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  #1  
Old 06-17-2015, 05:22 PM
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Role and Title for Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family

This thread has been created as the topic of the role and workload of princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill keeps popping up in several threads. This discussion is usually linked to the princess keeping her HRH and title and to the gender-neutral Swedish title system that enabled her children to be titled like the future children of her brother will be.

The posts below have been copied from various thread. We expect to move more old post to this thread in due time.

Note that far-fetched assumptions and speculations will be deleted. We do not want this thread to become a parallel reality with all kinds of negative assumptions stated as facts and truths.
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:56 AM
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Role and Title for Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family

Marrying a foreigner who has no titles and supposedly refused them, living more abroad than in her home country and not seemingly doing more than the high profile engagements and the World Childhood, retaining all her titles but what does she do for that in return?
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post

Marrying a foreigner who has no titles and supposedly refused them, living more abroad than in her home country and not seemingly doing more than the high profile engagements and the World Childhood, retaining all her titles but what does she do for that in return?



I would honestly praise Chris for giving up his titles... I think that he can't win and IMO had he accepted the titles he would be labelled by the press as someone who aspired entering the family... so I can only applaud him for proving them wrong.

People also seem to forget that Madeleine had two children in a row and that maternity leave is her right. She has been basically been in maternity leave for two years.

The press IMO is fed up because Madeleine doesn't like the attention and hasn't given sugary or silly interview pre-wedding just to keep everyone engaged. They are also upset because she seems to live her life as she pleases without being in the spotlight.

I only agree that Madeleine and Chris need to find a balance between private life in London and the represenation duty she is supposed to do. But honestly, don't want to draw comparison, but Childhood is a noble cause and since she isn't the heir I think that she has found her niche to be helpful.
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
I would honestly praise Chris for giving up his titles... I think that he can't win and IMO had he accepted the titles he would be labelled by the press as someone who aspired entering the family... so I can only applaud him for proving them wrong. .
By marrying Madeleine, he would automatically join the family. I don't think anyone would have criticized him for taking up a title like Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland and becoming a full-time royal because that is what most people expect a consort to an HRH to do. At least to me, it would seem natural.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
By marrying Madeleine, he would automatically join the family. I don't think anyone would have criticized him for taking up a title like Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland and becoming a full-time royal because that is what most people expect a consort to an HRH to do. At least to me, it would seem natural.

I was referring to the media. I think that the would make snarky commentd about him in this sense. And I bet that after CP's marriage the media would look at him and Madeleine as if they weren't needed anymore... I'm talking about media coverage, not common people. It lmost sound as if Chris is blamed for rejecting the title! I see that gesture as a very telling and sincere act. Other may differ.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
I was referring to the media. I think that the would make snarky commentd about him in this sense. And I bet that after CP's marriage the media would look at him and Madeleine as if they weren't needed anymore... I'm talking about media coverage, not common people. It lmost sound as if Chris is blamed for rejecting the title! I see that gesture as a very telling and sincere act. Other may differ.

very sincere, why? refuse the title, because I do not want to participate or act as a prince but remain free and work on my side, but for my children, titles, I take them, my wife keeps title.




it's just a choice.
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:18 AM
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very sincere, why? refuse the title, because I do not want to participate or act as a prince but remain free and work on my side, but for my children, titles, I take them, my wife keeps title.

it's just a choice.
Luckily we no longer live in a time, where a husband decided for his wife and children - but Madaleine chose for herself, what suits her - and she chose for her children es well, as they are still the spare - so I can understand the choices she made.

If the King didn't want them to have titels, he wouldn't have offered them.
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
Luckily we no longer live in a time, where a husband decided for his wife and children - but Madaleine chose for herself, what suits her - and she chose for her children es well, as they are still the spare - so I can understand the choices she made.

If the King didn't want them to have titels, he wouldn't have offered them.
Where does Madeleine prefer to live, Stockholm or London?
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:31 AM
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Where does Madeleine prefer to live, Stockholm or London?
How on earth should we know that?!
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2015, 11:48 AM
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Where does Madeleine prefer to live, Stockholm or London?
Your guess is as good as mine
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
By marrying Madeleine, he would automatically join the family. I don't think anyone would have criticized him for taking up a title like Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland and becoming a full-time royal because that is what most people expect a consort to an HRH to do. At least to me, it would seem natural.
I think that when 2 people marry they are joining the 2 families together, it isn't one joins and the other doesn't join regardless of the money, power or titles of the families involved. Chris is an outsider in a sense, he likes being his own person, he does not follow a crowd, group, or family. He can and has cooperated with the royal family by joining Princess Madeleine at many events and he still has maintained his own identity as to who he is. He likes working for himself, supporting himself and his family which says alot about his integrity and morals. He is not a free loader at all like some in royal families appear to be (not naming names). I give praise to this man, he should be respected for his own choices and decisions for they have hurt nobody yet many here and in the media criticize him for being his own person, that is the price he pays for being an individual in his own right and that is very sad. People should not expect him to jump up and down and do as they say just to please them, we all can't be followers or leaders, some like to be their own individual person. He chose not to have a royal title and not be an consort and that should not be expected of him to do so. I have more respect for him in his choices then if he had just cut ribbons and gone to events which can be a very boring way to live.
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Where does Madeleine prefer to live, Stockholm or London?
Maybe you should call and ask her? And why can't she have a choice on where to live as don't we all have that choice regardless of being a royal princess of not, she is not confined to one place.
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:32 PM
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SnowBirds, I agree with your assessments on both Chris' life choices and also thoughts on Madeleine living preference. I have a huge respect for Chris as he has shown he is his own man and does only what is good for his small new family. Plus, I am sure that the King and Queen have known and approve of all for years. I believe almost nothing that gutter press writes.
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
How on earth should we know that?!
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
Your guess is as good as mine
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Originally Posted by SnowBirds View Post
Maybe you should call and ask her? And why can't she have a choice on where to live as don't we all have that choice regardless of being a royal princess of not, she is not confined to one place.
These reactions prove exactly my point. It's not known whether Madeleine lives in London because she really wants to or whether she has 'just' followed her husband to where he feels he can provide best for them. So it's not known whether it's also her choice. Not saying she doesn't live there out of free will, just that that there are enough women who adjust to their husband's choices. Maybe Madeleine is one of them, maybe not.
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
SnowBirds, I agree with your assessments on both Chris' life choices and also thoughts on Madeleine living preference. I have a huge respect for Chris as he has shown he is his own man and does only what is good for his small new family. Plus, I am sure that the King and Queen have known and approve of all for years. I believe almost nothing that gutter press writes.
i also have great respect for chris. he seems hardworking and sincere. it is very loyal of him to have refused a title that would bring him a status and an income forever, because he does not think he would enjoy that life and prefers to keep his own path in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Where does Madeleine prefer to live, Stockholm or London?
well, given the fact that they decided to live in london right now, i'd say they have deep appreciation for london (and who wouldn't enjoy living in such a cool city!). madeleine and chris are young and wealthy so, as nice as stockholm may be, i doubt its city life can compare to london for them. i'd say for the moment, they probably both enjoy living in london more.... although stockholm is home for madeleine and i am sure she enjoys coming back to visit. besides, i assume it is easier for chris to live in london, not being able to speak swedish, whilst madeleine speaks both, so surely seeing her husband happy contributes to her happiness too.

does anyone know if chris has learnt / is still learning swedish?
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
These reactions prove exactly my point. It's not known whether Madeleine lives in London because she really wants to or whether she has 'just' followed her husband to where he feels he can provide best for them. So it's not known whether it's also her choice. Not saying she doesn't live there out of free will, just that that there are enough women who adjust to their husband's choices. Maybe Madeleine is one of them, maybe not.
Proven what exactly?
And goodness why does Princess Madeleine have to report to anyone here or elsewhere where she wants to live? It is nobody's business, just because she is a royal princess does not mean she can't have a private life and live where she wants. So if she lives where her husband works, what is the big deal here? Millions of women live where their husbands work for it is for the entire family not just the husband. I don't understand your objection to her and her choices, and I ask how do they effect you personally for by your comment it seems that you take this personally? I really get the impression that you don't like her, yet that is okay for we all can't like very body in this world.
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SnowBirds View Post
Proven what exactly?
And goodness why does Princess Madeleine have to report to anyone here or elsewhere where she wants to live? It is nobody's business, just because she is a royal princess does not mean she can't have a private life and live where she wants. So if she lives where her husband works, what is the big deal here? Millions of women live where their husbands work for it is for the entire family not just the husband. I don't understand your objection to her and her choices, and I ask how do they effect you personally for by your comment it seems that you take this personally? I really get the impression that you don't like her, yet that is okay for we all can't like very body in this world.
It is said here that she chose for herself thus made the independent decision to live somewhere (in London in this case), hence my question of knowing where she prefers to live. We don't know so it can't be said that it was her independent decision. For all we know she just accepted it because it's Christopher's preference. Nothing wrong with that, but it just goes on that there really isn't much known about them. And him especially. Logical, but perhaps there is room for more understanding. Unless they don't care, which IMO would be unwise.

I don't say that Madeleine has to report everything, but I do understand where the reactions concerning her and Christopher's life, work, dedication (for her then) and so on are coming from.

A litte more clarity on certain subjects, as has been mentioned before (since she is a HRH and he is a private citizen), would certainly help their image.
And perhaps that is why they have chosen to do the interview. It may help their cause, although the timing (and I don't accuse them of that) of the airing is really lousy.
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
I would honestly praise Chris for giving up his titles... I think that he can't win and IMO had he accepted the titles he would be labelled by the press as someone who aspired entering the family... so I can only applaud him for proving them wrong.

People also seem to forget that Madeleine had two children in a row and that maternity leave is her right. She has been basically been in maternity leave for two years.

The press IMO is fed up because Madeleine doesn't like the attention and hasn't given sugary or silly interview pre-wedding just to keep everyone engaged. They are also upset because she seems to live her life as she pleases without being in the spotlight.

I only agree that Madeleine and Chris need to find a balance between private life in London and the represenation duty she is supposed to do. But honestly, don't want to draw comparison, but Childhood is a noble cause and since she isn't the heir I think that she has found her niche to be helpful.
IMO if you are having a big-fat state funded wedding then you sit your butt down and give a silly, sugary interview. Same goes for televised christenings and royal titles for children. I am not necessarily saying that Madeleine (and Chris) had to do televised interviews for the christenings but it is not hard to believe that there will be people and media who will have expectations in regards to service to Sweden and being visible.

I don't think that Chris not accepting a title was a big deal in and of itself, I also don't think that it was a big deal that Madeleine kept her titles even though she lives outside of Sweden. I think that things got hinky when children entered the picture.
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:50 PM
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I think that when 2 people marry they are joining the 2 families together, it isn't one joins and the other doesn't join regardless of the money, power or titles of the families involved. Chris is an outsider in a sense, he likes being his own person, he does not follow a crowd, group, or family. He can and has cooperated with the royal family by joining Princess Madeleine at many events and he still has maintained his own identity as to who he is. He likes working for himself, supporting himself and his family which says alot about his integrity and morals. He is not a free loader at all like some in royal families appear to be (not naming names). I give praise to this man, he should be respected for his own choices and decisions for they have hurt nobody yet many here and in the media criticize him for being his own person, that is the price he pays for being an individual in his own right and that is very sad. People should not expect him to jump up and down and do as they say just to please them, we all can't be followers or leaders, some like to be their own individual person. He chose not to have a royal title and not be an consort and that should not be expected of him to do so. I have more respect for him in his choices then if he had just cut ribbons and gone to events which can be a very boring way to live.
Based on the old patrilineal concept of family, Madeleine would be the one who actually joined Christopher's family when they married, and not the other way around. However, that is not how it works with marriages into royal families these days as seen by the fact that Madeleine's children, like Estelle, Queen Beatrix's sons, or Queen Elizabeth II's children, do not use their father's last name and are instead considered members of the Royal House.

Second, I disagree with your assessment that a person who marries into a royal family and becomes a full-time royal is a "free loader". Royals are not celebrities or random "rich people" as some Americans often wrongly assume. Instead, they are public servants whose job is to support the monarch in his/her service to the country. A person like Maxima or Mary who gives up his/her private life to be in the service of a country where he/she was not even born should be praised, and not criticized. In fact, I respect that Chris chose to opt out of royal life, but I would also respect and praise him if he had chosen instead to serve the people of Sweden as Daniel and Sofia did.
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:14 PM
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It is said here that she chose for herself thus made the independent decision to live somewhere (in London in this case), hence my question of knowing where she prefers to live. We don't know so it can't be said that it was her independent decision. For all we know she just accepted it because it's Christopher's preference. Nothing wrong with that, but it just goes on that there really isn't much known about them. And him especially. Logical, but perhaps there is room for more understanding. Unless they don't care, which IMO would be unwise.

I don't say that Madeleine has to report everything, but I do understand where the reactions concerning her and Christopher's life, work, dedication (for her then) and so on are coming from.

A litte more clarity on certain subjects, as has been mentioned before (since she is a HRH and he is a private citizen), would certainly help their image.
And perhaps that is why they have chosen to do the interview. It may help their cause, although the timing (and I don't accuse them of that) of the airing is really lousy.
Does she need or must she come right out and spell in some form that "I Princess Madeleine chose to live here in London (Or anywhere for that matter) so that very busy body then knows her business? I would hope not, for my choices are mine as her's should be her's. What does it matter to anyone in this entire world where she lives? And why the attacks on her is amazing for we really don't personally know her , do we?
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