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  #481  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Where are all those posters who were so down on Chris and what an awful man he seemed to be that were busy posting yesterday and the preceding days? You know the ones who said there was no love between these two and the marriage was doomed before it even began. Must be taking the day off.
Well, I never said he was an awful man and I never said the marriage was doomed. I did say that I was not inspired by them as a couple, that they didn't appeal to me personally. And I still feel that way. BUT..

Any doubts I had about his commitment to her and to their marriage have been completely erased. He is as besotted and as proud as any groom I have ever seen. If someone had told me he would be in tears at the altar while Madde remained composed I would have rolled my eyes.

I posted last night that Madeleine could do a heck of a lot worse than Chris, and I am more convinced of that than ever.
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  #482  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Mr & Mrs Westling were not on the guest list for the wedding so they must have been somewhere else in the palace waiting for the tantrum.
They were at church, but not at the ceremony as guests, and took Princess Estelle back home after the ceremony.
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  #483  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:40 PM
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Madde saying farewell to her guests I think her hair now down
http://media.shootitlive.com/F8eLTqQ...tonbladet/1431
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  #484  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
And just because its a tradition in Sweden doesn't make it right, either.

I don't care who does what, so as long as its THEIR choice. Not a choice forced upon them by their church, their government, their husband/spouse, or their family or friends. No one should be shamed because they decided to be walked down the aisle by their father/brother/whoever and no one should be shamed because they decided to walk down the aisle alone or with their spouse-to-be.

I am for people making their own decisions and not being influenced/forced by anyone or any institution around them.
I think there are two sides of this issue. And no, I'm not just talking about two different opinons.

One is the tradition. It is an old swedish tradition to walk in to the church with your husband to be, not your father. The church takes pride in this fact. And on this occasion, it's not just anyone who's getting married. I'm totally surprised that both Victoria and Madeleine chose to ignore the swedish tradition. Royalty is usually big on tradition, not just in Sweden. They are litterally part of the tradition.

The other one is the meaning of the gesture. And even if we all agreed on that one, I would still be surprised about the first part - royalty going against the church and it's tradition.
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  #485  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
Madde saying farewell to her guests I think her hair now down
http://media.shootitlive.com/F8eLTqQ...tonbladet/1431
It certainly looks like Princess Madeleine but then she must have changed dress. Although that is not uncommon to have two dresses, one for the wedding and one for the late night dancing and partying. The couple to her right is Emma and her partner (husband?).
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  #486  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
Madde saying farewell to her guests I think her hair now down
http://media.shootitlive.com/F8eLTqQ...tonbladet/1431
OMG...she changed dresses in the evening and looks like a fairy tale princess...vintage Madeleine!
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  #487  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
They were at church, but not at the ceremony as guests, and took Princess Estelle back home after the ceremony.
How do you know that?
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  #488  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Thank god we haven't hung on to every 16th century tradition.

And how are they walking out as "equals" when customarily one of them is changing her/his name to the other's?

This issue has nothing to do with equality. It is simply an old tradition that is hanging on. Women in 1874 received the right to their own income from work and in 1884 married woman received the right to manage their own property and inheritance so the tradition going back to 16th century that the man and woman are walking in to church as equals is not true.
It was first in 1920 that a married woman in Sweden had to take her husband's surname, until then the woman could keep her maiden name if she wanted to, and the law was changed again in 1963, the woman was able to keep her maiden name if she wanted.

As for the bride and groom walking into the church together, it can be seen as a sign that the bride walks there of her own choice and is not forced by her family or by the groom. The tradition goes back to medieval times, when a couple stopped at a church and was blessed after that a groom had abducted his bride-to-be (bride abductions were not uncommon during medieval times in Sweden). Vigsel - Wikipedia
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  #489  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Yikes! His one thought was about giving her away when she gets married? That's his principal ambition for his relationship with his daughter? Scary! What about, Oh, I'll get to help her achieve her potential in whatever fields of endeavour she chooses to pursue and help her find happiness in her life?
He wasn't thinking about giving her away: really, who ever truly gives away their child, whether s/he is six or sixty?

He was thinking about sharing a special moment in her life! About the one moment when the bond between them would be evident to all.
That's how I felt at my own wedding; it was beautiful, and I'll always remember that special instant with my father.
That's why people do it, and it has nothing to do with exchanging property! Jmo.
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  #490  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I think there are two sides of this issue. And no, I'm not just talking about two different opinons.

One is the tradition. It is an old swedish tradition to walk in to the church with your husband to be, not your father. The church takes pride in this fact. And on this occasion, it's not just anyone who's getting married. I'm totally surprised that both Victoria and Madeleine chose to ignore the swedish tradition. Royalty is usually big on tradition, not just in Sweden. They are litterally part of the tradition.

The other one is the meaning of the gesture. And even if we all agreed on that one, I would still be surprised about the first part - royalty going against the church and it's tradition.
It's fine that Sweden has that tradition, but its wrong that in other churches the tradition is different?

If you want to do something because of tradition, that is YOUR choice. You want to be mad/upset/disappointed/frustrated/whatever because someone else went against tradition, that's fine too, but don't be surprised that people don't want to follow that tradition or other traditions.

Thanksgiving is a tradition in America, but my family doesn't celebrate it as others do because my mother is half-Native American. But we don't look down on/shame others for celebrating it in the "traditional" way. We recognize that people have their right to celebrate traditions as they see fit.

Now, if Madeleine or Vickan was being walked down the aisle by their father because HE wanted it and because he or they saw themselves as being owned by their father, that's a problem. But to do it because they want to share a moment with their father? I don't see that as problematic. If you do, that's your opinion.
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  #491  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
It was first in 1920 that a married woman in Sweden had to take her husband's surname, until then the woman could keep her maiden name if she wanted to, and the law was changed again in 1963, the woman was able to keep her maiden name if she wanted.
And on a sidenote to those who aren't swedish: These days couple who get married have several choices. They can keep their old names. They can take his or hers name. They can also take an old family name, or make up a new name themselves. So you don't just assume that the couple are going to take the husbands last name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
It's fine that Sweden has that tradition, but its wrong that in other churches the tradition is different?

If you want to do something because of tradition, that is YOUR choice. You want to be mad/upset/disappointed/frustrated/whatever because someone else went against tradition, that's fine too, but don't be surprised that people don't want to follow that tradition or other traditions.

Thanksgiving is a tradition in America, but my family doesn't celebrate it as others do because my mother is half-Native American. But we don't look down on/shame others for celebrating it in the "traditional" way. We recognize that people have their right to celebrate traditions as they see fit.

Now, if Madeleine or Vickan was being walked down the aisle by their father because HE wanted it and because he or they saw themselves as being owned by their father, that's a problem. But to do it because they want to share a moment with their father? I don't see that as problematic. If you do, that's your opinion.
If there was a royal family in the US, I would expect the bride to be given away by her father. But this is a swedish royal family. Therefore I Iand most other people here) expected the brides to walk down the aisle with their husbands-to-be.

Most cultures/religions/nations have good and bad things that come with them. The swedish tradition to walk down the isle together with your husband is one that I'm very proud of, in every way. Someone else might be glad to see that the swedish royalty are taking on foreign traditions. They are entitled to their opinion. So are you. And I.
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  #492  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:03 PM
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A tweet and picture from Jesper Parnevik from inside and omg!
http://i.imgur.com/sqBXNqH.png
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  #493  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
And just because its a tradition in Sweden doesn't make it right, either.

I don't care who does what, so as long as its THEIR choice. Not a choice forced upon them by their church, their government, their husband/spouse, or their family or friends. No one should be shamed because they decided to be walked down the aisle by their father/brother/whoever and no one should be shamed because they decided to walk down the aisle alone or with their spouse-to-be.

I am for people making their own decisions and not being influenced/forced by anyone or any institution around them.
Well, I'm not sure Madeleine got the wedding she really wanted, as there have been many reports that she would have preffered a truly private wedding without any media present in the church. A wedding without media coverage would have been ok for me if it had been Madeleine's choice, would that have been ok with you, or do you think that the wedding of a royal princess should be a public occation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
Now, if Madeleine or Vickan was being walked down the aisle by their father because HE wanted it and because he or they saw themselves as being owned by their father, that's a problem. But to do it because they want to share a moment with their father? I don't see that as problematic. If you do, that's your opinion.
Perhaps we have a different view on the role of a head of state and their family, to me the royal family should follow and support the traditions of the country where they live. If they don't believe that the traditions of their country are something to value, why should the public accept them as their sovereign? To me both Victoria and Madeleine have shown that they prefer a non-Swedish wedding tradition. The choices they made for their weddings will unfortunately inspire future brides here in Sweden and push yet another Swedish tradition out of fashion. Had Madeleine chosen a private wedding ceremony there woundn't have been this discussion.
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  #494  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
If there was a royal family in the US, I would expect the bride to be given away by her father. But this is a swedish royal family. Therefore I Iand most other people here) expected the brides to walk down the aisle with their husbands-to-be.

Most cultures/religions/nations have good and bad things that come with them. The swedish tradition to walk down the isle together with your husband is one that I'm very proud of, in every way. Someone else might be glad to see that the swedish royalty are taking on foreign traditions. They are entitled to their opinion. So are you. And I.
It really wouldn't work in the US because there are a lot of different cultures here with a lot of different traditions. The traditions of a US Royal Family would depend upon a lot of things and it's not comparable.

I guess I just can't see why you would expect Madeleine & Vickan to follow the traditions because I don't come from a family or a country like that. Yes, America has a lot of traditions, but so do our communities and our own families because we are more of a melting pot than Sweden, in some ways. My family has many different traditions because we're made up of different cultures and our traditions vary greatly from the neighbors around us and even from others in our family.

So again, for me, it comes back to Madeleine & Vickan making their own choices and I don't see why Sweden or the Church has to take it as some personal affront that they chose to do something different than other people.
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  #495  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:10 PM
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Full view of her second dress
http://media.shootitlive.com/VzCpAqn...tonbladet/1431
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  #496  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:10 PM
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^ Thanks for the link. I actually like her reception dress much better than her wedding dress.

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A tweet and picture from Jesper Parnevik from inside and omg!
http://i.imgur.com/sqBXNqH.png
Looks like they're having a great time.
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  #497  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
Holy cow....she looks gorgeous!! This is what I expected her to look like last night! Now I know why she was holding back. Who designed her dress?

She looks like a classic fairy princess.
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  #498  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:14 PM
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My favorite guest from the wedding is a tie: Theodora & Marie. I thought they were both stunning and I loved seeing Theodora in Alexia's tiara. I had hoped Marie might wear her other tiara, but regardless, she looked amazing.

I've seen a lot of complaints about Madeleine's dress, but I thought she looked amazing. It was so heartwarming to see the smiles between Madeleine & Chris (I started to cry when I saw him crying as she walked down the aisle!)

Now that I've seen her reception dress I can say: it looks too much like a prom dress and it looks a lot like the dress she wore to Victoria's pre-wedding dinner. Much too prom for me. But she looks so happy!
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  #499  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
A tweet and picture from Jesper Parnevik from inside and omg!
http://i.imgur.com/sqBXNqH.png
Thanks ghost_night554!

I was not expecting that!
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  #500  
Old 06-08-2013, 09:24 PM
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Sorry if this has been asked, but is there any info about Chris' sisters tiaras? (I would assume no since they're not very well known.) they have some lovely tiaras, imo.

I had been hoping that Victoria would wear Lilian's wreath tiara and I was so happy to see it! I love that both Victoria & Madeleine wore jewelry that was Lilians. It was such a sweet way to pay homage to her even though she couldn't be with them.

A shame that no one from Belgium, the Netherlands, or Spain came. I would have loved to have seen Mathilde & Philippe, or even just Claire & Laurent. Laurentien & Constantijn would have been a welcome sight as well (she certainly always wears something interesting). And seeing Letizia & Felipe with foreign royals would have been very nice too (though I'm sure attending such a glitzy occassion while the economy remains on the down is not a good idea for them. I heard about them being booed not too long ago. sad to say I worry the monarchy won't last in Spain!)
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