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Old 01-28-2013, 04:41 PM
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Titles, names and the new line of succession


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Old 01-29-2013, 05:21 PM
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Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence

Has anyone answered this question? What will be the order of precedence for Dutch royal women after the abdication? Will Beatrix still precede Maxima in that order, having been a queen regnant and being, of course, a royal born? Or will Maxima, as Queen Consort, outrank Princess Beatrix?
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:33 PM
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^^^^^
Once Beatrix signs to abdication act she is constitutionally dead.....no more a Queen. She becomes once more a Princess of The Netherlands as she was born. She will not outrank either her son or her daughter in law.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:34 PM
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The Dutch RF isn't that strict on precedence etc. Technically Friso and Mabel should walk behind Constantijn, Margriet, Maurits and Benrhard jr+ spouses, but in pratice they usually followed WA & Máxima.

But Máxima as HM will have presendence over her mother-in-law, who will be an HRH.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vittoria View Post
Has anyone answered this question? What will be the order of precedence for Dutch royal women after the abdication? Will Beatrix still precede Maxima in that order, having been a queen regnant and being, of course, a royal born? Or will Maxima, as Queen Consort, outrank Princess Beatrix?
I am not an expert in Dutch Order of Precedence (if one exists) but as the Queen Consort, Maxima would certainly outrank Princess Beatrix.
It is possible that Beatrix will be the next lady in the Kingdom immediately after Queen Maxima but that wouldn't be automatic.

In theory, Beatrix should be accorded the same precedence as Princess Margriet (daughter of a Monarch other than the current one) and rank below not only Maxima, Amalia, Alexia and Ariane, but also Laurentien.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:59 PM
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I realise posters have been kind enough to explain why Maurits and Bernhard will lose their place in succession but I'm not sure I understand.

You say that you must be related by three degrees? Surely currently then with Beatrix as Queen the three degrees are her children, grandchildren and sister. Why do her nephews still have a place?

And when W-A ascends why is the three degrees not his children, brother and nieces and nephew? Why is Margriet still included?
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
I realise posters have been kind enough to explain why Maurits and Bernhard will lose their place in succession but I'm not sure I understand.

You say that you must be related by three degrees? Surely currently then with Beatrix as Queen the three degrees are her children, grandchildren and sister. Why do her nephews still have a place?

And when W-A ascends why is the three degrees not his children, brother and nieces and nephew? Why is Margriet still included?
The degrees of relation don't work quite like that.

Those currently in the succession line are the Queen's relations in three degrees:
Beatrix -> Margriet (sister through royal parent) -> Maurits and Bernhard (sister's sons)
Beatrix -> Willem-Alexander (son) -> Amalia, Alexia, Ariane (son's daughters)
Beatrix -> Constantijn (son) -> Eloise, Claus-Casimir and Eleonore (son's children)

Three degrees of relations from Willem-Alexander include only his own daughters, his brother, his brother's children and his aunt.
Willem Alexander -> Amalia, Alexia, Ariane (daughters)
Willem-Alexander -> Constantijn -> Eloise, Claus-Casimir and Eleonore (brother's children)
William-Alexander -> Queen Beatrix (royal parent) -> Princess Margriet (mother's royal sister)

Bernhard and Maurits will be excluded because they are Willem-Alexander's relations in fourth degree:
William-Alexander -> Queen Beatrix (mother) -> Princess Margriet (mother's sister) -> Prince Bernhard and Prince Maurits

In the same way, Maurits and Bernhard's children are currently not in the succession line because they are Queen Beatrix's fourth degree relations:
Beatrix -> Margriet (sister) -> Maurits (sister's sons) -> Anna, Lucas and Felicia (the children of the sisters son)
Beatrix -> Margriet (sister) -> Bernhard (sister's sons) -> Isabella, Samuel and Benjamin

Theoretically, if Amalia had a child during Queen Beatrix's reign, the child wouldn't have been in the Line of Succession as well, despite being heir apparent (to the heir apparent of the Heir Apparent)
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:19 PM
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Thank you Artemisia!
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:25 PM
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that does not sound right.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
I am not an expert in Dutch Order of Precedence (if one exists) but as the Queen Consort, Maxima would certainly outrank Princess Beatrix.
It is possible that Beatrix will be the next lady in the Kingdom immediately after Queen Maxima but that wouldn't be automatic.

In theory, Beatrix should be accorded the same precedence as Princess Margriet (daughter of a Monarch other than the current one) and rank below not only Maxima, Amalia, Alexia and Ariane,
Quote:
but also Laurentien
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:31 PM
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that does not sound right.....
You are right, it isn't. I was basing my observation on the fact that once the Queen reverts to her birth title of a Princess, she will presumably also accorded the precedence of a Sovereign's daughter. Usually, wives of Sovereign's children outrank the Sovereign's daughters; however, during Willem-Alexander's reign Laurentien will be not wife of the Sovereign's son but wife of the Sovereign's brother - something I momentarily forgot.

In practice, I think Queen Beatrix will have a precedence immediately after the Queen Consort (Maxima) and above that of the Heir Apparent (Amalia).
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
In practice, I think Queen Beatrix will have a precedence immediately after the Queen Consort (Maxima) and above that of the Heir Apparent (Amalia).
Given that the Princess of Orange is a 9 year old school girl that seems most likely.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Given that the Princess of Orange is a 9 year old school girl that seems most likely.
Do you happen to know whether the Dutch Order of Precedence is like the British one in the respect one can only be included upon coming of age? Or you are in it pretty much from birth?
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:44 AM
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Titles and names:

When Queen Beatrix abdicates, His Royal Highness the Prince of Orange will become King Willem-Alexander, and Her Royal Highness Princess Máxima of the Netherlands will become Queen Máxima. They will both be addressed as 'Your Majesty'. After abdicating, Queen Beatrix will be called Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, etc. As soon as the Prince of Orange ascends the throne, his eldest child, Her Royal Highness Princess Catharina-Amalia, will be the first in line to the throne. She will then become the Princess of Orange (under section 7 of the Membership of the Royal House Act).

The titles and names of the other members of the Royal Family will not change after Queen Beatrix's abdication. The membership of the Royal House and the line of succession will however change under the above Act.

Source: RVD
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:45 AM
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Line of succession following the abdication of Queen Beatrix

1. HRH the Princess of Orange, Princess Catharina-Amalia, 1st daughter of the King.
2. HRH Princess Alexia, 2nd daughter of the King.
3. HRH Princess Ariane, 3rd daughter of the King.
4. HRH Prince Constantijn, youngest brother of the King.
5. Countess Eloise of Orange-Nassau, eldest child of Prince Constantijn
6. Count Claus-Casimir of Orange-Nassa, middle child and only son of Prince Constantijn
7. Countess Leonore of Orange-Nassa, youngest child of Prince Constantijn
8. Princess Margriet, aunt of the King

After the abdication, the line of succession will begin with the children of His Majesty the King: Her Royal Highness the Princess of Orange, Her Royal Highness Princess Alexia, and Her Royal Highness Princess Ariane. The next in line will be His Royal Highness Prince Constantijn, his children and finally Her Royal Highness Princess Margriet.

After the abdication, the children of Her Royal Highness Princess Margriet of the Netherlands and Professor Pieter van Vollenhoven will no longer be eligible for the throne. They will also cease to be members of the Royal House.

Source: RVD
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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[ Mod. note: this post has been moved from this thread.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmins View Post
Why does Beatrix title revert to Princess upon abdicating, instead of "The Queen Mother"?
It seems disrespectful and dismissive to downgrade her.
Because Queen Mother is a title that can only belong to the widowed Queen Consort (Queen Dowager) who is also the mother of the current Monarch.
Queen Beatrix isn't a Queen Dowager and was never a Queen Consort - she is a Queen Regnant. As such, she simply cannot hold the title.

As for the title of a Princess, that is according to the Act of Membership in the Royal House: an abdicated Monarch reverts to his/her birth title of a Prince/Princess of the Netherlands.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:06 AM
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I think the name of W-A and Maxima's subforum isn't right at the moment.
It says Prince and Princess of Orange and their family.
But I think only W-A is Prince of Orange at the moment. Maxima isn't Princess of Orange.
Or am I wrong?
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cdm View Post
I think the name of W-A and Maxima's subforum isn't right at the moment.
It says Prince and Princess of Orange and their family.
But I think only W-A is Prince of Orange at the moment. Maxima isn't Princess of Orange.
Or am I wrong?
I think that you are correct. Maxima is not Princes of Orange. But it will all change very soon anyway.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm View Post
I think the name of W-A and Maxima's subforum isn't right at the moment.
It says Prince and Princess of Orange and their family.
But I think only W-A is Prince of Orange at the moment. Maxima isn't Princess of Orange.
Or am I wrong?
You are not wrong. Maxima is not Princess of Orange because the title of Prince/Princess of Orange is reserved only for the heir apparent to the Throne - and never their spouses. However, Maxima is Princess of Orange-Nassau; just before her marriage, she had been created Princess of the Netherlands and Princess of Orange-Nassau in her own right.

I think the "Prince and Princess of Orange" is simply used for convenience.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:10 AM
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I understand where people are coming from to favour the title Queen for Maxima, it helps that she very popular.

But in general, and for reasons of equality (the males remain princes anyway), I think the consort should remain a prince or princess and that the title King or Queen should be exclusive for the REIGNING monarch.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I understand where people are coming from to favour the title Queen for Maxima, it helps that she very popular.

But in general, and for reasons of equality (the males remain princes anyway), I think the consort should remain a prince or princess and that the title King or Queen should be exclusive for the REIGNING monarch.

I disagree Your Grace....As you know the wife always adopts the title of the husband,as a courtesy title,never a Queen Regnant.Whereas the Queen Regnant is that and the same rule applying to a husband would be too much of it all indeed,there would be a "new"ruling House..

No,a Kings spouse is a Queen,even for Camilla...as that is per chance where you come from..hah!..

No,one does have Kings and Queens,and that will remain to be the case as it always was and has been and will be...But what about the title of Duke...The world wouldn't notice of that was to be abolished would it...?
Just askin....grin...
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