the children seemed not to have exchanged a word with each other. The tension between the family was painful to see, especially when Laurent arrived late & did not exchange a word with his parents or siblings.

How often Albert & Paola meet in private with Philippe and his family is anybody's guess. I suspect it will not be very often.

Edit: I just saw Wim Dehandschutter on BlauwBloed who claims that there is no private contact at all between Albert and Philippe.

-
It is not a secret that especially Queen Paola -who never liked her public role- longed for her husband's retirement. King Albert and Queen Paola are over 80 years old now. IMHO it is not strange that they prefer to focus on their private lives, esp. considering what a torture it seems to be for the family to be together. I doubt very much that King Philippe would like them to have a much more public role.
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  #77  
Old 09-08-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
The notion that King Albert II did not care about his brother is a rather senseless one. All biographies, articles, documentaries etc. about him documented quite clearly that he had the deepest respect for his brother, before and after Baudouin's death. He also visited Queen Fabiola regularly after she was widowed, though these visits were usually without Queen Paola. The relationship between the borthers was never disturbed, Baudouin mainly blamed Paola for the marital problems.

The absence of Albert and Paola can have many reasons, but an intentional snub to his late brother is rather unlikely. Poisoned family dynamics and perhaps resentment towards the government seems to be a more logical explanations.

Princess Astrid is the sibling who has the best relationship with her parents. I doubt very much that her words were meant to diminish them. I also doubt that Laurent would have described the role of his uncle and aunt in a simular way.



At Paola's 80th birthday one year ago. The family dynamics were rather painful to watch as the family of King Philippe seemed to be completely isolated from the families of Astrid and Laurent. Both the adults as the children seemed not to have exchanged a word with each other.

How often Albert & Paola meet in private with Philippe and his family is anybody's guess. I suspect it will not be very often.

-
It is not a secret that especially Queen Paola -who never liked her public role- longed for her husband's retirement. King Albert and Queen Paola are over 80 years old now. IMHO it is not strange that they prefer to focus on their private lives. I even doubt very much that King Philippe would like them to have a much more public role.
That's fine for regular acts, cutting ribbons, etc.
But for something as special as this?
Sorry but I don't buy it, they simply didn't want to go, can't care less.
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  #78  
Old 09-08-2018, 08:04 PM
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I wonder why Albert and Philippe would have no private contact at all as claimed. It can't be just because of a disagreement on how much money the former king gets from the Belgian state. When Albert was still on the throne, father and son didn't look that far apart. What happened after the abdication to change their relationship so dramatically ?
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  #79  
Old 09-08-2018, 10:33 PM
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It is alleged that Queen Mathilde is very close to her own family by birth and is not friendly with the in-laws. So, I don't think that such would be the cause for a schism, but, it shows that all is not that friendly within the BRF.
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  #80  
Old 09-09-2018, 03:21 AM
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I wonder why Albert and Philippe would have no private contact at all as claimed. It can't be just because of a disagreement on how much money the former king gets from the Belgian state. When Albert was still on the throne, father and son didn't look that far apart. What happened after the abdication to change their relationship so dramatically ?
The treatment of the former King (the government making promises which were not honoured and the new King seemingly not willing to spend energy into it) plus King Albert's fear what will happen to a widowed Queen Paola. Will she become a Liliane 2.0 having to sell items or depending on the generosity of supporters to help her out? After 40 years of public service as Prince de Liège & Heir and 20 years of public service as King of a turbulent monarchy as Belgium, Albert probably was and is very non-amused that a given word, and agreements around his abdication, were not honoured. Relationships can become bitter for less.
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