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  #321  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:08 AM
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She is very humble and graceful. Her outfit is very appropriate, furthermore, this is the commun dress code to meet the pope. I never saw a royal lady being inapropriately dressed while visiting the Pope.
As for the black veil, it is also part of every outfit for such a visit. When she become Grand-duchess, Stephanie will wear the white mantilla, but for the moment the black veil is mandatory.
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  #322  
Old 10-29-2013, 11:16 AM
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Fandesacs2003, you are totally right !!

By the way, it is strange that there are no photos of Guillaume and Stéphanie with Pope Francis.
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  #323  
Old 10-29-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
She is very humble and graceful. Her outfit is very appropriate, furthermore, this is the commun dress code to meet the pope. I never saw a royal lady being inapropriately dressed while visiting the Pope.
As for the black veil, it is also part of every outfit for such a visit. When she become Grand-duchess, Stephanie will wear the white mantilla, but for the moment the black veil is mandatory.

Queen Rania caused a firestorm when she was received by Benedict XVI and wore a silvery grey/white outfit with matching mantilla. It was very definitely inappropriate, as she is not a Catholic queen and was entitled to wear only black.

But she looked incredibly beautiful, just the same!
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  #324  
Old 10-29-2013, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Queen Rania caused a firestorm when she was received by Benedict XVI and wore a silvery grey/white outfit with matching mantilla. It was very definitely inappropriate, as she is not a Catholic queen and was entitled to wear only black.

But she looked incredibly beautiful, just the same!

So only the CATHOLIc Queens can wear white mantilla? Interesting. It means that Queen Margarete of Denmark, or Queen Beatrix worn BLACK mantillas? I did not know.
Apparently Quuen rania considered that she has this right, because she repeated the white veil while visiting Pope Francis.

http://i40.tinypic.com/8xvihw.jpg

The only pic with Pope Benedikt she is weraing a black mantilla.

http://i42.tinypic.com/3148fms.jpg

Stephanie and Guillaume bowed to the Popem but the Pope bowed to Queen Rania.
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  #325  
Old 10-29-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Queen Rania caused a firestorm when she was received by Benedict XVI and wore a silvery grey/white outfit with matching mantilla. It was very definitely inappropriate, as she is not a Catholic queen and was entitled to wear only black. But she looked incredibly beautiful, just the same!
picture, please?
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  #326  
Old 10-29-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by USCtrojan View Post
picture, please?
This is it I presume;
http://phys.org/news161028061.html

This is not a thread about Rania or fashion however.
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  #327  
Old 10-29-2013, 03:58 PM
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There's a different protocoll whether you visit the Pope at the Vatican or whether the Pope comes to your country.

In the latter scenario, you can basically wear what you want though it is a different story when you go to the Vatican. There used to be a strict dresscode requiring men to wear a morning coat or white tie and tails and women to wear full-length black dresses and a black veil or mantilla. The rules have watered down over the years and many men simply wear business suits when they are received for an audience by the Pope and while many women also wear knee-length skirts these days, most stick to the colour black. The only women exempt from this rule are 'most Catholic monarchs'/their wives who have the 'privilège du blanc' and thus are allowed to wear white in the presence of the Pope. The only ones having this privilege at the moment are Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg, Queen Sofia of Spain and the three Belgian queens, Mathilde, Paola and Fabiola. There is a little confusion as to Princess Charlene of Monaco as she wore white while being received for an audience last year though the Princely Family did not traditionally held the privilege. If you have the privilege, you do not have to excercise it but can also wear black. Over the years, there have also been women who have decided not to wear black when visiting the Pope but you should be prepared for a media backlash if you do so. (National costumes are alright though.) For more, have a look here.

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Originally Posted by Mariel View Post
No shawl blanc, Giraffe. What I've picked up here is that only a Catholic head of state may wear white to visit the Pope. Thus, Maria Teresa has worn white to visit the pope, and to the pope's inauguration. The shawl blanc will arrive in due course if the world persists . I saw an old picture of the grand ducal family receiving Pope Benedict in Luxembourg. Little Princess Alexandra was wearing all white. Possibly unmarried princesses of Catholic royal or ducal families may wear white. The married princesses of same must wear black to indicate mourning for their fallen state?
Pope Benedict XVI has never visited Luxembourg. Only Pope John Paul II visited the Grand Duchy in 1985 (IIRC, Grand Duchess Charlotte was still alive and it was rather shortly before her death). Princess Alexandra visited the Vatican for an audience twice. Once in 2003 when she wore white and in 2006 when she wore a black and white dress. If she visited again, I would expect her to wear black as she is a grown woman now while children are exempt from the above rules.
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  #328  
Old 10-29-2013, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
This is it I presume;
Jordan queen all a-Twitter over papal visit

This is not a thread about Rania or fashion however.
No this is not it. Not even close.

The photo is in the Rania fashion thread or "Royalty visiting the Pope" or something.

Or it can simply be Google'd.

fandesacs2003, those are not the photos I am referring to. Rania looked almost bridal.
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  #329  
Old 10-29-2013, 07:59 PM
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Please,don´t let us start a fashion war about what women wear to visit the Pope!
All the pictures I have seen are decent-looking,conservative and elegant, no reason to complain!
Neither Benedict XVI nor the current pope have a strong interest in fashion, I am sure they enjoyed talking to their visitors and did not waste a tought on the ladie´s attire.
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  #330  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:05 PM
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I see, Sidney Lux, that that picture of the entire Lux family receiving the Pope in Luxembourg was a reception for John Paul II. In it, little Alexandra was all in white.
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  #331  
Old 10-29-2013, 08:08 PM
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It's funny how the narrator calls Guillaume "William"!
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  #332  
Old 10-29-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Please,don´t let us start a fashion war about what women wear to visit the Pope!
All the pictures I have seen are decent-looking,conservative and elegant, no reason to complain!
Neither Benedict XVI nor the current pope have a strong interest in fashion, I am sure they enjoyed talking to their visitors and did not waste a tought on the ladie´s attire.
Well said!
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  #333  
Old 10-29-2013, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by IloveCP View Post
It's funny how the narrator calls Guillaume "William"!
I think it's kind of cute being that William is the English translation of his name! :-) ;-)
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  #334  
Old 10-29-2013, 11:38 PM
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I think it's kind of cute being that William is the English translation of his name! :-) ;-)
Oops, did not know that!
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  #335  
Old 10-30-2013, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
No this is not it. Not even close. The photo is in the Rania fashion thread or "Royalty visiting the Pope" or something. Or it can simply be Google'd. fandesacs2003, those are not the photos I am referring to. Rania looked almost bridal.
I've googled it, looked in the royalty visiting the pope and have yet to find the correct Rania fashion thread but there are no pictures of this meet with Benedict. Google comes up with Rania wearing black, or a long white dress no mantilla or the white top and silver skirt.

According to the Royalty visiting the Pope, Rania and Abdullah went to Castel Gandolfo several times and therefore did not have to wear black.
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  #336  
Old 10-30-2013, 05:25 AM
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Ah, another catholic outing for the Lux. family. Although their family is known to be ultra catholic and conservative, it may be nice if they didn't flaunt it all that openly, esp. after the fiasco with the GD refusing to sign a democratic law a few years ago. Only a few weeks ago the couple was received by the German glamour bisshop who overspent millions and millions on his palace. In any larger monarchy this would be a problem, that they have a cousin who bullied people at abortion clinics doesn't help either. I believe that in a few days Guillaume's brother and sister-in-law will attend a mass at a Jesuit University in Japan. I don't mind them being ultra-catholic or this particular visit to the new pope, but IMHO they should treat their religion as a more private thing. By positioning themselves so openly as ultra conservatives, they undermine the largest advantage of a monarchy: being a unifying symbol.
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  #337  
Old 10-30-2013, 06:42 AM
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Considering that the overwhelming majority of the Grand Duchy is Catholic (it is forbidden these days to ask people for their religion in a census but prior to 1979, it was 95%), I don't think it is such a big problem.

I think it is a tradition for all Catholic monarchies that the newly-wedded couples go to the Pope to receive his blessing. It is the same in Belgium, Spain and Monaco.

When Stéphanie and Guillaume visited Limburg, they met all kinds of people, among them both the mayor and the bishop. They visited Limburg as it has strong historic ties with their family and the cathedral is the most stunning building in the whole town. I've been there myself and it is very beautiful, it would have been a shame if they hadn't visited it simply because it was a Catholic building. And by the way, the big scandal about Tebartz-van Elst hadn't broken at the time they visited.

The reason why Félix and Claire will be visiting the Japanese university is that it has strong ties with Luxembourg in general. Some of the professors are from the Grand Duchy and the current archbishop also used to be a professor for German and French there. I believe they also have a campus in Luxembourg. The GDF visits foreign universities with ties to Luxembourg on a regular basis, Catholic and non-Catholic universities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariel View Post
I see, Sidney Lux, that that picture of the entire Lux family receiving the Pope in Luxembourg was a reception for John Paul II. In it, little Alexandra was all in white.
Alexandra wasn't born when Pope John Paul II visited Luxembourg, she only ever met him at the Vatican.
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  #338  
Old 10-30-2013, 01:42 PM
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Ah, another catholic outing for the Lux. family. Although their family is known to be ultra catholic and conservative, it may be nice if they didn't flaunt it all that openly, esp. after the fiasco with the GD refusing to sign a democratic law a few years ago. Only a few weeks ago the couple was received by the German glamour bisshop who overspent millions and millions on his palace. In any larger monarchy this would be a problem, that they have a cousin who bullied people at abortion clinics doesn't help either. I believe that in a few days Guillaume's brother and sister-in-law will attend a mass at a Jesuit University in Japan. I don't mind them being ultra-catholic or this particular visit to the new pope, but IMHO they should treat their religion as a more private thing. By positioning themselves so openly as ultra conservatives, they undermine the largest advantage of a monarchy: being a unifying symbol.
I have to agree with SydneyLux. They are not "flaunting" their religion by observing and practicing their beliefs openly, especially as Luxembourg is a traditionally conservative and Catholic Grand Duchy.

At the annual National Day Te Deum last June the GDF made it a point to include representatives of various religious communities at the Mass. They are profoundly Catholic, but they are hardly doctrinaire or intolerant. They have no responsibility for or control over the behavior of their Habsburg cousins activities at abortion clinics.

Secular, less religious leaders make no attempt to hide it, why must it be only devout believers who need to play it down?
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  #339  
Old 10-30-2013, 03:21 PM
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Exactly, and on their tour of Nassau, Guillaume and Stéphanie also visited a Protestant church in Weilburg and a Russian Orthodox one in Wiesbaden, so I'd say that that was pretty diversified when it comes to religions.

And as Moonmaiden said, it is not like they are forcing their views on anyone. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with the step taken by the Grand Duke a few years ago but you have to respect his decision of saying that he can't square it with his conscience to sign a law about a hotly debated topic that not only religious people protest against. He willingly gave up powers that he actually still held about this so it is not like he said that he will fight the law coming into place but made room in another way.

As already said, they can't do anything about what the wife of a nephew or cousin has done prior to her marriage. As a female line descendant of the Grand Ducal Family, the Grand Duke has absolutely no power about who he sisters' children marry and can't take any title away from them (like he could in the case of his brothers' children). Again, even though I do not agree with some of her actions, she is a free person and allowed to voice her opinions; you might have noticed that she has taken a back step since the announcement of her engagement. She still seems to be involved in the pro-life movement but in a much quieter fashion.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:48 PM
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It was not my intention to rehash the old debate on the GD not signng a law (even though I brought it up myself). In an interview Queen Beatrix stated that she saw her signature not as an agreement with the policy but as a sign that the law passed the democratic process legally. It is a pity that the GD didn't see it like this, but I can understand that a euthenesia bill can be difficult to sign for anybody, not only for religious people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23
Secular, less religious leaders make no attempt to hide it, why must it be only devout believers who need to play it down?
I do not know any openly secular monarch/ royal from a reigning royal family. Neither do I know of any non-royal head of state who is openly 'flaunting' his/her atheism, but I do not have knowledge about all heads of state in the world. I suppose that some may be closeted atheists though. As said, the main advantage to me of a monarchy is that it is a binding element above parties. To be binding the monarch should not be too much associated with one (small) part of the population. Of course the very nature of the monarchy will always be more appealing to the conservatives, but that does not mean that the monarch should not try to be as little devisive as possible. Other public figures/politicians can do as they want as they do not have to be a neutral, unifying symbol of the state. Of course there is a limit to how much neutrality we can ask: understandingly private events as baptisms, weddings and funerals should be held according to their own religious views. Still, even with these they will need to be careful: for example in not selecting clerics that are too controversial -which is not the case in Luxembourg as Archbishop Hollerich seems to be perfect for his job. I remember the outrage (from both protestants as catholics) in The Netherlands in 1998 when Queen Juliana took the hostia during the wedding of prince Maurits to the catholic Marilene van den Broek.

As said, I do not mind this particular visit of the couple to the new pope or ultra religious views in private. But that the family is so openly conservative, thus siding with a very small part of their population (I do not believe that the majority of Luxembourg citizens is ultra conservative or is a member of opus dei) is unwise and would be a major problem in most larger monarchies. I can not imagine that it will be appreciated if a daughter of my own king and queen will enroll to a university where they offer courses in exorcism for example.

The Lux. RF does not have control of their cousin by marriage indeed. But they do have control of including such a lady in public events/ attending her wedding. In this case, the Lux. key players stayed away though, perhaps due to the unexpected death of countess Alix or perhaps for other reasons. However, I think that in almost all other monarchies, association to a lady with such conduct would be heavily critisized by the press, politicians and public - and quite rightly so (and like SydneyLux I also noticed that her views are expressed in a more quiet fashion). In general I think it is preferred if extended royals of reigning families will stay out of religious/ political debates regardless if their views are religious or not. It is a minefield and it harms the position of their relatives. In comparison I find the Belgian RF -though probably equally devout- more discreet, esp. the generation of the present king.

Anyway, it was just a small observation. In general I have a lot of sympathy for this couple and I find the Hereditary Grand Duchess rather refreshing in not being overly bothered with projecting herself as the most fashionable / airbrushed royal/model as some others seem to be... which is another small annoyance of mine as I do not think that royals should strive to be like the Victoria Beckham's of the world.
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