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  #241  
Old 07-06-2013, 11:49 AM
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I don't know much about the issues of language in Belgium but wouldn't it be easier to say the new king would sign anything written in french with Philippe and anything in Dutch Filip?
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  #242  
Old 07-06-2013, 12:10 PM
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I don't know much about the issues of language in Belgium but wouldn't it be easier to say the new king would sign anything written in french with Philippe and anything in Dutch Filip?
I wouldn't know. it's a really complex matter for us foreigners. I don't know if one of the three official languages (Dutch, French and German) is used more than the other two in legislation.
and apparently (checked on wikipedia) the majority of the population Flemish-speaking (60%)...so if it's that in democracy majority always wins, Philippe should call himself Filip instead...but at the same time he comes from a francophone family, so...it's really tough
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  #243  
Old 07-06-2013, 01:19 PM
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Apparently he can not sign one law with Philippe and another one with Filip.
He chose the spelling that is on his birth certificate, but the government still has to approve it.

Probably the ones that will moan about this, are the ones that moan about everything that has to do with the monarchy.
There are a lot of Philippe's in Flanders too. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the spelling Philippe occurs more than Filip.
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  #244  
Old 07-06-2013, 01:28 PM
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Apparently he can not sign one law with Philippe and another one with Filip.
He chose the spelling that is on his birth certificate, but the government still has to approve it.

Probably the ones that will moan about this, are the ones that moan about everything that has to do with the monarchy.
There are a lot of Philippe's in Flanders too. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the spelling Philippe occurs more than Filip.
Could he not sign the documents with both names?
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  #245  
Old 07-06-2013, 01:40 PM
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Appartently not.
The same issue must have existed with Boudewijn/Baudouin. A newspaper writes that nobody knows what he signed with, only the B was readable.

The program for 21st July 2013:
9:30 Te Deum at Sint-Michiel - Sint-Goedele cathedral
11:15 Abdication ceremony at the Royal Palace in Brussels
12:45 Prince Philippe swears the oath in the Parliament and becomes the 7th King of the Belgians
13:45 King Philippe will go to the monument of the unknown soldier
16:05 the new King will inspect the troops
17:00 traditional parade for National Day at the square in front of the Palace
In the evening the new King and Queen will go to the National Day party in the Warande Park
23:00 fireworks

All these places are very close to each other.

The prime minister said that it is not tradition that foreign guests are invited. The parliament will be packed enough as it is.
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  #246  
Old 07-06-2013, 03:36 PM
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Will the children be present for the ceremonies?
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  #247  
Old 07-06-2013, 04:53 PM
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The prime minister said that it is not tradition that foreign guests are invited. The parliament will be packed enough as it is.
Does this mean that no one from other royal families will attend, like in the Netherlands?
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  #248  
Old 07-06-2013, 05:39 PM
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Does this mean that no one from other royal families will attend, like in the Netherlands?
they won't. it's a shame I think, since international guests add a bit of glamour to the whole thing. and watching the old inauguration, we can expect an extremely low key event.
Personally I would have postponed the Te Deum after the abdication and the oath, like Albert did in Monaco....in order to give some solemnity to the accession and have special prayers and blessing upon the new king.

I hope the children of Philippe and Mathilde will be all there. it's their parents special day, something they'll remember forever, they need to be there.
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  #249  
Old 07-07-2013, 06:00 AM
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I can understand why foreign royals are not invited normally given the Belgian Kings take their oath very soon after the death of the King before them but I think in this case as no one has died they could have be invited like they were in The Netherlands.
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  #250  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:02 AM
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Stefan yes.
We had it before for Roi Baudouin and Koning Boudewijn.
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  #251  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:12 AM
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The same issue must have existed with Boudewijn/Baudouin. A newspaper writes that nobody knows what he signed with, only the B was readable.
King Baudouin chose to do the best thing possible, not actually choosing one language over another, but unfortunately this can't be done by Prince Philippe, as the french and dutch spell of his name are very differnt.
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  #252  
Old 07-07-2013, 01:36 PM
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I sure am going to miss King Albert, I don't follow the Belgians that much but he just seems like such a nice guy, a man of the people. I like Phillipe and Mathilde but I think Phillipes reign will be very differently from Alberts. I think we all know Mathilde wears the pants(which is a great thing) and I can see them having the same dynamics as Bertie and Elizabeth of the UK. I'm excited to watch them rise up to the challenge of being monarch of all the Belgians and I think they surely will. I also have to say that I love the idea of abdication, I believe the Dutch have perfected the system and everyone needs to catch up. "Monarch" is a position, a job title, you sit on the throne for as long as you feel you can do your job the very best and then when its time you step down and hand it down. I also believe that whoever sits on the throne should have the title of King/Queen and after abdication go back to Prince/Princess. Its a little strange having three queens and two kings..
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  #253  
Old 07-07-2013, 01:46 PM
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Does this mean that no one from other royal families will attend, like in the Netherlands?
It's uncommon that foreign royals attends the enthronement ceremonies. I belive they only do so in Netherlands and UK. The last enthronements in Sweden, Norway and Denmark were not attended by foreign royals. Don't know about Spain.
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  #254  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:34 PM
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I sure am going to miss King Albert, I don't follow the Belgians that much but he just seems like such a nice guy, a man of the people. I like Phillipe and Mathilde but I think Phillipes reign will be very differently from Alberts. I think we all know Mathilde wears the pants(which is a great thing) and I can see them having the same dynamics as Bertie and Elizabeth of the UK. I'm excited to watch them rise up to the challenge of being monarch of all the Belgians and I think they surely will. I also have to say that I love the idea of abdication, I believe the Dutch have perfected the system and everyone needs to catch up. "Monarch" is a position, a job title, you sit on the throne for as long as you feel you can do your job the very best and then when its time you step down and hand it down. I also believe that whoever sits on the throne should have the title of King/Queen and after abdication go back to Prince/Princess. Its a little strange having three queens and two kings..
In a way I can see your point. However, I don't feel that a former monarch should in a way be demoted just because they abdicate. Once a king/queen they should retain their title. Why should they return to their former title of prince/princess?
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  #255  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:52 PM
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In a way I can see your point. However, I don't feel that a former monarch should in a way be demoted just because they abdicate. Once a king/queen they should retain their title. Why should they return to their former title of prince/princess?
Because they are no longer the king or queen. You can't have two king regnants at a time.
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  #256  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:52 PM
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Because they are no longer the king or queen. You can't have two king regnants at a time.
I completely understand that you can't have two king/queen regnant s at the same time... I just don't see the problem with them having to surrender a title already given just because they abdicate, or because their husband (in Queen Fabiola's case) passes.

That's all.
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  #257  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:16 PM
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I completely understand that you can't have two king/queen regnant s at the same time... I just don't see the problem with them having to surrender a title already given just because they abdicate, or because their husband (in Queen Fabiola's case) passes.

That's all.
Ah, but titles have meanings and go with positions. A monarch who is voluntarily abdicating is not surrendering anything, they're choosing to give up a position and so it stands that they also give up the titles associated with that position. This is different from a monarch who is forced to abdicate; he or she then surrenders their position, but history has shown that most such individuals (and often their descendants) continue to claim and use the titles associated with their former positions.

A Regnant is an individual who is ruling. If a monarch is voluntarily abdicating then he or she is no longer a monarch, or a regnant, and is no longer entitled to any titles associated with that - like king.

A Consort's titles derive from their (typically) husband's position. A Queen Consort is only such because she is the wife of the currently reigning Regnant. If she ceases to be the wife I the currently reigning Regnant - through abdication, death, or divorce - then she is no longer entitled to the courtesy titles she once held. You're mistaken, however, if you believe that the widow of a Regnant loses all titles; Fabiola is still Queen Fabiola, she is just not The Queen, because she is not married to The King. The widows of Regnants become Dowagers, and continue to hold variations of their consort titles.
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  #258  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:25 AM
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In a way I can see your point. However, I don't feel that a former monarch should in a way be demoted just because they abdicate. Once a king/queen they should retain their title. Why should they return to their former title of prince/princess?
When a CEO steps down from being head of a company, he doesn't go around calling himself a CEO anymore, because he's not. Its the same with the title King, when you decide to step down from being King then you are no longer a King and go back to what you were born, a Prince. Thats just how it makes sense in my mind.
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  #259  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:04 AM
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Also bear in mind that abdication is sometimes used to get rid of monarchs people might not want going around being called King, Queen etc. Obviously in this case Albert is going due to age and health so no one will truly begrudge him still being known as king but would, for example, people in teh UK have wanted Edward VIII to still have been called King when he abdicated.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:26 AM
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How sweet for Belgian to soon have 3 Queens, but it wont surpass Bhutan, which has 5 Queens at the moment

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No, Princess Elisabeth (born on October 25, 2001) is about 2 years older than the Princess of Orange, hence Catharina-Amalia will remain the youngest female heir to a throne (while the youngest male heir is Crown Prince Moulay Hassan of Morocco, I think)
Yes, you're right. Elisabeth is the oldest new-born future Monarch in the 21st century in Europe (not counting Liechenstein), and I'm happy she will finally be an heir apparent first-in-line to the throne.

The only children that are Heir-Apparent right now, are only 3, soon to be 4 with Elisabeth joining them.
So far is:
Crown Prince Moulay Hassan (Born. May 2003/Crown Prince by birth);
Princess Catharina-Amalia (Born. December 2003/Heiress Apparent by 2013);
Prince Lerotholi Seeiso (Born. April 2007/Heir Apparent by birth).

So the young Prince of Lesotho is the youngest heir-apparent right now, but soon as Queen Jetsun Pema has a son, Bhutan will have the youngest Heir in the world (born heir-apparent by birth)...the same applies to Monaco if Charlene has a child, but if girl, she'll be heir-presumptive.
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