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  #461  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by soraya View Post
Thanks Xenobia for the info but this is a high profile wedding .
The guests were high profile too,there were lot of cameras.As I said what if Estelle had a tantrum?
I highly doubt that child of Estelle's age would have been allowed in Victoria's wedding.
In my church,too young children don't come to the sunday service.It's their parents who prefer to put them in the care of volunteer baby sitters inside the church.In this way,they don't disturb their parents or other attendees.
If she had a tantrum, one of her parents (probably Daniel in this case) would simply have walked out of the church with her. That's what usually happens if a kid has a tantrum during a wedding or any other service in church. In Sweden, it's always been encouraged to bring children to church, so people are used to it.

I also think I dare to say that Madeleine wanted her niece to be there (despite the risk of tantrums), since she's very close to her. I've seen pics of Madeleine and Estelle, and just like the rest of the family she seems to adore her. When you get married in Sweden, you want your loved ones to be there, no matter how young or old they are.

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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Well given how many people get married and divorced over and over again I suppose you could get a dress that was wash and wear. I even know one woman who had her dress and veil died black and wore it to her divorce party which her ex husband also attended.
To each his own
Quite OT, but still: When I got married, I bought a once used dress on Blocket (our Craigslist). It was stunning, and not too expensive. My husbands frockcoat (is that an english word) was actually more expensive...

Two of my friends kept their wedding dresses and had them remodeled into baptism gowns (again, correct word...) when their first child was born. A nice use of the dress, IMO.
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  #462  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mgrant
I think couples should do what THEY want to do, not what everyone else wants them to do or thinks what they should do. It would not be THEIR wedding if they did. Madeleine and Chris did as they chose to do. I was just as surprised to see her father walking her down the aisle as anyone else as I had read over and over she was sticking with tradition. If my daddy was still alive, I'd have him walk me down the aisle. That would be MY CHOICE
AMEN...I could not possibly agree more!!

nascarly..Sofia's dress was actually a very pale blue/violet...it wasn't white.
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  #463  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
As for Sofia, I didn't like her dress at all. I didn't look like a dress you would wear to a wedding. Why would you wear a solid white dress to a wedding? Maybe a fashion show but not a royal wedding. It got you're attention, that I will say. But to each his own, as I will say.

I wish Princess Madeleine & Chris the best.
All the descriptions I have read said Sofias dress was lilac/mauve. Never saw it referred to as white.
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  #464  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't think a father walking his daughter down the aisle shows gender inequality; it is a touching father-daughter moment.

( A friend recently learned she was expecting a little girl; do you know what her husband exclaimed when he saw the picture?

Oh, I'll get to walk her down the aisle!
He was all excited and that was the first thing he thought of, and his child wasn't even born yet.)
Yikes! His one thought was about giving her away when she gets married? That's his principal ambition for his relationship with his daughter? Scary! What about, Oh, I'll get to help her achieve her potential in whatever fields of endeavour she chooses to pursue and help her find happiness in her life?

The tradition of father giving away his daughter stems from the times when females had few rights and little control over their lives. They had little value other than producing children and being bargaining tools to secure good deals for the family in return for trading them away to other men in marriage. When the minister said, "Who gives this woman to be married?", it was meant literally. The man owned the females in his household and he decided who they would marry, and when they married he gave the daughters away to the daughter's new owner: her husband.

It's one thing to choose to gloss over the reasons behind these traditions and sugar-coat them and treat them as touching father and daughter moments, but it is important to be aware of the reason behind the custom.
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  #465  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I totally agree with you, but I am also entitled to hold my own views, and express them.
I am down with that!
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  #466  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I think that the Swedish tradition of the couple walking into the church together is one which British and Australian and American couples should adopt, and I think it is disappointing that Swedish couples are adopting the American/British way. At least Madeleine was not escorted all the way down the aisle.

I think that adopting the Swedish tradition would be a fine way for couples to update traditional church wedding traditions to take account of modern concepts of equality. I cringe when I see people who have been living together for years having a big church wedding with white bridal dress and veil, and the woman's father giving her away.
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Originally Posted by mgrant View Post
I think couples should do what THEY want to do, not what everyone else wants them to do or thinks what they should do. It would not be THEIR wedding if they did. Madeleine and Chris did as they chose to do. I was just as surprised to see her father walking her down the aisle as anyone else as I had read over and over she was sticking with tradition. If my daddy was still alive, I'd have him walk me down the aisle. That would be MY CHOICE.

Everyone have the choice whether to follow tradition or not. It would be highly unusual for traditions to be written in stone and be treated as some law everyone has to follow. I've seen where following or not following traditions have divided families and friends. Life is too short for that.

Madeleine did not follow that particular tradition. Her father walked her up the aisle. She is no less married for it. It is what is. Let's just be happy for them both.
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I totally agree with you, but I am also entitled to hold my own views, and express them.
Roslyn, in your post Mgrant referred to, you noted British, Australian, and American couples SHOULD follow the Swedish tradition. The tone of your post read as if we should all do what you think we should and not what we want to.
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  #467  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by burnt View Post
i absolutely love stephanie's hair..her mother in law wed in this tiara.Princess Stephanie Of Luxembourg Attends The Wedding Of

she's so regal looking.
No, M-T wore the Congo Necklace Tiara when she wed.

It doesn't matter, imo, how the tradition came around. What matters is the intent behind why people do it today. My dad wants to walk me down the aisle because he sees it as sharing a moment with me. I don't want him to walk me down the aisle (because I don't actually like him, lol). But its nothing to do with him owning me or handing me over to my husband. Madeleine & Vickan are obviously very close with their father and I think this was a way of sharing a close moment with him before becoming married. To me, its fine, but I can see why some Swedes are offended. It's not the church's position to tell anyone what to do, imo (and any church that would tell me I HAVE to do this or that during my ceremony, I would walk away from so quickly). And yes, we absolutely should be able to disagree with a church on a stance. I consider myself Catholic, although I disagree with the church on a lot of things (part of the reason why I no longer go to services there). No church is perfect and being able to disagree with anyone and form your own opinions is part of being an adult, imo.

Vickan & Madeleine made their choices and no one here or in Sweden or anywhere in the world has to agree with it. Vickan & Madeleine are very independent women (especially when you look at who they both chose to marry, certainly not the men her father would prefer, imo) and they chose to share a moment with their father, as is their right as humans.

I'm not Swedish, or Danish, or Nowegian, so I can't comment on Swedes or anyone being influenced by Americans regarding brides being walked down the aisle by their father, but to blame it on one culture is wrong, imo. My family is German and it's a tradition in Germany, among some as far as I know, to have the bride walked down the aisle by her father (or a male member of her family). It's a british custom. It's an Australian Custom. I'm sure it's a custom in a lot of European countries and other countries around the world. It's very silly, imo, to blame it entirely on America. There are legit reasons to dislike America & American culture, I don't see this as being one of them.

And that's my peace on the subject.
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  #468  
Old 06-08-2013, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Yikes! His one thought was about giving her away when she gets married? That's his principal ambition for his relationship with his daughter? Scary! What about, Oh, I'll get to help her achieve her potential in whatever fields of endeavour she chooses to pursue and help her find happiness in her life?

The tradition of father giving away his daughter stems from the times when females had few rights and little control over their lives. They had little value other than producing children and being bargaining tools to secure good deals for the family in return for trading them away to other men in marriage. When the minister said, "Who gives this woman to be married?", it was meant literally. The man owned the females in his household and he decided who they would marry, and when they married he gave the daughters away to the daughter's new owner: her husband.

It's one thing to choose to gloss over the reasons behind these traditions and sugar-coat them and treat them as touching father and daughter moments, but it is important to be aware of the reason behind the custom.

Can you understand that the friend Muhler was referring to is excited to share that tender moment with his daughter?

FWIW, my father escorted me down the aisle and gave my hand to my fiancé, the priest never asked who gives this woman. Guess the Catholic church is a little more progressive than some realize.
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  #469  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Durham View Post
Can you understand that the friend Muhler was referring to is excited to share that tender moment with his daughter?
No, I'm afraid I will never be able to understand that being the first thing that came to his mind. But there are a lot of things I don't understand about the way other people think about such things, but they are, nevertheless, entitled to think them.
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  #470  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:05 PM
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Where are all those posters who were so down on Chris and what an awful man he seemed to be that were busy posting yesterday and the preceding days? You know the ones who said there was no love between these two and the marriage was doomed before it even began. Must be taking the day off.
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  #471  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Where are all those posters who were so down on Chris and what an awful man he seemed to be that were busy posting yesterday and the preceding days? You know the ones who said there was no love between these two and the marriage was doomed before it even began. Must be taking the day off.
No-one who watched the wedding could continue to doubt the love between those two.
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  #472  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
No, I'm afraid I will never be able to understand that being the first thing that came to his mind. But there are a lot of things I don't understand about the way other people think about such things, but they are, nevertheless, entitled to think them.
No, it's about being somebodys daughter, it is about being somebodys wife to be, in Sweden this is important, to walk as euquals side by side.
Even in days long ago (1500-up to persent) it was very important,
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  #473  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
If she had a tantrum, one of her parents (probably Daniel in this case) would simply have walked out of the church with her. That's what usually happens if a kid has a tantrum during a wedding or any other service in church. In Sweden, it's always been encouraged to bring children to church, so people are used to it.

I also think I dare to say that Madeleine wanted her niece to be there (despite the risk of tantrums), since she's very close to her. I've seen pics of Madeleine and Estelle, and just like the rest of the family she seems to adore her. When you get married in Sweden, you want your loved ones to be there, no matter how young or old they are.
Princess Estelle's "farmor and farfar" (Daniel's parents) were standing by in the church in case they were needed. Neither Prince Daniel or CP Victoria would have had to leave during the ceremony.
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  #474  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
I'm not Swedish, or Danish, or Nowegian, so I can't comment on Swedes or anyone being influenced by Americans regarding brides being walked down the aisle by their father, but to blame it on one culture is wrong, imo. My family is German and it's a tradition in Germany, among some as far as I know, to have the bride walked down the aisle by her father (or a male member of her family). It's a british custom. It's an Australian Custom. I'm sure it's a custom in a lot of European countries and other countries around the world. It's very silly, imo, to blame it entirely on America. There are legit reasons to dislike America & American culture, I don't see this as being one of them.

And that's my peace on the subject.
But I'm swedish I'm not saying that the very origins of the tradition of the father giving away the bride is american. I'm saying that most young brides over here consider it american, since we're so soaked in american culture (which I, btw, think has both high and low points). Wedding traditions is just one example. I can give another: Lots of swedes think that we have jury trials here. We don't. But jury trials are shown on TV all the time in american TV-series and movies. Hence, people think it's a swedish thing. It isn't.

I can also safely say that most people here actually knows quite little about the other nordic and north euopean customs. Again, I don't blame americans. I blame TV and other media.

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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
Princess Estelle's "farmor and farfar" (Daniel's parents) were standing by in the church in case they were needed. Neither Prince Daniel or CP Victoria would have had to leave during the ceremony.
Aha. I never saw them, but that makes sense.
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  #475  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:22 PM
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Aha. I never saw them, but that makes sense.
Yep. I am quite sure that the possibility that Estelle might get too fidgety or noisy would have been taken into account and provided for.
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  #476  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:24 PM
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No, it's about being somebodys daughter, it is about being somebodys wife to be, in Sweden this is important, to walk as euquals side by side.
Even in days long ago (1500-up to persent) it was very important,
Thank god we haven't hung on to every 16th century tradition.

And how are they walking out as "equals" when customarily one of them is changing her/his name to the other's?

This issue has nothing to do with equality. It is simply an old tradition that is hanging on. Women in 1874 received the right to their own income from work and in 1884 married woman received the right to manage their own property and inheritance so the tradition going back to 16th century that the man and woman are walking in to church as equals is not true.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:24 PM
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Mr & Mrs Westling were not on the guest list for the wedding so they must have been somewhere else in the palace waiting for the tantrum.
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  #478  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Yep. I am quite sure that the possibility that Estelle might get too fidgety or noisy would have been taken into account and provided for.
Agreed. Since they were standby babysitters all weekend, they were probably close to (or in) the church, even though we didn't see them on TV. And I must say that I think Estelle behaved great for being so young.
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  #479  
Old 06-08-2013, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
I'm not Swedish, or Danish, or Nowegian, so I can't comment on Swedes or anyone being influenced by Americans regarding brides being walked down the aisle by their father, but to blame it on one culture is wrong, imo. My family is German and it's a tradition in Germany, among some as far as I know, to have the bride walked down the aisle by her father (or a male member of her family). It's a british custom. It's an Australian Custom. I'm sure it's a custom in a lot of European countries and other countries around the world. It's very silly, imo, to blame it entirely on America. There are legit reasons to dislike America & American culture, I don't see this as being one of them.
The tradition of a father walking his daughter to the altar is common in many different cultures, but it have not been a tradition in Sweden until the last decades or so, probably inspired by romantic Hollywood films and televised British royal weddings. Just because it a custom in many parts of the world doen't make it right. I'm saddened that when it comes to how to create an ideal/perfect wedding in Sweden many brides seems to prefer the non-Swedish tradition of having her father walk her to the altar, instead of her future husband, to me it seems as if they feel that an foreign tradition will make their weddings more romantic than those traditions that have their roots in the Swedish culture.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
The tradition of a father walking his daughter to the altar is common in many different cultures, but it have not been a tradition in Sweden until the last decades or so, probably inspired by romantic Hollywood films and televised British royal weddings. Just because it a custom in many parts of the world doen't make it right. I'm saddened that when it comes to how to create an ideal/perfect wedding in Sweden many brides seems to prefer the non-Swedish tradition of having her father walk her to the altar, instead of her future husband, to me it seems as if they feel that an foreign tradition will make their weddings more romantic than those traditions that have their roots in the Swedish culture.
And just because its a tradition in Sweden doesn't make it right, either.

I don't care who does what, so as long as its THEIR choice. Not a choice forced upon them by their church, their government, their husband/spouse, or their family or friends. No one should be shamed because they decided to be walked down the aisle by their father/brother/whoever and no one should be shamed because they decided to walk down the aisle alone or with their spouse-to-be.

I am for people making their own decisions and not being influenced/forced by anyone or any institution around them.
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